Chains N' Choke Build

flowcyto

Taking a break from dps FFs and ATs, I decided I needed more hybrid builds, and challenged myself on 2 fronts to make it interesting:

1. make a build utilizing the 'chain' spells
2. make it somewhat CC focused

I thought I'd just end up w/ an under-performing mess, but the build that I settled on fared better than I expected, so I thought I'd share the base of it here.


For a more committed 'chain' dps build that uses Lash_Iron Chain, you'd prob want something like this. I wanted to take a diff spin on the (underpowered) chain powers, though.

Turns out, Kyokestu Shoge not only allows the Lariat spells to Bleed, but the bleed stacks and can be applied on-tap. So, I decided to go the Rupture route to give it better boss dps, since CC builds are quite bad vs. CC-immune targets on their own.

Ofc, I could have paired the CC w/ a number of powerful staple stuff like DC/DW, TGM, Haymaker, w/e. But I wanted to keep a theme going and force myself to use other abilities. Template below:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Presence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Grimoire
Level 6: Shrug It Off
Level 9: Diplomatic
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Coordinated
Level 18: Finesse
Level 21: Acrobat

Powers:
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Eldritch Blast (Rank 2, Sorcerer's Whim)
Level 6: Aura of Ebon Destruction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Manipulator
Level 11: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Thunderclap (Rank 2, Collateral Damage)
Level 20: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 23: Vile Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 26: Reaper's Embrace (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Ego Choke (Garroting Grip)
Level 32:
Level 35:
Level 38:

Travel Powers:
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (2/3)
Intelligence: Battle of Wits (3/3)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Overseer: Administer (3/3)
Overseer: Ruthless (2/2)
Overseer: Impact (2/2)
Overseer: Trapped (3/3)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

ordered roughly w/ how I leveled the powers; 8 free adv points

Int PSS + Pres + Manipulator + hold specs allow ya to get 5+ sec aoe stuns off r2 Thunderclap. What's more, Sorc's Whim on Eldritch Blast works w/ Stuns (not just paralyzes), so you got a nice CC and burst combo w/ TC + Blast taps, and the blast stacks Manipulator fast and easy. This build is really good at locking down groups of mobs- just rope 'em in w/ Vortex Cyclone, stun w/ TC, and blast 'em while you keep them stunned w/ TC.

Against bosses, tap Lariat on cd for the Bleed, rupture it when ya get to 3-4 stacks w/ Reaper's Embrace, and otherwise keep hitting TC and Eldritch Blast in between. The higher you stack CDR, the higher ya can stack the bleed before early applications would fall off. W/ decent lvl 40 gear, I can get Lariat to a ~2.7 sec cd - still longer to apply bleed than Shred/Caress, but good enough for 4 stacks comfortably (5 if I had better CDR/gear).

As a bonus for hitting TC, Sentinel Mastery and Sentinel Aura allow you to heal allies passively, and Wither/Trapped give a nice dmg boost as debuffs.

I also included Ego Choke in there- more for the theme, but it can debuff too. The last 3 power slots can be w/e ya like: ES/NM, Ascension, Rebirth, Radiant_Ebon Sigils, a tank cd, a block, etc.

If you want to take the build to Gravi, consider replacing Overseer spec w/ Warden+Elusive.

Could also take AoPM over AoED as the passive; its considerably less dps, but more well-rounded overall in stats.


Stating: Mostly for Int, w/ some Con and Pres, and one Dex mod + crit gear (should get you to the 28-31% crit range at lvl 40, which is enough). Also consider taking Strength to 70, if gear allows.


Its still not very high dps vs. bosses, but considering the limitations I put on the the build, it performs admirably- and doesn't slouch in group support either.

(edit: and I am a fool for not realizing what was in front of me, but you can take both Lariats -Vile + Iron- to stack 5 bleeds faster, as Ajanus pointed out below; add the 2nd lariat in for a bit more boss dps)

ajanus

Quite some time back, I saw a guy dueling that used both Lariats to build bleeds fast and rupture with Reaper's Embrace. I have long since forgotten his name, but he was a pretty cool guy that took time to explain all of his power choices and things back when I was still learning how the whole freeform thing worked.

