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Forums > Home› Suggestions Box

Some Combos need a final move buff!

monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
edited June 2014 in Suggestions Box
Finishing a Viper Fangs combo adds Shredded, Thundering Kicks adds a Dodge buff. Defensive Combo procs a Defiant stack, etc.

I think Bullet Beatdown, Reaper's Caress, Blade Tempest, Laser Sword could all use a buff.

  • Bullet Beatdown's final move should add stacks of Concentration (why the hell does Two Gun Mojo have this buff instead of Bullet Beatdown???) It's really hard to find a use for Bullet Beatdown in a specialist like build if it can't add to stacks of Concentration.
  • Reaper's Caress and Blade Tempest final moves should also add Shredded or be given the option of Shred's two point Penetrating Strikes advantage.
  • Laser Sword's final move should guarantee a plasma burn stack AND refresh old stacks. We know it can be done since Particle Smash refreshes stacks.
Post edited by monsterdaddy on

Comments

  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    monsterdaddy wrote: »
    Finishing a Viper Fangs combo adds Shredded, Thundering Kicks adds a Dodge buff. Defensive Combo procs a Defiant stack, etc.

    I think Bullet Beatdown, Reaper's Caress, Blade Tempest, Laser Sword could all use a buff.

    Bullet Beatdown has stun in the combo and its attacks roots. (Roots being awfully useless is another issue entirely.)

    Blade Tempest does some strong damage in general. Its even a heavy agro getter with Challenging Strikes.

    Laser Sword is particle damage with the added benefit of its advantage. But by itself its already incredibly strong.

    These powers are fine without activating a buff of some kind simply because of the damage and effects they already apply.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    The amount of damage these powers current do is pretty irrelevant to the discussion.

    Bullet Beatdown is just a possible Stun (30% chance). Have you found a practical way to use it with Concentration form? If you have please let me know because it really doesn't matter what powers it has if Bullet Beatdown is unusable. And if you want to discuss damage, give me a situation to take Bullet Beatdown over Two Gun Mojo.

    Penetrating Strikes advantage really needs to be added to Reaper's Caress and Blade Tempest for theme. So far, it better to use Viper Fangs or Shred to get Shredded. Probably didn't matter in the beginning when Shred was a small buff but now it's huge.

    My suggestion for Laser Sword is IMHO really what should have been done when they made it into a combo and added Plasma Burn. It's a fix.
  • tditstdits Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Monster Daddy is absolutely right about Laser Sword. It needs to stack and refresh particle burn on the third hit.
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  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin
    kaiserin#0958
         Posts: 3,223 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2014
    Laser sword is fine, one of the highest dps melee abilities. Damage is relevant to the discussion if the power excels in it more than others. If it was to gain a new effect it would have to lose its damage.

    Comparing the validity of a power to an overpowered ability is not the greatest case. The op ranged powers need to be toned down, not other powers brought up.

    I don't think Bullet Ballet should grant Concentration, that's ranged damage. I think it should refresh enrage stacks on the last hit.

    I could see an advantage placed on Reapers Caress for Shredded, single target only.
    Not on Blade Tempest, though.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    I don't think Bullet Ballet should grant Concentration, that's ranged damage.
    EXACTLY!!! This is a munitions power so why wouldnt I want Concentration. BB is unique in this way. But basically I assume you dont think adding Conc is OP.

    Laser Sword may be high DPS on paper but I don't see it around much if at all. I've tried and given up on Laser Sword. I think we can agree Laser Sword has energy issues that don't make it very OP. And even in testing with unlimited energy I haven't been very impressed with the damage as its compatable not exceptional
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    monsterdaddy wrote: »
    Laser Sword may be high DPS on paper but I don't see it around much if at all. I've tried and given up on Laser Sword. I think we can agree Laser Sword has energy issues that don't make it very OP. And even in testing with unlimited energy I haven't been very impressed with the damage as its compatable not exceptional

    At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if the activation times in the tooltips for Laser Sword aren't accurate. They may be closer to 0.67sec. Something I'll have to test when I get the time.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if the activation times in the tooltips for Laser Sword aren't accurate. They may be closer to 0.67sec. Something I'll have to test when I get the time.
    Yeah, they are defintely off but I think its just due to processing time. I use a rapid fire button too. I only trust maintain ticks.

