Munitions and Unarmed

bludskarr

I'd really like to play a character who combines these two powers. But I don't know if there's any synergy to be found there. Also, 2GM seems like it would over shadow any damage to found in the unarmed set. So maybe you could suggest ways to even everything out a bit or some useful buffs/debuffs that might work with the handgun powers.

Suggestions?

Here's something I just kinda threw together:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Acrobat
Level 9: Coordinated
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Boundless Reserves
Level 18: Investigator
Level 21: Shooter

Powers:
Level 1: Gunslinger
Level 1: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Bullet Beatdown (Rank 2)
Level 8: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Compassion
Level 14: Thunderbolt Lunge (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 17: Inexorable Tides
Level 20: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Tread Softly)
Level 23: Mighty Kick (Madness)
Level 26: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
Level 29: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 32: Frag Grenade
Level 35: Lock N Load
Level 38: Fury of the Dragon

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics
Level 35: Jet Pack

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Power Swell (2/2)
Dexterity: Evasion (1/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (2/3)
Dexterity: Quick Reflexes (2/3)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (2/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Brawler: The Glory of Battle (3/3)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (3/3)
Brawler: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

You can always address the issue of TGM overshadowing everything else by not including TGM in the build XD

How about a full-on Bullet Beatdown spec? It pretty much combos ur concept into one primary move, and ya can still use MA and Muni abilities to support it.

Here's a sample BB spec adapted from one of my toons (he uses a diff variant w/ Earth Form, MD, Parry/EM, and Conviction over BCR cause I wanted him to be Gravi-viable- which he is easily- but the Quarry version is better in a general sense):

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Archetype: Freeform
Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Powers:
Level 1: Gunslinger
Level 1: Bullet Beatdown (Rank 2, Not Without Incident, Break the Trigger)
Level 6: Shotgun Blast (Rank 2, Breaching Round)
Level 8: Form of the Tempest
Level 11: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 17: Howl (Rank 2, Make them Tremble)
Level 20: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 26: Resurgence
Level 29: Dragon Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Holdout Shot (Stim Pack)
Level 35:
Level 38:

Specializations:
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (1/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (1/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

(8 free adv points left)

Melee role and a melee-centered BB optimizes the dmg from it. I left the last 2 power slots open cause ur build is mostly complete on basic attacks and defenses (can add a lunge, MD, Resurgence, a block, an ally res, Rebirth, a threat drop, an Active offense, etc- up to you).

The dps from an optimized BB is actually up there w/ the likes of TGM, so ur single target dmg will be impressive (and it has a small radius component too, thanks to NWI). Not Without Incident was taken cause it deals dmg in aoe and also again to ur primary target, although it critting depends on if the combo hit trigger was a crit (and not on ur aoe crit %). Howl was added to give you an Enrage effect, so NWI procs at 100% instead of 30% (just keep the buff up- it also doubles as an ally buff and Fear debuff)- a big boost for BB.

Dragon Uppercut was added to give you Rush- which will help w/ energy when using BB in melee, Holdout Shot mainly for theme/style and cause of stim pack, Shotgun blast as a Muni-based CC, and LT as a larger-radius AoE option. Rush from DU may not be needed if you get a SS combo that uses both Int and Dex for energy from MSA and FotT.

Superstats can be changed in many ways. Str/Dex/Con, Str/Int/Con, Str/Dex/Int, Dex/Int/Con, Dex/Int/Str, Int/Dex/Con, and Con/Dex/Int can all work well for varying reasons (or smth like Dex/Int/Rec or Int/Dex/Rec for leveling energy concerns). Any talents and TPs are for you to pick, but I wanted to highlight the core of the build being the powers and how you want to use them together.

Optimally, you want a Wardicator spec and Warden Mastery (a rare multiplicative dmg bonus) if you want to further optimize BB as a combo.

Even if full BB wasn't what you had in mind, hope that helped give you some ideas.

flowcyto

Oh, and there is an alternative to work around a BB-focused spec that still uses TGM w/o it overpowering the rest of the build: full channeling TGM to proc one stack of Concentration (instead of using Howl for Enrage) for BB's NWI adv. This also opens up Ego as a decent PSS option, but closes off Str PSS somewhat.

I'd still use the Howl/Str route myself, cause its faster to renew and Enrage's duration will be longer w/ high Constitution than Concentration's (+the buff/debuff effects)

bludskarr

I'll number some of my concerns to make it easier to answer.


1I'd like to keep TGM if for no other reason than I don't like to intentionally gimp a character and what's the point of a hybrid if it's not a threat at ranged and melee? I'd like to have some kicks for the look of them, but I don't see any advantages that are all that helpful.

2Here's my understanding of the MA attacks I'd like to consider and why I'm not sure of their usefulness. Please point out any misunderstanding of their function if I get it wrong.

Thundering Kicks dodge buff drops as soon as it's bonus is used so that's not great. Even though melee attacks are supposed to do more damage than ranged of the same tier the damage, to me anyway, has always seemed rather poor.

