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PvP Casuals
roughbearmattach
Posts: 4,785 Arc User
I'm looking to start some type of organized PvP, preferably using the team duel system (so no ring-outs).
The idea is for folks that make PvE builds, particularly thematic ones which aren't completely optimized, to have fun with PvP. We could organize some PvP team matches, or even single matches, but still using the team PvP functionality, without worrying that the PvP regulars will come in and dominate to the exclusion of our fun.
I'm writing this post after yet another once in a great while attempt at BASH, wherein the person defeating the rest of us while cycling unbreakable/masterful dodge and ego surge/ascension typed "gg" after something which most certainly wasn't a "gg".
People that aren't experts in PvP, and who aren't interested in becoming so, do like PvP at times, but it can be hard to find like-minded folks. With the old Hero Games, it was easy, particularly at levels 10-30 or so; but those queues don't work anymore.
If you're interested in some casual fun PvP with thematic, PvE builds, post here and let's see if we can figure something out.
EDIT: Here are the rules.
1. If a hero dominates the matches, he or she is asked to retire.
NOTE: The hero is asked to retire, not the player.
2. Have fun, be positive.
3. If you are arguing that you aren't dominating, and that you shouldn't switch heroes. . . that means, in fact, that you should.
4. If you are obstinate or rude, no one plays with you anymore.
The idea is for folks that make PvE builds, particularly thematic ones which aren't completely optimized, to have fun with PvP. We could organize some PvP team matches, or even single matches, but still using the team PvP functionality, without worrying that the PvP regulars will come in and dominate to the exclusion of our fun.
I'm writing this post after yet another once in a great while attempt at BASH, wherein the person defeating the rest of us while cycling unbreakable/masterful dodge and ego surge/ascension typed "gg" after something which most certainly wasn't a "gg".
People that aren't experts in PvP, and who aren't interested in becoming so, do like PvP at times, but it can be hard to find like-minded folks. With the old Hero Games, it was easy, particularly at levels 10-30 or so; but those queues don't work anymore.
If you're interested in some casual fun PvP with thematic, PvE builds, post here and let's see if we can figure something out.
EDIT: Here are the rules.
1. If a hero dominates the matches, he or she is asked to retire.
NOTE: The hero is asked to retire, not the player.
2. Have fun, be positive.
3. If you are arguing that you aren't dominating, and that you shouldn't switch heroes. . . that means, in fact, that you should.
4. If you are obstinate or rude, no one plays with you anymore.
___________________________________________________________
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Post edited by roughbearmattach on
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"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I've done 2k's with it before. ;D
By the way, merry Christmas to yule.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
What are people's play schedules, in PST (Server Time)?
I usually play from 7:00-10:00 pm server time (1900-2200 hours), though I play a lot more on weekends and vacation.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
But for now, let's say... 12:00-2:00 pm (1200-1400) and 8:00-10:00 (2000-2200), EST.
Lol
I've lost against that build soooo many times. Funny thing, I can't remember the players or heroes, because that build is just used over and over and over.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I'd consider myself themed, but I'm assuming some people would have problems with Evasive Maneuvers, Ego Surge, Conviction, and my use of STR/CON/INT while stacking CON even though EM and STR/CON/INT fit what I had in mind for the build. It's just a dueling/DPS/Off-Tank build that I've used in both PvP and PvE for a year and a half now, but people still like to complain about it despite their use of the "norm" in PvP.
TL;DR - I think you should have specific stipulations for what builds can and cannot use or use together because some people make themed or concept builds that will be much stronger than others, causing people to complain about certain powers in PvP even if they're not common.
Oooo Ooo lemme try lemme try!
Is it Ice Form?
Also in the entire themed thing I don't think they mean "themed" as much as they mean "for lols and to enjoy the game in your own way that gives a certain sense of challenge build." As technically my SR ice form build works with the backstory of the two imps. Ofcourse I wouldn't take that one to this however, I would take the imp that fly's the plane that uses a build based around getting damage from mind link for loling about in BASH.
Generally just ask for people to come along and have fun and if people end up just trolling about with a troll'y blatant PvP build then ask them to either tone it down in some way / swap toon / or just don't let them participate.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
What determines the cut-off point between "pvp pro build" and "pve theme build"? I have a lot of theme builds (which don't use "those" powers) but for some reason after dueling people with them they still make it sound like I'm using some sort of amazing uber-pvp build... so I don't know if they're..... weak(?) enough to qualify?
