Original Star Wars Trilogy

biffsmackwell

I remember this was brought up pretty recently, so: Star Wars Trilogy.

jennymachx

About...freaking...time.

I was never a fan of Lucas's "special" editions. If there's one positive thing that's happened ever since Disney took over the IP that people can't argue against, this would be it.

sistersilicon

joybuzzerx

I'm someone who didn't hate all the additional scenes, but there were some I thought "WHY?!"

Though I thought maybe that's just because my parents had all the movies way back when and mom was buy all these Star Wars books!

So when special edition came out and to see them on the big screen was a big treat, but at the same time, some of the scenes shouldn't have been messed with, including the original ewok song!

flyingfinn

nepht

They are now almost forgiven for all the crap movies they have done. Almost.

xydaxyda

pfft..I already got this





...on laser disk.

ashstorm1

As a child from the 80's, i am myself moderately annoyed at the successive re-workings of the original trilogy. I mean, it's just awesome as it, and we didn't need more useless eye-candy (yes, i'm looking at you, Max Rebo Band from ROTJ Special Edition).

As for the infamous Han Shot First meme... Seriously, Georges? Why did you think trying to have Han pass for a nicey-nicey Care Bear was going to be a popular idea among fans? Solo is an a**hole, period. A charming, lovable one that is, but an a**hole nonetheless. And that's how fans love him.

jonsills

Of course Han shot first. You can't dodge a blaster bolt, especially at point-blank range; if Han had been "sporting" and let Greedo get off the first shot, he'd have died. George's alteration of that scene didn't make Han look "heroic", it made him look stupid.

It also damaged the character arc - Han started off as a selfish SOB whose only loyalty was to his buddy Chewie and even that might be up for grabs if the stakes were high enough, and wound up being ready to give his life for his comrades and for the cause. (Then apparently he backslid between RotJ and TFA, but that happens to people sometimes.)

guyhumual

It either made Han look stupid or something else. Let's suppose that Han knew Greedo was going to miss, perhaps he knew Greedo was only looking to scare him, knew that he had a habit of shaking down Jabba's debtors into paying him a cut or something like that. So maybe he knew Greedo was never going to kill him, just scare him into paying Greedo a cut, and so he was merely waiting for the opportunity to murder Greedo so it could appear justified. If this is the case it makes Han appear as a cold blooded murderer rather then a survivor.

jennymachx

And how about that AWFUL-looking edit showing Han shifting his head to avoid Greedo's blaster shot?

biffsmackwell

That looked terrible. Almost as terrible as the shot of the Tusken Raider pumping his Gaderffii stick up in the air, after you notice that the shot is a lot shorter, but they played it, reversed it, played it again to prolong it.

ashstorm1

Even then, though, whether Han shot first or not, or even the Special Edition's half-pointless re-workings, are not really what irks me the most about the Star Wars saga.

My real complain about it is the all-too-obvious difference of materials between the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy. I mean, each time i watch Episode I, II or III, i simply don't feel like i am watching something Star Wars. I am just watching some cool action-packed science-fantasy movie with great CGI. But i'll be damned if i find a single ounce of the Star Wars spirit that was present in the original 70's trilogy.

biffsmackwell

To me, out-of-place CGI effects are no different than obviously-a-puppet effects. I get that people like them because they're nostalgic and stuff, but come on. Puppets looked too much like puppets just like CGI looks too much like CGI. I don't feel too strongly either way about the new stuff and changes to the film, because hey, it's Lucas' films, not mine. He can do whatever he wants with them. I still like them.

markhawkman

yeah, that is very true. crappy effects distract me from the movie and sometimes make for weird fan arguments.... Like the infamous argument about why blaster rifles eject shell casings....

biffsmackwell

In Star Wars? If so, which blasters eject shell casings?

markhawkman

It was something that happened in the first movie. It happened because the blaster props used were modifications of standard prop guns that fired blanks. So at some point in the movie you could see the shell casings from the blanks. At any rate the official line was that it was an effects error... I think, I can't remember where I heard that.

jennymachx

biffsmackwell said:

To me, out-of-place CGI effects are no different than obviously-a-puppet effects. I get that people like them because they're nostalgic and stuff, but come on. Puppets looked too much like puppets just like CGI looks too much like CGI. I don't feel too strongly either way about the new stuff and changes to the film, because hey, it's Lucas' films, not mine. He can do whatever he wants with them. I still like them.

I can overlook most of the CGI inclusions, except for:



That, I find inexcusable and it has nothing to do Hayden as an actor. It comes off as a slap to the face of the late Sebastian Shaw who by then had long passed on without a chance to have a say in anything. Also it feels so misplaced considering that no CGI edit was done during Vader's dying speech to Luke scene to replace him with Hayden's version of Anakin.