Crashing Wave Kick looks pretty cool. But the stun isn't very reliable. Unless you spec to crowd control it lasts a very short time and doesn't effect hard fights at all. The advantage could be useful I think. I don't care for Lightning Reflexes though and I don't know if the advantage by itself would help a lot.

Inex. Tides is under the debuff heading, but as far as I know the only debuff it has is in it's advantage. And rooting a target isn't a huge advantage if you also have a good ranged attack.

Rising Knee and it's advantage could be useful if Bullet Beatdown can exploit it, but I'm not sure (even though it's "melee") if it's actually a melee attack for purposes of the debuff.

Dragon Kick, I seem to remember it can stun AoE and would probably look really cool when used with B Beatdown. Again, I don't know how useful the advantage is without Lightning Reflexes.

Mighty Kick's short knockback might be very useful to give me a little breathing room if I see a big melee attack coming and the one stack of Defiance the advantage gives, I'm assured by SG mates, is useful on it's own. However, it's my understanding that if you're running Regeneration you should gear either all Dodge/Avoid or all Defense and given the other kicks I'm looking at I don't know how much to expect from 1 Defiance if all my gear is Dodge.

3Using the PowerHouse web application I can't see which powers provide Rush, Concentration or Enrage without also having the appropriate toggle active so that might be a factor in some of the attacks I pick too.


4If you're wondering about the Regen/Compassion combo I have up there it's because of a little trick my SG tipped me off to. The healing Regen does will also stack Compassion. And as far as I understand Compassion boosts all damage types (great for melee/range) and those stacks also cause Regen to heal more as well. Can anyone confirm my undestanding of this combo?

5 I'm leaning toward MSA with Grenade and Thunderbolt Lunge providing the cooldowns so I can get energy back at either range. Better suggestions?

6 Maybe I should have started with this one. My theme is a space age, cyborg, adventurer. So there's some room for Gadgets too.

flowcyto

My BB template iz gud, but apparently ya dun want it, huh? Awright..

bludskarr wrote: »

1I'd like to keep TGM if for no other reason than I don't like to intentionally gimp a character and what's the point of a hybrid if it's not a threat at ranged and melee? I'd like to have some kicks for the look of them, but I don't see any advantages that are all that helpful.

Well I mean w/ that reasoning all ur builds would be using TGM and you wouldn't need any other attacks aside from AoE ones
As I mentioned in my 2nd reply, you could incorporate TGM into a BB-heavy spec w/o TGM becoming the predominant power used.

Hybrid role in this game is more to take advantage of the extra +healing it grants while getting a higher dmg boost than the Tank or Support roles, and being able to slot anything as ur passive- unlike every other role. It doesn't necc mean you go Hybrid just cause you mix 2 types of dps (melee and ranged), cause then it may be better to use either dps role.

In this case, the main reason to stay in the Hybrid role is cause you want to use a defense passive w/o hitting ur damage as much (can't use defense passives in the dps roles). Its not really because you have a ranged/melee mix..

Thundering Kicks dodge buff drops as soon as it's bonus is used so that's not great. Even though melee attacks are supposed to do more damage than ranged of the same tier the damage, to me anyway, has always seemed rather poor.

Lotus Blossom's adv is consumed on dodging, yes, but the general dodge buff you get from finishing a Thundering Kicks combo (1.2 sec total) lasts for 12 sec.

TK is good for a dodge setup, but I wouldn't get it unless you plan on tanking some.

Crashing Wave Kick looks pretty cool. But the stun isn't very reliable. Unless you spec to crowd control it lasts a very short time and doesn't effect hard fights at all. The advantage could be useful I think. I don't care for Lightning Reflexes though and I don't know if the advantage by itself would help a lot.

Subtlety of Tides is.. okay. Not really a good boost for all the upkeep, though. The stun on it is a bit delayed, yeah (but many stun effects can have that problem).

Inex. Tides is under the debuff heading, but as far as I know the only debuff it has is in it's advantage. And rooting a target isn't a huge advantage if you also have a good ranged attack.

..or are using a lunge or travel power. I'd only take the root if you specced for Overseer's Trapped debuff (but that's a ranged/blast spec tree, not a good fit for the build anyways). Otherwise its just good as a combo Knockup and cone AoE, and ya can forget the root.

Rising Knee and it's advantage could be useful if Bullet Beatdown can exploit it, but I'm not sure (even though it's "melee") if it's actually a melee attack for purposes of the debuff.

Flowing Strikes will only affect the first 2 of BB's 8 total hits, which in itself isn't really worth the trouble, imo. It can be good for buffing charge one-hit moves like Dragon's Kick or Mighty Kick, though.

Dragon Kick, I seem to remember it can stun AoE and would probably look really cool when used with B Beatdown. Again, I don't know how useful the advantage is without Lightning Reflexes.

