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Regarding upper hand
jimhsua
Posts: 1 Arc User
TL;DR: Upper hand appears to increase crit chance and not damage on targets with status effects.
Thread in reference.
Test conditions:
Plot of damage, sorted by ascending order. The "jumps" are points where the dataset transitions from a non-crit to a crit. Note that they are not aligned.
Statistics:
Theoretical Crit: 32.90%
No upper hand:
Crits: 143
Total: 430
Crit: 33.26%
CI: 0.2897 to 0.3784
Upper hand:
Crits: 179
Total: 434
Crit: 41.24%
CI: 0.3671 to 0.4593
Chi-squared value: 13.517
p-value: 0.0002
TODO: Confirm that powers that don't proc debuffs work similarily if there is a debuff stack.
Raw data. Additional data available upon request.
Thread in reference.
Test conditions:
- Random character with 26.9% crit chance plus Vindicator (6%) for a total of 32.9% crit.
- Same exact spec trees, one with 0/3 ranks of Upper Hand, one with 3/3 ranks of Upper Hand.
- Shred. Logging begins after Test Dummy has at least one Shredded stack.
- AoPM for energy.
- Approximate testing time: 5 minutes (434 actions).
Plot of damage, sorted by ascending order. The "jumps" are points where the dataset transitions from a non-crit to a crit. Note that they are not aligned.
Statistics:
Theoretical Crit: 32.90%
No upper hand:
Crits: 143
Total: 430
Crit: 33.26%
CI: 0.2897 to 0.3784
Upper hand:
Crits: 179
Total: 434
Crit: 41.24%
CI: 0.3671 to 0.4593
Chi-squared value: 13.517
p-value: 0.0002
TODO: Confirm that powers that don't proc debuffs work similarily if there is a debuff stack.
Raw data. Additional data available upon request.
Damage-noUH Damage-UH 271 271 272 271 272 271 272 272 272 272 272 272 272 272 272 272 273 272 274 273 274 274 274 274 275 275 275 275 275 275 275 275 275 276 276 277 276 277 276 277 276 279 277 279 277 279 278 279 279 279 279 279 279 280 279 280 279 280 280 280 280 280 280 281 280 281 281 281 281 281 282 281 282 282 282 282 283 282 283 282 283 282 284 282 284 282 285 282 285 283 285 283 285 284 285 284 286 285 286 285 286 285 287 285 287 285 287 285 287 285 288 286 288 287 288 287 289 287 289 287 289 288 289 288 290 288 290 288 290 288 290 289 291 289 292 289 292 289 293 291 293 292 293 292 293 292 294 292 294 293 295 294 295 294 295 295 295 297 296 297 296 298 296 298 296 298 296 298 297 298 297 299 297 299 297 343 298 344 298 345 299 345 299 345 343 345 343 347 344 347 345 348 345 348 345 348 345 348 346 348 346 349 346 349 346 350 347 352 347 352 347 353 348 354 351 354 351 354 352 355 353 356 353 356 353 357 354 357 354 357 354 357 354 359 355 359 356 360 356 360 356 361 357 361 358 361 358 361 358 362 358 362 358 362 358 363 359 363 360 363 360 363 360 363 360 363 360 364 361 364 361 365 361 365 361 365 362 366 362 366 362 366 363 366 363 366 363 367 363 369 364 369 364 369 365 369 365 369 365 371 366 371 366 371 366 371 366 372 367 373 367 374 367 374 368 374 368 374 369 374 369 374 369 375 370 375 370 377 370 377 371 378 372 378 372 378 372 378 372 561 372 562 373 563 373 564 373 566 373 567 374 568 374 569 374 569 374 570 375 573 375 573 375 574 376 576 376 577 377 577 378 579 378 579 562 579 563 580 563 580 565 581 565 581 567 582 570 584 571 584 571 587 572 587 574 588 575 589 576 589 576 589 577 589 579 590 579 590 585 590 585 590 586 591 589 592 589 592 589 592 590 592 590 593 590 593 591 593 591 593 592 594 592 594 592 594 592 594 593 595 593 595 593 595 593 595 593 596 594 596 594 597 594 597 594 598 594 598 594 598 594 598 595 598 595 598 595 599 595 599 595 600 597 600 597 600 598 600 599 600 599 602 599 602 600 603 600 603 601 603 601 604 601 605 602 606 602 607 603 607 606 607 606 608 606 609 606 611 606 611 606 611 609 612 609 612 610 612 610 613 610 614 610 614 611 615 611 615 612 615 612 616 612 616 612 616 612 617 613 617 613 617 613 619 614 619 614 619 615 620 615 620 615 620 617 620 618 621 619 622 619 623 619 624 619 626 621 626 622 628 623 628 623 629 624 629 625 629 625 630 625 630 625 630 626 632 626 632 628 633 628 634 628 635 628 635 629 637 629 637 630 638 630 639 632 639 633 639 633 640 634 640 635 641 636 641 637 642 638 643 638 643 639 644 640 650 641 709 641 709 642 711 642 713 642 713 642 718 643 719 643 719 643 721 644 723 644 723 644 723 645 724 646 724 647 728 648 732 648 732 648 732 649 735 649 737 649 737 650 737 650 737 650 738 650 738 709 738 714 741 715 741 716 741 717 742 720 746 724 748 724 749 730 749 733 750 733 750 733 752 734 752 737 754 738 755 738 756 739 756 740 756 740 757 741 758 741 759 742 760 742 760 742 763 747 764 747 767 748 768 749 768 750 770 750 771 750 771 751 772 755 775 756 777 757 777 759 778 760 779 762 782 763 1217 763 1220 765 1224 765 1224 767 1224 769 1228 775 1232 775 1236 778 1237 782 1240 1222 1244 1223 1250 1227 1252 1227 1257 1228 1257 1232 1257 1233 1257 1235 1259 1241 1263 1246 1268 1251 1272 1251 1272 1252 1272 1252 1274 1253 1276 1254 1277 1261 1279 1262 1282 1267 1287 1269 1290 1270 1295 1270 1295 1275 1295 1279 1298 1279 1302 1284 1305 1287 1305 1289 1307 1291 1307 1294 1308 1295 1311 1296 1314 1300 1315 1307 1321 1310 1322 1312 1326 1314 1327 1318 1330 1327 1331 1331 1331 1334 1333 1340 1335 1340 1337 1342 1338
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Cryptic never fails to impress :x
My old Rising Knee test w/ Shredded also had a notable crit% gap (3 vs 11), so I'd imagine this to hold true. I'd prob test a non-Shredded debuff (like stagger or bleed) w/ a non-debuffing melee power, though- since all my old tests w/ the crit gap had Shredded up.
