Video: What Fighting OV's Is Like

riverocean · September 2015

I think this video sums up what fighting OV's is like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaw2f4to8w

Seriously, overall I think the devs got the feeling of superhero "Battle Royale" right. A few tweaks and we're golden.

championshewolf · September 2015

I hope we can start seeing some content that feels like a super villain fight from now on.

vonqball · September 2015

Yeah, I always feel like I'm cast in the role of wasp tho... a minor annoyance that is easily swatted.

championshewolf · September 2015

vonqball wrote: »

Yeah, I always feel like I'm cast in the role of wasp tho... a minor annoyance that is easily swatted.

I think you might be misconstruing Wasp there. She's actually quite a bit stronger than Ultimate Avengers movie makes her out to be.

jonsills · September 2015

Two points of order:

1) That's not Mjolnir. Mjolnir is a hammer, not a battleaxe. It looks more like Stormbreaker, the weapon created for Beta Ray Bill, only with an exaggerated blade-side.

2) Picking up Mjolnir is not a matter of strength. Its enchantments ensure it cannot be wielded by anyone deemed "unworthy", no matter their strength. That's how Thor lost the hammer in the comics - his personality got adjusted somehow (I think it was related to that mess in Genosha, when someone tried to make Wanda turn everything into what they wanted and it worked about as well as it usually does), and he became unworthy. (He'll be back - Mjolnir's energies are slowly killing Jane Foster as she wields it, which means her tenure as Thor is limited by definition.)

championshewolf · September 2015

jonsills wrote: »

Two points of order:

1) That's not Mjolnir. Mjolnir is a hammer, not a battleaxe. It looks more like Stormbreaker, the weapon created for Beta Ray Bill, only with an exaggerated blade-side.

That's Ultimate Avengers, which Mjolnir looks like that. It's not the same as normal Mjolnir and in the Ultimate continuity Hulk was able to pick up Mjolnir once he was mad enough.

2) Picking up Mjolnir is not a matter of strength. Its enchantments ensure it cannot be wielded by anyone deemed "unworthy", no matter their strength. That's how Thor lost the hammer in the comics - his personality got adjusted somehow (I think it was related to that mess in Genosha, when someone tried to make Wanda turn everything into what they wanted and it worked about as well as it usually does), and he became unworthy. (He'll be back - Mjolnir's energies are slowly killing Jane Foster as she wields it, which means her tenure as Thor is limited by definition.)

Again, this is Ultimate Avengers, which is not the same as the main Marvel line. It is a different continuity that was suppose to be more "edgey" version of Marvel characters. And in the Ultimate line, Hulk could pick up the hammer.

vonqball · September 2015

championshewolf said:

vonqball wrote: »

Yeah, I always feel like I'm cast in the role of wasp tho... a minor annoyance that is easily swatted.

I think you might be misconstruing Wasp there. She's actually quite a bit stronger than Ultimate Avengers movie makes her out to be.

Yeah, I'm just referring to her role in the vid clip... not disparaging the character.

zemmax · September 2015

Wow... The animation is just terrible. OMG.

championshewolf · September 2015

zemmax wrote: »

Wow... The animation is just terrible. OMG.

Yea, it was made back in 2006, by Lionsgate. I liked their Doctor Strange though it was edited together weirdly, but I can't say most of the Lionsgate animation line up was all that stellar. But again, it was the Ultimates universe which is different from the regular universe.

beezeeze · September 2015

Ew Ultimate Marvel was just the worst.

The Dr Strange movie was ok I guess...I didn't really like how they treated magic basically like mutant powers and fought by summoning swords and what not rather than slinging spells, but other than that is was ok...

serialkillerwhal · September 2015

Eh, the movie was pretty good on the action.

Not sure why Captain america can take more hits than iron man, but I digress.

championshewolf · September 2015

serialkillerwhal wrote: »

Eh, the movie was pretty good on the action.

Not sure why Captain america can take more hits than iron man, but I digress.

