Overhauling my main

jimhsua

Hi all,

Since all the changes that have taken place over the past couple of months, and also learning more about this game in two months than, well, I've ever done in 2 years, I think it's probably time to optimize my main. Will be burning G for this retcon, probably.

Currently:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Beastial

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Savage
Level 6: Martial Focus
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Paramilitary Training
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Covert Ops Training

Powers:
Level 1: Bestial Fury
Level 1: Shred (Penetrating Strikes)
Level 6: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Pounce
Level 11: Supernatural Power
Level 14: Resurgence
Level 17: Massacre (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 23: Aggressor (Rank 2)
Level 26: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Laser Knight)
Level 29: Devour Essence (Phlebotomist, Crippling Challenge)
Level 32: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Unleashed Rage
Level 38: Shuriken Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3, Strong Arm)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Flight (Rank 2)

Specializations:
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Upper Hand (2/3)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

Equip: Justice Precision (2x CON, 2x Gamblers), Justice Tights (1x CON, 1x STR, 2x Impact), Justice Mask (2x CON, 2x Impact). Armadillo Secondaries.

Immediate goals:
- Make a Frosty viable tank while touching as little powers as possible.
- Optionally, improve survivability of the dual passive build (WoTW).

Tear 'er up. I'll be pretty, *ahem*, flexible with theme here.

flowcyto

A bestial claws character throwing shurikens? hmm :v

The build itself is good for a bestial SN style toon, though the adv points are a bit spread thin in areas (like no rank in the AD, unranked UR).

By 'Frosty viable', ya mean w/o Support help? Cause that's gonna be tough. You only have one AD that you'll have to save for Ice Prisons (which will likely happen to you as a melee tank vs. him). MD is, ofc, the best cd to use when imprisoned, but Resurgence timed right also can work *if dps can get you out fast enough. But I prob wouldn't go in w/ just one AD as an FF (ATs get no choice). Laser Knight will also drop when imprisoned, so be careful. Def make a macro/keybind to call for help when imprisoned.

Problem is, if Regen can struggle vs. Frosty, it can still be made cake-walk everywhere else. A DE build w/ it can def make easy work of Gravi, provided knock rng doesn't crap on you or you get held in a yellow bubble.

Upper Hand :x

Enrage's ER adv prob won't be of much help here if ur mostly using DE in tight spots, since it only procs on knocks, and that's just pounce and massacre atm. Then again, I dunno how often ya plan on using the latter two.

ES/NM would be the better AO not just for dps, but cause the crit heals from DE are determined when the hit that coincides w/ the tick crits. Therefore, for more crit healing from DE, ya basically can boost (single-target) attack crit%.


Its looks pretty solid overall for most content. Up to you how much Rec ya want vs. other stats. W/ SP EU I find that Rec/End gearing thing that's kinda upto 'feel'.

Go get em, bestial ninja vampire cybernetically enhanced tiger..!

jimhsua

Yep, as I said, I haven't updated this build in, what, 6 months? (e.g. Upper Hand ... yea). Definitely before F&I.

As far as "frosty viable", I had in mind respeccing to Defiance/Invuln (have another LR toon in the works) to depend less specifically on a healer w/ AoRP, but then some reshuffling would be needed for the heals.

kaiserin

My current build, it's very similar in theme.

One change I'd definitely make to the build is dropping resurgence for a more reliable heal.

jimhsua

kaizerin wrote: »

My current build, it's very similar in theme.

One change I'd definitely make to the build is dropping resurgence for a more reliable heal.

I thought you'd reply. Thanks for that link. Flashfire ... interesting.

