Considering a minor overhaul, would like some input.

williamkony

So, first things first, my build is focused around performing each of the three "trinity" roles to an acceptable degree. When I'm in the proper mode, I can tank Frosticus (with a good healer, but how many tanks DON'T need that?), I can keep a Frosticus tank alive, and my damage output is-... Well, to be fair, I don't have any particular benchmark for that. It works out well?

That said, I'm always wondering if I can make improvements, particularly in "important" content where performing well is a necessity, unlike easier content where you can get through just fine without piling a bunch of math and planning into your build.

In that regard, I'm looking to change up my damage mode substantially, and my tank mode a little bit as well.

Right now, my damage-oriented powers consist of Night Warrior, Ricochet Throw, Sonic Device, Concentration, and Strafing Run. Sonic Device triggers Wither in the Sentinel Tree, boosting the entire team's damage by 10% (my own damage, as well), but it happens very infrequently. I also occasionally dabble in PvP, but I can't put out quite enough spike damage to take down the frequent screw-killing-people-I'll-just-never-ever-die megatanks, even with 61% defense penetration.
My tank mode uses Defiance and Ebon Void. One neat thing I'm able to do is use the Sonic Device and Strafing Run weirdness to my advantage, triggering Defiance to build it ahead of time or maintain a stack when Frosticus and/or Kenina decide to take a break from attacking for twenty flippin' seconds because they're lazy and hate Defiance tanks.

What I'm considering as a change is switching Concentration for Manipulator, Sonic Device for Toxic Nanites, and Ricochet Throw for Sonic Arrow. Reasons for each:

Manipulator will let me quickly stack up ahead of time, as well as trigger more potent Stuns. It ends up being half the damage bonus of Concentration when fully stacked (which, from what I understand, actually won't be THAT huge a hit given the diminishing returns aspect). The 1-minute duration gives me far less of a headache than rushing to find an enemy with Concentration's 20 seconds, not to mention that I'll be able to refresh it or boost it by 6 via Ego Storm (which I don't currently have, but will if I make the change).

Toxic Nanites is more a choice for tank mode. Like Sonic Device, Toxic Nanites will affect me when I use it alongside Strafing Run, and that damage over time means I can very, very easily keep Defiance AND Ebon Void's Voracious Darkness going. I can tag it onto Sonic Arrow when I'm focusing on damage dealing, though it won't make a heck of a difference.

Lastly, Sonic Arrow. The damage is FAR lower than Ricochet Throw. However, it also triggers Stun with every charge, making it so I can basically keep the 10% damage boost on enemies permanently. That means 10% more damage from the entire team, even though my personal damage output drops by about 30% (according to tooltips). Not to mention, it also reduces the enemy's damage via Disorient, and that Stun can be used to great effect when I switch to Support mode. As a very specific bonus, a little over half the damage is non-physical, meaning Gravitar won't resist it with her energy form. I'm not sure how much physical resistance she has normally, though, my 61% penetration may have already been enough to bypass it.

From the tooltip testing I did earlier, my personal constant damage output drops around 30%. My alpha strike damage goes up by about 7%, assuming I have no stacks of Concentration prior, but full stacks of Manipulator. This is because I can't build up Concentration due to no PBAoEs, which I can't take since I have Palliate as a threat wipe for when I end up with the enemy's attention. Won't happen so much if my damage drops down, plus I'll be triggering Sentinel Mastery constantly. Anyway, in addition to the 7% increase, it also potentially allows me to use Shadow Strike when the enemy is stunned. The Stun lasts for around 6 seconds in damage role, would be a little longer in Hybrid, which I could switch to for PvP purposes. Just need to be able to get both a Strafing Run and the Shadow Strike in during that Stun window. "Just".

