On the one hand, i can see people being upset with the fact that people can achieve a GOD like mode, with 2 AD's. But, only if you're dueling or in a pvp match of some sort. It seems a bit much IMHO.
But, in pve? I don't see the problem. If people want more of a challenge, simply remove AD's from the equation. Right?
I don't really care what other people do in PVP. I used to.
I would level up toons back in the day, playing bash mostly. Been here since beta.
But after devices. SG battles. Straight up random ganking by many against one.
I left that nonsense behind. If you came to a battle with your honorable build, one with NO devices, gimmicks , cheats , or didn't have a friend to back you up... it was not pretty.
But, now it no longer concerns me. My honor is still intact, and i only fight (Duel) other fighters who fight straight up (No Devices, dual AD's) the same as i do.
That way, we have a REAL battle. Skill of the player without any crutches to help the player along. But that's me. Others can play the way they wish. Isn't that what this game is all about?
OP. I would say don't worry about what others are doing, unless it directly affects you.
And if you are pve-ing. Or doing solo missions, it shouldn't.
PVP and dueling is different. Find those players with a like mind. Or ask others to fight straight up. You would be surprised at how many people want a "fair" and straight up battle, with nothing more than skill deciding the outcome in most cases. Nerf? I don't know about that. CO doesn't know how to nerf a little. Could turn out for the worse. Be careful what you ask for.
There is a HUGE difference between the most effective builds and a good build. Making a "glass cannon" build that takes away the glass part by simply rotating ADs is far above and beyond a solid build that tries to balance damage and survival without. Next step is running into problems when hard content is made for those far better performing builds. We already have plenty of garbage powers no one ever touches and powers that aren't OP enough that people don't want to take.
I honestly feel that way myself, especially that last paragraph. Thing is cryptic has a long history of excessive nerfing/buffing. It'd be different if they showed moderation but they only had done so once or twice(cases I will not name). Thing is I feel that we have a lot of players who HATE how others are playing the game cause of "cheap" tactics, or "lazy" tactics even. They are mad merely at the fact that x player is having fun using something he doesn't like.
I really agree that, how is nerfing x or y supposed to make things fun for others? Make them try new things? Eh, they are being forced to do so for the wrong reasons, and are being sent a message that what they do to be good again will also get nerfed. It's a slippery slope.
How other players play impacts how you experience things in the game. That is a reason people may hate builds they find unfair. I've already pointed out reasons for PVE and PVP.
By reducing the effects of certain power combinations, it will bring more variety, and allow the players to feel like they have more freedom when it comes to picking their powers, without feeling useless on a team. And without feeling helpless in pvp.
It stops the minority spoiling the fun parts of the game for the majority.Too bring in new players, and have them stay with this game, I think that is important. If it allows the game to be more fun, for more people, why would it be wrong to reduce the effectiveness of certain powers? Those who pick all of the best powers can still do so, it will just have a lesser impact on those around them, actually, it will probably be an improvement for them as they'll have more powers to pick from, the more the gap between powers is closed.
While this is a knee jerk reaction there would still be an underlying problem with the desire for this fix; people will still cherry pick the best. This is usually Masterful Dodge and Ascension for PvP or Ego Surge with Nimble Mind for PvE. Unless AOs and ADs are all linked little would actually change in the grand scope of things when the reality is brought to bear, as people would just pick MD and Ascension for PvP purposes and CON heavy builds will just pick Ego Surge.
The grim dark reality is a lot of these powers need to be re-balanced and badly. Otherwise it's still just going to be the same cherry picking going on with little variety between who picks what in their builds. The crit bonus from CON with Ego Surge needs to be seriously toned down, and ascension needs to be looked at because it's kind of an all in one active power you click, not just offense but defense as well. Otherwise, little will actually change when the chips are down.
What happened before.
"Imbue is OP! Nerf it" -> Everyone changed to Ego Surge.
Now what is happening.