Nice work analyzing this btw.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
That observation was what inspired me to test this in the first place. Also, to prove you wrong about something
All kidding aside, at least it does something. Guess DEX and Brush it off will be next.
For my test, I took my unleashed to the powerhouse and hit a dummy for 5 minutes, and I wanted to count actual crits compared to expected crits.
total hits 442
total crits 247
percentage crit 0.559
character sheet crit 0.39
+ vindi mass destr 0.06
+ warden slaughter 0.09
= total expect crit 0.54
while there is still a 2% difference, its not as notable as the 8% shown by the OP.
my test data (i took out the slicer glove procs)
I ran a few more tests with a low crit setup on PTS, since the difference between 3.8% crit and 3.8%+6% crit should be noticeable. These results also suggest that the upper hand spec no longer adds crit chance.
I spammed thundering kicks on powerhouse dummy with 3.8% character sheet tooltip crit chance, and then again with 3/3 upper hand spec. Thundering kicks has the demolish advantage, and upper hand is supposed to work with this. Without upper hand, I got 16/552 (2.90%) crits. With upper hand, I got 12/559 (2.15%) crits. Both are around the same result, and suggests that upper hand does not give hidden crit chance bonus.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
So with regards to ranged, single target maintains Focused Strikes appears to be working. Given how finicky the power tagging can get, there may be edge cases.
I have not tested Mass Destruction. Yet.
Character crit: 6.4% chance, 50% severity
Tooltip shred : 715-822-1293 dmg
no UH: shred did 679-1956 damage over 208 hits
same build +3/3 UH: shred did 718-2034 dmg over 206 hits
Using flowcyto's suggestion, comparing lows, 679 to 718 dmg, is 5.7% difference. This is pretty close to the listed 6%, so I guess it really is a base damage bonus after all.
That said, yea given that your tooltip dmg numbers for Shred are much higher than its dmg w/ no build_gear, this does rule out UH just being in the passive dmg layer (w/ all the DR). Also, thanks to you and to Gammabreaker for giving some extra tests here.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Going w/ a high crit% setup (Int PSS + Dex SS with 2/2 Expertise and R3 Hybrid AoPM, Wardicator) and using R2 100Hands w/ Demolish adv, since it's steady, rapid dmg for melee (ignoring the chi flame dmg). Also threw in TKicks w/ Demolish at the start so all tracked hits of 100Hands would have Demolish. Has 43.2% char sheet crit, 88.7% severity, and (supposedly) 6% extra crit from Mass Destruction (also using R3 CoAP for stable energy).
Fortunately, ACT allows you to also sort your data by category from increasing_decreasing values, which makes getting the highs or lows even easier in practice.
=[Test 1]= 0/3 Upper Hand (1056 hits total, 51% overall crit rate):
Some weirdness w/ the resist values and Demolish aside (which doesn't have a bearing on the base dmg values), the highest base dmg crit hit is ~367, and the lowest base normal hit is ~182.5.
=[Test 2]= 3/3 Upper Hand (1032 hits total, 50% overall crit rate):
Highest base crit hit here is ~378, while the lowest base normal hit is ~192.7.
378/367 = only a ~3% increase on the highest crit, and a ~5.6% increase on the lowest normal hit. Both the lowest normal hit and the highest crit hit are boosted by almost the same amount (~10-11 dmg). This actually supports Upper Hand being in the offense/severity layer and not being a full base dmg boost (a bit weird, but not impossible, since dmg utility mods also fall in that layer, iirc). I guess the early hint was the bonus for the lowest normal hit not being quite 6%, despite having more precise dmg numbers for that, as offense rating could impact that slightly as is (had 7.8% offense bonus here).
--
Conveniently, judging by the overall crit rates I got for 100Hands, I think these tests also give strong support for Mass Destruction working as advertised, which is nice.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!