Lariat Bleeds & Rupture!

joybuzzerx

Had tried working on it before, but just didn't care for using a sword with the concept. Now we have invisible weapons.

Tested it out on my always in the PH level 40 and Lariats + Reaper's Embrace looks good! Now just need to get a build that works. Try to get the damage & survival to feel like it matches 2GM & LR!

Should I stick with LR w/ DEX/CON/INT? Switch it to something different?

Part of me was thinking maybe Quarry w/ STR/INT/CON. Could concentrate on INT/CON mods, but then I don't think I'd want to go with the Single Blade Toggle Power because it's based on the DEX stat.

purin1

I've used a build with both Lariats and Reaper's Embrace for nearly two years now, and I've loved it ever since. I also have Reaper's Caress for extra DPS and bleeds in between Lariat cooldowns, but I can see that animation being a bit awkward with invisible weapons compared to Reaper's Embrace.

I've always used Way of the Warrior with it because of its huge increase to Bleed/Rupture damage while giving the best dodge/avoidance that isn't LR. STR/CON/INT with Aspect of the Bestial gives me nigh-infinite energy with only 60 INT with MSA ticking and large energy returns from stacking Enrage. You can easily stack INT higher if you want, I just stacked CON for PvP purposes. I used full Vigilante secondaries and Heroics/Legions with 6 CON mods - that never failed me, but there's lots of variations that work.

You can easily stick with LR or try Quarry if you want, but I find WotW gives more than enough survivability needed with its dodge/avoidance and with enough CON stacked, and it also gives a higher boost to melee physical damage than Quarry plus its extra bleed/rupture damage.

I've used Form of the Swordsman from time to time if I feel like making my build more themed and pleasing to look at (since I do use a sword), but sacrifices need to be made like less CON/INT for the damage/energy return from DEX. One could go DEX primary, but STR primary is much more sturdy. So overall I find STR/CON/INT WotW to be the best way to go with the build, at least from my own preferences.

I might actually go for a slight costume/build change and go for a "full chain" build as well since I do have the imaginary weapons unlocked, it seems like a fun idea and was wondering about it myself.

joybuzzerx

Do you charge both Lariats and Reaper's Embrace fully or do you just tap them?

purin1

I tap everything. My reasoning behind it is tapping the Lariats allows me to knock the target and stay on the move, and while they are both on cooldown I can use a full combo of Reaper's Caress for a guaranteed bleed. I tap Reaper's Embrace because the less time I spend charging it, the faster I can get to stacking bleeds again. The full damage of the Ruptures are also applied on just a tap, so there is that as well.

If you aren't planning on using any other attacks (at least on single targets) besides the Lariats and Reaper's Embrace, I can see there being reason for charging them, especially Reaper's Embrace. Charging it will give you more time for the Lariats to come off of cooldown while you wait. There's also the situations where you wouldn't want to knock a target, and times where fully charging RE will kill the target while tapping it will not. I really recommend just trying different combos of tapping/charging to see what you like best.

flowcyto

Tapping Lariats is likely the way to go for dps. Since lariats are low upfront dps in themselves, ya want to minimize the time spent charging them if ya want more dps in total. This is assuming ur filler attack is higher upfront dps (I assume it is; lariat's w/o the bleed are only about double the dps of an end builder).

Tap vs. charge on Reaper's I'm unsure about. Getting the Rupture dmg on tap is nice, but Embrace is a good dps move in itself. May again depend on the filler attack and its dps.

DEX PSS w/ an MA form would likely be better for dps, but STR PSS is def much more hardy w/ Con SS.

Guess I'll parse some variants out on my tester toon now, out of curiosity..

-

(DEX/Int/Con, WotW + FotS, Wardicator, Dex Mastery, ~380 Dex, 200 Con, 150 Int, melee role)
~4min tests each on a Regen dummy

= Filler #1: R2 Shred w/ PS (high dps + shredded + bleeding filler), tapped Lariats =
- W/ tapped Embrace: ~3.34k dps
- W/ charged Embrace: ~3.26k dps

.. tapped Embrace is slightly ahead here.

= Filler #2: R3 Iron Chain (low dps, no debuff, doesn't bleed), tapped Lariats =
- W/ tapped Embrace: ~1.95k dps
- W/ charged Embrace: ~2.26k dps

.. and the other end of the filler dps scale makes the opposite case true (somewhat).

= Filler #3: R3 Reaper's Caress (high dps + bleeds), tapped Lariats =
- w/ tapped Embrace: ~3.23k dps
- w/ charged Embrace: ~3.08k dps

.. similar to the Shred filler results.