"Ego Surge is OP! Nerf it"
What will happen next.
Ranged goes to Ice Sheath, Melee goes to Lock n Load.
...
Both Masterful Dodge and Ascension are not dream-power unless people using them with high amount of CON.
Ranged goes to Ice Sheath, Melee goes to Lock n Load.
except those AO's aren't particularly standout or powerful- esp for dps FFs. At that point, outside of hold breaks, you begin to wonder if an AO is worth the power slot.
More people would prob pick Palliate if Ascension's heal got axed, though.
except those AO's aren't particularly standout or powerful- esp for dps FFs. At that point, outside of hold breaks, you begin to wonder if an AO is worth the power slot.
I use Ice Sheath or Lock n Load (or Intensity) in some of my toon, and I don't feel so much change from Ego Surge. All those toons are doing very fine in Fire & Ice and Gravitar!.
People dreaming too much about the power that they doesn't use by him or her selves.
People dreaming too much about the power that they doesn't use by him or her selves.
Not sure what ya mean. If that I don't use non-ES AO's, well that's cause for PvE dps FFs, they aren't great for damage due to the heavy passive dmg DR on FFs (I do have 2 toons w/ LnL though- neither would be in there if it weren't for theme). On my Soldier AT, LnL is a 17-20% final dmg boost, on my dps FFs its more like 8%
I have 101 toons and only thing I'm sure is, CON is bit too much good. All my toons have different build but always CON as Primary or Secondary Stats, also having CON as most high amount no matter what I take for my powers because it is good. I love CON very much.
If Ego Surge got nerfed, I'll just replace to other and I'm sure people starts to say "xxxx is OP so nerf it", again. Only way to solve this "Please nerf" chain is to fix CON-HP scaling.
Following are the list of powers that get some effect by CON amount.
Resurgence, Conviction, Ego Surge, Ascension, Masterful Dodge, Lightning Reflex, Enrage, Palliate, Aura of Primal Majesty and all other slotted passives but esp. Aura of Primal Majesty etc...
For example, just set your CON amount lower then 100, take the powers & devices those are said "OP" include Permanent-Chain-AO/AD and see what will happen in Rampages or PvP or test soloing any 5 players instance.
You will find there are no OP exist but only immune stuff will help you survive 15 sec or so.
Even if its able to keep R3 MD permanent active, you die very easily without CON.
I have 101 toons and only thing I'm sure is, CON is bit too much good. All my toons have different build but always CON as Primary or Secondary Stats, also having CON as most high amount no matter what I take for my powers because it is good. I love CON very much.
If Ego Surge got nerfed, I'll just replace to other and I'm sure people starts to say "xxxx is OP so nerf it", again. Only way to solve this "Please nerf" chain is to fix CON-HP scaling.
Following are the list of powers that get some effect by CON amount.
Resurgence, Conviction, Ego Surge, Ascension, Masterful Dodge, Lightning Reflex, Enrage, Palliate, Aura of Primal Majesty and all other slotted passives but esp. Aura of Primal Majesty etc...
For example, just set your CON amount lower then 100, take the powers & devices those are said "OP" include Permanent-Chain-AO/AD and see what will happen in Rampages or PvP or test soloing any 5 players instance.
You will find there are no OP exist but only immune stuff will help you survive 15 sec or so.
Even if its able to keep R3 MD permanent active, you die very easily without CON.
I think you are mixing up CON being too good with the fact too many things interact with CON making it a good stat to have. CON by itself all it is is hit points. That's it. Hit points that can basically be drained rather quickly by anyone that actually builds to do it. However, the powers that interact with CON do it too well. Defiance for instance, the more CON you have the better it is. Same with Ego Surge, the more CON you have the better it is. Trying to suggest lowering hit points isn't going to fix the actual root of the problem. If CON had little interactivity people might take it to add some extra hit points, but there are other ways to add hit points now without having to take CON. People take it now because of the interactivity.