So, anyway, that's basically the deal. I'd be trading 30% of my personal dps for a 10% boost to my team, as well as a bunch of extra utility. Does that sound like it's worth it?

flowcyto

30% is a good deal to lose, and I'd be concerned if that and boosting other players by Wither caused further threat issues for you when trying to tank- since it doesn't sound like the overall dps hit matters to you as much for everything else.

Fortunately, due to F&I's high resist, defense pen and CripC/CS advs matter more for holding threat than outright base/crit dmg increases vs. them. The SR + on-next hit trick will be handy if ur using Defiance and VD, sure, and Sent Mastery and CC perks can be very nice, but again my only real concern would be w/ sustained or long-term threat gen at this point.

selphea

Sounds like you'll be ceding the ranged DPS aspect to improve your support ability. Not necessarily a bad thing but it does warrant a re-look at your priorities

How's your DPS with Sonic Arrow?

williamkony

selphea wrote: »

Sounds like you'll be ceding the ranged DPS aspect to improve your support ability. Not necessarily a bad thing but it does warrant a re-look at your priorities

How's your DPS with Sonic Arrow?

Admittedly, my DPS isn't as high as it could be, since one of my Specialization tree slots are dedicated to Sentinel. The high penetration from Intelligence is what I rely on to make my damage somewhat competitive, which I'm aware is not all that effective against most normal enemies.

Anyway, I get an average of 2278 per tapped Ricochet Throw. Going off of tooltips, I would estimate that my average damage per fully charged Sonic Arrow would be about 3718 with the tweaked build. What that comes out to in actual DPS, I'm not certain. I know that Ricochet Throw is actually closer to 1 second per tap than the 0.67s listed. Sonic Arrow is supposedly 2 seconds per charged shot, but I'm not sure how much extra time is added from animation shenanigans, and there's also Night Warrior's charge speed reduction to consider. This is all without Justice Gear, which I'm still working towards.

( As a side question, anyone know for certain whether Sonic Arrow is qualified as Single-Target or AoE in regards to Vindicator's critical rate boosts? I seemed to have a higher critical rate with the AoE boost, but the single-target boost still had chains of criticals that seemed to go past the 2.2% default critical chance. Ricochet Throw is boosted by the AoE one despite not being in the "Ranged Area Attack" category, so I can't really trust the description. )

My current build, with Ricochet Throw, also has Sonic Device in the mix every 13 seconds, which triggers Wither for a short time. Then there's Strafing Run when it becomes available, as well. The potential tweaked build would still have Strafing Run (at a lower amount of damage, but more easily usable in regards to energy), but rank 3 Sonic Device will be swapped out for rank 1 Toxic Nanites.

(Cue the posts of "your damage sucks, go away, you should be ashamed, kill yourself, you're a horrible person".)

flowcyto

williamkony wrote: »

Admittedly, my DPS isn't as high as it could be, since one of my Specialization tree slots are dedicated to Sentinel. The high penetration from Intelligence is what I rely on to make my damage somewhat competitive, which I'm aware is not all that effective against most normal enemies.

I find only hecnhman have 0% resist. Higher ranks tend to have at least ~5-10%, so Detect Invuln isn't necc always a waste on normal enemies, even if its not as good.

Besides, its trash- in a group setting its usually not a big deal anyways (at least imo)

( As a side question, anyone know for certain whether Sonic Arrow is qualified as Single-Target or AoE in regards to Vindicator's critical rate boosts? I seemed to have a higher critical rate with the AoE boost, but the single-target boost still had chains of criticals that seemed to go past the 2.2% default critical chance. Ricochet Throw is boosted by the AoE one despite not being in the "Ranged Area Attack" category, so I can't really trust the description. )

AFAIK Sonic Arrow is AoE classed, as Round Em Up procs on it too.