Because Cap is a super soldier with an enhanced serum, Iron Man is a man in a suit.

hasukurobi · September 2015

Eeh... That is too slow paced. OV fighting is more like fighting Galactus, The Hulk gone super hardcore, and Dr. Doom all at the same time with about a hundred B-Listers that just keep getting flattened again and again and a few of us who just stand there like a brick wall with block toggled on.

kemmicals · September 2015

I'd rather be fighting Hulk after he somehow becomes Dio's Stand.

Unknown · September 2015

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championshewolf · September 2015

gradii wrote: »

They still do too much damage. I'm sick of non tank characters being screwed over by the "defeated" debuff.

Remove the defeated debuff and it might be playable.

Uh, the defeated debuff is to prevent you from being farmed. *scratches head* Because when you're defeated you don't give tokens with that debuff.

hasukurobi · September 2015

gradii said:
They still do too much damage. I'm sick of non tank characters being screwed over by the "defeated" debuff.

Remove the defeated debuff and it might be playable.

I am likewise confused. There is nothing wrong with the defeated debuff unless you are saying that because as a SV you can only kill people who are not built like tanks and thus it is harder to get Villain Marks because the squishies are so often protected under the defeated debuff?

Actually I find that they do not really do too much damage it is that they are forced to group together to stand a chance against tanks and as a group of Villains they can be pretty much unapproachable.

championshewolf · September 2015

hasukurobi wrote: »

They still do too much damage. I'm sick of non tank characters being screwed over by the "defeated" debuff.

Remove the defeated debuff and it might be playable.

I am likewise confused. There is nothing wrong with the defeated debuff unless you are saying that because as a SV you can only kill people who are not built like tanks and thus it is harder to get Villain Marks because the squishies are so often protected under the defeated debuff?

Actually I find that they do not really do too much damage it is that they are forced to group together to stand a chance against tanks and as a group of Villains they can be pretty much unapproachable.

You can kill tanks it just takes building up certain effects instead of just spamming them as soon as they are ready.

vonqball · September 2015

Need to kill the supports first. That is one big step towards killing a really tanky tank... ofc the support will probably respawn before you have a chance to finish off the tank. Sadly, you're better off ignoring the tanks and focusing on softer targets.

spinnytop · September 2015

Yes. OVs need to group together to get kills, because the top end of the power spectrum for players is still too high. This situation is illustrating why there needs to be yet more nerfs to bring the top end of player power down, and a few buffs to bring up the bottom end. It seems like this event was produced for the comfortable middle that they're hoping to establish eventually.

championshewolf · September 2015

Well that's a good point. The OVs were buffed up ridiculously because they couldn't compete with the power curve of players. And even now on Live the OVs are having a hard time competing with the power curve of players, and that's ignoring the exploits.

This constant buff everything nerf nothing is what caused this problem and the situation with Villain Onslaught is the pinnacle of why adding more power to the game is bad. I think OVs should have had more sensible damage but they can't, not while there are Offensively built characters that have the resistance of a TANK, the healing of a support and the damage to go with it. All just one single person. And you get them in a team, the OVs don't even have a chance. And before people say otherwise, no these super tanks are not rare.

Seriously, non-tanks should not be able to get over 40% damage mitigation without the aid of team buffs from other players, not just themselves. This is an exacerbated problem and it is only getting worse. No solo player should be able to be able do everything and not have to worry about it. This is an MMO first, if you want to feel like a god in a game there are other single player games that are based around super hero stuff. And if you want balance, then it's time the big boy breeches get put on because for this to be fixed then nerfs have to come down and not just on villain onslaught but ALL overperforming powers, stats and abilities.

People should have been teaming up for this, normally, not absently like they are doing now to compete in what should be the equivalent of a world event. Instead just a bunch of super tanks and a few squishies doing some damage a couple of others just doing one hit and standing their to collect tokens and between the fast movement and cheap tactics from both sides it's just losing the fun it should have because it's being unfair to both sides of the equation just because one side has to be built around the fact that, like it or not, a lot of people in this game are just built on the extreme min max end of the scale. And it doesn't require rank 9 mods to do it.

xrazamax · September 2015

Never met a tank I could not kill with medusa. Grond on the other hand....

but that is understandable. He can take out more squishy heroes rather quickly so I'm fine with him having a harder time versus tanks.

championshewolf · September 2015

xrazamax wrote: »

Never met a tank I could not kill with medusa. Grond on the other hand....

but that is understandable. He can take out more squishy heroes rather quickly so I'm fine with him having a harder time versus tanks.