Furthermore, most of the stats you listed are not affected by CON directly, hell enrage isn't even affected by CON at all except maybe endorphin rush, and only marginally.
I really don't understand how people die to the yellow bubble. She gives you ample warning in the form of the hold bubble. Once she hits 1/3, her yellow bubble is always after a hold bubble. So if a hold bubble pops up, start moving.
the "boom lag" if you're in the bubble when it make the boom noise, then no matter what you're considered hit, and as someone what uses r3 acro, I can tell you, it's not fast enough to clear the bubble before it booms, and just barely fast enough to clear it before it detonates, but because you were in when it boomed, it don't matter, you still get hit.
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
the yellow bubble can and should be anticipated. It:
1. only comes at her last bar of health
2. only directly follows a blue bubble that is targeted to a player (not the stationary or ground ones)
3. CAN teleport to a diff player than the blue bubble was aimed at- not usually but it can happen.
So, the easy rule is- if its her last phase and you see someone w/ a blue bubble reticule, start moving away. If you are the target or are going to be in the blue bubble's range, block to avoid the hold, then immediately run- else at the end of the blue bubble everyone should be starting to move. W/ a head start, its easy to avoid, even w/ lower ranked TPs. If it doesn't end up over you then just stop running out and go back to wailing on her- only takes like 1-2 sec out of ur time.
You don't need to sit there and eat it or pop MD or rely on ur r3 speed TP or pray lag doesn't screw you or w/e.
The grim dark reality is a lot of these powers need to be re-balanced and badly. Otherwise it's still just going to be the same cherry picking going on with little variety between who picks what in their builds. The crit bonus from CON with Ego Surge needs to be seriously toned down, and ascension needs to be looked at because it's kind of an all in one active power you click, not just offense but defense as well. Otherwise, little will actually change when the chips are down.
The real problem right there and summed up quite nicely. For me it just seems like the powers were designed without really thinking about how FreeForm would change things. Freeform should be powerful, no other game has anything like it .
However, it should also have a nice system of checks and balances - which it really doesn't. Powers are all designed based on in-set interactions, with no real thought on how they'll play out of set. I also realize that's not an easy job.. how many possible freeform power combinations are there. Add skill trees, mods, and gear and you begin to realize that balancing powers with a freefrom system is nearly impossible.
I don't really know what can be done to fix that other than the minor fixes we see every now and then. But the whole things a giant game of whack-a-mole. I honestly think the real issues would require a massive powers overhaul - which the game just doesn't have the resources for.
Eh, creating a more normal range for dps on most dmg powers would be a good start, since it affects pve, pvp, tanking, etc. It comes more down to the system you'd use for normalizing dps than anything (like, not allowing a 180-200% spread between basic dmg powers in base dps- that's just too large of a range). The major stat outliers to me are Nimble Mind w/ Con, no HP DR, and insufficient DR on CDR/Int (vs. the other utility options). The shared AO/AD cd should be fixed out of principle.
how about just making it obey NTTG like it should? they even had patch notes saying they fixed it but oh nooo.
It does, the problem is that it only obeys *AFTER* being used. and NTTG doesn't stack, so you can't reapply it once they use it if it's already applied.
It does, the problem is that it only obeys *AFTER* being used. and NTTG doesn't stack, so you can't reapply it once they use it if it's already applied.
Where it totally able to obey NTTG, it Shouldn't be able to be activated in the FIRST place while under NTTG.
Or better yet, if you're going to have a power act as an emergency escape button, at LEAST make it send you 500 feet skyward/out of the fighting ring so at least everyone can see that you're a coward.
Joking aside, Ascension is used as an emergency escape button that doesn't fully obey NTTG, and people deliberately use it this way.
no, it should activate while under NTTG just not the flying part.
If it worked this way, then it wouldn't have been buffed with that AoE heal on activation it got.
The Engine can't do it without rewriting the power completely, and I don't see anyone trying that.
