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Does Anyone Use Aspect of the Machine?
arimikami
Posts: 475 Arc User
Just curious. I just finally got around to leveling an awakened AT and, a lot about it seems pretty subpar. I can't help thinking that, with a few tweaks, AotM would actually be a really good power for toons that are a mix of melee and ranged damage but, as is, it just seems like no one would even want to bother so, I'm asking, does anyone even use it?
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At 3 stacks Machine only gives ~14% less damage than 8 stacks of another form ( but the difference is, both types of damage are buffed, so it's a 14% loss to one type, but a sizable gain to the other ). At 5 stacks Machine is pretty much even with the other forms( and when I'm dealing with groups of NPCs, where I actually care about having high damage, I'll have 5 stacks ). So that's the price you pay for having equal damage bonus to both melee and ranged ( It's also kind of neat how I have Strength buffing both melee and ranged equally ).
The character doesn't need the energy gain from a form, so it works out fairly nicely. My only issue with the build is actually not even related to Aspect of the Machine - the issue being that there really isn't much of a reason to have a mixed melee/range character (other than theme).
If you want a character that has equally buffed melee and ranged attacks, Aspect of the Machine is the way to go. If you don't care about that, then Aspect of the Machine doesn't offer you anything. It's certainly not the "horrible form" that everyone tried to paint it as, but it definitely is designed in such a way that only those people who want it specifically to have a melee/ranged mix character will want it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It works great if you have a mixed melee/ranged build. And it's fine in most PvE encounters. You'll have not trouble keeping stacks.
In boss encounters.. if you don't have it ranked it wont do you much good.
I have a handful of characters that carry 2 forms. Several more that carry 2 passives. Primarily for the above reasons.
The same can be said for carrying alternate Secondary Offense/Defense/Utility items, since I have some "On Kills" and Perception items that are handy to swap out.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
I do have a few mixed ranged/melee builds, but they usually have Primal Majesty passive and take IDF as a form . . . which also requires ranking up, and does not help with energy.
I dunno, AotM isn't the worst thing ever; it's just kinda lousy. In some very particular builds, it's useful for PvE.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Designer intent achieved. s( o w o )z
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I have a toon that I absolutely adore that mixes ranged and melee. It KILLS.
But, I'm using concentration, which means its a lot stronger in ranged attacks than in melee attacks.
Aspect would be perfect for this toon, except that in a team, or a boss fight, Aspect is useless because you can't count on it. Every other form has an easier trigger condition.
They need to add some trigger conditions to Aspect aside from the 'killing shot' thing. Some ideas:
Aspect of the Machine gives you a stack of goodies if you get the FIRST attack on a bad guy, as well as the last.
Aspect of the Machine gives you a stack of goodies if you did over half the total hits on a mob when it drops.
Aspect of the Machine gives you a stack of goodies if you do not change targets in twelve seconds.
Those three things would get it firing pretty solidly, and more importantly, would let you play and/or build to make it work for you.
It's actually not useless if you rank it up. Remember, ~14% damage loss to one attack type, but other attack type isn't all smooey. Also, the neatness of having Ego or Strength boost both attack types.
If your response is "I don't care about having melee and ranged attacks having equal damage bonuses" then congrats, you don't ever need to use a form designed for that specific function
If your response is "I think a form that gives equal bonus to melee and ranged attacks should also be as useful to each individual attack type as other forms are to their one specific attack type" then I am going to poke you on your nose tip u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It also stacks Frenzy, which... OK, I can see why they might make it killing blows thematically. I just think maybe making it a chance to stack with clicks/lower chance on maintain ticks would make a little more sense to me. Though that means nothing when you can't keep stacks, so keeping stacks might be a little more important.
I don't think it's too hard to get the kills, since the AT has some pretty strong powers, Rocket Fist and Chest Beam, unless your teammates are of that kind that annihilate mobs in fractions of seconds. If you time your attacks right, you can get some kills even in group, to stack it up. Anyways, I ranked it to level 3 and don't worry too much about it. The real downside is when you're fighting bosses. Besides that, the ranks vanish too quickly and sometimes it's a bit hard too keep them.