About resurgence ... yea. Conviction is the most obvious choice; maybe BCR on top of that. On the other hand, I can deploy an elixir if needed, in which case I'll probably pick up Ascension instead of Aggressor. So many choices...

kaiserin

Oh, since you have justice gear I'd drop rec for end, it'll work a little smoother with supernatural power.

selphea

If I ever did a non-LR Supernatural Frosty tank, it would probably look like this:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Beastial

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Savage
Level 6: Martial Focus
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Paramilitary Training
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Covert Ops Training

Powers:
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Devour Essence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique)
Level 8: Pounce
Level 11: Compassion
Level 14: Masterful Dodge
Level 17: Ego Surge (Rank 2, Nimble Mind)
Level 20: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Voracious Darkness)
Level 23: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Overdrive
Level 29: Ice Barrier (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Shadow of Doubt (Crippling Challenge)
Level 35: Ascension (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Flight

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

It's very cookie cutter though! :x

Note: Use the 37 Rec/338 HP and 37 Rec/CD Redux secondaries.

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jimhsua

Mind explaining the reasoning for end? I thought I understood how SP works, but apparently not... Thanks.

selphea

jimhsua wrote: »

Mind explaining the reasoning for end? I thought I understood how SP works, but apparently not... Thanks.

It kicks in at 15% so high End will raise the 15% threshold. Suppose you have 368 Max Energy, SN Power should kick in at 55 energy or below so it's a healthy margin to account for laggy returns.

pantagruel01

jimhsua wrote: »

Mind explaining the reasoning for end? I thought I understood how SP works, but apparently not... Thanks.

There are two situations where SP can stall out: you reduce your energy to zero, SP kicks in, but the energy return from SP is less than the tap energy of the power you're using, or you reduce your energy to a value that is greater than 15% of your total energy but less than the tap energy of the power you want to use.

The first situation can only occur with Defile (base cost 50); Massacre (34) and Devour Essence (21) never hit it. The second situation can occur fairly easily with Massacre, unless you have a lot of cost reduction or your total energy is 230+ (or some combination).

This probably matters less for Massacre because you're always using at energy builder range anyway, but Defile can be used beyond energy builder range.

jimhsua

pantagruel01 wrote: »

There are two situations where SP can stall out: you reduce your energy to zero, SP kicks in, but the energy return from SP is less than the tap energy of the power you're using, or you reduce your energy to a value that is greater than 15% of your total energy but less than the tap energy of the power you want to use.

The first situation can only occur with Defile (base cost 50); Massacre (34) and Devour Essence (21) never hit it. The second situation can occur fairly easily with Massacre, unless you have a lot of cost reduction or your total energy is 230+ (or some combination).

That makes sense (the latter scenario especially), thank you. I do notice some stalls with massacre with REC as a stat.

I assume gearing is still CON/STR, with no REC or END? And it would make sense to get some cost reduction somewhere, if only for conviction?

pantagruel01

jimhsua wrote: »

I assume gearing is still CON/STR, with no REC or END? And it would make sense to get some cost reduction somewhere, if only for conviction?

I'd test it out, or ask Kaiserin; I've never done a massacre-based build (pure devour essence is very straightforward and can be done without end or rec).

jimhsua

What makes testing tanking builds like these hard is the absence of any content (except rampages) that actually requires this level of tanking. Teleiosaurus on PTS is probably closest, but even she doesn't provide enough stress for a tank (I'm perfectly comfortable with her with regen+DE). Elite lairs are good, but kind of skew the numbers towards Invuln. Maybe I'll have to hop into Resistance on PTS...

kaiserin

jimhsua wrote: »

That makes sense (the latter scenario especially), thank you. I do notice some stalls with massacre with REC as a stat.

I assume gearing is still CON/STR, with no REC or END? And it would make sense to get some cost reduction somewhere, if only for conviction?

Outside of talents, I have nothing sunk into end. I have a turbo button set up on my controller and just holding that down I have 0 stalls on massacre, it can just keep on trucking. I do have my strength quite high as well so I get a decent energy return from enrage.

I am wearing the Vigilante cost reduction secondary utility, as well as having the physical peak spec. Most of that is to cut the cost on Unleashed Rage.

As for tanking, you could get up to the point in resistance where you fight the shadow colossus, that's a decent stress test.