OK, I am fairly new so forgive me if I am missing something but when I tried using two Active Defenses I would click one and they would both go on cooldown timer, so don't they already have a shared cooldown? Granted if I understand what is being said about using cooldown reduction you could reduce the cooldown to the point that you could click the second one before the first one ran out, but even then it would be more of a slight overlap than actually being able to use both at the same time.
~I'm a figment of your imagination, a mass hallucination, only real because you feel I am~
OK, I am fairly new so forgive me if I am missing something but when I tried using two Active Defenses I would click one and they would both go on cooldown timer, so don't they already have a shared cooldown? Granted if I understand what is being said about using cooldown reduction you could reduce the cooldown to the point that you could click the second one before the first one ran out, but even then it would be more of a slight overlap than actually being able to use both at the same time.
The main benefit is really the ability to phase them so one can be up while the other is down. It lets you pack an offensive passive and still ignore the attacks of most mobs, which means you get to the boss faster and have more firepower for faster farming. See the Andrith run in my blog (sig below) for an example.
Why does it need to be fixed there? Stop trying to remove fun things from the game you dolt u_u
Because in hi-pan they fly ahead of everyone, get killed and then complain about nobody backing them up even though it's their own fault and then quit the alert, leaving the team a man down...well, from my usual experience with people flying ahead in that alert, sometimes they don't die, but i've only seen that happen twice.
in cybermind, although much more rarely it has happened more than a dozen times, one player flies all the way ahead and locks the rest of the team out of the boss fight until they die, which usually takes ages, if cybermind can even do it, considering how meek his damage is, meaning the team has to sit by and die of old age/boredom.
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
More importantly, going straight for hi-pn in his alert will likely cause him to glitch and become untargetable forever, ruining the alert for you and the others. Also, if I may add something, it is not necessary to have ascension or anything to use your travel powers in there, since the map is.. badly done. That said, I haven't met anyone who knew about this other way though, so it should be okay.
Put your fork down, I only glitched the alert once, and it was accidental.
You did notice there were no replies for almost 8 months before you asked for a lock?
Apart from your necro, I see no reasons why this had to be locked.
But maybe it is about time to start a new thread to ask for a fully shared cooldown or similar changes again, it's still a very big balance issue.
Yeah, increase the shared cd from 30s (base) to 60s (base). You'd still get some benefit from having two ADs (since you could use one every 60s instead of every 90s) but it would become extremely difficult to have permanent rotations.
On locking threads: generally speaking, locking is for threads that refuse to die. Threads that are happily fading away on their own don't need it.
That would work for pvp, but is not fixing it in areas where TPs are disabled, like the hi pan or cyberlord alerts.
They wouldn't work because the no fly zones constantly reapply the no travel power limitation. But that would require Ascension to work like other travel powers which it does not.
Comments
On the one hand, i can see people being upset with the fact that people can achieve a GOD like mode, with 2 AD's. But, only if you're dueling or in a pvp match of some sort. It seems a bit much IMHO.
But, in pve? I don't see the problem. If people want more of a challenge, simply remove AD's from the equation. Right?
I don't really care what other people do in PVP. I used to.
I would level up toons back in the day, playing bash mostly. Been here since beta.
But after devices. SG battles. Straight up random ganking by many against one.
I left that nonsense behind. If you came to a battle with your honorable build, one with NO devices, gimmicks , cheats , or didn't have a friend to back you up... it was not pretty.
But, now it no longer concerns me. My honor is still intact, and i only fight (Duel) other fighters who fight straight up (No Devices, dual AD's) the same as i do.
That way, we have a REAL battle. Skill of the player without any crutches to help the player along. But that's me. Others can play the way they wish. Isn't that what this game is all about?
OP. I would say don't worry about what others are doing, unless it directly affects you.
And if you are pve-ing. Or doing solo missions, it shouldn't.