I'll never forget the experience, and I'm sorry I forgot the guy's name, but this build reminded me of that.

flowcyto

ajanus wrote: »

Quite some time back, I saw a guy dueling that used both Lariats to build bleeds fast and rupture with Reaper's Embrace. I have long since forgotten his name, but he was a pretty cool guy that took time to explain all of his power choices and things back when I was still learning how the whole freeform thing worked.

I'll never forget the experience, and I'm sorry I forgot the guy's name, but this build reminded me of that.

That's not a bad idea! Makes getting to 5 stacks pretty fast. Why didn't I think of that? ugh so inexperienced ><


Whoever that player was, he/she had a solid concept- so kudos to them.


I'll quickly edit the powers to add that in here, but I'll keep the original one as is:

Powers:
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Eldritch Blast (Rank 2, Sorcerer's Whim)
Level 6: Aura of Ebon Destruction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Manipulator
Level 11: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Thunderclap (Rank 2, Collateral Damage)
Level 20: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 23: Vile Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 26: Iron Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 29: Reaper's Embrace (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Ego Choke (Garroting Grip)
Level 35:
Level 38:

so, can get to 5 stacks even w/o much CDR this way. Pretty cool.

bravehoptoad

Wow. That build looks like so much fun.

soulesha

I've always liked chain builds. Makes me feel like a Belmont from Castlevania

Since you need to be in melee for Reaper's Embrace, you could always work in Massacre with the Bloody Mess advantage. Then you could Bleed > Massacre > Reaper's. Massacre also fits with the CC theme, because it knocks your target down.

You could even add Command Animals R2, which have bleed on their attacks. Pretty sure Massacre works on all bleeds applied to your target... not sure if Reaper's Embrace would consume the animals bleeds, though.

Form of the Swordsman seems like a good fit... gives you a stack of Focus every time you apply or rupture a bleed. But you would probably want to take Dex as a SS.

flowcyto

Wow. That build looks like so much fun.

Yup it is fun. I was quite surprised at how good it is vs. CC-able mobs. W/ the lariat+rupture thing, its decent/passable against bosses (but ofc not because of the CC powers themselves).

If anything, it shows how good/easy the TC stun + Sorc Whim combo is w/ Manipulator. If ya wanted more dmg from that pairing, could replace Pres w/ Dex SS for more Ebon Lightning procs on AoED. Could also use the ranged role w/ an offensive passive, but that lowers ur CC strength.

soulesha wrote: »

I've always liked chain builds. Makes me feel like a Belmont from Castlevania

Since you need to be in melee for Reaper's Embrace, you could always work in Massacre with the Bloody Mess advantage. Then you could Bleed > Massacre > Reaper's. Massacre also fits with the CC theme, because it knocks your target down.

You could even add Command Animals R2, which have bleed on their attacks. Pretty sure Massacre works on all bleeds applied to your target... not sure if Reaper's Embrace would consume the animals bleeds, though.

Form of the Swordsman seems like a good fit... gives you a stack of Focus every time you apply or rupture a bleed. But you would probably want to take Dex as a SS.

Yeah given I was mixing a few diff concepts, I could only fit so many things in to support the chains themselves, but still have other heals/powers I wanted. I had Crippling Coils in there once, but found the Barbed chain adv to not really work vs. bosses, so I dropped it.

Some interesting ideas there, esp incorporating FotS. Since Reaper's Embrace is used a decent amount w/ 2 Lariats, ya could also take an ability that applies shredded (Shred w/ Adv, Viper's Fangs). The pet's bleeds won't be used by your rupture, though- I do know that- but the pets themselves are actually a good fit.

Scything blade's swallowtail adv can also be used for a quick 1st bleed on bosses if you get in the habit of using it right after a rupture. Can also use Scything blade to supplement Vortex Cyclone in AoE, since ya can clump up mobs to make landing the melee cone AoE easier.

