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FC.31.20140919.1/.2/.3 PTS Update

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jimhsua wrote: »
    That part wasn't in direct reference to your post. There was a mention somewhere that team buffs, arcane circles, etc will make the recon biosteel change not "worth much". I simply beg to differ on this point.
    Ah, yeah, it's an entirely separate thing. Team buffs do seem to be an issue with vehicles, but I think it's because vehicles have high base damage and low damage bonuses -- a 25% buff on a player who already has 150% in damage bonuses is less significant than one on a vehicle with 25% in bonuses.
  • tfavsb10tfavsb10 Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Are you guys going to have a PTS event for the Destroid Attack Mechananon takeover before it goes live? Not sure if anyone ever played through that on PTS yet.

    Noone can ****ing test the anniversery event on pts, thier isnt enough hordes of players
  • lordgarlordgar Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Release Notes for FC.31.20140919.3:


    Mechanon Event:

    • Fixed a problem with Mechanon trying to spawn in after the timer runs out.

    • Raised the target cap on the Mega Destroids' Destroyer Blast.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lordgar wrote: »
    [*]Raised the target cap on the Mega Destroids' Destroyer Blast.
    Well, that might be exciting, depending on what the new cap is (which we can't determine on pts).
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jimhsua wrote: »
    That part wasn't in direct reference to your post. There was a mention somewhere that team buffs, arcane circles, etc will make the recon biosteel change not "worth much". I simply beg to differ on this point.

    Arcane circle is not a team buff, it is a player power that only works for the player that casts it. But that keeps being active even after activating your vehicle, for as long as you stay in the circle.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lordgar wrote: »
    [*]Raised the target cap on the Mega Destroids' Destroyer Blast.
    [/LIST]
    Long-ranged units can still avoid these entirely due to the charge time. Mega-D's already throw tons of things based on close proximity, including instant-cast 22k 'Pyres' (the ground slams) or thunderstrikes and similar-dmg cone shocks that can arc behind them to hit melee. This actually makes it even worse for melee and close ranged as w/ the target cap limit in place they could still chance not taking dmg from the blast sometimes if there was enough players coordinating to hit the same packs. Now they are the first priority to get hit by the new raised cap (unless ya changed the blast mechanic completely).

    Also, could the charge indicators for their powers be placed lower on the FoV? Its nearly impossible to see tells from both Mega-Ds at the same time as is, and that's crucial if ya ever wanna bother bringing melee to this. Their anims are not reliable indicators since they can be buggy, laggy, or interrupted, and don't really specify what is what w/o the indicator. Any special AoE from them that's not blocked is likely to just one-shot melee outright.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Long-ranged units can still avoid these entirely due to the charge time.
    Well, sort of. It decides whether or not it's going to hit you substantially before the attack occurs, after which range (and LOS, and so on) cease to matter, so if you aren't really fast about it there tends to be 'wait, I was 50' outside the bubble, how did I get hit?'.
  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lordgar wrote: »
    Raised the target cap on the Mega Destroids' Destroyer Blast.

    I'll echo the sentiment that I have no idea what this change is supposed to accomplish, besides making the encounter more difficult for everyone, but especially people on foot. If that's the point, then I digress; but due to how the targeting on these things work right now, things that are closer (which includes all melee and the vast majority of ranged characters) will still end up eating more AOEs than things (100 ft ranged/vehicles) that are further away.

    If you want things to be more tactically interesting, an idea: get rid of destroyer blast, change the anti-vehicular beam to a cone, and use the tell mechanic from Firewing in FM. That should make things considerably more interesting while still fair.
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  • gaarafrednorrispgaarafrednorrisp Posts: 504 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    >.> Are you kidding, DaZee? I think this makes it more fun! \o/ More destruction that the Nightmare shall witness, his laugh echoing as the heroes fall one by one until he must come and be their salvation once more, if only to prove that he shall forever be above them.