Then there's hearing Jar Jar cheering "WESA FREE!" towards the end of ROTJ, as if before then Lucas didn't already get the hint that he's possibly the most widely-hated character found in the franchise, or just did it to spite his critics. Either way I'm glad he no longer has any creative control over anything.

ashstorm1

jennymachx said:

biffsmackwell said:

To me, out-of-place CGI effects are no different than obviously-a-puppet effects. I get that people like them because they're nostalgic and stuff, but come on. Puppets looked too much like puppets just like CGI looks too much like CGI. I don't feel too strongly either way about the new stuff and changes to the film, because hey, it's Lucas' films, not mine. He can do whatever he wants with them. I still like them.

I can overlook most of the CGI inclusions, except for:



That, I find inexcusable and it has nothing to do Hayden as an actor. It comes off as a slap to the face of the late Sebastian Shaw who by then had long passed on without a chance to have a say in anything. Also it feels so misplaced considering that no CGI edit was done during Vader's dying speech to Luke scene to replace him with Hayden's version of Anakin.

^ This. I totally agree with this too... It's a shameless middle-finger given to the memory of Sebastian Shaw.

beezeeze

biffsmackwell said:

To me, out-of-place CGI effects are no different than obviously-a-puppet effects. I get that people like them because they're nostalgic and stuff, but come on. Puppets looked too much like puppets just like CGI looks too much like CGI. I don't feel too strongly either way about the new stuff and changes to the film, because hey, it's Lucas' films, not mine. He can do whatever he wants with them. I still like them.

What I think makes puppets better than CGI is the affect it has on the actors, I genuinely believe that having the effects take place on set will result in better performances.


Also the stormtrooper blasters where built using real weapons and actually shot blanks, sometimes if you look closely you can see the shell casing fly out of them when fired, pretty sure it was for the muzzle flashes and an added sense of realism, because again practical effects are easier for actors to respond to.

biffsmackwell

Weird, I didn't know about the casings. Just goes to show people care a little too much if they're arguing about this.

As far as Hayden being put in as a ghost, I think you guys are looking at it with too much nostalgia. It simply makes sense for Hayden to be there.

If you take all six movies as a whole (forget that you probably hate the sequels), we know Anakin mostly as Hayden. He was only the little kid in one movie. Now, with the latter three movies, we don't know him as Anakin anymore. He's Darth Vader through and through. When his face is revealed, he's not only been burned but he's also aged, so it makes sense to leave him looking like that.

So at the end, we see him back in the form we knew him in, when he was still truly good. You can make that connection. The previous guy, even when we see him for like two minutes, he's heavily made up and scarred and bald. You can barely recognize the guy as a ghost. It only makes sense to put Hayden in there. Especially for the sake of continuity for the entire series. (Remember we're forgetting that you hate the prequels :P)

jennymachx

Um, no. I don't look at it with "too much nostalgia". Forget nostalgia value. Forget how all the reasons why the prequels are panned. Lucas was a total prat for deleting the actor and his participation from what is a very memorable scene from the movie, especially after the actor has long passed by then. It's disrespectful and in poor taste. Yes, he did own the franchise license at the time (even though the franchise's success isn't soley because of him) and could do whatever he wanted, but even then there's a distinction between doing things that make sense, and things that are in bad taste.

Doing it "for the sake of continuity" is a poor, cop-out reason and doesn't validate deleting actor participation in certain films (unless they're okay with it), especially those deep-rooted in pop culture, just because there's a prequel film made later on that adds backstory that has another actor that shares the same role. Yes, the prequels have established that we identify Anakin in the likeness of Hayden (if you don't already retcon the prequels out of your memory), but that's for the prequels. We already know whatever happens in the prequels are events that happened long before those in the original trilogy. We don't need a reminder or a CGI-edit tie in to remind us of that, and especially not by exploiting modern film editing to retcon actors out of their film roles.

biffsmackwell

I understand where you're coming from, but your objections seem arbitrary to me. They didn't erase everything original Vader did. He's still there, he acted the part, his physical acting - the way Vader moves, gestures, all that stuff is still in the movies, and still iconic to this day. (The voice thing is similar and different altogether) He still made his very noticeable mark on the movies. Erasing his face from one scene that lasts a few seconds is hardly worth the anger (to me, at least. I'm not saying you're wrong to feel that way; I just feel very different about it).

catstarsto

the original trilogy is available now, so this should accommodate old or new style fans.


....but, i like this ending best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdukWtJwlPU

XD

jennymachx

biffsmackwell said:

I understand where you're coming from, but your objections seem arbitrary to me. They didn't erase everything original Vader did. He's still there, he acted the part, his physical acting - the way Vader moves, gestures, all that stuff is still in the movies, and still iconic to this day. (The voice thing is similar and different altogether) He still made his very noticeable mark on the movies. Erasing his face from one scene that lasts a few seconds is hardly worth the anger (to me, at least. I'm not saying you're wrong to feel that way; I just feel very different about it).

Well whatever the case, Lucas no longer can deny the fans who love the unaltered originals from having the films transitioned to the updated Blu Ray format with the relevant up-to-date picture remastering, while people who enjoy the edited ones can still do so. Win-win.

beezeeze

Really the only thing I couldn't stand about the special editions was that lame musical number in Return of the Jedi.

xydaxyda said:

pfft..I already got this











...on laser disk.

Besides what old me said is still true. laser disks baby!