RT taps, last I checked, are weird and actually seem to be flagged as AoE. RT charges may be flagged as ST instead - so perhaps they messed up the flags when coding it. (source)

Nevar trust tooltips :ninja:

williamkony

flowcyto wrote: »

Nevar trust tooltips :ninja:

Aww, can I at least trust the damage and critical chance/severity tooltips for estimating damage?

selphea

williamkony wrote: »

Admittedly, my DPS isn't as high as it could be, since one of my Specialization tree slots are dedicated to Sentinel. The high penetration from Intelligence is what I rely on to make my damage somewhat competitive, which I'm aware is not all that effective against most normal enemies.

Anyway, I get an average of 2278 per tapped Ricochet Throw. Going off of tooltips, I would estimate that my average damage per fully charged Sonic Arrow would be about 3718 with the tweaked build. What that comes out to in actual DPS, I'm not certain. I know that Ricochet Throw is actually closer to 1 second per tap than the 0.67s listed. Sonic Arrow is supposedly 2 seconds per charged shot, but I'm not sure how much extra time is added from animation shenanigans, and there's also Night Warrior's charge speed reduction to consider. This is all without Justice Gear, which I'm still working towards.

( As a side question, anyone know for certain whether Sonic Arrow is qualified as Single-Target or AoE in regards to Vindicator's critical rate boosts? I seemed to have a higher critical rate with the AoE boost, but the single-target boost still had chains of criticals that seemed to go past the 2.2% default critical chance. Ricochet Throw is boosted by the AoE one despite not being in the "Ranged Area Attack" category, so I can't really trust the description. )

My current build, with Ricochet Throw, also has Sonic Device in the mix every 13 seconds, which triggers Wither for a short time. Then there's Strafing Run when it becomes available, as well. The potential tweaked build would still have Strafing Run (at a lower amount of damage, but more easily usable in regards to energy), but rank 3 Sonic Device will be swapped out for rank 1 Toxic Nanites.

(Cue the posts of "your damage sucks, go away, you should be ashamed, kill yourself, you're a horrible person".)

Honestly low DPS isn't really a big issue, especially since you're covering other parts of the trinity. Just that if you're going the support route and your DPS is low enough you might want to just go the Support DPS route and run an aura like AoPM or AoED instead of NW to buff the party's damage even further on top of what Wither is doing.

superalfgorn

Forgive me for the intrusion....

...but I remembered williamkony verstile build, and wanted to get some feedback on a 3 passives one.

The build below is a leveling build with alerts and other team content in mind.

-INT/DEX/CON were chosen for being the best all-around setup for energy/crits/survivability.

-The 3 passives are Quarry/AoPM/Invulnerability:
For the Offensive one primary INT suggests Quarry, maybe TC instead?
For the Defensive passive Invulnerability seemed the easy choice if you need to switch to tank role on the fly. Defiance would need very high CON and takes time to build up. Regeneration is probably another possibility. LR needs more dedication and PFF has a builup that makes it pointless for a quick switch in combat.
The Support passive, I'm torn between AoRP and AoPM. Given the INT primary I preferred AoPM, but I'm not so sure.

-Spec Trees: this is where I'm at a loss...
Sentinel for Wither and the Mastery plus Sentinel aura. Then? Protector for the additional HP and Resolute, but I'm not sure. Could be Guardian for the Best Defense, or Sentry for the Aura and the on-crit buffs?

-Attack Powers: the hero contept is still undefined, really, but I wanted one good single target power and one AoE power. TGM and Lead Tempest are extremely good and fit any number of concepts. You really do not need other attacks, I guess? Maybe one power for CChallenge that fits the concept?

-Defensive Powers: Conviction and MD are standard fare. Force shield could be something else, probably Ebon Void? Do I need another ADefense to occasionally tank in high level content?

-Support Powers: here I fall short a bit, most of the support is done through Specs. Redemption, could be Resurrection Serum which is probably better without advantages. Palliate is a good strong click heal, that works well with rest of the HoT (sentinel aura and mastery) and can be used on self, but works only for the emergency and not for constant healing. If I stick to the AoPM route the Support aspect is probably underwhelming?


