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The Champions Online Retirement Shard Programme
auldwolf
Posts: 103 Arc User
I've been thinking of doing this for a while, now. I don't know whether Cryptic are interested in listening to the thing that would probably make them more money than they have in years, who knows? I've been mulling it over and I've decided... what the hell, eh?
If TrailTurtle or any other mod wants to pass this along, that'd be lovely.
The Champions Online Retirement Shard Programme
The idea here is that eventually people get tired of grinding, some people come to this game because they don't want to grind, and if a person has a lifetime subscription, they shouldn't really have to in the first place. The whole point of grinding is to keep people paying a monthly subscription, after all. Whereas it does more to alienate the free-to-play audience than anything else. This might explain the popularity of ideas like Everquest Next, eh?
If you have a lifetime subscription, you pay once, and you're in.
I'm sure that this is a sour thing to swallow for those who've already shelled out on lifetime subscriptions, but those of us who'd want this would definitely pay it. Even at around $50 or $100, but not much more than that. But what would that fee buy into?
It's first important to understand the three groups who've been attracted to Champions Online.
The fun seekers: These are the folks who bought a lifetime subscription and just want to have fun, they want to feel super, and they liked the game best before the day-one nerf patch hit, back when it was easy to feel super. It's an audience that plays a superhero game to roleplay and have fun as a superhero, to feel like one. Where you can take out a crowd of people with a single punch, as the Hulk does, rather than barely managing one foe.
The grindaholics: They believe that no one should have a free ticket to anything, that you should have to spend long periods of your life grinding for purple drops in order to even start to feel super. They hate it when people on their servers have free access to their power, which they spent so long working for. They don't want to see those people, so they call for nerfs whenever something seems remotely overpowered.
The PvPers: These are a fairly innocuous group, but they tend to demand balance changes for PvP which may have a detrimental effect in PvE. A power someone is using in PvE that they're having fun with? Well, they might have to say goodbye to that if it's being used to troll and gain free victories in PvP, even if the PvE player hadn't done anything to hurt anyone with it. Just a power they like gets randomly nerfed, because.
It's obvious that two groups here are incompatible with the other. So what if the first group could pay to go to a different shard (like how the public test shard system works) so they wouldn't be a problem for other players? They could pay their fee and be in a different place, so their easily accrued power wouldn't offend anyone, nor would it affect PvP balance. It would be a given, of course, that balancing would be a zero priority on the retirement shard, and that fun would be given top priority.
How would it work?
Basically, the shard would be Champions Online altered so that it behaves as it did before the day-one nerf patch hit. It'd be exactly like that. At first, it'd just be Millennium City, Monster Island, and Lemuria. Soon after, Vibora Bay could be added once it's been retro-fitted to work with how the retirement shard works.
Characters would keep their cosmetic items off the bat, and items that needed stat changes would be sent over as the very minor changes necessary were made. Perhaps there could be a secondary fee to restore items with stat changes, because work isn't free, and I understand that. Cosmetics though should require no work, and should be included within the first fee. Adventure packs like comic books and so on could also carry extra fees.
The whole idea of 'balance' would go out of the window, and the basis for the retirement shard would be fun. So the 'balance' would be around the upper power levels, rather than the lower ones. And it wouldn't be altered much at all, it'd have a low priority, since the less tinkering done there, the better.
Furthermore, as a potential further aspect (and perhaps for another fee), the character designer could have all restrictions removed. It could simply be an agreement made by everyone going to the retirement shard that some people might just look like crazy amalgamations of nonsense. And we can always turn our settings down if need be, after all. (Personally, I only have characters show up with all details if they're very close.)
The last part, though, is very optional.
Separation
On the retirement shard, you'd probably have builds that could solo Teleiosaurus, and everyone would be fine with that, that would be part of the agreement for going there. This would also mean that it could be said that if you hate builds that can do that sort of thing being nerfed, you should head on over to the retirement shard.
This kind of separation would be good for the playerbase, as it would bolster it, and remove conflicts of interest.
What I mean by this is that since Gentleman_Crush has been hitting the nerf button pretty hard, lately, it'd be a better environment for him. He could alter the balance to be more harsh as he sees fit, making the game a more harsh vertical climb/grind for normal subscribers, and tougher for those who want difficulty, and he'd be praised for that. Those on the retirement shard wouldn't have to worry about what he's doing.