There is only a couple of tanks I have yet to kill, but when you spend large portion of time, 3+ minutes just focused on that one person, then there is a problem. The device only has a 15 minute duration once activated, and OVs only gain tokens by defeating heroes. So do you waste 3 minutes on those tanks, or do you go after other targets? And then what do you do when the targets are nothing but super tanks as they are becoming more and more of now?

hasukurobi · September 2015

xrazamax said:
Never met a tank I could not kill with medusa. Grond on the other hand....

but that is understandable. He can take out more squishy heroes rather quickly so I'm fine with him having a harder time versus tanks.

I will have to torment you sometime then. I have survived even mobs of SV's with my tanks without an issue. Like Shewolf said these builds are not rare they are the norm. If you did ever manage to kill me I would have since wasted a good 20 minutes or so of your time to get that kill which really sucks and is SO not worth it.

I have had so many of these types around me before that I have just decided to ignore them and head off to go kill UNTIL Agents. At least I can one shot them and get points.

zer0x0ne · September 2015

If you people are having trouble killing folks as villains, you're doing it wrong.

championshewolf · September 2015

zer0x0ne wrote: »

If you people are having trouble killing folks as villains, you're doing it wrong.

Which means you haven't run into the group of super tanks while playing yet. Lucky you. Yea, given time you can kill anyone, well almost anyone some builds are just unkillable no matter what you do, but if you spend 3 minutes to get to that point just to kill one person, then you've already wasted a 5th of your villain time doing it.

zer0x0ne · September 2015

championshewolf said:
Which means you haven't run into the group of super tanks while playing yet. Lucky you. Yea, given time you can kill anyone, well almost anyone some builds are just unkillable no matter what you do, but if you spend 3 minutes to get to that point just to kill one person, then you've already wasted a 5th of your villain time doing it.

Target someone else. And if there's no one else to target, you're playing at the wrong times, or in the wrong place. Getting kills is not that difficult and most of the people you're calling "super tanks" are just standing there blocking the whole time.

championshewolf · September 2015

zer0x0ne wrote: »

Target someone else. And if there's no one else to target, you're playing at the wrong times, or in the wrong place. Getting kills is not that difficult and most of the people you're calling "super tanks" are just standing there blocking the whole time.

This is really not the answer either. It's really just the type of answer people use that want to ignore the problem. Sorry, but it's the truth. Things are too far out of balance. It's unfair to people who aren't as geared or new players, and it's unfair to people that enjoy PvP because there is no real strategy involved, just a war of attrition. It doesn't encourage grouping, it just encourages people to mob the OVs, and sorry, that's not good game design. And that's ignoring the fact that changing instances or waiting for the right times is not always applicable for everyone.

zer0x0ne · September 2015

championshewolf said:
This is really not the answer either. It's really just the type of answer people use that want to ignore the problem. Sorry, but it's the truth. Things are too far out of balance. It's unfair to people who aren't as geared or new players, and it's unfair to people that enjoy PvP because there is no real strategy involved, just a war of attrition. It doesn't encourage grouping, it just encourages people to mob the OVs, and sorry, that's not good game design. And that's ignoring the fact that changing instances or waiting for the right times is not always applicable for everyone.

You're joking, right? Things aren't out of balance. If you expect people who haven't earned gear, or have just started to play the game to be as good as people who've put the time and effort in, you have no business playing an MMO. And that's not even getting into the fact that "not as geared" is barely even a thing in this game, since all you have to do is grind for a ridiculously short amount of time and you can have more than decent gear.

