Looking for feedback: survivable stealth build

tigerofcachtice

Hi guys, I'm posting my planned build as I'm fast approaching level 40, for your feedback please.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Big Game Hunter

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Acrobat
Level 9: Healthy Mind
Level 12: Coordinated
Level 15: Ascetic
Level 18: Shooter
Level 21: Academics

Powers:
Level 1: Boomerang Toss
Level 1: Ricochet Throw (Rank 2, Microelectronic Controllers)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3, Silent Running)
Level 11: Evasive Maneuvers (Sleight of Mind)
Level 14: Force Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Force Sheathe)
Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 20: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Ego Surge (Rank 2, Nimble Mind)
Level 32: Pulse Beam Rifle (Rank 2, Finite Improbability Engine)
Level 35: Rebirth
Level 38: Resurrection Serum

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Versatility)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (2/3)
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

My thinking is as follows. It's excellent for soloing mission content due to Stealth (Night Warrior + Ricochet Throw), also 5-man missions and Alerts due to survivability (Con as SS, Force Sheathe, self-heals).

I'm concerned about 1 thing in particular, but I'll await your feedback to see if I'm right. Thanks in advance.

crgmoore

This is actually looking really good and close to my own Predator themed build, there are certainly a few ideas here I'll have to consider looking into, it looks like a lot of fun.

flowcyto

Well, its a solid build overall.

Main issue is that even at r2, Ricochet Throw taps may out-dps r3 PBR maintains on single-target, and that leaves PBR being superfluous from a practical standpoint. Activation-time delay will affect RT taps more than full maintains like PBR, and if an enemy is in ur face then taps can't stack Concentration- but the numbers prob still favor RT.

Even if its better, using RT everywhere may be boring (and if you did use it like that, then I'd prob take r3, since boss dps tends to matter more at the high-end than trash mob dps), but the only easy ranged single-target alternative than can out-compete that is TGM (that is, w/o any other supporting abilities; Defile/Ebom and FC are too costly on their own, LA takes NI debuff, TKA isn't as powerful w/o TKL, Hard Frost takes Chill, Mind Opener takes TK reverb, Exp Blaster + Death Ray isn't as good and teddy-fication is annoying, Conflag is costly and takes UA, Conduit taps are good but very expensive, DoT and Pet builds require a commitment to them, etc- most everything else powerful single-target is melee). PBR is still a decent enough attack, and it may pull ahead on Gravi- but that's just cause of her stupid KM passive.

I dun see any short cd attacks to roll MSA here- ya can w/ the heals, but it may be good to have a shorter attack cd in case ya dun actually need the healing (since Conviction is costly, and BCR has the dmg penalty). Something like Force Geyser is quick & easy and also CCs. Or take Sonic Device for extra burst + a stun (longer cd, but can still work w/ the AO also being an offense cd), or maybe Gas Pellets or Strafing Run. Speaking of the AO, I'd exchange Modified Gear for Offensive Expertise to get its cd a lil lower. If ya want a power to replace, ya may not really need Rebirth since recovery packs and servitor serum are always available.

I'd prob also choose r2+3 in Athletics over Versatility, just so ur faster both in and out of combat.. but that's more of a personal pref.

tigerofcachtice

Thanks for the insight!

I'm considering those changes as we speak. I have no problem dropping Pulse Beam Rifle if it's outdistanced by Ricochet Throw even out of stealth and may take Gas Pellets or something else.

flowcyto wrote: »

...but the only easy ranged single-target alternative than can out-compete that is TGM (that is, w/o any other supporting abilities; Defile/Ebom and FC are too costly on their own, LA takes NI debuff, TKA isn't as powerful w/o TKL, Hard Frost takes Chill, Mind Opener takes TK reverb, Exp Blaster + Death Ray isn't as good and teddy-fication is annoying, Conflag is costly and takes UA, Conduit taps are good but very expensive, DoT and Pet builds require a commitment to them, etc- most everything else powerful single-target is melee). PBR is still a decent enough attack, and it may pull ahead on Gravi- but that's just cause of her stupid KM passive.

Btw, that is a great list. I know other build masters here already know this, but this is my 2nd Freeform and I actually went through that exact exercise, trying to finda good standalone single-target attack. That's good learning.

crgmoore

I wouldn't be very quick to sell PBR short here. Ricochet throw is amazing, even when not stealthed, but for my money when I need a ranged option I liked a good well damaging maintain, if it fits the concept of my build.

PBR has an insanely high bonus crit rate built into it, if I remember correctly, making it's damage actually quite comparative to TGM in my testing, as well as making it a really nasty, fun way to stack Focus stacks with FoTT, which is another thing to keep in mind.

