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Tokens: Cryptic, You're Doing it Wrong

falchoinfalchoin Posts: 383 Arc User
edited March 2014 in Suggestions Box
Tokens are great. They let us see progress towards a goal, whether that's new gear, costumes or whatever. The Silver Champion Recognition tokens were easy (albeit boring) to get from UNTIL and UNTIL 2 missions, or lair boss fights. It was great in that you knew you could spend some time running those UNTIL missions and get 35 tokens. The UNTIL recognition and lower sets were a bit more annoying but even they had guaranteed drops from level appropriate open missions.

Now come the rampages with their randomly dropped tokens at the end of a successful 10-man alert. Maybe I'm just crazy but I really dislike this system. To me, tokens should have at least one source of a guaranteed drop. Yes, the token requirement to buy the justice gear would need to increase as well but at least we could get some sense of progression for each rampage completed.

Please Cryptic, ditch the RNG on rampage tokens and increase the number of tokens required per justice gear piece.
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Comments

  • eldritchfenixeldritchfenix Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I agree with this. /signed
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I agree. Guaranteed drop, raise cost to compensate.


    It pains me when someone mentions the 50+ runs they've done, and then I mention that I've done about 10 and have over twice as many tokens as they do. It does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Yeah, pretty much this. /signed. :wink:
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  • battybattybatsbattybattybats Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Random = bad design. Some people end up on the shallow end of the bell curve and so will tend to have a disappointing time playing. Thus random = disincentive. Higher goals where every action feels like progress is better.

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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Well, I'd have to agree that the drop needs to be guaranteed, even if the token cost goes up to form the items, because in over 75+ runs I've only gathered 3 tokens... 1 a day. Doesn't help that since I am a tank I am asked almost all the time to tank Frost, which means I usually only get my hits in on Blaze towards the end thus my total contribution looks like crap always.

    I can't even believe the drop rate is 10% because mathematically even if I were to lowball it, I shoudl have 4 or 5 tokens at the very least by now.
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  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    My thoughts:

    1) Yes, get rid of the randomness of the token drops.
    2) Increase the amount needed for the gear, but not a ridiculous amount because of item 3.
    3) Limit the number of tokens that can be earned in a day.
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  • sammiefightersammiefighter Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Yup.

    And how many token subtypes are the for those .. 4 plus the drifter salvage?
    Or am I reading the drifter wrong .. 1 would do it's all you need
    (Do we need to be surprised when one token sub-type is super rare?)
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I don't even get the drifter salvage part, honestly. Why not questionite? I mean seriously, drifter salvage just kind of assists the argument of pay2win instead of going against it since the only way to get drifter salvage is from the lockboxes.
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  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    kallethen wrote: »
    My thoughts:

    1) Yes, get rid of the randomness of the token drops.
    2) Increase the amount needed for the gear, but not a ridiculous amount because of item 3.
    3) Limit the number of tokens that can be earned in a day.

    3. No please. Effort = Effort. If someone wants to stretch that effort out over time then that's their deal. If someone wants to just grindcore to get it over with then that should be their deal also. Keep in mind some people will want this Justice junk for a metric TON of alts(not me). :wink:
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    The very fact that they decided to put the Justice gear behind a pay wall does not justify making the tokens random drops. I'm fine if they want me to buy keys and give them a little revenue if I wanted to get the gear, but if I'm expected to invest in actual money then I think it's only fair that I'm assured the gear when I've grinded for enough tokens.

    If I'm able to beat the alert successfully, I don't see why I have to roll a die to see if I get my reward or not, that being the tokens.
    I don't even get the drifter salvage part, honestly. Why not questionite? I mean seriously, drifter salvage just kind of assists the argument of pay2win instead of going against it since the only way to get drifter salvage is from the lockboxes.

    I don't see how it assists the pay2win argument since Justice gear is not absolutely necessary for doing even the hardest content in this game. The pay2win argument has never been one that I took seriously at all ever since people started using the same logic for Legion gear.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    I don't see how it assists the pay2win argument since Justice gear is not absolutely necessary for doing even the hardest content in this game. The pay2win argument has never been one that I took seriously at all ever since people started using the same logic for Legion gear.