What's going on is that people are making excuses for why people have better builds than they do, instead of learning to make better builds. The reality is, the people you guys are crying to be nerfed are always going to be better than you and that's been the case since the game was brand new.

As for how this applies to Onslaught - If you're not willing to play smarter and expect the game to be tailored to your playing habits, you're going to have difficulty earning tokens. Switching instances, or map positions, or waiting 5 - 10 minutes until you start seeing people gather to play requires minimum effort. Why is it you can't manage to do these things? If it hurts when you keep banging your head against that brick wall, stop doing it, don't complain that the wall needs to be made out of softer material.

spinnytop · September 2015

zer0x0ne said:
And if there's no one else to target, you're playing at the wrong times, or in the wrong place.

In a persistent world game there is not allowed to be a wrong time.
In an open world game there is not allowed to be a wrong place.

If either of these wrongs exist, it indicates problems that need to be fixed.

zer0x0ne said:
You're joking, right? Things aren't out of balance.

I think Silver hit the nail on the head when she implied that you were trying to ignore the problem.

zer0x0ne · September 2015

spinnytop said:

zer0x0ne said:
And if there's no one else to target, you're playing at the wrong times, or in the wrong place.

In a persistent world game there is not allowed to be a wrong time.
In an open world game there is not allowed to be a wrong place.

If either of these wrongs exist, it indicates problems that need to be fixed.
zer0x0ne said:
You're joking, right? Things aren't out of balance.

I think Silver hit the nail on the head when she implied that you were trying to ignore the problem.

You're living in a fantasy world if you think that in a persistent environment video game there aren't going to be times when there is a lull in the player population and you're living even deeper in that fantasy world if you think that you're going to be able to have equal success against every player every time. If there's any "problem" that needs to be fixed, it's low player population, which I think we can all acknowledge is a growing issue for Champions.

Now, if you want reality, I've been playing Onslaught at least once daily since the feature came out and I currently have exactly 5,000 Villain tokens and that'safter spending 3,000 to get all the action figures. There's a daily mission that gives you 250 a day and you further supplement that by killing players for 5 tokens each. It's not that difficult. And even if you can't play every day, or aren't inclined to, so what? MMO rewards are meant to be earned, not just handed to you, so if it takes you a while to get what you want, that's as it's meant to be.

If you're having difficulty keeping up with other players in this, the easiest of MMOs this side of Club Penguin, then I assure you, the problem is not the other players. If you want to talk about the content, that's another story, but that would require getting even further off topic than we already have.

spinnytop · September 2015

zer0x0ne said:
You're living in a fantasy world if you think that in a persistent environment video game there aren't going to be times when there is a lull in the player population

And now I see you're ignoring the context of my statements.

What does a "lull in the player population" have to do with there only being super tanks for you to fight? Why does "less players being online" mean there are only super tanks on? Not getting the connection here.

If, as you say, the only problem is a lower player population, then how does increasing player population solve the problem of unkillable players? Does a higher population somehow make super tank builds less tanky? Not getting the connection here.

zer0x0ne said:

If you're having difficulty keeping up with other players in this, the easiest of MMOs this side of Club Penguin, then I assure you, the problem is not the other players.

The other players seem to be having trouble with this as well though. So.... yeah. How about that?

sterga · September 2015

So, it's OK for Villains to be giant bags of HP that require many deaths as a hero to beat, if they don't escape, but having some heroes that are tanky enough not to be constantly one-shotted is not? Especially when villains tend to grossly outnumber heroes or end up doing so often?

When two + villains actually work together, they decimate everyone.

Unknown · September 2015

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zer0x0ne · September 2015

spinnytop said:
And now I see you're ignoring the context of my statements.

What does a "lull in the player population" have to do with there only being super tanks for you to fight? Why does "less players being online" mean there are only super tanks on? Not getting the connection here.

If, as you say, the only problem is a lower player population, then how does increasing player population solve the problem of unkillable players? Does a higher population somehow make super tank builds less tanky? Not getting the connection here.