The whole lariat+rupture combo could be explored further in its own build, using some of your and my ideas, like this one:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)


Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Unleashed
Level 6: Coordinated
Level 9: Acrobat
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Impresario
Level 21: Negotiator

Powers:
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Vile Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 6: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
Level 8: Form of the Swordsman
Level 11: Iron Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique)
Level 14: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 20: Reaper's Embrace (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 26: Iron Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 29: Scything Blade (Swallowtail Cut)
Level 32: Command Animals (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Howl
Level 38: Masterful Dodge

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35:

Specializations:
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (1/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: Upper Hand (2/3)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Brawler: The Glory of Battle (1/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (3/3)
Brawler: Setup (2/2)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

I have to say, that build looks impressive, and after some brief testing at lvl 40 it seems to work pretty well.

patternwalker

I've been looking for a chains build, I'm going to have to try this!

silvergryph

OK, you inspired me to build this:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Radiant
Level 6: Diplomatic
Level 9: Finesse
Level 12: Coordinated
Level 15: Showmanship
Level 18: Academics
Level 21: Shooter

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Iron Chain (Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Iron Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 8: Vile Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 11: Quarry (Rank 2, Fair Game or Rank 3 - I just like health on kill)
Level 14: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 17: Aspect of the Bestial
Level 20: Reaper's Embrace (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 26: Crippling Coils (Rank 2, Barbed Chains)
Level 29: Iron Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 32: Grasping Shadows (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Lock N Load
Level 38: Masterful Dodge

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Chain Swinging (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Ninja Vanish

Specializations:
Presence: Repurpose (2/3)
Presence: Grandeur (3/3)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Tenacious (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

silvergryph wrote: »

OK, you inspired me to build this...

Interesting; I'm glad more people are trying to get more use out of lesser-used powers as a base.

Anyways, its a pretty good chain build. Since its more dps/tanking focused and using an Enrage (Str) toggle, I prob would trade Pres PSS for Str or Con PSS, and take STR/Con/Int or CON/Str/Int as ur SS setup. Pres was in my original build just because it was an AoED + CC build, but the CC bit wasn't related to the chain aspect as much.

Using AotB over FotS prob means ya should try to find a way to stick UR in there- as that's one of the perks to using an Enrage toggle (other being innately higher knock resist, but lower crit).

Since you have challenging advs, ya may want a more suitable tanking passive, since Quarry isn't that good defensively anymore w/o TK or EM's flat dodge buffs supporting it (it'd be okay to solo with, though). That also means ya dun really need Sentinel spec if ya wanted better crit/dps from Vindicator.

joybuzzerx

How would such a build work without rupturing the bleeds? Less damage? Or just not a big burst of damage?

flowcyto

joybuzzerx wrote: »

How would such a build work without rupturing the bleeds? Less damage? Or just not a big burst of damage?

Well, the original build (not the last few that have been posted, which are devoted Chain builds) is a combo stun/CC + burst build w/ some chain powers cause I wanted to try 'new' things for me.

The stun+Sorc's Whim part is for CC-able mobs, the rest of the build can be devoted to good boss dps moves, since CC builds lack that. That's where chains + Rupture came in for me.

W/o Bleeding from the Lariats and Rupturing, the dmg won't be great, and ya mine as well just make a committed basic chain build then. I posted one such template in the OP, but to export it here:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Coordinated
Level 9: Healthy Mind
Level 12: Acrobat
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Impresario
Level 21: Negotiator

Powers:
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Lash (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique)
Level 8: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Supernatural Power
Level 14: Aspect of the Infernal
Level 17: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 20: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Fire Snake (Rank 2, Trail Blazer)
Level 26: Vile Lariat (Rank 2)
Level 29: Devour Essence (Rank 2, Phlebotomist)
Level 32:
Level 35:
Level 38:

Travel Powers:
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

again, not great for dmg, but if ya really like the theme that's not a huge deal in most content. Chain spells are still pretty good at control (knock-tos, incapacitate) on their own.

joybuzzerx

I've just been working on a Martial Arts/Chain build...I had thought of using both Lariats and Thundering Kicks before, but it seemed like it wasn't going to help damage much. Though it would seem to help my energy use, that RUSH buff seems lacking on it.

I'm probably just to use to my original 2GM/LT build, but trying to get a feeling of more damage.

flowcyto

joybuzzerx wrote: »

I've just been working on a Martial Arts/Chain build...I had thought of using both Lariats and Thundering Kicks before, but it seemed like it wasn't going to help damage much. Though it would seem to help my energy use, that RUSH buff seems lacking on it.