PVP and dueling is different. Find those players with a like mind. Or ask others to fight straight up. You would be surprised at how many people want a "fair" and straight up battle, with nothing more than skill deciding the outcome in most cases. Nerf? I don't know about that. CO doesn't know how to nerf a little. Could turn out for the worse. Be careful what you ask for.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
How other players play impacts how you experience things in the game. That is a reason people may hate builds they find unfair. I've already pointed out reasons for PVE and PVP.
By reducing the effects of certain power combinations, it will bring more variety, and allow the players to feel like they have more freedom when it comes to picking their powers, without feeling useless on a team. And without feeling helpless in pvp.
It stops the minority spoiling the fun parts of the game for the majority.Too bring in new players, and have them stay with this game, I think that is important. If it allows the game to be more fun, for more people, why would it be wrong to reduce the effectiveness of certain powers? Those who pick all of the best powers can still do so, it will just have a lesser impact on those around them, actually, it will probably be an improvement for them as they'll have more powers to pick from, the more the gap between powers is closed.
The grim dark reality is a lot of these powers need to be re-balanced and badly. Otherwise it's still just going to be the same cherry picking going on with little variety between who picks what in their builds. The crit bonus from CON with Ego Surge needs to be seriously toned down, and ascension needs to be looked at because it's kind of an all in one active power you click, not just offense but defense as well. Otherwise, little will actually change when the chips are down.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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What happened before.
"Imbue is OP! Nerf it" -> Everyone changed to Ego Surge.
Now what is happening.
"Ego Surge is OP! Nerf it"
What will happen next.
Ranged goes to Ice Sheath, Melee goes to Lock n Load.
...
Both Masterful Dodge and Ascension are not dream-power unless people using them with high amount of CON.
except those AO's aren't particularly standout or powerful- esp for dps FFs. At that point, outside of hold breaks, you begin to wonder if an AO is worth the power slot.
More people would prob pick Palliate if Ascension's heal got axed, though.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
People dreaming too much about the power that they doesn't use by him or her selves.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
If Ego Surge got nerfed, I'll just replace to other and I'm sure people starts to say "xxxx is OP so nerf it", again. Only way to solve this "Please nerf" chain is to fix CON-HP scaling.
Following are the list of powers that get some effect by CON amount.
Resurgence, Conviction, Ego Surge, Ascension, Masterful Dodge, Lightning Reflex, Enrage, Palliate, Aura of Primal Majesty and all other slotted passives but esp. Aura of Primal Majesty etc...
For example, just set your CON amount lower then 100, take the powers & devices those are said "OP" include Permanent-Chain-AO/AD and see what will happen in Rampages or PvP or test soloing any 5 players instance.
You will find there are no OP exist but only immune stuff will help you survive 15 sec or so.
Even if its able to keep R3 MD permanent active, you die very easily without CON.
I think you are mixing up CON being too good with the fact too many things interact with CON making it a good stat to have. CON by itself all it is is hit points. That's it. Hit points that can basically be drained rather quickly by anyone that actually builds to do it. However, the powers that interact with CON do it too well. Defiance for instance, the more CON you have the better it is. Same with Ego Surge, the more CON you have the better it is. Trying to suggest lowering hit points isn't going to fix the actual root of the problem. If CON had little interactivity people might take it to add some extra hit points, but there are other ways to add hit points now without having to take CON. People take it now because of the interactivity.
Furthermore, most of the stats you listed are not affected by CON directly, hell enrage isn't even affected by CON at all except maybe endorphin rush, and only marginally.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
stuff that for a joke, most of mine don't have any active defences.