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selphea

jimhsua wrote: »

What makes testing tanking builds like these hard is the absence of any content (except rampages) that actually requires this level of tanking. Teleiosaurus on PTS is probably closest, but even she doesn't provide enough stress for a tank (I'm perfectly comfortable with her with regen+DE). Elite lairs are good, but kind of skew the numbers towards Invuln. Maybe I'll have to hop into Resistance on PTS...

Try Shadow Colossi in Resistance.

Edit: Whoops covered by Kaiserin

monsterdaddy

If I recall Bestial's costume (and of course the name) the theme is more Bestial than Supernatural. I'd go with Int as final SS and buy a Hospitable Eyepiece as your sole Int buff from gear and take MSA as unlock. Cooldown, cost benefit plus more reliable energy for Unleashed Rage.

In my tests I found Shred w/Warden Mastery to be close to Massacre w/Shred (for Shredded buff) in dps but much cheaper on energy, better defense from grit and more aggro w/CC.

For Frosty tanking keep in mind you should keep cooldown on MD fairly low which is why I like Int SS. LR, Defiance are both great choices especially if you have Necrullitic plus Ascension R3.

You've seen Elle the Ghost Blade's tank 100% dodge build with Shred as main attack. Could tweak that one to fit your tastes. Still tanky even if not 100% dodge.

jimhsua

Getting back to this thread. Here's my plan for extensive PTS testing:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Savage
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Bodybuilder
Level 12: Boundless Reserves
Level 15: Paramilitary Training
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Quick Recovery

Powers:
Level 1: Bestial Fury
Level 1: Shred (Penetrating Strikes, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Supernatural Power
Level 8: Pounce
Level 11: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 17: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 20: Massacre (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Masterful Dodge
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Ascension
Level 32: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Laser Knight)
Level 38: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35:

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

The powerlist is purposely ordered to make the most expected retconned powers cheapest. Gearing: mentioned before. I'll also throw in an elixir and an NPG in there.

flowcyto

I'd prob trade R2 in Cyclone for Strong Arm and CS- but that's mostly just to pick up CS as a tank. Could also try to find a way to get ES/NM to R2.

What is ur planned rotation? Shred for CirpC, bleed, and Shredded, but mostly Massacre spam?

jimhsua

flowcyto wrote: »

I'd prob trade R2 in Cyclone for Strong Arm and CS- but that's mostly just to pick up CS as a tank. Could also try to find a way to get ES/NM to R2.

I don't recall Vicious Cyclone (or cyclones in particular) having Strong Arm ... . Though, might try to fit CS in there anyways.

flowcyto wrote: »

What is ur planned rotation? Shred for CirpC, bleed, and Shredded, but mostly Massacre spam?

Basically? That should maintain adequate threat, but I'll have to test.

flowcyto

yeah I was thinking of Shuriken Storm, my bad. CS would be nice, but Cyclone is more for corralling anyways- that one's up to you.

3 main variants of Bestial SN I have found to work well: Shred spam w/ Warden-related boosts, Shredded -> Massacre spam, and alternating between Shred and Massacre but using Brawler's Setup. All are strong dps/threat, but which one ya settle on may change ur build a bit.


Edit:
Just basic testing some rotations w/ my Savage instead of my FFs, since I'm tired as all get out to configure the latter. All R3 attacks (sans Shred, at R2 + PS) and 3.0-3.5 min tests. Ofc, not fully analogous to a FF Bestial build (possibly using Vindicator over Brawler w/o Setup, and having an AO since I took Resurgence) but should give some general ideas:

1x Shred + 2x DE maintains: 2745 dps (Str Mastery + 2/3 Slaughter + 3/3 Fort Gear; avg ~2-3x bleed)
1x Shred + 2-4x Massacres: 2950 dps (Str Mastery + 2/3 Slaughter + 3/3 Fort Gear; 5x bleed)
1x Shred + 2-4x Massacres: 2990 dps (Warden mastery + 3/3 Slaughter + 2/2 Setup + 2/3 Fort Gear; 5x bleed)
1-2x Shred + 1x Massacre: 2870 dps (Warden mastery + 3/3 Slaughter + 2/2 Setup + 2/3 Fort gear; 5x bleed)
Shred spam: 2520 dps (Warden mastery + 3/3 Slaughter + 2/3 Fort Gear; 5x bleed)

.. Heavy massacre favoring use of Enrage, heavy shred favoring AotB (since the AT uses AotB, I had to use Shred at least periodically regardless).