I'm probably just to use to my original 2GM/LT build, but trying to get a feeling of more damage.

Well, the chain bleed + rupture build is a melee/ranged mix, whereas TGM/LT is a typical ranged dps build. Its more if ya just want to mix it up in terms of playstyle. The build I posted in reply #6 here was actually quite good dps for a build using the chains offensively- though the other part of that is Shred + PS adv + Howl's enrage.

I actually had few energy issues w/ FotS and MSA + Int for that build; Rush isn't really needed given how the Lariats keep MSA up constantly (and they dun cost much), and the toggle works off Bleeds and rupturing. I mean, you could add a Rush ability in there, but it'd prob be overkill.

joybuzzerx

flowcyto wrote: »

Well, the chain bleed + rupture build is a melee/ranged mix, whereas TGM/LT is a typical ranged dps build. Its more if ya just want to mix it up in terms of playstyle. The build I posted in reply #6 here was actually quite good dps for a build using the chains offensively- though the other part of that is Shred + PS adv + Howl's enrage.

I actually had few energy issues w/ FotS and MSA + Int for that build; Rush isn't really needed given how the Lariats keep MSA up constantly (and they dun cost much), and the toggle works off Bleeds and rupturing. I mean, you could add a Rush ability in there, but it'd prob be overkill.

I think this just goes to show we need more abilities that can rupture bleeds to expand the concepts

leaders

I decided to give making a chain build a shot it's something I been wanting to try making one for awhile and would be honored if you could spare the time give me any pointers.


I was going for a tank build with this one that would also fit the supernatural theme I had going for him any replies on how to improve this if possible would be greatly appreciated

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Superhuman
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Brilliant
Level 12: Enduring
Level 15: Physical Conditioning
Level 18: Healthy Mind
Level 21: Body and Mind

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Iron Chain (Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Iron Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 8: Vile Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 11: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 17: Form of the Swordsman
Level 20: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
Level 23: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 26: Crippling Coils (Rank 2, Barbed Chains)
Level 29: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 32: Grasping Shadows (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Lock N Load
Level 38: Masterful Dodge

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Scarab Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

Actually, if there's one way to make a committed Chain build better its to use it for tanking. Iron Chain and Lash, being the most regular chain spells, are lackluster to use for dmg, but as a simple & cheap CC debuff applicant and taunt every 7-10 sec, either of them do the trick just fine.

Since you are using Shred and Str SS, I'd take AotB for Enrage over FotS. That also allows you to use UR if you have room for it. You'll also want to pickup Reaper's Embrace if ur using both Lariats to help stack bleeds- as that's the ultimate payoff to using them for theme.

I also think you forgot to take a passive. Since you mentioned SN theme, I'd try it w/ Regen as the passive instead of building around dodge/LR, and see how that works for ya. The dodge theme can work well, ofc, but it takes more powers and maintenance to build around it.

Here's how I'd re-tool the build, adding ES/NM and UR for their burst dmg increases (though they aren't needed, you can change around the last 3 powers as you see fit):

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Devastator
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Martial Focus
Level 18: Coordinated
Level 21: Acrobat

Powers:
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
Level 6: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique, Challenging Strikes)
Level 11: Vile Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 14: Aspect of the Bestial
Level 17: Lash (Crippling Challenge)
Level 20: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 26: Iron Lariat (Kyoketsu Shoge)
Level 29: Reaper's Embrace (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Scarab Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (2/3)
Strength: Overpower (1/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (1/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

Oh, and if you ever need quick energy (say for AoE or UR, since neither bleed) ya can always tap either lariat while wading into groups of mobs to help trigger MSA and AotB (ya should be tapping- not charging- the lariats usually anyways).

leaders

Thanks for replying I decided to give the build you made a spin and I have to admit it's very impressive it's been a very long since I played a build that I've enjoyed as much as this one

flowcyto

Yeah when I was toying around w/ the dual lariat builds, I found the style quite engaging and cool. Conventional combo Bleed+Rupture builds still prob fare better and are simpler, but the chain variants got *style*, and its kinda fun juggling the short cds and knowing ur using chain powers for a nice payoff.