^ this NEVER works out. It never has. There's a whole lot of discussion, a ton of people disagreeing, a heaping dose of finger pointing, and at the end nothing is accomplished and the question is never answered.
The thing to do is to go with "obviously" and "it's not fun for anyone but you".
Obviously - if someone shows up and starts ego surge-unleashed rage+strafing run one-shotting everyone... that is OBVIOUSLY not the kind of build that was intended to be a part of this. If matches take forever because someone is cycling MD+Unbreakable+a billion heals.... then that is OBVIOUSLY not the kind of build that was intended to be a part of this.
It's not fun for anyone but you- "Obviously" identifies those builds... this is how we deal with them. Tell that person "Look, you're obviously having a great time destroying everyone else... but it's not fun for anyone but you... maybe switch to a different character or something?".
It doesn't really matter what build people have, what matters is if people are having fun. The more people are having fun, the greater the chance of success. If people aren't having fun, they'll just stop showing up and then it's over. Yes, essentially you are punishing people for winning too much by saying that they cannot participate if they don't stop doing that, but for this thing to work everyone is going to have to put on their big boy pants and their big girl panties and realize that "winning too much" is in fact a problem that threatens to ruin the whole thing - more specifically it's "preventing other people from ever having a chance at winning" that's the problem.
The objective is to have fun, interesting fights where everyone gets to have a meaningful impact... anyone who isn't on board with that and is instead more concerned with winning will just have to be pushed to the side.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I've found nothing works in these situations in the very end. Even if everyone comes to an agreement on things people still get salty. And even if you recommend people to use common sense when bringing a build to this, they will just bring what they think is fun whether it is fun for others or not. People would be asked to leave or sit out in both cases, but when you have set rules beforehand people have no reason to show up and complain if they're using something that was already a big no-no to begin with.
P.S. Eastern Time Zone evenings here
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Unfortunately, ATs are a balance mess just like anything else.
But basically, you and I are in agreement. We can all tell when someone's build is obviously causing an issue... and the solution is to just ask if that person will solve the issue themselves by switching to a different character. If someone gets all salty about it, then it's clear that that person is just here to rub their ego in other peoples' faces, and then you just don't include that person in the future.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yep, yep, and yep. No special parameters are needed--the idea is to have fun PvP for folks that can't generally participate in BASH or RenCen duels because they never ever win.
If you are questioning what constitutes a theme build, a PvP build, or how good is too good--this won't be for you. Simple as that. No need to discuss.
If you wish to think of this organized PvP as a "losers bracket", feel free. If single player dominates in 5-10 second wins, that person simply won't get to play anymore--they earned their way out of this lower tier, and can move on the BASH and challenging other top players in the Ren Cen to duels.
Scheduling: So far, people that have specified times have gone with evenings, EST--which corresponds, roughly, to 4-8 pm Server Time.
Keep 'em coming.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
like dis my tiny demon thingy
http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=11&n=schmoo&d=113700000004711P004P105P303PC00P80WPF05P900A803AI049Q00AB04IL03EI04AJ0011F009gO3T3B
I'd say it's themed and pve, only things might bother people are BCR, WAY OF THE WARRIOR and EGO SURGE.
no wait nononono the fact that it's STR/CON with enrage/unleashed rage will bother people.
I'm sure people will whine about something like this.
Good luck with this anyway.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
How are those the things that bother people?
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
AT's only = optimal team of 1 void, 3-4 glacier or 1 of the healers, maybe inventor with tele's as a device... That doesn't sound very interesting. -_-
Making it less than 6k hp will mean a lot of people can't play. I think the general idea is just a bunch of people who all just want to have fun and wont be super competitive trying to win in seconds and may play around a bit on a comedy build or something. I don't think any rules are needed, it's just something where you need to kinda trust everyone there are cool people, as I said earlier if someone is seeming to own everyone too bad ask him to switch toon, play with some kind of handicap or just ask him not to join in.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
1. If you come to dominate against a bunch of PvP novices, please just don't come at all.
2. If your toon is built to wipe the floor with non-PvP builds, please don't bring that one.
3. Come to have fun and PvP in a setting where those with less experience, non-optimized builds, and poor reaction time are the norm.
I'm going to engage a discussion of "What is theme?" "Which powers are too good?" or "What is really a PvP build?"