There was some more energy 'stuttering' w/ the massacre-heavy ones and Supernatural Power, but gearing for more Rec/End could adjust that (105 Rec, 10 End used here). Also, any extra points not using Setup in Brawler could have went to Flanking or w/e, for potentially more dps for the options not using Setup.

(also, getting 9.5k massacres on a hybrid w/ a defense passive and mid-level gear is just silly- I mean, its a 1.5 sec cast XD My Impulse would piss his pants at seeing those sort of dps numbers, even w/ KM slotted)

jimhsua

flowcyto wrote: »

yeah I was thinking of Shuriken Storm, my bad. CS would be nice, but Cyclone is more for corralling anyways- that one's up to you.

3 main variants of Bestial SN I have found to work well: Shred spam w/ Warden-related boosts, Shredded -> Massacre spam, and alternating between Shred and Massacre but using Brawler's Setup. All are strong dps/threat, but which one ya settle on may change ur build a bit.


Edit:
Just basic testing some rotations w/ my Savage instead of my FFs, since I'm tired as all get out to configure the latter. All R3 attacks (sans Shred, at R2 + PS) and 3.0-3.5 min tests. Ofc, not fully analogous to a FF Bestial build (possibly using Vindicator over Brawler w/o Setup, and having an AO since I took Resurgence) but should give some general ideas:

1x Shred + 2x DE maintains: 2745 dps (Str Mastery + 2/3 Slaughter + 3/3 Fort Gear; avg ~2-3x bleed)
1x Shred + 2-4x Massacres: 2950 dps (Str Mastery + 2/3 Slaughter + 3/3 Fort Gear; 5x bleed)
1x Shred + 2-4x Massacres: 2990 dps (Warden mastery + 3/3 Slaughter + 2/2 Setup + 2/3 Fort Gear; 5x bleed)
1-2x Shred + 1x Massacre: 2870 dps (Warden mastery + 3/3 Slaughter + 2/2 Setup + 2/3 Fort gear; 5x bleed)
Shred spam: 2520 dps (Warden mastery + 3/3 Slaughter + 2/3 Fort Gear; 5x bleed)

.. Heavy massacre favoring use of Enrage, heavy shred favoring AotB (since the AT uses AotB, I had to use Shred at least periodically regardless).

There was some more energy 'stuttering' w/ the massacre-heavy ones and Supernatural Power, but gearing for more Rec/End could adjust that (105 Rec, 10 End used here). Also, any extra points not using Setup in Brawler could have went to Flanking or w/e, for potentially more dps for the options not using Setup.

(also, getting 9.5k massacres on a hybrid w/ a defense passive and mid-level gear is just silly- I mean, its a 1.5 sec cast XD My Impulse would piss his pants at seeing those sort of dps numbers, even w/ KM slotted)

Thank you, that pretty much confirms my expectations. I thought I saw you with a savage AT of some sort on my list yesterday night. My reasoning for cyclone is also a) supernatural power - I occasionally run out w/ shuriken storm, b) recolorable to get rid of the "infernal" theme, unlike LOLZ epidemic spam, and most importantly c) 2nd (well, 3rd) source of enrage procs.

Interesting that REC isn't performing how it should (given that it's a SSS of the Savage AT) in relation to massacre, but not unexpected.

Ideally I'd like to try taking both DE and massacre, but a) not enough adv points or power points to make it worth it, and b) I can most likely make up the healing from several other sources, endorphin rush included. I think after all that math, I have a pretty good idea of exactly how many HPS I'll require, but as always, live testing...

kaiserin

flowcyto wrote: »

...

I've seen people claim Shred and massacre do similar damage, and your above numbers would suggest that. However I've never been able to replicate it (I just ran a test where Shred spam came out to 2290 dps, and Massacre spam came to 3912, not particularly close).