Thoughts?


PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: MPD

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Hero
Level 6: Jack of All Trades
Level 9: Field Ops Training
Level 12: Survival Training
Level 15: Command Training
Level 18: Sniper Training
Level 21: Discipline Training

Powers:
Level 1: Gunslinger
Level 1: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Reverence)
Level 17: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Tread Softly, Challenging Strikes)
Level 23: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 26: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 29: Palliate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Thunderclap (Collateral Damage)
Level 35: Masterful Dodge
Level 38: Redemption

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Displacement Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Sentinel: Eternal Spring (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Exhausting Strikes (2/2)
Protector: Resolute (3/3)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

superalfgorn wrote: »

For the Offensive one primary INT suggests Quarry, maybe TC instead?

TC's Lock On is broken atm. I can't recommend it for any FF build.

The Support passive, I'm torn between AoRP and AoPM. Given the INT primary I preferred AoPM, but I'm not so sure.

Ya can make AoRP about as good as Defiance at 6 stacks w/ enough SS's in the Hybrid role, so it could serve dual purpose if ya want (though by not being able to use the tank role ur threat gen will be poor- You'll want Protector + Bulwark then). Its a similar concept to using AoPM for both team support and the 'dps' setup (hybrid role) along w/ a defensive passive, just to cut down the # passives to 2 instead of 3. Again, only if ya want to do that.

-Attack Powers: the hero contept is still undefined, really, but I wanted one good single target power and one AoE power. TGM and Lead Tempest are extremely good and fit any number of concepts. You really do not need other attacks, I guess? Maybe one power for CChallenge that fits the concept?

Sure, Muni is very efficient for a build that will be very tight on the spare power slots such as this one.

-Defensive Powers: Conviction and MD are standard fare. Force shield could be something else, probably Ebon Void? Do I need another ADefense to occasionally tank in high level content?

Only if ya wanna be a Frosty tank. Otherwise a 2nd AD is nice, but not really needed either. Ya can prob supplement it w/ heal packs and devices instead.

-Support Powers: here I fall short a bit, most of the support is done through Specs. Redemption, could be Resurrection Serum which is probably better without advantages. Palliate is a good strong click heal, that works well with rest of the HoT (sentinel aura and mastery) and can be used on self, but works only for the emergency and not for constant healing. If I stick to the AoPM route the Support aspect is probably underwhelming?

AoPM can still be great for support- more for the ally stat buff than anything- it will make you and the team a bit squishier over AoRP, though.

I'd prob take Iniquity as the all-purpose ally heal since it has 100ft reach, doesn't cost energy, has very high burst hps, and ya can use Conviction to heal back the dmg.

Bonus is ya could use Iniquity w/ Regen as the defensive passive and heal others in tank mode, and automatically also heal the dmg back.

Here's how a 3-passive build could work:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Presence (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Covert Ops Training
Level 9: Shrug It Off
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Diplomatic
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Negotiator

Powers:
Level 1: Gunslinger
Level 1: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Killer Instinct
Level 17: Masterful Dodge
Level 20: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Tread Softly, Challenging Strikes)
Level 23: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Shadow of Doubt (Crippling Challenge)
Level 29: Iniquity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 38: Resurrection Serum

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Displacement Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Sentinel: Caregiver (3/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
Sentinel: Genesis (1/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Protector: Resolute (2/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

Would prob get a diff gear-set for the tank role that put Ego to 70 (since it lacks Audacity or AoPM's boost) and has some Str geared too (for knock resist). Other option for knock resist is Con PSS, but that will impact ur crit/severity. DPS and Healer set can have some Dex gearing on the side instead, to take adv of Enlightened's 30% better return on it.

williamkony

Quarry's a solid choice, no need to change there if you don't want to. I used to use Quarry before switching to Night Warrior, only reason being that I liked the stealth gameplay. Quarry was actually a little bit more potent, most of the time... Though, Night Warrior's minor defense penetration helps a bit with F&I.