    ...Also, I love difficulty and the fact no one is safe >.>
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  • lordgarlordgar Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    sterga wrote: »
    New wallpaper?

    Yep! TrailTurtle just added them to the CO media page!
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Well, sort of. It decides whether or not it's going to hit you substantially before the attack occurs, after which range (and LOS, and so on) cease to matter, so if you aren't really fast about it there tends to be 'wait, I was 50' outside the bubble, how did I get hit?'.

    That could be due to latency too, since player and mob hitboxes tend to lag bit behind what you visually see when moving (that's def not a problem unique to CO, though).

    (ofc that's also assuming the cap is much, much higher now such that in a full zone of players the 100ft units can still actually be registered as targets to be hit by the blast, which I doubt we'll know till Live)
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lordgar wrote: »
    Yep! TrailTurtle just added them to the CO media page!

    Yay!


    So, in phase 2 of the Dominus fight (poe), he uses a dome thing around him. Outside the dome is a nasty blood rain that does oodles of damage. As long as you stay inside the dome, you don't get your face ripped off.

    Why not have the Mega Ds have a dome of protection? Everyone outside the dome gets caught in an ion storm or satellite death blast. Something nicer to melee but nasty to those ranged sissies.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    That could be due to latency too
    If that was the case you would see rubberbanding when you get knocked, and you don't. There's a long-standing issue with critter powers only checking targets at start of animation, which affects whether you're hit, and whether you get knocked (block, done late, will stop the damage, but will not stop the knock). You'll see the same thing if a mob tries to land a charged haymaker or something. Player powers do generally check twice (note that critter melee powers, if they checked twice, would miss almost all of the time, so there's legitimate reasons to only check once).
  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lordgar wrote: »
    Release Notes for FC.31.20140919.3:


    Mechanon Event:

    • Fixed a problem with Mechanon trying to spawn in after the timer runs out.

    • Raised the target cap on the Mega Destroids' Destroyer Blast.
    If that was the case you would see rubberbanding when you get knocked, and you don't. There's a long-standing issue with critter powers only checking targets at start of animation, which affects whether you're hit, and whether you get knocked (block, done late, will stop the damage, but will not stop the knock). You'll see the same thing if a mob tries to land a charged haymaker or something. Player powers do generally check twice (note that critter melee powers, if they checked twice, would miss almost all of the time, so there's legitimate reasons to only check once).

    I think it checks range at something like 1/3rd of the way of a charge ... I'm intimately familiar with this because my mega-d strategy usually leads to dive-bombing champions with medic drones, and that generally means many, many deaths.
  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    sterga wrote: »
    Yay!

    Why not have the Mega Ds have a dome of protection? Everyone outside the dome gets caught in an ion storm or satellite death blast. Something nicer to melee but nasty to those ranged sissies.

    Might want to restrict that to the instance area at the most. Though nuking everyone at Sapphire's concert has a certain appeal...
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    If that was the case you would see rubberbanding when you get knocked, and you don't. There's a long-standing issue with critter powers only checking targets at start of animation, which affects whether you're hit, and whether you get knocked (block, done late, will stop the damage, but will not stop the knock). You'll see the same thing if a mob tries to land a charged haymaker or something. Player powers do generally check twice (note that critter melee powers, if they checked twice, would miss almost all of the time, so there's legitimate reasons to only check once).
    Well, that's good info to know- thanks.
    jimhsua wrote:
    Might want to restrict that to the instance area at the most. Though nuking everyone at Sapphire's concert has a certain appeal...
    Maybe that's why the Mega-Ds were staying far away from Ren Center at first.
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  • chimerafreekchimerafreek Posts: 406 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Sooooo... Mechanon Torso and hips; are these two costume pieces missing due to a bug, or is there some other reason?
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  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Sooooo... Mechanon Torso and hips; are these two costume pieces missing due to a bug, or is there some other reason?