And for the heckuvit, some more setup variants..

= Filler #1 + Charged Embrace & Charged Lariats: 2.62k dps (vs. 3.26k)

.. yea, you prob dun want to charge the lariats if ur filler attack is worth a damn.

= Other tests w/ Filler #1 and tapped Embrace =
- Quarry instead of WotW: 2.98k dps (vs. 3.34k)
- Quarry + Ranged instead of Melee role: 2.57k dps (vs. 3.34k)

= Filler #2 and tapped Embrace =
- Quarry + Ranged role: 2.04k dps (vs. 1.95k)

Going the ranged route w/ Quarry (say if ya wanted to use a Ranged AoE and boost that more, or use a ranged attack as the filler instead of a melee one) prob favors tapped Embrace, since it won't gain the role benefit then. The full melee route w/ WotW is likely optimal for ST dps either way.

For a filler attack more in the mid-range, it'll prob be a bit of a toss-up between tapping or charging Embrace. I'd favor the latter just cause it feels more weighty and deliberate, as the rest of the rotation is also a buncha tapped abilities, but perhaps just do w/e feels more natural to you.

purin1

Thanks for running some tests on it, flow. I've been wondering about the numbers for lots of those variations for a while now.

flowcyto

Yeah np. I was curious about it myself, since there's many ways to play around w/ the lariat bleed + Rupture concept.

One thing to note, I guess, is that although charging the lariats generally isn't good for dps, tapping them does kinda make the rotation look weird aesthetically (if ur doing it more optimally ur canceling and changing attack anims constantly). Ya can get a more dynamic and weighty look taking a ranged Quarry spec, charging (or half-charging) the lariats and using a ranged dps filler. It does look cool, even if the dps coming from it likely won't be good.

joybuzzerx

Could be a bit better if the animation would switch back and forth between hands.

I am a bit curious how much cool down I would need to get the Lariats to be seemless before a rupture.

Bit of a tight build for me, but that's because I have to have Crippling Coils...it's just one of my favorite animations in CO. I'd rank it in the top 3 for animation.

flowcyto

joybuzzerx wrote:

I am a bit curious how much cool down I would need to get the Lariats to be seemless before a rupture.

The extreme end of CDR that CO would allow (at lvl 40) cuts CDs to ~28-30% of their base. This is w/ stacking a crapton of Int + CDR and using something like AoPM or Quarry's Audacity.

So ya could get the Lariats down to a 2sec cd (or below), but it wouldn't be easy (to the point of something like 400-500 total CDR and 650-750 total Int; obv none of this ideal for dps if using Rupture).

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joybuzzerx

Aspect of the Beastial. Does that get stronger with the more CON you have?

I was also looking at Enrage. The knocks stack up easily and you can add in Endorphin Rush, but if Aspect of the Beast or Form of the Swordsman would give more damage?

purin1

joybuzzerx wrote: »

Aspect of the Beastial. Does that get stronger with the more CON you have?

I was also looking at Enrage. The knocks stack up easily and you can add in Endorphin Rush, but if Aspect of the Beast or Form of the Swordsman would give more damage?

Both Aspect of the Bestial and Enrage's damage boost scales with STR, since they give you stacks of Enraged. Form of the Swordsman's damage boost scales with DEX since it gives you stacks of Focus. Assuming you had the same amount of STR and DEX, each stack of Enraged and Focus would give you the same amount of damage respectively.

Both Enrage and Aspect of the Bestial work fine since the Lariats stack them both and they'd give the same amount of damage, but Aspect of the Bestial stacks faster since there is no internal cooldown on getting stacks from bleeds, but there is one when getting stacks from knocks. Endorphin Rush is still an okay heal though, and Enraged doesn't particularly stack slowly or anything.

The above reasons are why I use STR/CON/INT. I can get enough STR from Vigilante secondaries alone for a high damage boost and energy return from Aspect of the Bestial or Enrage, allowing me to stack CON for defense and get a bit of INT for MSA. When using Form of the Swordsman, you'd need to take DEX as a superstat for significant damage/energy from Focus, causing you to lose out on the knock resist and other countless perks to STR primary if you go DEX primary. And then you'd need to choose between losing energy from MSA if you gave up INT, and of course losing defense/HP from sacrificing CON if you picked DEX as a secondary SS.

flowcyto

Yeah many toggles and setups can work for this sort of build, since the lariats are cheap and constantly give you MSA, and most quick attacks ya could use as filler are also cheap.