It looks to me like your damage mode will be all-around capable. Your tank mode will be more suited to normal Alerts while falling a bit short in F&I or, to a lesser extent, Gravitar. The support mode-... Probably won't be that potent, I'm afraid.

Damage-wise, you've got the basic stuff you need to be effective. A high-end DPS attack, good offensive passive, good Form power, Ego Surge, good stat selection. Solo, it'll be considerably more effective than mine, for sure. :P You won't be getting much out of Wither in damage mode if you keep your distance, given that only Thunderclap will activate it, and that's 15 foot range maximum.

For the tank mode... Invulnerability is a nice all-around defensive passive, and will make you nigh-unkillable in normal content like Alerts and missions. It's less effective than Defiance against single heavy hitters such as Frosticus, however. (Lightning Reflexes can also be good for big enemies like Frosticus, but you'd want to shoot for 100% dodge in that case, as the first non-dodge you get means death.)
You'll also be dealing with a tradeoff between energy and survivability in regards to your stats. If you pile on Constitution for more health, you won't have as much energy gain from Concentration, and if you put in some Intelligence to get that energy gain, you'll lose out on maximum health. Force Shield helps with the energy in multi-enemy situations, but will give far less survivability than Ebon Void, and won't help much with single targets, like the bosses at the ends of Alerts.
Lastly, with the lack of a spammable Crippling Challenge, you'll be hurting for threat generation against non-F&I bosses unless you focus more on your damage stats than on Constitution. Threat is a problem for myself, as well, admittedly. :P Thankfully, you should do fine on threat when it comes to multi-enemy Alerts due to Lead Tempest and Sentinel Aura, and F&I should work out alright so long as you're the assigned tank thanks to their high resistances making Challenging Strikes/Crippling Challenge more effective.

Support-wise... The lack of Presence as a Superstat means that ANY of the support passives are going to be giving a lot less than they could be, and won't make that large a difference for your allies. Aura of Primal Majesty is a very good passive for lower-difficulty things like Alerts. Aura of Radiant Protection won't really help much except in harder content like F&I. I, personally, went with AoRP because I wanted to be a more effective support character in that hard content, and was willing to give up the normal-Alert optimization for it. If you think you'll focus more on normal Alerts, Primal Majesty should work just fine, but again, it won't give all that much without Presence.
Palliate is a nice spike-heal, but has a terrible cooldown. Conviction's advantage isn't really going to be enough for constant upkeep of a team under fire, and Sentinel Mastery won't pick up that slack if Thunderclap's the only thing applying it, given its cooldown and low range.
The support mode may make things a little easier, but it probably won't be saving anyone except by very slim margins.
Redemption is very nice in lockout content like F&I or Cybermind, especially with its advantage. But, it won't see much use in normal Alerts where people respawn before you can even tell they've been taken down, and if you're willing to spend the money and can justify it with your concept, Become Doomlord or Become Celestial will do the same thing without spending any Power or Advantage Points, and will do so much faster than Redemption will. If Doomlord or Celestial are at all viable, you could free up that power slot for something else.

I'm in a little bit of a rush, so hopefully my rambling was coherent. XD Overall, the build would work fine in Alerts, sitting in damage mode most of the time and switching to tank mode when necessary, with support there when you need just a LITTLE bit more oomph behind your team. In Rampages and other high-end stuff, you'd most likely need to stay in damage mode to have a substantial impact. The other two will likely fall short in their intended areas when pushed to the far limits.

Quick ending question: Were you intending to gather a set of gear for each mode, or are you wanting to have one set that fits them all?

If you'd like, I can post my current build, and explain the reasoning behind each power choice, which might help to determine approaches you can take to manage an all-around build. A lot of the powers I've taken have multiple purposes that didn't occur to me until long after starting this whole endeavor. X)