It really all comes down to if you're happy with one ranged attack, then go with Ricochet Throw, it'll certainly fill the bill very nicely, but if you like PBR and you want to use it in the build, you wont be hampering potential damage output very much at all. PBR outdamages Assault Rifle in testing I've seen from others and can be a great attack.

Flowcyto is right though, Ricochet Throw can cover the bases for you, allowing you to slot in something else for flavor, but if the damage of the attack is your concern, then I believe that PBR can more than be competitive in that category.

And if I remember correctly, PBR allows full movement, without a self snare, the same as TGM allowing for full movement while maintaining it. Just thinking points to consider, but again, amazing advice, Flowcyto and a fun build, Tiger.

flowcyto

Well, PBR's innate crit escalation does helps its dps beyond the listed, but I don't think its enough to bridge the gap. Ofc, that rising crit can be good for builds that rely on crits to proc things as well.

PBR's 100ft range w/o lockdown is also nice.. but RT has the same thing going for it :X

tigerofcachtice wrote: »

Btw, that is a great list. I know other build masters here already know this, but this is my 2nd Freeform and I actually went through that exact exercise, trying to finda good standalone single-target attack. That's good learning.

I sometimes just blather on around here, cause I'm a build-freak- but thanks.

Most (yeah.. most) powersets have at least one strong (not necc amazing, but good enough) single-target combination or power. Since I'm on a rambling-spree and need a break from house-related work, lets make that list a bit less spotty (take it as a future reference):


Electricity: LArc + NI debuff (Thunderstrike and/or Electrocute w/ adv and/or Ball of Lightning); or Gigabolt taps (energy hog); Sparkstorm toggle can be added if up-close and ya have extra energy

Fire: Fireball w/ UA adv + Conflag (energy hog), Firesnake for the debuff

Wind: Typhoon (energy hog) + Dust Devil

Force: FC (super energy hog), Force Detonation (watch the scattering KBs, though)

Ice: Ice Blast taps w/ Hard Frost adv and Chill debuff (frost breath's adv puts it up the fastest) OR Ice Blast full-charges w/ Cold Snap's buff and a good crit rate

Archery: erm.. Straight Shot's debuff w/ adv + Snap Shotx4 is okay (or SS + Sonic Arrowx4 w/ DD adv), but not great (Archery does have great, long-range AoE, though)

Muni: TGM or AR w/ MED adv (full maintain); Rocket taps (energy hog)

Gadgeteering: RT taps or PBR maintains or Exp Blaster taps w/ Death Ray, Sonic Device and Strafing Run as burst cds; Gauntlet Chainsaw + melee setups (energy hog); AoED + tech Pet builds can also work

Power Armor: Its one strong dps tree overall.. provided ya can manage the toggles and energy- just pick a power for each of the 3 main PA slots (chest, shoulder, hand) and juggle 2-3 of them, making sure 2/3 are toggles since those can run in the background. Alternatively, Laser Sword's basic combo is strong (though costly), and Particle Smash is a decent burst cd (as is FAW)

Dual Blades: DW, Blade Tempest for cleaves

Single Blade: Caress to 5x Bleed + Embrace (or spam charged-Embrace w/ adv), Dragon's Bite

Fighting Claws: Shredded + DC, Shredded + TB

Unarmed: DU, BCF, 100Hands + GS, Rising Knee w/ FS adv for a debuff- can mix and match 'em all to varying degrees

Telekinesis: TKA + TKL; TK Blades and/or EBA to 5x leech + EBA w/ adv

Telepathy: Ego Blast w/ Mind Opener and TK reverb (+ Mental Storm and maybe Ego Sprites); DoT builds w/ lotsa CD reduction stacking (and 3-4 of the TP DoT powers + a decent filler spell)

Heavy Weapons: .. yeah similar issue to Archery.. best bet is Annihilate w/ Arc of Ruin's adv debuff running + Eruption on cd- but its a bit underwhelming (HW's short-range AoE is quite good, though)

Earth: Cave In w/ Fissure DoT (don't bother w/ stagger or melee-Earth)- like HW and Archery, its decent but not great

Might: Haymaker charges w/ Demolish/BtB's debuff (charged Mighty Kick is the next best thing in Might, but still kinda pales in comparison to Haymaker w/ its 50% knock immune bonus when charged)

Celestial: Conduit taps (big energy hog)- Illumination's debuff can help it cleave

Darkness: Ebon Ruin w/ 10% debuff & Fear +dmg advs.. and a Fear apply (shadow blast/embrace, void shift w/ adv), Summon Shadows

Sorcery: AoED + ritual summon Pet builds; Primal Storm sigils (provided they aren't destroyed); barring that, they aren't great trees for boss dps (though Skarn's spam can cripple a fair number of enemies, Hex is a decent DoT, and Eldritch Blast w/ Sorc's Whim is good on stunned/held targets)

Bestial SN: Shred w/ PS adv; Shredded + Massacre; DE

Infernal SN: Defile (energy hog, but get enough Rec/End and w/ Supernatural Power ya can pretty much spam it non-stop at lvl 40)


That's not counting cross-powerset combos or synergies (Shredded + slashing moves, Shred and/or Lariats w/ adv + Reaper's Embrace, Demolish or rising knee + crushing moves, mental storm + ego dmg, ebon ruin + paranormal dmg, Firesnake w/ fire_ice_toxic dmg builds, Spirit Reverb + Fear and paranormal dmg powers, MSA + Int and any short-cd power, and countless more)..