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the "boom lag" if you're in the bubble when it make the boom noise, then no matter what you're considered hit, and as someone what uses r3 acro, I can tell you, it's not fast enough to clear the bubble before it booms, and just barely fast enough to clear it before it detonates, but because you were in when it boomed, it don't matter, you still get hit.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
1. only comes at her last bar of health
2. only directly follows a blue bubble that is targeted to a player (not the stationary or ground ones)
3. CAN teleport to a diff player than the blue bubble was aimed at- not usually but it can happen.
So, the easy rule is- if its her last phase and you see someone w/ a blue bubble reticule, start moving away. If you are the target or are going to be in the blue bubble's range, block to avoid the hold, then immediately run- else at the end of the blue bubble everyone should be starting to move. W/ a head start, its easy to avoid, even w/ lower ranked TPs. If it doesn't end up over you then just stop running out and go back to wailing on her- only takes like 1-2 sec out of ur time.
You don't need to sit there and eat it or pop MD or rely on ur r3 speed TP or pray lag doesn't screw you or w/e.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
The real problem right there and summed up quite nicely. For me it just seems like the powers were designed without really thinking about how FreeForm would change things. Freeform should be powerful, no other game has anything like it
However, it should also have a nice system of checks and balances - which it really doesn't. Powers are all designed based on in-set interactions, with no real thought on how they'll play out of set. I also realize that's not an easy job.. how many possible freeform power combinations are there. Add skill trees, mods, and gear and you begin to realize that balancing powers with a freefrom system is nearly impossible.
I don't really know what can be done to fix that other than the minor fixes we see every now and then. But the whole things a giant game of whack-a-mole. I honestly think the real issues would require a massive powers overhaul - which the game just doesn't have the resources for.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
That still don't make the fact that you can use it to fly while under the effects of NTTG any less annoying.
make the flight an advantage or have it get it's own separate NTTG effect, because god damn it's annoying when people use it to run away constantly
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Ice-potato takes it down evreytime
It does, the problem is that it only obeys *AFTER* being used. and NTTG doesn't stack, so you can't reapply it once they use it if it's already applied.
Where it totally able to obey NTTG, it Shouldn't be able to be activated in the FIRST place while under NTTG.
Or better yet, if you're going to have a power act as an emergency escape button, at LEAST make it send you 500 feet skyward/out of the fighting ring so at least everyone can see that you're a coward.
Joking aside, Ascension is used as an emergency escape button that doesn't fully obey NTTG, and people deliberately use it this way.
@Chimerafreek
If it worked this way, then it wouldn't have been buffed with that AoE heal on activation it got.
The Engine can't do it without rewriting the power completely, and I don't see anyone trying that.
The main benefit is really the ability to phase them so one can be up while the other is down. It lets you pack an offensive passive and still ignore the attacks of most mobs, which means you get to the boss faster and have more firepower for faster farming. See the Andrith run in my blog (sig below) for an example.
- On mobile so can't link
That would work for pvp, but is not fixing it in areas where TPs are disabled, like the hi pan or cyberlord alerts.
Why does it need to be fixed there? Stop trying to remove fun things from the game you dolt u_u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Because in hi-pan they fly ahead of everyone, get killed and then complain about nobody backing them up even though it's their own fault and then quit the alert, leaving the team a man down...well, from my usual experience with people flying ahead in that alert, sometimes they don't die, but i've only seen that happen twice.
in cybermind, although much more rarely it has happened more than a dozen times, one player flies all the way ahead and locks the rest of the team out of the boss fight until they die, which usually takes ages, if cybermind can even do it, considering how meek his damage is, meaning the team has to sit by and die of old age/boredom.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Put your fork down, I only glitched the alert once, and it was accidental.
(°∇° ) #megalodon2015
and permanent ADs are still an issue!
You did notice there were no replies for almost 8 months before you asked for a lock?
Apart from your necro, I see no reasons why this had to be locked.
But maybe it is about time to start a new thread to ask for a fully shared cooldown or similar changes again, it's still a very big balance issue.
On locking threads: generally speaking, locking is for threads that refuse to die. Threads that are happily fading away on their own don't need it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Well its been necroed but its all 100% still valid. So why not?
They wouldn't work because the no fly zones constantly reapply the no travel power limitation. But that would require Ascension to work like other travel powers which it does not.