We could all be happy for each other. Because, again, you don't need to force people to grind if they've got lifetime. To the contrary, the grinding alienates fun seekers and forces us away, it makes the game less fun. So where I used to regularly pop into Champions Online, goof around, and buy something from the shop (I owned pretty much everything they released until I stopped playing), I now just don't play the game any more.
Champions Online just isn't fun for me, now. At all.
Fun-seekers are alienated and seeker their 'feeling super' fix elsewhere (for me, right now, it's LEGO Marvel Super Heroes, but that's not an MMO and that makes me sad), so they're just not playing, and they're not buying cosmetics or new powers, they're not putting money into the game. And if we try to push for making it fun for fun-seekers, the other groups complain.
This separation makes it right for everyone. We can all be happy for each other. We can all love Champions Online.
This would, hands down, create a better community. For everyone.
Gauging Profitability
I don't think the forums are a good way to do so. There's only a minority of the potential players here, I feel, and then only of the latter two groups.
Many I've spoken to have said that they left Champions Online for various reasons, most of all that it wasn't fun any more, at all. It felt too cynical, exploitative, and grindy. Some have even said that they'd pay for a lifetime subscription if the game was as it once was -- fun. Most have just left, like I said. A good chunk of people left out of disgust at the day one patch, even, way back in '08 and never returned. I'm one of the few who still holds some hope.
But many mourn for the Champions Online that was. It was fantastic. It was so great. It was FUN like a multiplayer LEGO game, for the whole family, and from where I sit that's really not at all a bad thing. It was singularly brilliant. And then ruined by subscription greed with that day one patch, that ridiculous day one patch.
This is a chance to put that right. But who wants it? How many want it? How many would pay for it? Those are all very good questions.
So, I say: ASK THEM.
Put a poll on the front page of the site. Inform not only the usual MMO-reporting suspects (like Massively, MMORPG.com, and Ten Ton Hammer), but also PC gaming sites, too (like Polygon, Blue's News, Rock Paper Shotgun, and VG24/7). Let them know about the poll. Explain the plan clearly and lay out the poll properly.
And just ask them if they'd pay for it or not.
I'm betting that the poll would be overwhelmingly positive. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I remember so many people who just left CO because of that day one patch and had no faith since. To know that it's returning to a pre-day one state, to know that we can play it that way again?
That would be a paradigm shift in and of itself. It'd bring a constant flow of new money into CO. But don't just take my word for it, please, run the polls. Run them, and see for yourselves.
If we want to save this game, that's one way to do it. By providing all kinds of people with their place in the sun.
I think you could do it, too. You're in a position where you're not huge and profitable enough right now that a move like this would be impossible, because it would risk a safe profit flow. So I very much think this could happen, and it could be the greatest thing ever. And I'd finally have my dear, sweet CO back. As would so, so many others.
If TrailTurtle or any other mod wants to pass this along, that'd be lovely.
The Champions Online Retirement Shard Programme
The idea here is that eventually people get tired of grinding, some people come to this game because they don't want to grind, and if a person has a lifetime subscription, they shouldn't really have to in the first place. The whole point of grinding is to keep people paying a monthly subscription, after all. Whereas it does more to alienate the free-to-play audience than anything else. This might explain the popularity of ideas like Everquest Next, eh?
If you have a lifetime subscription, you pay once, and you're in.
I'm sure that this is a sour thing to swallow for those who've already shelled out on lifetime subscriptions, but those of us who'd want this would definitely pay it. Even at around $50 or $100, but not much more than that. But what would that fee buy into?
It's first important to understand the three groups who've been attracted to Champions Online.
The fun seekers: These are the folks who bought a lifetime subscription and just want to have fun, they want to feel super, and they liked the game best before the day-one nerf patch hit, back when it was easy to feel super. It's an audience that plays a superhero game to roleplay and have fun as a superhero, to feel like one. Where you can take out a crowd of people with a single punch, as the Hulk does, rather than barely managing one foe.
The grindaholics: They believe that no one should have a free ticket to anything, that you should have to spend long periods of your life grinding for purple drops in order to even start to feel super. They hate it when people on their servers have free access to their power, which they spent so long working for. They don't want to see those people, so they call for nerfs whenever something seems remotely overpowered.
The PvPers: These are a fairly innocuous group, but they tend to demand balance changes for PvP which may have a detrimental effect in PvE. A power someone is using in PvE that they're having fun with? Well, they might have to say goodbye to that if it's being used to troll and gain free victories in PvP, even if the PvE player hadn't done anything to hurt anyone with it. Just a power they like gets randomly nerfed, because.
