Question to the Community regarding PvP

theravenforce · June 2014

Heya guys,

After the Cosmic Key event I was able to host a few days ago, I was overwhelmed by the response to the PvP Tourney part of the Cosmic Key Event and I'm wondering...

Would people be up for something similar happening on a regular basis?

I had a lot of fun hosting the event and was grateful for the donations and judges, but I'm curious to know what attracted the amount of people to the PvP part of it?

Was it the prizes? Or the rules that no devices were used? Or that there was a team aspect to it?

I'm seriously considering hosting another event like this and I'd be interested to know what drew people to it. That PvP Tourney we had, I was not expecting such a number of people which was why it was a little haphazard admittedly but I'd be happy to get some sort of proper tournament thing going for everyone who wanted to join in.

Perhaps having different tiers for "Hardcore" PvPers/ Casual PvPers/ PvE orientated Builds etc?

Thanks in advance!

Ravenforce

oobtree · June 2014

I definitely support this!

:cool:

xydaxyda · June 2014

The team aspect was one of the appealing things about it for me. I would probably go to another one.

Unknown · June 2014

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amyjia · June 2014

bluegrassbeast wrote: »

I think the hardcore/casual brackets idea is a brilliant idea.

how would this be distinguished though? By the individuals themselves? Would the judges decide on a character by character basis? Would it be distinguished by the equipment or mods they were using?

As for what attracted me to the Tournament, just the tournament itself. When I logged on that day, didn't know it was about to start, but I couldn't stay on. Would have loved to participate just to participate. Found out later there were actually prizes.:eek::redface:

xydaxyda · June 2014

Maybe by showing the judges what gear you have on? That's not a fool proof solution as you could still switch gear around before the battle starts...if you're so pathetic that you gotta cheat to win...but I doubt any of you would sink that low.

Team duels are the draw for me. There is no I in team but there is a team in Meat Shield!

oobtree · June 2014

xydaxyda wrote: »

Maybe by showing the judges what gear you have on? That's not a fool proof solution as you could still switch gear around before the battle starts...if you're so pathetic that you gotta cheat to win...but I doubt any of you would sink that low.

Team duels are the draw for me. There is no I in team but there is a team in Meat Shield!

Hmm, I don't think anyone's gear has anything to do with anything.

Devices are not gear and the only 1 gear item I would not allow for the tournament is the "Crybaby Grenade" because it boosts stealth for stealth users and is an advantage equally advantageous to any good Device.

Much like with the last Tournament, it should include a judge that knows exactly what Device usage looks like so that they can then disqualify the team for using the Device. Worked just fine with the last tournament :cool:

xydaxyda · June 2014

I'm not saying what should or shouldn't be allowed, I was just offering that as a suggestion for helping to determine brackets if brackets were a thing what was being used...kinda like a weight class in boxing or some such.

mrhinkypunk · June 2014

I missed the last one as I haven't been on CO recently but I'd love to go to any future events. If I don't appear to be on CO regularly you may just have to put a post in the hero games forums the day before or something. But sorry for missing the last one, would of gone to it if I knew it was on. :x

The thing is for a PvP tournament to truly be popular you need people to be there. The more people who turn up the more people will turn up. It's the same case in PvP anywhere, people like to see variation and new people PvP is actually very good for meeting people and getting to know people IMO.

Yeah I agree with malware that you would want to disallow cry baby grenade. Gear doesn't mean too much of a difference compare to spammable impossible to see stealth.

oobtree · June 2014

Raven, if you can plan this stuff to happen on a Friday or Sunday I would likely be able to judge again and make sure no one uses devices. I had fun doing that last time, also, it allows me to record multiple fights so everyone can be "youtube famous" :biggrin:

Usually my Saturday nights are reserved for living a life and being a human

Unknown · June 2014

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brfabeiras · June 2014

@theravenforce,

Not saying i'm an expert PVPer (just 3 months doing so, and already stoped) but the "hardcore"/"casual" tag could be done by looking the SG that the player belongs. Callitrix, Dark Future, Fate, Altered Egos, Heroes of Darkness, Spectre are moderate-to-hardcore SGs (there are more SGs, but i can't remember now

).

About devices, i used to have all the "must-have" ones (used to have because i delete my pvp toon and went to the PVE RP side of the game), but never felt comfortable using then. I always dueled with no devices, this way people without it could duel in equal conditions. That said, in my humble opinion, i wouldn't allow devices in a PVP tournament (but that's just me talking haha).