    Well Legion Gear and Justice gear do give an advantage, even if people see it as only slight. And the only way to get either is having to spend real money towards other items in the game. And while people maybe able to buy Justice gear from others with their in game resources those items still had to use real money (no idea how much as it's a chance per key so it could be as cheap as $1 or as much as $25 give or take luck). And then there is the Drifter Salvage, 10 each per Justice gear piece. And since Justice gear is Bind on Pickup, that means that people actually ahve to get the keys to unlock justice gear. So barring luck on getting a few of those +10 boxes.. for 30 pieces of justice gear that can be anywhere from $6 to as much as $25 depending on how bad your luck is.

    It strikes hard against the it's not pay2win argument because the justice gear will provide a noticeable advantage against those without it that actually could use the bonuses.

    And let's not get into the vehicle arguments where the drifter store vehicles which can require significant amounts of salvage (and cash), tend to be better than the ones you buy straight from the C-Store.

    And it still doesn't answer the question, why not use the questionite instead? Questionite right now is so painfully under used compared to either STO or Neverwinter, so why do they keep reinventing the wheel and putting in mroe currency types instead of using that one, that we also have painfully few ways to gather it.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Well Legion Gear and Justice gear do give an advantage, even if people see it as only slight. And the only way to get either is having to spend real money towards other items in the game. And while people maybe able to buy Justice gear from others with their in game resources those items still had to use real money (no idea how much as it's a chance per key so it could be as cheap as $1 or as much as $25 give or take luck). And then there is the Drifter Salvage, 10 each per Justice gear piece. And since Justice gear is Bind on Pickup, that means that people actually ahve to get the keys to unlock justice gear. So barring luck on getting a few of those +10 boxes.. for 30 pieces of justice gear that can be anywhere from $6 to as much as $25 depending on how bad your luck is.

    It strikes hard against the it's not pay2win argument because the justice gear will provide a noticeable advantage against those without it that actually could use the bonuses.

    And let's not get into the vehicle arguments where the drifter store vehicles which can require significant amounts of salvage (and cash), tend to be better than the ones you buy straight from the C-Store.

    Yes, there are indisputable advantages when it comes to Legion / Justice gear over Heroic and your standard purples, but it's still not pay2win. The current game content does not increase your risk of failure so dramatically when you aren't equipped with such gear that you'd feel utterly compelled to get them. When a piece of gear or even vehicles becomes absolutely crucial for completing certain content then it'd definitely be pay2win.
    And it still doesn't answer the question, why not use the questionite instead? Questionite right now is so painfully under used compared to either STO or Neverwinter, so why do they keep reinventing the wheel and putting in mroe currency types instead of using that one, that we also have painfully few ways to gather it.

    From a business standpoint? Drifter salvage is assured sales. Questionite is not.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Keep the drop rate of tokens the way they are in the Rampages.

    If you must have a guarantee somewhere in the game, make 1 token drop at the end of a UNITY chain based on what the end mission is.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    falchoin wrote: »
    Please Cryptic, ditch the RNG on rampage tokens and increase the number of tokens required per justice gear piece.

    /signed

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  • guardianettieguardianettie Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I think 10 of each token, if this was to work out, would be fair. That means 10 runs of each Rampage per piece. Or set some kind of mission up, like the daily Custom alert mission, which grants silver champion recognition. Something to that extent might work out as well. Anyways, I really like the idea of having a guaranteed drop rate for the tokens. I eventually got 3 on the UNTIL Sky Carrier mission, but it took literally all day to get more of them than the first one, which I got the first time. Meanwhile, I picked up about 9 of each costume piece, and hundreds of mods.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited February 2014
    Yes, making tokens RNG is a very strange idea. The one I can't fathom.

    It's not an incentive to play rampages if you are unlucky.

    Even more, as we are supposed to spend some money on the salvage. If you are unlucky, you have no incentive to spend any money on keys to get the salvage.

    If it was made to generate income for the game, then the whole RNG thing is counterproductive.

    What gives? :confused:
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I just want to point out something to those who claim pay2win:

    I currently have a little over 50 Drifter Salvage in my shared bank.

    None of that Drifter Salvage was paid for with cash from me.


    NONE.
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  • falchoinfalchoin Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Keep the drop rate of tokens the way they are in the Rampages.

    If you must have a guarantee somewhere in the game, make 1 token drop at the end of a UNITY chain based on what the end mission is.