I usually wind up using Vicious Cyclone or Venomous Breath for an aoe, sometimes Hand Clap as that on demand stun is handy.

pantagruel01

kaizerin wrote: »

I've seen people claim Shred and massacre do similar damage, and your above numbers would suggest that. However I've never been able to replicate it

Power activation delay might be at blame there, it really hits all the combo powers.

flowcyto

Thank you, that pretty much confirms my expectations. I thought I saw you with a savage AT of some sort on my list yesterday night. My reasoning for cyclone is also a) supernatural power - I occasionally run out w/ shuriken storm, b) recolorable to get rid of the "infernal" theme, unlike LOLZ epidemic spam, and most importantly c) 2nd (well, 3rd) source of enrage procs.

Interesting that REC isn't performing how it should (given that it's a SSS of the Savage AT) in relation to massacre, but not unexpected.

Yup, hopped on for that before sleep. As far as Rec- I didn't have much Rec above the base, since it was an SS for the AT. Mixing in more End would prob yield better results for Massacre, but the AT isn't really setup w/ Massacre spam in mind either.

Ideally I'd like to try taking both DE and massacre, but a) not enough adv points or power points to make it worth it, and b) I can most likely make up the healing from several other sources, endorphin rush included. I think after all that math, I have a pretty good idea of exactly how many HPS I'll require, but as always, live testing...

DE is really good, but its not irreplaceable. If ya truly wanted to build around DE spam you'd need to build quite differently anyways. W/ just a usual Bestial SN setup, it strikes me as better to just take the special adv w/ it and only use it for patch up after taking nasty strings of burst dmg, but there are other means to counter burst dmg as an FF anyways.

kaizerin wrote: »

I've seen people claim Shred and massacre do similar damage, and your above numbers would suggest that. However I've never been able to replicate it (I just ran a test where Shred spam came out to 2290 dps, and Massacre spam came to 3912, not particularly close).

Well, keep in mind my Shred tests were w/ 3/3 Slaughter and Warden Mastery, which favors the combo more than anything ya can do w/ Massacre as far as spec trees, so its kinda comparing the best Shred could offer vs. avg or sub-optimal a build for Massacre.

AotB over Enrage on the AT already disfavors using Massacre heavily since it can create more energy 'stuttering' w/ SP, even though I didn't use that many between Shreds here. W/o much energy stuttering, and w/o combo boosts, I can see how Massacre could pull ahead quite a bit. Ideally it'd prob be better to use R2 Shred w/ PS only for 5x bleed, and then use a diff R3 combo until ya need to refresh bleed/shredded- if ya wanted to keep the Warden-combo route at least.


Oh, and just for the fun of it: comparing the Savage tests to analogous ones on my Impulse, who is at similar gear lvl..

W/ KM and End Mastery taken, FC charges w/ Force Blast (FB) filler was ~1100 dps, mostly cause the energy form disable would get refreshed by certain attacks like the end builder, causing KM to be down much longer than it should have (<- awful bug.. at least I hope its a bug).

Just spamming charged FB w/ KM up (no energy form cancel) was 1290 dps (no end building needed w/ End Mastery- unlike w/ Overseer_Guardian mastery). Adding Grav Polarity barely did anything since it was time out casting Force Eruption (which the target wasn't in-range for) and the dmg was additive.

Adding in Force Detonation roughly on cd created a bit more energy issues, but gave me 1320 dps. Using Force Geyser instead was ~1300 dps.

Using PFF instead of KM, charging FC w/ the EB turned on gave me ~1075 dps; FB spam w/ PFF was 935 dps.


So yeah, ~1.3k dps at best vs. ~3k dps (that could possibly be higher tuning around Massacre and Flanking and/or Aggressor). Both hybrid ATs w/ similar gear levels- one a dps toggle the other a dps passive. SUCH GUD BALANCE lololoooooooooo-

kaiserin

ehh...the Impulse doesn't get a damage toggle (seems odd it doesn't get to choose as it can choose a passive). It also seems to lack an active offense. I would also argue that range should do significantly less damage than melee. 1-3k seems a bit steep, but for lacking an offensive toggle I don't think it's that out of line.