Sure, ya could use any of the MA Dragon moves instead of Uppercut- they all grant Rush. Dragon Kick won't be as high single-target dmg as the others, cause its AoE, but its still a fine choice if you like the stun and visual.

Mighty Kick's short knockback might be very useful to give me a little breathing room if I see a big melee attack coming and the one stack of Defiance the advantage gives, I'm assured by SG mates, is useful on it's own. However, it's my understanding that if you're running Regeneration you should gear either all Dodge/Avoid or all Defense and given the other kicks I'm looking at I don't know how much to expect from 1 Defiance if all my gear is Dodge.

I wouldn't get both Mighty Kick and Inex. Tides if ur just using the knock effects, since having both for that is redundant (Dragon Uppercut also knocks- up).

And Defiance's damage resist scales w/ Constitution- one stack of it could work w/ any setup if you have a decent amount of Con.

3Using the PowerHouse web application I can't see which powers provide Rush, Concentration or Enrage without also having the appropriate toggle active so that might be a factor in some of the attacks I pick too.

Again, any of the 'Dragon X' moves grant Rush. Its in the tool-tips. TGM grants 1 stack of Concentration on full maintain, Howl grants 1 stack of Enrage. There are a few other attacks that can do this, but those two are the better ones, imo.

4If you're wondering about the Regen/Compassion combo I have up there it's because of a little trick my SG tipped me off to. The healing Regen does will also stack Compassion. And as far as I understand Compassion boosts all damage types (great for melee/range) and those stacks also cause Regen to heal more as well. Can anyone confirm my undestanding of this combo?

That combo works but.. problem is Compassion isn't a great dps toggle, usually, since it's dmg and energy boosts scale off of stats that generally aren't used heavily for dps (Presence and Recovery). Also, you can't make great use of a Rush effect w/o using a Focus-granting toggle in the MA trees anyways, and Focus toggles scale w/ Dex- a more useful dps stat.

You could also use an Enrage toggle, but there wouldn't be any ways of stacking Enrage as quickly or conveniently for BB vs. Focus w/ FotT.

5 I'm leaning toward MSA with Grenade and Thunderbolt Lunge providing the cooldowns so I can get energy back at either range. Better suggestions?

Grenade has a aoe scatter KB component- which can disrupt mob positioning too much. I wouldn't advise it. Maybe use Holdout Shot, which I already recommended, if you want a Muni cd that has some side-benefit w/ stim pack and works well w/ a high crit rate.

kallethen

I've got a Munitions/Unarmed mixed Tank character. Honestly, was mostly copied from another build I saw on either this forum or the free proboards CO forum. I can't remember exactly.

She uses TGM and BB mostly for her single target attacks and threat. Form of the Tempest for MA form. Dragon Kick for a nice AoE stun and Rush mechanic. Lead Tempest and Inex. Tides for AoE threat (and Inex. Tides' knockup can be a good interrupt). Holdout Shot w/adv and BCR for self healing. Backhand Chop for both an interrupt and another power to trigger MSA (Holdout Shot and BCR being two other MSA triggers).

Currently has Invul. and Dodge gear for damage mitigation, though I'm thinking of switching to Defiance or possibly LR.

stjobe

Here's Short Fuse:



PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Short Fuse

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
Level 15: Ego (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Marksman
Level 6: Coordinated
Level 9: Shooter
Level 12: Academics
Level 15: Accurate
Level 18: Investigator
Level 21: Daredevil

Powers:
Level 1: Gunslinger
Level 1: Bullet Beatdown (Rank 2, Not Without Incident)
Level 6: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Concentration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Killer Instinct
Level 17: Breakaway Shot (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Tread Softly)
Level 23: Parry
Level 26: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 29: Mighty Kick
Level 32: Mighty Leap (Rank 2)
Level 35: Holdout Shot (Rank 2, Stim Pack)
Level 38:

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35:

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Power Swell (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Avenger: Can't Touch This (3/3)
Avenger: Anguish (2/2)
Avenger: Surprise Attack (2/2)
Avenger: Relentless Assault (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

I left the level 38 power and second travel power open, as she actually didn't pick them before she dinged 40; feel free to put whatever you want in there - Lock and Load might be a good pick for the last power.

It was a very fun build to play all through the levels, and she only got more fun and more powerful as she progressed.

She's a little bit squishy, but nothing her guns and fist won't compensate for!

bludskarr

Thanks a lot guys. I'm taking much of your suggestions to heart. I dropped Compassion in place of Form of the Tempest. I wish there was a toggle that balanced ranged and melee better but oh well. Every time I've tried a range/melee build I've ended up with a range guy with a couple melee powers or vice versa and I guess that's just the way it is.

So I'm going melee with TGM and maybe Lead Tempest as my ranged powers with possibly Holdout to trigger MSA. Thundering Kicks for a dodge boost and Dragon Kick to round out my AoE. I'll see what else works as I go.