    I could live with this too, but I would personally prefer a guaranteed drop from a rampage completion. I'm not a big fan of the UNITY mission chains and I like most of the rampages. A guaranteed drop vs a random one (especially with the apparent low chances we have now) would be a much greater incentive to run the rampages. While I can't speak for others, I know I would not run the rampages unless asked by friends if we could get a token per UNITY mission chain.
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  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    falchoin wrote: »
    I could live with this too, but I would personally prefer a guaranteed drop from a rampage completion. I'm not a big fan of the UNITY mission chains and I like most of the rampages. A guaranteed drop vs a random one (especially with the apparent low chances we have now) would be a much greater incentive to run the rampages. While I can't speak for others, I know I would not run the rampages unless asked by friends if we could get a token per UNITY mission chain.

    Why cause there is not enough incentive to do it now? There is more to the Rampages than just the tickets. Collect that other stuff, sell what you dont want, use the Gs you make to buy drifter boxes, key, and/or lockboxes and get your salvage numbers up for when you finally get enough tokens to get the gear.
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    bwdares wrote: »
    Why cause there is not enough incentive to do it now? There is more to the Rampages than just the tickets. Collect that other stuff, sell what you dont want, use the Gs you make to buy drifter boxes, key, and/or lockboxes and get your salvage numbers up for when you finally get enough tokens to get the gear.

    And what about people who have done these alerts several dozen times and have yet to get more than 1 or even none from some people I've heard? random chance is never a good design.
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  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    And what about people who have done these alerts several dozen times and have yet to get more than 1 or even none from some people I've heard? random chance is never a good design.

    Its not a good thing, just trying to spin it into something productive. I am one of those people who have done it dozens of times.

    I ran Fire and Ice over 20 times and had 1 token drop.

    I thought Sky Command would have been different because the first time I ran it I got a token drop, now over 20 more runs later I have not had any more drop. The Devs know that the drop rates suck. We told them over and over in PTS. It is obvious that they don't care, and that they are dropping like they wanted. So complaining won't do anything.
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  • hyperstrikecohhyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    If you want people to run these things more than once or twice, there needs to be an incentive to do so.
    "Just because it's so fun." isn't an incentive. Because ANYTHING palls with repetition over time.

    Making reward drops of tokens random on stuff like this is a MASSIVE disincentive to continue to play these things. Because you're at the mercy of the RNG.

    If people are going to put the time and effort into these events, they deserve to be rewarded.

    If that means changing the equipment cost structures, then so be it.
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Personally only like RNG in games that make it an important aspect such as Borderlands, Diablo, Path of Exile, and roguelikes in general.

    Considering how little variety there is in gear the higher up you go, RNG in CO is nothing more than a mild irritation.
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  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    If you want people to run these things more than once or twice, there needs to be an incentive to do so.
    "Just because it's so fun." isn't an incentive. Because ANYTHING palls with repetition over time.

    Making reward drops of tokens random on stuff like this is a MASSIVE disincentive to continue to play these things. Because you're at the mercy of the RNG.

    If people are going to put the time and effort into these events, they deserve to be rewarded.

    If that means changing the equipment cost structures, then so be it.

    Personally I think it would have been better to set it up like the Adventure packs where you get the tokens and buy stuff from a store. You were guaranteed tokens and had a list of things to pick from. Instead of having everything be a drop, though I guess they did have a couple of things be drops in those too.
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  • hyperstrikecohhyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Don't get me wrong. I don't mind RNG for things like chances at additional drops and stuff. But if you're going to make this sort of gear a centerpiece of the new system, guarantee a minimum drop.

    Otherwise, many people will just decide it's not worth their time and effort to be shafted by an RNG.
  • blasphemouswordsblasphemouswords Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Don't get me wrong. I don't mind RNG for things like chances at additional drops and stuff. But if you're going to make this sort of gear a centerpiece of the new system, guarantee a minimum drop.

    Otherwise, many people will just decide it's not worth their time and effort to be shafted by an RNG.

    While it may be the "centerpiece" of the new rampage system, the gear is not at all required for any game content. While it may provide a greater boost to those who like to min/max and/or pvp, again it is not necessary. As for the RNG being horrible, sure. It took me 175+ runs over the three days of Fire and Ice to gather all the six tokens I needed. Sure, it was a grind but I put in the effort and was eventually rewarded. As for those who prefer to space our their time, the RNG serves as an (admittedly) crappy incentive to continue playing but nonetheless an incentive. As for it being a guaranteed drop, I have to disagree only because the equipment serves as the (of-now) highest tier equipment available. Put in some crazy amount of work (or be really lucky) and you shall inherit the earth.
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  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Add another /signed to this suggestion.