Because I countered what you posted, I must have ignored the context of your statements. Right... I'm not going to play that game with you. We're both arguing in the same context; you know full well what I'm talking about.

Firstly, there aren't only "super tanks" to fight, but if you ARE only seeing these tanks when you're playing, then you're either not switching to non-tank targets, or you're playing Onslaught when there aren't many people gathered. Generally, if you wait a short amount of time, especially in instance 1, there will be plenty of people to compete against. If the game population were higher though, that would minimize the lulls in activity and you would likely have less to complain about, unless you were purposely ignoring a possible solution. I can't break this down any further for you. If you're only here to complain about how people are able to make builds that you don't know how to play against, you're in the wrong thread and therefore off-topic.

On a side note, these people you're having difficulty damaging are usually difficult to damage because they've sacrificed something in order to be that difficult to kill. Usually that sacrifice is the ability to DO any actual damage, which means they're wasting just about as much of their time as you are yours.

spinnytop said:
The other players seem to be having trouble with this as well though. So.... yeah. How about that?

"The other players". Which other players? All the other players? How did you gather this consensus, exactly?

bluegrassbeast said:
Those dying heroes still get tokens.

Not so much for the OVs.

I think that's the source of the contradiction in expectations?

Honestly, whenever I OV, I play like an Assassinin LoL.. if it has a shield over its head, I ain't going to be targeting it.

Basically. If you want easy kills, or even "normal" kills, don't target the people who are, by definition and purpose, not easy to kill.

spinnytop · September 2015

sterga said:
So, it's OK for Villains to be giant bags of HP that require many deaths as a hero to beat, if they don't escape, but having some heroes that are tanky enough not to be constantly one-shotted is not? Especially when villains tend to grossly outnumber heroes or end up doing so often?

When two + villains actually work together, they decimate everyone.

There's a hug gap between "not being constantly one shot" and what's actually being talked about here "heros that will not die for the entire duration of your OV device".

There's also a huge gap regarding what is lost by each player in the situation. The OV loses their rewards, the unkillable player loses nothing. That's about as big a disparity as you can get.

The big problem, that we're already seeing in action, is that eventually people will only show up with super tank builds, at which point villains will stop showing up all together. At that point you may gather everyone around and preach about your right to play unkillable characters, because everyone will have plenty of time to listen.

Also no, Two + villains do not decimate everyone, even when working together.

spinnytop · September 2015

zer0x0ne said:

Because I countered what you posted, I must have ignored the context of your statements. Right... I'm not going to play that game with you. We're both arguing in the same context; you know full well what I'm talking about.

You didn't counter what I posted actually. That's kind of what I was pointing out.

zer0x0ne said:

Firstly, there aren't only "super tanks" to fight, but if you ARE only seeing these tanks when you're playing, then you're either not switching to non-tank targets, or you're playing Onslaught when there aren't many people gathered. Generally, if you wait a short amount of time, especially in instance 1, there will be plenty of people to compete against. If the game population were higher though, that would minimize the lulls in activity and you would likely have less to complain about, unless you were purposely ignoring a possible solution. I can't break this down any further for you. If you're only here to complain about how people are able to make builds that you don't know how to play against, you're in the wrong thread and therefore off-topic.

You still haven't explained how a higher population minimizes the number of super tanks. I'm not ignoring a possible solution, I'm just not seeing the solution.

zer0x0ne said:

On a side note, these people you're having difficulty damaging are usually difficult to damage because they've sacrificed something in order to be that difficult to kill. Usually that sacrifice is the ability to DO any actual damage, which means they're wasting just about as much of their time as you are yours.

It's funny... on the one hand you pretend that you're well versed in the game and know about builds and how to play against them.... but then you make the statement that to make super tanky builds you have to sacrifice damage dealing ability which shows you don't actually know how the game works. It's easy to believe that the game is balanced when you ignore all the things that make it unbalanced I guess.

hasukurobi · September 2015

spinnytop said:

Also no, Two + villains do not decimate everyone, even when working together.