If it had another way of stacking, like mauk2 suggestions for example, then it could be great.
DoomedLuke at Primus Data Base
And at DeviantArt
Think I'm due for a nose poke then, because.... ranged is fundamentally superior to melee! Who cares if something that boosts ranged also boost melee equally?
*pokes your nose*
It's all about balance. Greater versatility requires lower power. The fact that versatility is only useful in the form of adding healing to any build in this game is it's own issue. You don't say "Well this part of my game is poorly balanced, so I might as well just let everything be poorly balanced". That's like saying that throwing garbage on the floor is a good idea because the room is already a mess.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
And there is the core of the complaint.
Its penalty of not conveniently stacking only punishes you for a concept, not any actual advantage.
I believer I SAID it wasn't useless, just after saying it kind of SEEMED useless, and then explained why.
And of course I ranked it up, what am I a moron? :biggrin:
SHUUUUT IT! :mad:
That is an issue that cannot be solved through the Aspect of the Machine form. The downsides of the form do not punish you, they make sure that the form is balanced according to it's intent; and also that it doesn't became the obvious best form, rendering all other damage forms irrelevant in the process.
This issue could only be solved by altering some game content to make having both types of attacks relevant. Once there was some tactical benefit to having both types of attacks, the problem would be solved.
Also, your perceived punishment is easily dodged; just don't use the form. Since there is no benefit to having both types of attacks with the same amount of damage bonus, you can just use one of the other damage forms and suffer no tactical loss, right?
It's one or the other... either there's no reason to care about having equal melee and range attacks and hence you don't care about Machine... or there is a reason, and hence you acknowledge why the form needs to be balanced as it is.
So then you agree that it isn't useless, and is a good form. I accept this.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
How could the form be too strong if switching positions is not useful? I say there should be far fewer disadvantages around position switching in general, forms included.
Concept is the main reason AOTM should be competitive.
The contradiction is people who say "There is no benefit to having equal melee and ranged bonus... but I still care about using AOTM".
Is your theme completely ruined because your numbers are a bit different?
Ranged/melee mixed builds don't need to be relevant for the threat of a form that does everything all the other damage forms do at the same time replacing those other forms as relevant to exist.
We have a lot of cases of powers that are too good making other powers clearly worse choices. Does the fact that the game is easy enough that your power choices don't matter make that any less true?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Not mah nose!
I pretty much entirely disagree. There is no balance issue to be unbalanced. The ranged melee segregation was an arbitrary decision made by the game designers, and has nothing to do with balance. Ranged is more versatile, so a ranged/melee hybrid form doesn't really add any versatility.. as far as effectiveness goes anyway. Theme-wise, yeah versatility! But, that is hardly a balance issue.
In the champions pen and paper game, melee attacks got a boost from strength, and ranged got a boost from nothing. That was the price for having a more versatile form of attack. Strength gave physical defense, so melee were a tougher bunch, while still hitting hard. This game kept many of the names from the pen and paper system, but warped them to fit onto a frame they had already constructed for their marvel mmo. It was never a great fit, IMO.
I think a more fitting statement would be... "This ranged/melee segregation is garbage, let's put it where it belongs."
I respec'd my Automaton to this build and it is a fun themed build. Here is the build (I used athletics and jet boots for travel, however they used rocket jump and jet boots):
powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=12&n=YT%20Iron%20Man&d=1815dCFXBRUB0633005310137049D03IC0G9E037G00IF0KI7097B033E038F049Q009R003AsC43Oy3bDM
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
42 40s, LTSer.
Yes, you can use Champs to make an existing character. Yay?
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I do plan to kept it more "generic" in name though like "Space Marine" instead of Master Chief, but rest assured we aren't going to make "Spider-guy" and run around MC
The issue isn't really the build, though; its the outward appearance that's often the sticking point for being reported.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!