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  • blasphemouswordsblasphemouswords Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    that's just saying you'll live with a crappy setup and not try to get it improved.

    if RNG sucks for this kind of thing, it sucks.

    It's rewarding for those who persevere. While it may not be your preferred/the best system as the the drop rate is low, it does ensure that not everyone will immediately gain access to the gear (even with the 12 days of farming). It'll keep people playing (and farming) until (hopefully) something new comes out.

    Justice Gear is/will be the best gear so why shouldn't it be rather (if not extremely) difficult for folks to get? Again, such gear is not needed for any content.
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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited February 2014
    You are missing fact that it has nothing to do with ones perseverance, but only with luck. It's a random chance, so it's equally likely to have all tokens needed after playing through few runs only.

    Now, if it had some set cosmic high set cost in tokens, like playing through 10000 runs or more to gather all - that's pure perseverance. :biggrin:
  • falchoinfalchoin Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It's rewarding for those who persevere. While it may not be your preferred/the best system as the the drop rate is low, it does ensure that not everyone will immediately gain access to the gear (even with the 12 days of farming). It'll keep people playing (and farming) until (hopefully) something new comes out.

    Justice Gear is/will be the best gear so why shouldn't it be rather (if not extremely) difficult for folks to get? Again, such gear is not needed for any content.

    I disagree, it rewards those who are lucky. Theoretically someone could run each of the rampages 6 times and get all the requisite tokens. There's no perserverence in that case. On the flip side, someone might never get a token drop. No matter how much they "perservere" they might never get access to justice gear.

    While justice gear is not required for any content, I do not think random chance on tokens is the best way to go about acquiring it.
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  • blasphemouswordsblasphemouswords Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It sure does. Luck and perseverance go hand in hand in this :D

    EDIT (in response to Falc):

    "Theoretically" sure but it ain't going to happen.
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  • falchoinfalchoin Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It sure does. Luck and perseverance go hand in hand in this :D

    EDIT (in response to Falc):

    "Theoretically" sure but it ain't going to happen.

    Actually I'd say perserverence and being unlucky go hand in hand in this.

    And I'm sure *someone* will get stupidly lucky and get all their tokens without much need for perserverence. At this point I feel like I'm on the opposite end.
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  • hyperstrikecohhyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    bwdares wrote: »
    Its not a good thing, just trying to spin it into something productive. I am one of those people who have done it dozens of times.

    I ran Fire and Ice over 20 times and had 1 token drop.

    I thought Sky Command would have been different because the first time I ran it I got a token drop, now over 20 more runs later I have not had any more drop. The Devs know that the drop rates suck. We told them over and over in PTS. It is obvious that they don't care, and that they are dropping like they wanted. So complaining won't do anything.
    bwdares wrote: »
    Personally I think it would have been better to set it up like the Adventure packs where you get the tokens and buy stuff from a store. You were guaranteed tokens and had a list of things to pick from. Instead of having everything be a drop, though I guess they did have a couple of things be drops in those too.

    Were they to leave pricing at 6 tokens, I'd agree with you.


    I'd feel better about a higher price of purchase, with guaranteed drops and a random chance for an extra drop here and there.

    The idea of running 150-200 runs and just hoping you're lucky enough to get a 3.5% return is BS. Yes, there are people who'll run 10-20, get lucky and be done.

    There'll be others who, after hundreds of runs, STILL won't be able to amass enough tokens.

    That kind of distribution method is utter crap.
  • hyperstrikecohhyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It's rewarding for those who persevere.

    It has nothing to do with perseverance and everything to do with luck. You're acting as if you EARNED the tokens by grinding. You didn't. You were GIFTED by the RNG and nothing more.

    If your luck with the RNG was such that you had to go 6-12 months before amassing 6 tokens, would you be so sanguine about it?

    Random can mean "randomly lucky". It can also mean "randomly unlucky" as well.

    I'm not saying "I want to be able to play it 6-10 times and be done."