This is very true. As I have stated here and I will gladly back up in whatever fashion you like including Youtubing it if I really must: I can easily stand among three SV's and never once die and get tokens the entire time on my toughest characters. With some vehicles I can easily move out of range any time things get too hot and then move back in.

However Decimate is not the word to use here Spinnytop. Decimate literally means to reduce by one tenth. Sorry, I just hate people replacing devastate with decimate.

The overall big problem is that SV's should gain tokens for fighting heroes just as heroes gain for fighting them. Then the super tank issue would not be an issue anymore. Maybe you could gain MORE tokens for killing a hero but always get some for fighting them. They even have a built in counter that shows how many people you are fighting and I think it would make sense if you got more based on this number. So if you are fighting a huge crowd of heroes then you get a lot more tokens per every so many minutes of engagement then if you are fighting just a handful. This would help balance out how fast you are going to die to the heroes.

championshewolf · September 2015

hasukurobi wrote: »

Also no, Two + villains do not decimate everyone, even when working together.

This is very true. As I have stated here and I will gladly back up in whatever fashion you like including Youtubing it if I really must: I can easily stand among three SV's and never once die and get tokens the entire time on my toughest characters. With some vehicles I can easily move out of range any time things get too hot and then move back in.

However Decimate is not the word to use here Spinnytop. Decimate literally means to reduce by one tenth. Sorry, I just hate people replacing devastate with decimate.

The overall big problem is that SV's should gain tokens for fighting heroes just as heroes gain for fighting them. Then the super tank issue would not be an issue anymore. Maybe you could gain MORE tokens for killing a hero but always get some for fighting them. They even have a built in counter that shows how many people you are fighting and I think it would make sense if you got more based on this number. So if you are fighting a huge crowd of heroes then you get a lot more tokens per every so many minutes of engagement then if you are fighting just a handful. This would help balance out how fast you are going to die to the heroes.

Then the problem there is you run into nothing but super villains then hoping to leach. It remains un-fun at that point and all you will see is just groups of people farming by being super villains and engaging. This is already a bit of a problem with heroic tokens and why I see they haven't given them huge rewards, because it requires no one to do any actual fighting to earn them.

hasukurobi · September 2015

zer0x0ne said:

On a side note, these people you're having difficulty damaging are usually difficult to damage because they've sacrificed something in order to be that difficult to kill. Usually that sacrifice is the ability to DO any actual damage, which means they're wasting just about as much of their time as you are yours.

This is wrong on many levels actually... First, it is FULLY possible to make tanks capable of surviving the SV's indefinitely and still deal a lot of damage. In fact, I would say it is practically EASY. Which is why there are so many of them. Just because you do not know how to make such a build does not mean the rest of us are incapable of doing it. From what I have seen I would say you are actually in the minority in this regard.

Also even if they were a tank that sacrificed good damage for being a proper tank (taking challenges and perhaps heaven forbid actually using the Tank Role... o.0 ) then they are still NOT really wasting their time attacking you. They get tokens for having the tag on them and being anywhere remotely nearby. In the meantime even a tiny amount of damage dealt to you can be helpful. If a lot of ants start biting you then you will be devoured eventually. If they use their abilities to lower your damage output and prevent you from killing anyone else then it can be even easier for the group to kill you.

So yeah... That statement of yours pretty much falls completely flat.

championshewolf · September 2015

hasukurobi wrote: »

On a side note, these people you're having difficulty damaging are usually difficult to damage because they've sacrificed something in order to be that difficult to kill. Usually that sacrifice is the ability to DO any actual damage, which means they're wasting just about as much of their time as you are yours.

This is wrong on many levels actually... First, it is FULLY possible to make tanks capable of surviving the SV's indefinitely and still deal a lot of damage. In fact, I would say it is practically EASY. Which is why there are so many of them. Just because you do not know how to make such a build does not mean the rest of us are incapable of doing it. From what I have seen I would say you are actually in the minority in this regard.