This isn't about that.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Okay I'll wait for you to engage it then.
Then why are you engaging it?
(FYI I'm joking)
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Yes, and anyone who uses that reasoning to make sure they have ego surge in literally every build while getting the advantage and stacking constitution is the kind of person who doesn't need to bother trying to participate in this u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Is obviously what he meant to type u3u he's a bear though and sometimes their big bear paws don't work a keyboard too good o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I don't think so, the unleashed is a great AT thanks to its damage and knock. Also, 1 soldier can take out every AT healer or DPS. Also, you forgot to mention the Automaton, which only needs one ego surged chest beam to kill every AT, or the scourge. The only ATs that kinda suck in pvp usually, are inventors and devastators, but they aren't that bad. AT pvp is pretty balanced imo.
I bet that even with the OP's rules, the winner will be the person with the highest hp or just someone with smoke nade/em+nuke (mind break/sr/ur/ss or whatever).
I might bring my earth form-tk maelstrom toon if the time's right, am in UTC time myself so anything around 18:00 would be good.
Either way, I'm glad more "casuals" are trying to enter the pvp scene. We need more of them around.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
But
1) PVP-newb friendliness + 2) joy of playing above satisfaction of (near-insta) victory + 3) freedom of choice(yetin elastic restraints) in builds looks like a very difficult -if not impossible - equation to solve to me.
In case the base idea does not work well enough you may try imposing *one* build (or 1 among let's say 3) for everyone, removing parameter/problem 3). Yes it would turn the thing into a battle of clones - price to pay for a good mix of fun and fairness ?
Then to escape boredom, rotate the only build allowed every X days. Ofc this leads to ressource issues to finance retcons - setting a level in the 20-30 range for these encounters can help, a level high enough to flesh out the char and low enough for affordable regular retcon.
This may sound going away too far from the OP proposal and/or CO freedom so anyways good luck and have - and give us - fun!
PS: is there a dedicated chat channel ?
And you're still trying to justify having ego surge in every build. Is there a reason you have to have it in every build? I'd be interested to hear it.
Or wait, are you actually not using ego surge in every build and you're just standing up for all the people who would be doing that? Cause if so... you should know, those people are not really the types that this particular event is geared for. They can do whatever they want, ego surge in every build all day every day... they should just maybe consider that this event isn't for that type of mindset.
And honestly... this kind of is "pvp for gimps". Sure, show up with your PvE super tank that can solo gravitar... sure, it wasn't made for pvp... sure, I'm sure it has a super neat theme...... but it's definitely going to ruin the fun, and you should consider that before you consider how to justify using conventional powerful build combinations.
Hell, I'm worried about bringing my power armor character into this, because despite her being completely theme, being extremely squishy, and using no conventional building wisdom whatsoever, I'm concerned that her tendency of nuking squishy characters extremely fast is going to ruin peoples' fun.
Instead of trying to restrict people beforehand, we're instead going to do something which makes more sense... wait until there actually is a problem, and then ask the person causing the problem to solve it themselves. The idea here is that everyone who wants to be involved is also 100% on board with the idea behind the event....or they're someone who wants to be involved because they want to take advantage of the idea by showing off how "leet" they are, and when those people are identified they won't be invited anymore.
It'll work better that way, because doing it the other way just ends up with a lot of debating that goes nowhere.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Meh that wasn't what me and green got when we tested them. All we understood when we did is every single one of them was much better off after being CON stacked. Inventor with 15k HP was one of the best because he could kite however can easily be beaten by ones like void and glacier who counter his kiting. Glacier has high damage although lacks burst a little bit while having unbreakable and technically the possibility to have over 20k HP if someone decided to sacrifice all damage... Although it seems best at around 13k like most FF PvP builds are. I said Void because of the trauma but I suppose you are right that there are better ones in that area, it'd just be something to counter AT's such as the master.
Just saying that using inventor I could beat or draw against almost every AT other than 2-3 of them purely by being CON stacked. You know I beat dragon claw's UR build on it right?
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
That's interesting, I'd like to see that. I really think the Automaton kicks arse in AT pvp because it's a very good tank breaker thanks to ego surge+chest beam.
Every conventional pvp build has Ego Surge in it...it's the thing that makes all those amazingly tanky builds able to one-shot squishy dps builds. I think that makes Ego Surge one of the powers that best defines what's trying to be avoided here. I'm surprised you don't grasp that concept.