    I don't think they put them in as unlockable yet.
  • canadascottcanadascott Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Well the die is cast on this one. I hope there are some unique rewards, including a perk for beating it, because it's going to be substantually harder than the current Giga-D event.

    I'm not convinced on the storytelling on this one. I'd really like Mechanon to chastize the heroes for the folly of attacking him in machines the first time he uses the anti-vehicle beam, otherwise it becomes solely a fight element and not an element in the story.
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  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    well considering the number of power armored heroes who will be fighting him... and I know my power armored hero has a suit designed to be mechanon proof.

    Well Dr. D designed his bots to be Mechanon proof... and we see how well that worked out. :p.
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  • spikeydoo422spikeydoo422 Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    you'd have to understand just how her armor is built. theres no completed circuits in it, and its not run by onboard computers. it literally operates as an extension of her body, and is completely non functional when she is not inside to use it.

    also, according to the books, the mega Ds would not be being "liberated" as they are in CO.

    they only did that here to make the fight cooler.

    OMG, Gradii, you even Godmod in the forums. SMH.
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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited September 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    also, according to the books, the mega Ds would not be being "liberated" as they are in CO.
    ^This.

    Besides, do not expect bosses suddely gimping only one kind of frameworks like Technology because the balance reason.

    So in the end Mechanon gloating how much power he has over vehicles but being unable to disable even a wrist bolter could only cause laugh over CO continuity.

    It was put into the game for balance reason and there's no point in doing anything more with it.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    it literally operates as an extension of her body, and is completely non functional when she is not inside to use it.

    Isn't that the basis of power armor?
    It's a bit like a car. Cars can't operate by themselves? Right?
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    Isn't that the basis of power armor?
    It's a bit like a car. Cars can't operate by themselves? Right?
    ...

    Well.....

    Could be a google PA build.
  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Bug/problem: Plasma beam maintains all stacks of plasma shear currently on target, regardless of source. (This is behind a lot of the problems with damage immunity for the event, BTW).

    Suggested fixes:

    Either
    • Cap shear stacks at 50 (stacks over 50 don't do anything, anyways)
    • Make plasma beam only maintain its own shear stacks
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jimhsua wrote: »
    Either
    • Cap shear stacks at 50 (stacks over 50 don't do anything, anyways)
    • Make plasma beam only maintain its own shear stacks
    Pretty much all stacking buffs have a per-user cap, it's not clear that they can do the first. However, they could redesign it to have a smaller number of more significant stacks.
  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Yup, it's all brokey. Might as well just remove it. I mean, it would be less effort/headache than all this anti-vehicle special mechanics blah blah blah, right? Let's stop dancing around the issue...and just set it on fire already. :wink:

    TL:DR: Less fancy work arounds, more removing plasma sheer from the game(plasma beam is pretty much fine after this IMO). :cool:

    BTW, to remain more on topic...

    Dear Cryptic North,
    Would you please explain to us how you see the PTS process working in regards to costume set testing? Do you plan to catch things only before they go live? Some things shortly after they go live? Is it pretty much doomed once it hits live except for rare exceptions? I'm asking because there have been some issues with the things released this year and a proper timeframe/window/insight into the thought process would let us know the best way/times to gather/present the information and get these things repaired.

    Thanks,
    Cross.
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,629 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Lets not blame Plasma Beam for an issue that has existed in the game longer than vehicles had been around. Fix the God Mode bug.

    If Cryptic doesn't fix the initial problem and just hurt newer things based on ignoring older issues, it puts a damper on anything new they make. Its just going to come back in the future. Fix the SOURCE of the problem and the symptoms will go away.

    Cryptic, if you want to keep going with developing raid like events you need to resolve this issue. Its crucial.
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I don't really have a dog in this anymore. Everything I stated would happen already did yesterday so I'm done. However...

    For those of you against removing plasma sheer you need to understand why people like Panta and Cross are saying that as opposed to simply capping the stacks. The stacks on a target are, from what I understand of the devs explanations to us , capped per user and not per target. Ergo, they can't simply cap the number of stacks that the target has on it, they have to cap the number of stacks that a player can apply (so in this case the cap, without removing the effect, would be one stack per player making 100 total on target at best).