It's obvious that two groups here are incompatible with the other. So what if the first group could pay to go to a different shard (like how the public test shard system works) so they wouldn't be a problem for other players? They could pay their fee and be in a different place, so their easily accrued power wouldn't offend anyone, nor would it affect PvP balance. It would be a given, of course, that balancing would be a zero priority on the retirement shard, and that fun would be given top priority.
How would it work?
Basically, the shard would be Champions Online altered so that it behaves as it did before the day-one nerf patch hit. It'd be exactly like that. At first, it'd just be Millennium City, Monster Island, and Lemuria. Soon after, Vibora Bay could be added once it's been retro-fitted to work with how the retirement shard works.
Characters would keep their cosmetic items off the bat, and items that needed stat changes would be sent over as the very minor changes necessary were made. Perhaps there could be a secondary fee to restore items with stat changes, because work isn't free, and I understand that. Cosmetics though should require no work, and should be included within the first fee. Adventure packs like comic books and so on could also carry extra fees.
The whole idea of 'balance' would go out of the window, and the basis for the retirement shard would be fun. So the 'balance' would be around the upper power levels, rather than the lower ones. And it wouldn't be altered much at all, it'd have a low priority, since the less tinkering done there, the better.
Furthermore, as a potential further aspect (and perhaps for another fee), the character designer could have all restrictions removed. It could simply be an agreement made by everyone going to the retirement shard that some people might just look like crazy amalgamations of nonsense. And we can always turn our settings down if need be, after all. (Personally, I only have characters show up with all details if they're very close.)
The last part, though, is very optional.
Separation
On the retirement shard, you'd probably have builds that could solo Teleiosaurus, and everyone would be fine with that, that would be part of the agreement for going there. This would also mean that it could be said that if you hate builds that can do that sort of thing being nerfed, you should head on over to the retirement shard.
This kind of separation would be good for the playerbase, as it would bolster it, and remove conflicts of interest.
What I mean by this is that since Gentleman_Crush has been hitting the nerf button pretty hard, lately, it'd be a better environment for him. He could alter the balance to be more harsh as he sees fit, making the game a more harsh vertical climb/grind for normal subscribers, and tougher for those who want difficulty, and he'd be praised for that. Those on the retirement shard wouldn't have to worry about what he's doing.
We could all be happy for each other. Because, again, you don't need to force people to grind if they've got lifetime. To the contrary, the grinding alienates fun seekers and forces us away, it makes the game less fun. So where I used to regularly pop into Champions Online, goof around, and buy something from the shop (I owned pretty much everything they released until I stopped playing), I now just don't play the game any more.
Champions Online just isn't fun for me, now. At all.
Fun-seekers are alienated and seeker their 'feeling super' fix elsewhere (for me, right now, it's LEGO Marvel Super Heroes, but that's not an MMO and that makes me sad), so they're just not playing, and they're not buying cosmetics or new powers, they're not putting money into the game. And if we try to push for making it fun for fun-seekers, the other groups complain.
This separation makes it right for everyone. We can all be happy for each other. We can all love Champions Online.
This would, hands down, create a better community. For everyone.
Gauging Profitability
I don't think the forums are a good way to do so. There's only a minority of the potential players here, I feel, and then only of the latter two groups.
Many I've spoken to have said that they left Champions Online for various reasons, most of all that it wasn't fun any more, at all. It felt too cynical, exploitative, and grindy. Some have even said that they'd pay for a lifetime subscription if the game was as it once was -- fun. Most have just left, like I said. A good chunk of people left out of disgust at the day one patch, even, way back in '08 and never returned. I'm one of the few who still holds some hope.
But many mourn for the Champions Online that was. It was fantastic. It was so great. It was FUN like a multiplayer LEGO game, for the whole family, and from where I sit that's really not at all a bad thing. It was singularly brilliant. And then ruined by subscription greed with that day one patch, that ridiculous day one patch.
This is a chance to put that right. But who wants it? How many want it? How many would pay for it? Those are all very good questions.
So, I say: ASK THEM.
Put a poll on the front page of the site. Inform not only the usual MMO-reporting suspects (like Massively, MMORPG.com, and Ten Ton Hammer), but also PC gaming sites, too (like Polygon, Blue's News, Rock Paper Shotgun, and VG24/7). Let them know about the poll. Explain the plan clearly and lay out the poll properly.
And just ask them if they'd pay for it or not.