Personally, I left PVP because it gets extremely boring with time (same pvp players, restricted power choices in order to min/max your build, a lot of rage, etc). And some PVP players (not all) tend to get really competitive, at the point to harass you and such.

But the PVP tournament is a really good idea and I suport it, although it has to be really good planned to avoid the uncomfortable situations I listed above.

For those wondering who I was in PVP, I played as Kisame/Fabien Vandaleur, was from Callitrix and Dark Future in my last days of PVP (not that I'm famous haha, just saying for who's curious).

And sorry for my grammar, english is not my main language

And finally, good luck creating this tournament, dunno if i can help, but in any case you can contact me in-game
by Flash Bolt@brfabio.

Take care!

oobtree · June 2014

The SG a person is in does not make that person a dedicated PvPer. For example half of Spectre members are theme built dedicated PvEers. Also, what's Fate? Never even seen that SG. Highly doubt they would be considered "hardcore PvP." My point being that you can't judge players based on the SG they belong too.

quasimojo1 · June 2014

I had once thought about making a challenge ladder web site for Champions PvP. There would be many different ladders for different rulesets.

Example rulesets might be:
1. Individual / Open (All powers/devices allowed)
2. Individual / Restricted (No devices)
3. Team / Open (All powers/devices allowed)
4. Team / Restricted (No devices)
5. Individual / AT Only
6. Team / AT Only

These are just examples. There could be any number of ladders with whatever rules people think would make sense. A match could be best two out of three duels.

The way it would work would be you'd challenge someone on the ladder and the winner would get points based upon the ranking difference (e.g. ELO ratings). The ladder rankings would then be updated when a match results are reported.

I don't think I have the time/motivation to build this right now, especially with the game in its current state. But a dedicated web app would only be necessary to automate the process. Something like this could be manually run by one or more motivated individuals who wanted to maintain the ladders on something like Google Docs.

Just some thoughts/ideas.

alexandrafreya · June 2014

VVouldn't it just be better to do it in tiers?

Tier E to Tier A

E being ATs
D being ATs that are just too good for E or something
C being vvhere FF starts
B From FFs vvho are vvinning just too much in C
A the same idea..only they are vvinning B alot :P

Anyvvay seems the best vvay to me...then it's not longer a case of arguing over vvith a build is a theme or even a PvP build just a case for...they are vvinning every battle...move them up a tier?

Alexandra

quasimojo1 · June 2014

alexandrafreya wrote: »

VVouldn't it just be better to do it in tiers?

Tier E to Tier A

E being ATs
D being ATs that are just too good for E or something
C being vvhere FF starts
B From FFs vvho are vvinning just too much in C
A the same idea..only they are vvinning B alot :P

Anyvvay seems the best vvay to me...then it's not longer a case of arguing over vvith a build is a theme or even a PvP build just a case for...they are vvinning every battle...move them up a tier?

Alexandra

I think one of the issues is that with something competitive like PvP, you want to eliminate as much arbitrary subjectivity as possible, and have clearly defined rules that everyone understands ahead of time. One advantage of a ladder system (similar to tiers if you define a tier as basically a quantile of a ladder), is that once the ladder is somewhat established, you know which participants are somewhat near you in relative skill level.

chalupaoffury · June 2014

quasimojo1 wrote: »

I think one of the issues is that with something competitive like PvP, you want to eliminate as much arbitrary subjectivity as possible, and have clearly defined rules that everyone understands ahead of time. One advantage of a ladder system (similar to tiers if you define a tier as basically a quantile of a ladder), is that once the ladder is somewhat established, you know which participants are somewhat near you in relative skill level.

This. Especially when it comes to ATs. A good pvp AT is subjective, I'm sure there's someone out there that can even make an inferno scary. That and scissors/rock/paper, AT pvp is full of it. An unleashed might seem great, but pair him against a squall and their knock resists and repels might give him a bad day.

I don't know that punishing the hardcore crowd by sticking em in their own tier is fair, if we're disabling devices than it's pretty well down to gear and build. Seems unfair to pick and choose who's allowed to play with everyone else. I doubt anyone would call Caliga a hardcore pvper, but at the same time I doubt anyone would really consider putting him in the casual crowd for long before laughing at the idea. I say let the fights speak for themselves.