    One reason the suggestion to just remove it keeps coming up is because of the limited dev time here and the simplicity of the "fix". Removing the effect from the power is a modification to a single power. Changing how caps work is a modification to an entire system within the game engine. This is my understanding of the issue at this point.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Is it intended pseudosummons (straving run, ebon rift, firesnake, etc) are much more effective against mechanon (and potentionally other overleveled targets?) than other attacks?
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  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    If a simple brainless fix with absolutely no effect on balance is desired:

    - Cap stacks at 5 per player.
    - Make stacks apply 5x as less frequently.
    - Make each stack do 5x more. Including scaling the maximum effect to 10.

    To make this even more effective, slow the tick rate on all PB effects (including PB) to 0.5s and double the damage.

    Again, zero-impact as far as balance, but the server will probably thank you for it.
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Bug: It's not too late to mention that Lightning Reflexes in Zero G environment not only keeps dodging passively, negating any dodge buffs (Like Thundering Kicks & Escalating reflexes) it also hampers movement when it does Dodge, which is excruciating playing as a Melee, especially fighting Mechanon Mk41.
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,629 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Biosteel Regeneration's actual healing per tick was reduced along with the times it would tick per second. It was granting 2 per tick at R6 before the patch and now it only grants 1 per tick. The number of ticks been reduced is working properly but the amount of regen is reduced on top of it.

    gradii wrote: »
    other than things becoming immune when enough plasma stacks are on them, I've never seen or heard of a "god mode" bug.

    Never once seen a player who couldn't be killed somehow.

    That's because it was kept in secret from the general public to prevent people from exploiting and trolling.
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 776 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    BUG: Mechanon can be turned into a teddy, and then knocked into a place where you cannot touch him, breaking the event. Please fix it so experimental blaster cannot teddy powerful mobs like this.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    nbkxs wrote: »
    BUG: Mechanon can be turned into a teddy, and then knocked into a place where you cannot touch him, breaking the event. Please fix it so experimental blaster cannot teddy powerful mobs like this.

    This really should have been fixed a long time ago, imo. I get that Teddyfication is a fun effect, but being able to completely affect bosses/cosmics the same way it affects a lowly henchman is simply ludicrous. It can break some encounters, and it just has no place when trying to take the lore or even just the basic threat level seriously.
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  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Ok, let's see how briefly I can be and yet still cover all the bases.

    Gradii Post 86: See Kenpo Post 88. Also, I would try to refrain from using "obsession" and "ridiculous" in posts. Although, thanks for the giggle. :biggrin:

    Buxom Post 87: While it is part of the problem behind this conversation I must say you are correct about this aspect. The bug should be repaired. If sheer stacking were not so OP then you would not run into people in the OM who refuse to stop using it despite people warning them repeatedly(not me, other people usually) when the stacks start to approach dangerous levels. Some people would prefer to fail the OM by bugging it than give up their 1 attack. Consider that for a momment. I'll be using my PBR Alien in the mean time...pew pew pew.

    Kenpo Post 88: You get it. It's a simple matter or K.I.S.S.

    Aiqi Post 89: More please?

    Gradii Post 90: Please see Buxom Post 93. He is right. There are things we discover that we dare not ever use or share with the playerbase. They are just reported to the right channels and we sit quietly hoping they're repaired before they're discovered because such knowledge is far more harm to the game than the benefit a few people could gain from them.

    jimhsua Post 91: See Kenpo Post 88. Your proposal has more than 1 step and therefore is more complex and requires more work for what would, IMO, be a possible solution.

    rtma Post 92: IMO it's never too late to post relevant stuff like this until someone higher ranking than both of us says so. I will see if I can find the time this weekend to attempt to duplicate your results.

    nbkxs Post 94: If you are referring to him being knocked into the tunnel underneath the walkway then I can confirm your results as I have observed them as well.