    I'm saying I want an option where I can actually EARN the items instead of praying that the RNG happens to like me.
  • blasphemouswordsblasphemouswords Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It has nothing to do with perseverance and everything to do with luck. You're acting as if you EARNED the tokens by grinding. You didn't. You were GIFTED by the RNG and nothing more.

    If your luck with the RNG was such that you had to go 6-12 months before amassing 6 tokens, would you be so sanguine about it?

    Random can mean "randomly lucky". It can also mean "randomly unlucky" as well.

    I'm not saying "I want to be able to play it 6-10 times and be done."

    I'm saying I want an option where I can actually EARN the items instead of praying that the RNG happens to like me.

    I did 175+ runs to get all 6. Did those between two days. I persevered.

    I would have kept grinding those tokens for however long it took me to get all 6. We have yet to see a case where it would take months to accumulate the said six token from Fire and Ice only because it has only been around for a few days. If you were to play on a daily basis or even a semi-weekly and you land a token from that one to two hour of play, congratulations!

    I'm really curious as to the existence of those who have landed all six tokens with a few runs. Doubt it.
    We're all assuming things here, that the RNG is that horrible where it will take months for the person with the worst luck to get one. Maybe that's the case if you do a Rampage run a day but then again why would that person even want to care about having the best gear when Heroic is good enough? Why not just stick with the easily farm-able gear? After all, if you're that casual, I wouldn't expect (that is I am assuming) that player to care about min-maxing.
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  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I just want to toss a small wrench into the conversation here and remove the number 6. 6 is a cute number if you're very very main-centric but let's look at the overall design and playstyle of CO for a momment. Blasphemouswords here has gone through 175+ runs to get to this mythical 6 and I say while that might not be "perseverance"(because I'm not touching that battle of words in this post) it is putting in the time to accomplish the goal. Now I understand what I'm about to say is purely optional(like using Justice Gear at all) but let's ramp the toon count up to like 20...or 30....40......50(Not me, but some people) toons.

    What, IMO, was grossly overlooked in the design/delivery model for Auras was the alt-centric aspects of CO. Now sure, some people are froobs with 1-2 toons and some people are main-centric diehards who have had that one special hero since 2008/2009...but I would wager a good portion of the playerbase are ballparking in at roughly 5-10 toons at least(pure guesswork number, there will be no data to support this).

    So F&I had the Private Queues running all out and the PUGs were launching at a pretty even stream this time...but this is the 1st time. Let's say you're aiming to deck out 10 toons. What happens the next time? Less people but still doable? How about the next time? Maybe talk your friends into 3-4 runs before they tap? I'm saying that with the current drop rates in place for F&I that the average gamer will burn out from "winning but losing" far quicker than they would with a more precise definable goal in front of them. I'm saying that you might get a toon or two decked out in this stuff but for the person who wants it all for their stable of heroes...the longer this goes on the less likely that goal is to be realized.

    Now don't get me wrong here. I'm not this person. I have like 40ish toons and I am currently working to get ONE Justice PO for my main because I have ONE DU Core. So far I'm right on schedule having obtained my 2 tokens from each rampage. I, personally, think that in most cases either pure Heroic or Heroic + Slug PU with R5-7 Mods(5 being the base, 7 being the "done" goal) are more than enough to handle the job in PvE. In PvP, well I'll admit I used to be a PvPer but I've barely touched the scene since On Alert hit but I have friends who manage to handle themselves well enough without R9s and all that stuff so I believe it to be possible. Perhaps not ideal...but possible.

    I'm just pointing out in this post that I do not think the scope of this was properly thought out. That the measuring stick was set for a toon vs. alts. I believe that, given 2-3 months, this sytem will revert to people in zonechat going,"Please queue for X, we need the people."

    I just think it's something to consider in all of this. :wink:
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  • blasphemouswordsblasphemouswords Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    why are you so attached to the notion of forcing people to rely on the RNG? just curious here.

    it seems you want the justice gear to ONLY be for those who can get the drops.

    Justice gear should be avaliable equally to anyone who does the SAME amount of work to get it.

    say we needed 20 of each token to get it and we were guaranteed 1 drop per first run on a character. what's so terrible about that?