Also even if they were a tank that sacrificed good damage for being a proper tank (taking challenges and perhaps heaven forbid actually using the Tank Role... o.0 ) then they are still NOT really wasting their time attacking you. They get tokens for having the tag on them and being anywhere remotely nearby. In the meantime even a tiny amount of damage dealt to you can be helpful. If a lot of ants start biting you then you will be devoured eventually. If they use their abilities to lower your damage output and prevent you from killing anyone else then it can be even easier for the group to kill you.

So yeah... That statement of yours pretty much falls completely flat.

^ Pretty much this. Before the CDR nerf I know my DPS was well up around 3200 I believe. After the CDR nerf I think I might have lost about maybe 10% DPS because I can't use UR as much anymore, (big whoop) but I know I am holding at least 2800 to 3000 DPS.

zer0x0ne · September 2015

Okay, Spinnytop, I'm not even going to bother addressing you anymore, because all you seem to be capable of is circular arguing and ain't nobody got time for that. Nice epeen at the end there, though.

hasukurobi said:

zer0x0ne said:

On a side note, these people you're having difficulty damaging are usually difficult to damage because they've sacrificed something in order to be that difficult to kill. Usually that sacrifice is the ability to DO any actual damage, which means they're wasting just about as much of their time as you are yours.
This is wrong on many levels actually... First, it is FULLY possible to make tanks capable of surviving the SV's indefinitely and still deal a lot of damage. In fact, I would say it is practically EASY. Which is why there are so many of them. Just because you do not know how to make such a build does not mean the rest of us are incapable of doing it. From what I have seen I would say you are actually in the minority in this regard.

Also even if they were a tank that sacrificed good damage for being a proper tank (taking challenges and perhaps heaven forbid actually using the Tank Role... o.0 ) then they are still NOT really wasting their time attacking you. They get tokens for having the tag on them and being anywhere remotely nearby. In the meantime even a tiny amount of damage dealt to you can be helpful. If a lot of ants start biting you then you will be devoured eventually. If they use their abilities to lower your damage output and prevent you from killing anyone else then it can be even easier for the group to kill you.

So yeah... That statement of yours pretty much falls completely flat.

As for the first part of your post: I don't think you know what you're talking about. I can pretty much guarantee you that what you're thinking of as a lot of damage is not, in fact, a lot of damage, actually. You certainly don't know what you're talking about when it comes to me and how I play the game, you've made that much obvious - I may not be a Vixy, or a Kaiserin, but I do have a decent idea of what I'm talking about. And how many of these "super damage super tanks" do you think are running around the game exactly? How many have you parsed? I'd love to see the research you're basing this on.

Now, as for your second paragraph, if you're only focusing your energy on one villain during a fight, and there are more available, you're flat out wasting your time. You should be attacking as many villains at once as you're capable of, to maximize token gain. If you want to say that there are an abundance of tank characters in the game capable of frustrating an Onslaught villain while simultaneously attacking all the others (not including standing there and blocking with a shield that deals back small amounts of damage), then I'm going to have to insist you show your work on that one.

"In the meantime", no, every little bit of damage is NOT in fact helpful. Minimal dps against a villain character with 5.5 million HP might as well be no DPS, honestly. You're also exaggerating potential contribution, because they're not preventing everyone else from getting killed. They're barely minimizing the odds. A villain doesn't HAVE to attack that one hero, they can switch targets to someone who doesn't fancy themselves indestructible, kill and move on. With area attacks, they even could keep their focus on someone who's trying to tank, if they really wanted to, and still get plenty of kills. Essentially, straight "tanking" an Onslaught villain is for ego and epeen only; dps is more important to your end goal of killing them before the timer on their device expires.

championshewolf said:

^ Pretty much this. Before the CDR nerf I know my DPS was well up around 3200 I believe. After the CDR nerf I think I might have lost about maybe 10% DPS because I can't use UR as much anymore, (big whoop) but I know I am holding at least 2800 to 3000 DPS.

lol No, Silverspar, just... no.