If you don't plan to show up with Ego Surge, then I don't get why you're trying to defend it so hard.
People just won't do that then. They'll just say "Hey, you're too unkillable" or "Hey, you're causing matches to end too quickly" and throw on a "Can you do something about that?". At that point we'll see if that person cares more about making the event fun for everyone, or winning. Sure maybe they're fond of a build... the question is, are they willing to put that aside so they can stop ruining it for everyone else? I'm very fond of my power armor build... I don't plan on using it because I know the first thing I'm going to do in a match is insta-gib someone... and that's no fun for them. I'm super fond of Kagami, but the idea of her being in any way appropriate for this is laughable.
Like I said, big boy pants and big girls panties. If we can't get enough mature people together to make this work, then the audience for this just doesn't exist in the game. We all know that balance in this game is a mess, and we all know it just gets messier if we let our egos get involved.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Though Spinnytop and I don't often agree on the forums, we are in complete agreement here.
This isn't about rules, it's about having similar mindsets and attitudes. Serious PvP players, who are striving their hardest to win every single match, simply aren't who we're looking for.
If you are a serious (or highly skilled) PvP player, bringing your best builds/best game, then you will quickly beat the regular folks, who just won't play with you any more. Then, you can go back to the regular PvP crowd who match your skill level and the power of your builds.
P.S. Feel free to use Ego Surge, or any other power, for that matter.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Two powers do a lot better though and the probability of you having a bunch of the other typical powers in your build is very likely. Suddenly you find out you have ego surge and MD with conviction. Then you think to yourself why not add in unbreakable too.
Infact I think even if you have nothing else other than ego surge as the typical kind of powers that don't truly break "themes" and it is your only cheesey power if you want to actually make it worth having you'll most likely have a fair amount of CON. Most likely from this you'll also want damage and you'll see the best way to get good damage and defense is to get strength as your primary, it will also give knock resistance so it's win win, why not do it, it wont break theme. You then decide to get vindicator warden because of the blatant synergy it all has with how your build has gone.
All of a sudden ego surge has defined the build as a typical high HP but still lots of damage and defense with high crit severity so that ego surge will give a nice burst.
Technically we shouldn't be talking about ego surge though, we should be talking about nimble mind... And on that note how OP CON is as a stat (not having diminishing returns) alongside cooldown reduction and STR PSS. But all of this suddenly has become awfully off topic and everything I have typed here isn't proof read at all so probably sounds like I slammed my face onto my keyboard a few hundred times.
All in all I don't really see this as a competitive thing, it is competitive in the way you would compete to win a board game with your friend or family but it is in a way that everyone involved makes sure the others have fun too. For example if you end up with a young child playing against you in a board game you aren't just going to go and beat him into the ground to win in a second, you're going to make sure he has some kind of chance. That is what this is about.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I think it's obvious what they are looking for here.
My build is themed and made for pure pve, and "the ridiculous crap which goes for pvp builds nowadays" can take it out pretty quick most of the time.
However, I still know that my build is not what they are looking for here...and I'm pretty sure you've been around the pvp block long enough to know what they're not looking for either.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
I'm not a super skilled video gamer with great reflexes.
I'd also like to see some of my more oddball builds in PvP.
I'm on holiday now, but I'll be back this weekend.
Let's shoot for an event in that time frame.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I'd ask "what are we outlawing here" but it's difficult because player skill is involved. Just bring in something average, I assume? I'm down for that.
RIP Caine
Also damn Smoochan to hell for all the porn pics. We still cant use images in Hero Games forums U_U"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Or I can make a whole new build.
Or I can bring Combat Medic, who deals so little damage he might actually increase your total HP.
Call Maverick if you need a DPS help, or Combat Medic if you need a healer.
I am known for having extremely good or extremely bad luck with drops.
Show up with whatever you like. Just don't throw a fit when someone asks you to switch characters because you're "accidentally" dropping people left and right every time you pop ego surge.
Still don't understand why you made such a big stink about something you don't even intend to use. What, "the principal" again? I have a Dean.
I actually remember the actual thing that caused the pvp forum to lose pictures. I won't say exactly what was in it... but I will make it obvious by saying that you, nephy, could not have posted such a pic after a certain point in your life.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
So do I. Look!
Call Maverick if you need a DPS help, or Combat Medic if you need a healer.
I am known for having extremely good or extremely bad luck with drops.