... or the combinations that become better w/ spec trees (like Brawler's Setup: melee combo + heavy charged melee move; or Avenger's Preemptive Strikes: tapped blast + charged ranged move; or Avenger Mastery w/ a decent crit rate for quick-cast blasts; or Warden spec+Mastery for melee combos, etc).

You'll learn and discover the more you tinker and compare tooltip/power details.

bravehoptoad

flowcyto wrote: »

Most (yeah.. most) powersets have at least one strong (not necc amazing, but good enough) single-target combination or power. Since I'm on a rambling-spree and need a break from house-related work, lets make that list a bit less spotty (take it as a future reference):

<snip>

Dang, flow, that's amazing.

Where's our Flowcyto guide to character building?

flowcyto

bravehoptoad wrote: »

Where's our Flowcyto guide to character building?

eep! I've already piled on enough 'projects' for myself related to this silly game :X I do have a somewhat related guide, of sorts, mostly writen-up.. but it needs some testing- always need MOAR TESTING!

tigerofcachtice

I was taking Ricochet Throw and Pulse Beam Rifle to the driving range and on actual missions (btw, that Stealth + Ricochet Throw is probably why I'm enjoying mission content again).

My finding was the Pulse Beam Rifle does great damage, but it's largely at the end of the maintain (whereas, say, 2 Gun Mojo does good steady damage throughout). It's also more energy efficient then I expected.

As to reasons why, I'm not sure. Maybe because this build was so naturally geared towards Crits? But then again, I reckon most people using Pulse Beam Rifle are Ranged DPS builds, so this should be normal.

Thus far, I am impressed with Pulse Beam Rifle, but I might be missing something. I took it to Rank 2 + that weird Advantage (if that Advantage is superfluous, lemme know). My current usage of PBR:

- in missions, Ricochet Throw kills mobs, PBR finishes off stragglers with a short maintain
- in Alerts, PBR full maintains on the boss, all damage at the end, apply those debuffs

My other Freeform is a Dual Pistol build with 2 Gun Mojo. My gut instinct is 2GM is still better as its damage is good throughout, whereas PBR does it at the end of the maintain, but it also applies a debuff for perhaps teamplay.

flowcyto

If you are going for just more dmg from PBR, rank3 is prob more efficient and reliable than the FIE adv.

PBR is good, but as you said it mostly comes at the end of the maintain- like LArc and AR w/ MED. It is more efficient dmg per energy than RT taps, but not as much dps overall. You can still do just fine sticking w/ PBR as ur main boss attack for looks/theme, though- going for optimal dps in all respects isn't usually that important for the vast majority of content anyways. You can def have some give in that area if you really just like using some attacks in different situations over others that could be more optimal.

tigerofcachtice

flowcyto wrote: »

It is more efficient dmg per energy than RT taps, but not as much dps overall.

Thanks for correcting me. I think that's it right there, I confused energy efficiency with actual dps. I also think PBR at its very end did achieve higher numbers than Ricochet Throw taps, but only after many ticks of inconsequential damage.

I really didn't want to set up an Excel for this, but I might have to, averaging the damage over the course of the PBR maintain and dividing by time of the maintain to check actual DPS.

---

UPDATE - turns out no need for fancy spreadsheetsmithing. Even imperfect RT taps out dps a PBR maintain quite obviously, simply because to account for PBR damage, you have to account for its low damage ticks early on. Those completely pull down the average.

SOLUTION - I got a new pistol skin from this Argent pistol device and got 2 Gun Mojo. Close enough.

flowcyto

tigerofcachtice wrote: »

I really didn't want to set up an Excel for this, but I might have to, averaging the damage over the course of the PBR maintain and dividing by time of the maintain to check actual DPS.

No need to go through that hassle when others have already :x

Ya can always spot my (now kinda out-dated) base dps chart if ya want a rough estimate, or find the one in Selphea's sig.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvnMmKme9UuIdDV3ZFhxOGtDUll5T3hmUU9sVW9BZ2c&usp=drive_web

It'll need to a complete revamp once I fully test all the 'actual' activation times in the game w/ a parser, though. Just take the calculated numbers you see there as rough estimates of a base and not as gospel.