I'm betting that the poll would be overwhelmingly positive. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I remember so many people who just left CO because of that day one patch and had no faith since. To know that it's returning to a pre-day one state, to know that we can play it that way again?
That would be a paradigm shift in and of itself. It'd bring a constant flow of new money into CO. But don't just take my word for it, please, run the polls. Run them, and see for yourselves.
If we want to save this game, that's one way to do it. By providing all kinds of people with their place in the sun.
I think you could do it, too. You're in a position where you're not huge and profitable enough right now that a move like this would be impossible, because it would risk a safe profit flow. So I very much think this could happen, and it could be the greatest thing ever. And I'd finally have my dear, sweet CO back. As would so, so many others.
Post edited by auldwolf on
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Needless to say, this is a no. You don't go forward by jumping backwards.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Suggestion gets a "no" from me, though.
1st off, you're back to 2 superstats vs. 3. Now you might be happy to get those 3 secondary gear slots back(honestly, I wouldn't mind balancing stuff down to get those back since it would actually deliver on the versatility promised vs..well...On Alert).
Ok, now do you like pets? If you do then welcome back to Pres/INT as your SS choices. Remember, your passives and some other powers are stat specific in the old world. Oh and rolling back pets would remove their (sometimes questionable) AI upgrades too.
Do you like archery? Yeah, give up. While you're at it go back to 2GM being horrific. Do some math and realize you're trading tons of upgraded actually more powerful powers just to get mini-mines back(which, to be fair, was unintentionally double-nerfed and never repaired).
As for being able to solo the cosmics and faceroll the content...uhm, that's pretty much Live right now. What, did you not like the crit/dodge balancing? Well, I guess when your special server catches up to Bloodmoon V3 you could slot some of those Dodge Primaries....but you'll lose noticable stats to do so.
Spec Trees, Questionite, CS, AP, And so on. You did mention keeping the unlocks so at least you'll still be pretty(which I'll admit is important in CO, at least to me).
So, overall, you'll likely be weaker than on live but you'll still be able to get the PRs and Click Upgrades if you farm...long....wait, you didn't want grinding so scratch that. I mean they'll likely still be there but untouched, right?
I'm sorry, what was the actual point of this thread again? Nevermind, just let me say "no" and not divert Cryptic North Resources/Manpower away from the actual game. Besides, FOXBATCON is coming. :biggrin:
P.S. Also, have fun with 3/4ths of the mobs in the game stripping your travel powers away.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
The OP's request would constitute a nerf. A significant difficulty increase.
Archery was actually much, MUCH, more potent back at launch (except for Quarry). It is one of the exceptions.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I have fun by trying out different combinations or indulging my morbid curiosity by levelling a character without gear(zero , zip- no primary, no secondaries, also no problem)
Having said that, i have never done Therakiels temple or Mandaglore and got lost repeatedly in Andrithal. I have the missions though.
I can kill than more than one thing at once, usually running missions 3+ levels above mine when I can get them.
Going on the vehicle complaints threads and the people who complained about dodge and every other change to powers, you would get some people on there.
and of my friends, who played from Beta(not me, I didn't), none of them play anymore, as it became too easy.
before everyone jumps on the OP,
They could do it as a trial shard to gauge interest . (Of course, the problem starts if people come back, play there and then decide to play the normal game but hey, as long as they are playing)With a short survey attached to what they are willing to pay and what cosmetic items they would like to be available for sale there.
If they have the original program, a trial shard would involve checking to see if it is still in good condition and loading. Then trying to make characters, transferring won't work due to changes.
Advertising is a problem, since Cryptic apparently has an exclusive contract with Massively, which means players 'accidentally' blabbing about it on various forums.
Also OP, you could message TT to ask him to read this and see if they have the original beta test program. If they don't the rest is moot.
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P.S. Wait, didn't the archery pass make some archery powers mobile which were not before then? I'm trying to remember but I thought a few of them weren't mobile and maybe had shorter ranges.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Most of the ranged powers were not mobile. In fact any charge power back then required being stationary. Was especially bad for Melee as they could not charge and move.
And chaelk, the server going up the answer of what will happen is obvious at this point. It would just segregate the servers, and this was bad even in CoH when they tried this angle with the sub versus not subbed shtick. Furthermore, I doubt they have that legacy code even lying around. And there is more to it than just giving them an old install disc for Champions.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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(And I still wonder why someone would bother hanging around the forums for a game they've purportedly abandoned for greener pastures...)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Because anytime someone vocally claims that to as many people as possible, they didn't.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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