I'm not trying to be insulting, but I know for a fact that you're exaggerating.

jennymachx · September 2015

Err, I've been up against 3 OV Medusa's at once, and have seen how the more tanky hero players around them get faceplanted with relative ease. If there's this super duper tank build that is able to handle multiple OV Medusa AoE's fired off in succession, or even in unison, I'd like to know what it is.

biffsmackwell · September 2015

zer0x0ne wrote: »

What's going on is that people are making excuses for why people have better builds than they do, instead of learning to make better builds. The reality is, the people you guys are crying to be nerfed are always going to be better than you and that's been the case since the game was brand new.

I find this kind of ironic because the person you're saying it to has been referred to as one of the best tanks in the game.

When you have that kind of power with your gear and build, and you think the power levels need to be toned down, it's not exactly crying, it's just realizing that there's a problem with character power.

zer0x0ne · September 2015

biffsmackwell said:
I find this kind of ironic because the person you're saying it to has been referred to as one of the best tanks in the game.

When you have that kind of power with your gear and build, and you think the power levels need to be toned down, it's not exactly crying, it's just realizing that there's a problem with character power.

I know we travel in different circles, Smackwell, but in 6 years, I haven't ever heard this person referred to as such.

biffsmackwell · September 2015

It's cool if you're not willing to take my word for it, but note that I'm not trying to pull some buddy backup here. We don't really get along.

zer0x0ne · September 2015

biffsmackwell said:
It's cool if you're not willing to take my word for it, but note that I'm not trying to pull some buddy backup here. We don't really get along.

I'm aware of this. If it's all the same though, I'm not going to say anything else about the topic here on the boards.

jennymachx · September 2015

I'm no build guru but I know it's possible to pull off a pretty durable tank build with solid DPS output using an offensive passive like WotW and stating the holy heck out of CON when going with Juggernaut STR spec for lots of defense, then perhaps stating up crit stats and whatever rest to maximize offense and damage. The sacrifices you make if you would take a defensive passive instead for a tank build wouldn't really apply. A build like that would definitely have no problem against a single Medusa or Grond. 3 or more of them though? I really doubt it.

championshewolf · September 2015

zer0x0ne wrote: »

I'm not trying to be insulting, but I know for a fact that you're exaggerating.

Umm, no I am actually not exaggerating. Nice try though.

zer0x0ne wrote: »

I know we travel in different circles, Smackwell, but in 6 years, I haven't ever heard this person referred to as such.

I would be curious of your circles because I know I've never heard of you.

championshewolf · September 2015

jennymachx wrote: »

Err, I've been up against 3 OV Medusa's at once, and have seen how the more tanky hero players around them get faceplanted with relative ease. If there's this super duper tank build that is able to handle multiple OV Medusa AoE's fired off in succession, or even in unison, I'd like to know what it is.

I've been quite capable of just standing there and holding block and being pretty much indestructible. I had 4 Grond's, 1 Medusa and 1 Gravitar on me at one point. My health never dropped below 10k due to my healing, Ebon Voids healing, and so forth. Heaven forbid someone actually heals me as well. I am not as defensible though I can be caught off guard (usually because I am distracted or just not really caring at the moment) but it's only been from one of Grond's big ground line attacks I didn't block. Medusa's I generally have time, even if I didn't block their long hold to just hit Masterful dodge and can get out of the hold after they've burnt up all their heavy hits. Gravtiar, I've just never felt she was a threat and can think of only one time I even remember that I think I was killed by her because I didn't block one of her long chain dots or it could have been a combination of Grond's berserker smash with her dots. I dunno.

Hell, a lot of people tell me they use me to build up their Medusa stacks so they can unlock their powers more than even trying to kill me.

spinnytop · September 2015

zer0x0ne said:
I'm not going to say anything else about the topic here on the boards.

Yeah, that'd probably be for the best. Me and Silver don't get along ever, but I can tell you that she's active proof that you can make a stupidly tough tank that still dishes out high damage, and she's not doing anything that anybody else can't easily do.

Whatever "circles" your hang out in don't seem to have a lot of access to common build knowledge. You also still never explained how more players being on means less super tank builds, and I guess you never will.

Video: What Fighting OV's Is Like

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