Impulse does look like it could lose some attacks in favor of utility, though. The Savage is one of the more well rounded archetypes, however I'm pretty sure the impulse would beat it out in aoe, as frenzy can barely function as one.


...


Little off topic. Hope the build works well for you Jimhsua.

jimhsua

kaizerin wrote: »

ehh...the Impulse doesn't get a damage toggle (seems odd it doesn't get to choose as it can choose a passive). It also seems to lack an active offense. I would also argue that range should do significantly less damage than melee. 1-3k seems a bit steep, but for lacking an offensive toggle I don't think it's that out of line.

Impulse does look like it could lose some attacks in favor of utility, though. The Savage is one of the more well rounded archetypes, however I'm pretty sure the impulse would beat it out in aoe, as frenzy can barely function as one.


...


Little off topic. Hope the build works well for you Jimhsua.

Likewise. I'll have to catch you in game sometime; on the rare occasions I see you, you always log or zone out before I could emote. All in good fun, of course.

flowcyto

kaizerin wrote: »

ehh...the Impulse doesn't get a damage toggle (seems odd it doesn't get to choose as it can choose a passive). It also seems to lack an active offense. I would also argue that range should do significantly less damage than melee. 1-3k seems a bit steep, but for lacking an offensive toggle I don't think it's that out of line.

Impulse does look like it could lose some attacks in favor of utility, though. The Savage is one of the more well rounded archetypes, however I'm pretty sure the impulse would beat it out in aoe, as frenzy can barely function as one.

Oh yeah, ranged generally should be lower in dps than melee overall, and yeah AoE is prob the only thing that the Savage can be greatly bested in.. even by a spell like CW :x Melee cones, imo, greatly suck as the only AoE attack to work with, and I can say I'm tired of only having them as options after leveling some ATs that are like that.

Still, highlights just how big the gap can be for great synergy and strong base dps powers (Massacre + DE + Shred, Shredded, Pen Strikes, Setup, Bleed, very good SS setup for a Str-melee AT, etc) versus poor synergy or build setup and low base dps powers (a basic blast, a kit's best dps move disabling EFs, EF debuff duration bug, have to pick geyser vs. detonation but is stuck w/ force snap regardless, IDF forced as the toggle, terrible (imo) PSS and SS setup, etc).

(and yeah sorry for the OT, but.. well, I couldn't ignore that performance gap after seeing how the Savage could fare)

jimhsua

Only change so far is taking EV instead of ES, and arranging the advs likewise. Yes, I did "throw money at the problem" (from my shopping list: 2 elixirs, 1 NPG, additional Vig piece), but so far the dmg/survivability of this build is just ... scary. Cyclone works perfectly to set up UR/NPG, which demolishes pretty much any spawn. Also I don't think I'll ever lose threat with this (which was the whole point of this exercise), but will need some of the elite DPSers on to verify this. Thanks all for the thread.

Edit - Typical grab:



Tank = 97%. Cause "that's how I roll"(tm)

Edit: Also, Physical peak instead of Swole was necessary to fire UR from equilibrium, and also improves energy mgmt even more. Taking.

monsterdaddy

kaizerin wrote: »

I've seen people claim Shred and massacre do similar damage, and your above numbers would suggest that. However I've never been able to replicate it (I just ran a test where Shred spam came out to 2290 dps, and Massacre spam came to 3912, not particularly close).

Hi Kaizerin, its an energy issue with the lag on Supernatural Power plus the fact that Massacre is energy intensive.

Massacre (STR Mastery, Shred for Shredded refresh, 5 stacks Bleed, tank role) and Unleashed Rage nets me over 4K DPS but only if energy is unlimited (I used CoAP). That agrees with your testing and is much better than Shred alone w/Warden Mastery/Slaughter.

But as you know, I DPS test groups of powers and Massacre was also a major problem for energy hungry UR usage. Unless I used CoAP, the DPS fell to the level of simple Shred spam.