    Because it makes me feel like a special boy. But in all seriousness, the reason why I've been posting my own opinions and replying to others is that I think it works. If you're lucky, you're lucky. If you grind the gears, you grind the gears. The drop rate isn't unfair, it's just low. I feel that most of these posts are simply rehashes of disappointment with Champs and an relentless need to complain. I went through "hell and back" and so did others.

    Isn't Justice Gear going to be available to those who have acquired the drops (through luck, RNG, perseverance)? What equals the same amount of work? You seem to be bringing in different questions that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Back in the day, I used to run TT every day in order to get the various costume pieces. I ended up having to buy all of them. What's your point? I put in the same effort as my teammates who ended up getting the drops.

    It's not a terrible idea but I do feel it's unnecessary. The system isn't perfect but it works.

    EDIT (in response to Cross): It does feel that these Rampages were not meant for the average gamer. But anyway, even those who are altaholics, I doubt would feel the need to grind out the -best- gear for all their toons, given that being an altaholic, one moves on to a new concept/character rather quickly after leveling to 40, I assume? (That sentence is a bit cluttered, bear with me).
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  • blasphemouswordsblasphemouswords Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    system works but for some people its gonna work so much less than others.

    why not push for a better system if theres room for improvement?

    There's room for improvement in -everything-. Unfortunately, not everything is going to be improved. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind here. The system makes the "endgame reward" that much more worthwhile, in my mind, as a min/maxer.

    I can concede to the fact that a guaranteed drop is not a bad idea but then what would happen after that? Would people want more -guarantees- that they can acquire something totally unnecessary for game play and enjoyment? "Oh hey, I did twenty runs, now give me my gear."

    I feel that this is becoming a case of unadulterated want. By the end of it all, it'll just be "gib me errthang".
    ____________
    @Remok
  • blasphemouswordsblasphemouswords Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    nah, really its just stuff like gear and other tools for direct character improvement which should not be RNG based.

    I'm fine with stuff like gunblades and darkspeed being rare drops.

    Did you switch up the response? Preeetty sure this was meant for the other forum topic.

    Nope, they all fall under the same tree especially since there are alternative to Justice Gear that have existed for the longest time with no complaint. One could argue that Dark Speed's great for direct character improvement as it grants a character an extra TP and allows for one to say take teleport and super jump.
    ____________
    @Remok
  • falchoinfalchoin Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I could live with 175 tokens of each type required IF I could get a token every run. I would prefer less, but even requiring 175 tokens of each type is preferable to me than reliance on RNG. I despise RNG that much, especially in token systems which in my opinion should be used to eliminate RNG.

    I hate not knowing whether I'm wasting my time that run or not. That's the crux of the matter to me. Do you like that you spent roughly 28 hours (169 runs @ ~10 min per run) of your life in rampages that did nothing to get you closer to your goal of 6 tokens?

    At this point I don't cheer if I get a token at the completion of a rampage alert. I breathe a sigh of relief because the RNG deigned to grant me a token. In my opinion that means there is a flaw in the system.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • blkmaskblkmask Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I AGREE WITH THE OP!!!!

    The tokens should be a guaranteed drop from the Rampage and not luck of the draw. Luck of the draw all but ensures people will eventually get tired of doing Rampages because there is no surity of a token drop.

    The other thing is get rid of the Drifter salvage requirement. Yes, it ensures that you guys get to make a profit because you're requiring people who want to progress their characters to purchase the stupid lockboxes to get the even dumber Drifter Salvage. You could even replace the Drifter Salvage with Silver Champion Stars. That would give people a reason to run Unity missions.

    There are better ways to do this and not screw your customers over in the process.
  • blasphemouswordsblasphemouswords Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    blkmask wrote: »
    I AGREE WITH THE OP!!!!

    The tokens should be a guaranteed drop from the Rampage and not luck of the draw. Luck of the draw all but ensures people will eventually get tired of doing Rampages because there is no surity of a token drop.

    The other thing is get rid of the Drifter salvage requirement. Yes, it ensures that you guys get to make a profit because you're requiring people who want to progress their characters to purchase the stupid lockboxes to get the even dumber Drifter Salvage.

    There are better ways to do this and not screw your customers over in the process.

    Character progression comes from the almighty Justice Gear. If the DS requirement is such an issue, stick with the Heroic gear or obtain the G's for legion gear.

    The DS requirement has been talked to death and this particular debate is also reaching its end.
    ____________
    @Remok
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