    Just recently I was testing Cleave with Adrenalin Rush that is supposed to only proc once per sec. Cleave is 0.83/0.83/1.00 but I got a tick of healing with every strike.

    This is why I like testing my builds dps over four minutes to account for energy and active offenses.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Yeah I got a script now, thanks to Aqia, but last time I manually tested Cleave I got 1-sec activation times for all of its hits too.

    Just more testing junk for the pile.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    If Bullet Beatdown were to refresh your current form, I would be down for that!
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    monsterdaddy wrote: »
    EXACTLY!!! This is a munitions power so why wouldnt I want Concentration. BB is unique in this way. But basically I assume you dont think adding Conc is OP.

    Laser Sword may be high DPS on paper but I don't see it around much if at all. I've tried and given up on Laser Sword. I think we can agree Laser Sword has energy issues that don't make it very OP. And even in testing with unlimited energy I haven't been very impressed with the damage as its compatable not exceptional

    I'm trying out a Laser Sword build now actually :P The damage is really nice. Definitely not Haymaker level, but Laser Sword + Flashfire + AoPM Hybrid seems to be outparsing Ego Weaponry + Mental Storm + Id Mastery Brawler. Primary Dex with AoPM is too squishy for me though, which doesn't help when I keep pulilng aggro in Gravitar - trying to de-squishify it now.

    I would say Laser Sword damage and energy cost is fine but it needs a good unlock. Needing to bring in Thermal Reverb feels a little too ghetto.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Some more testing on PTS reminded me why I found Laser Sword mediocre. Laser Sword lacks good damage resistance debuffs. While the Particle Acceleration buff is decent, it really jacks up the energy cost.

    I found Shred Rank 2 w/Penetrating Strikes to be close to Laser Sword Rank 3 in DPS (both with Warden Mastery). And Dragon slashing powers with Shredded (especially Claws) were better than a Warden Mastery Rank 3 Laser Sword too.

    So yeah, I tend to base my evaluation of powers on a complete build setup vs. individual powers which is why I think Bullet Beatdown needs a buff and Laser Sword could just use a fix.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    That's just the thing. Powers need to be balanced based off of an individual basis. Basing weakness of a power based on how useless it is in a combo makes the argument turned toward bias.
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Comparing two powers to one power doesn't sound very fair :p

    There's always Ego Placate, Ball Lightning w/ Triplicity, Sigils of Primal Storm or even Mental Storm to pair with Laser Sword, depending on passive.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Why wouldn't that be fair? Bullet Beatdown is downright awful to use with Concentration whereas Shred/Tiger's Bite/Reaper's Caress is superb. If every power is based on its own individual assessment then that takes away a lot of the complexity and synergies that makes the game mechanics so interesting.

    And to be certain, adding extra powers may or may not increase your overall DPS. So I wouldn't just compare say Cleave with and without Arc of Ruin's adv without tallying in the time/energy it takes to proc No Quarter.

    EDIT: @selphea, I don't think it makes sense to compare a combo of powers that have no synergy, i.e. Mental Storm and Laser Sword. Invocation of Storm Calling and Laser Sword has synergy, I've actually tried this myself and I find the extra damage good but somewhat offset by the zero DPS time to tap IoSC plus sheer inconvenience.
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,559 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but bullet beatdown doesn't count as melee? Isn't the whole point of break the trigger to turn a few hits into melee effects? Either way, you're shooting people. The fact that you punch em a few times should be irrelephant.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    chalupaoffury wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but bullet beatdown doesn't count as melee? Isn't the whole point of break the trigger to turn a few hits into melee effects? Either way, you're shooting people. The fact that you punch em a few times should be irrelephant.

    BB has 4 separate parts, and most parts have multiple hits (aside from the last one). 2 of the parts (first and third) are melee, other 2 (second and forth) are ranged. BtT makes them all flagged as melee instead of just the 2. Its good/better if you are in the melee role and/or using a melee-boosting passive.

    Baseline, it is a melee/ranged mix- not one or the other.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited June 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,559 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    a.baa-elephant-loading.jpg
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited June 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Agreed with the OP.

    And regarding dps, pretty much all the high dps melee charge attacks have some added effect besides damage too. I dont really see why they should do much higher dps than combo attacks at all.

    So I'd be for bringing combo dps in line with charge attacks for builds that get the combo specific specs (could either be a combo attack buff, or a charge attack nerf), and adding added effects on the combo attacks that are missing them.
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