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Does Justice Agility seem weak?

monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
edited May 2014 in Power Discussion
With the dodge nerf, I haven't found many reasons to take Agility over Fitness or even Legion. Fitness with 2 Impacts and a BD/AS build gives much more and Fitness with 2 Gamblers seems better too. I think Agility needs better stats but what do you guys think?
Post edited by monsterdaddy on

Comments

  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The main reason to get it would be a 100% dodge build that wants the set bonus.

    I actually use Justice Agil on Crystal because I think the EHP works out slightly better after accounting for healing. With the set bonus, both off and Def are into DRs as it were, so I didn't see much point in stacking impacts on top of that. But I will have to double check the numbers.

    But in extreme cases like an Invul build with high severity and Juggernaut, Agil should come out ahead for sure too.

    Edit: I also need to check the impact on MD without LR.
  • kazzman70kazzman70 Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I prefer Fitness with my WotW build. I can manage 50% dodge and avoidance with some help from Evasive Maneuvers, but stay over +100% defense. Personally, I'd rather have strong defense which is far more reliable than go heavily into dodge and worry about bad RNG. Dodge is just extra cushion with my build.

    I guess a lot of it depends on which dodge passive you take. I could see Lightning Reflexes users being more attracted to Agility, just because they are closer to 100% than the passive offensive alternatives.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Compared to the other superior justice defense, yes. High defense and high HP bonus? Its a lot better.

    And if you want higher dodge you better get Legion gear.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The 76 dodge and avoidance ratings are just too low for what it gives and low vs Legion alternatives.

    Inv + Agility vs. LR + Fitness in a Vindicator/BD build, it doesn't seem like much of a contest in terms of damage mitigation over time. Plus you get extra damage from the extra offense from Fitness' Impact mods.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,867 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yeah agility seems to miss the mark since Legion's still does accessory stats like dodge rating better than Justice (other problem specifically for LR is it pushes you so much into Avoidance DR that more avoidance really isn't efficient- a chest that ignores it is just better for LR). More health/defense is always good for tanks, while builds wanting more dodge should prob just use Legion.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    selphea wrote: »
    The main reason to get it would be a 100% dodge build that wants the set bonus.

    This is how I think about it too. And for a build with that it does work great.
    selphea wrote: »
    I actually use Justice Agil on Crystal because I think the EHP works out slightly better after accounting for healing. With the set bonus, both off and Def are into DRs as it were, so I didn't see much point in stacking impacts on top of that. But I will have to double check the numbers.

    But in extreme cases like an Invul build with high severity and Juggernaut, Agil should come out ahead for sure too.

    Edit: I also need to check the impact on MD without LR.

    Even if EHP is a bit better on dodge builds, the uncertainty with dodge on builds not getting close to 100% dodge chance, would make me choose defense gear. The defense stat does not have a DR so stacking works nice, and adds to some offense too.

    When MD is up you will probably not die anyway, so I think the added EHP you have during MD is of much less worth than your EHP without MD.
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    aiqa wrote: »
    Even if EHP is a bit better on dodge builds, the uncertainty with dodge on builds not getting close to 100% dodge chance, would make me choose defense gear. The defense stat does not have a DR so stacking works nice, and adds to some offense too.

    The defense stat may not really have DR - it kind of does but quite gentle, but the Damage Resistance stat that it ends up giving does, and quite steeply at that.

    I don't have access to PTS to test the two pieces anymore but I think the difference between Agil + Impact + Gambler vs. Fitness + Impact + Impact was 12% Damage Resistance from Defense (57% -> 69%) and 1% Damage from Offense.

    That works out to around 7% real non-dodge mitigation and 0.5% real damage, but at a loss of ~10% net mitigation from dodge. But yes, it's dependent on RNG. At the point in time when I was buying my Justice gear, I felt 22% chance was high enough to make a difference though.

    That's on a Primary Int character so Damage Resistance isn't pushed as deep as Primary Strength or Ego.
    When MD is up you will probably not die anyway, so I think the added EHP you have during MD is of much less worth than your EHP without MD.

    That really depends, if Unbreakable is up when MD isn't up then the only times you really take damage is during MD. And with the Avoid nerf and offensive passive MD really isn't all that good by itself. Justice Agil took my Avoid from 52.9% to 62.3%, so that's about 20% less damage taken during MD. In Gravi I MD + Block yellows for 5.7k right now, so that'd go up to 7.1k if I used Fitness, which means I'd need to be almost full HP to survive a yellow.
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