    Also, to add to this, I have seen him get stuck on the Hot Dog Cart which then acts as LOS breaking cover for his entire body. The reproduction/work-around/solution for this is to spin around him until you are able to attack BUT all he has to do is move like an inch and he's essentially on the other side of the cart and then blocking you again.

    Also, it's is possible(and happens alot in my observations) for the Mega-Ds/Mechanon to aggro a Champion and then start walking into them so that they "bump up." When this bump is combined with a forward cone attack it will become a full circle AE because the mob is aiming DOWN therefore turning < into O. This is also tied to a bug I believe is from before launch as it has been observed and reported that Teliosarus could do this with Radiation Breath back as early as 2009. I believe it also has something to do with the mob/pet AI "Personal Space" parameters(I am making up a name for that, call it what you like) which is observable by summoning pets or running the VBA Mission "All That is Unholy." Upon entering the church the 2 Champions with you will do everything in their power to stand on the exact same spot you are. So, in theory, this might be repairable if the Personal Space Parameters on Mob/NPC/Pet were repaired...or I don't know what I'm talking about entirely and it's much more work.

    flowcyto Post 95: Teddification is cool. IMO, this is part of a larger issue/bug/problem/downright annoyance that has existed for quite some time, Hit Box Modification. IMO the solutions to this issue would be.

    -Remove all back items from Hitboxes. This way the thing with the giant wings doesn't make it so I can't target anything else in a 2 mile radius(exaggeration for comedic effect just to be clear).

    -Cut Hitbox of all pets by 50%. This way they do not get in the way for targetting other things.

    -All size changing effects to not adjust the size of the hitbox. This would fix Mechanon's "problem" imo as well as others.

    -Allow Magnifiers/Shrinkers to work in all combat/noncombat situations(and the playerbase would likely rejoice) BUT, again, do not adjust the size of the hitboxes for these effects. This would keep tiny toons from being untargetable and giant toons from making it so I can't get down a hallway around them.

    Edit: I made the buggy stuff red just in case Lordgar or someone was in the neighborhood.
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  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    This really should have been fixed a long time ago, imo. I get that Teddyfication is a fun effect, but being able to completely affect bosses/cosmics the same way it affects a lowly henchman is simply ludicrous. It can break some encounters, and it just has no place when trying to take the lore or even just the basic threat level seriously.

    This happened at least three times for me. At first I thought Mechanon had gone "invisible". Others in zone informed me what had really happened. I'm going to assume that means it's happening on a regular enough basis.

    Can it just be made that Cosmic level entities are immune to Teddification. I agree that this an effect that sort of kills the seriousness of the encounter. There's no reason that a threating cosmic enemy should be able to be transformed into a Teddy Bear. :frown:
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    crosschan wrote: »
    -All size changing effects to not adjust the size of the hitbox. This would fix Mechanon's "problem" imo as well as others.

    That would introduce its own problems. It could get tricky to actually select a target like mechanon, if he is surrounded by a lot of melee players. Also you'd need to stay oddly close to an arbitrary part of his body to be able to attack. And having 20 melee players all getting close enough to a player sized hitbox to be able to attack could be tricky.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited September 2014
    Well, Mechanon being affected by teddyfication and knockbacks is probably an oversight.

    It makes a perfect sense for bosses to not be affected by both.

    Looks like a bug, really.

    Cosmics should not be vulnerable to these effects. Both teddy bear and knocks.

    Teddyfication is another issue on its own. Considering how many PUG encounters are ingame, it can break encounters easily. Too many players who don't know that at this effect they shoud stop using knocks. The effect itself is also random, so that's another thing.

    I'd say Experimental Blaster also needs to be changed. Teddy bear effect should be moved to its own 1 or 2 pts advantage, separated from the base power.
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 776 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Edited out for now.

    XS
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