therealwraiven, you'll be happy to know that some new games coming out will be subs only.
the companies have realized the instability of the F2p model and don't want massive influx then having to keep trying to sell items to get income.
Yea... those won't last actually. How many games that have come out for the past... oh near decade, since WoW has been out, have swapped either to B2P or F2P.
CO's problem isn't the fact that the game isn't monetized well, CO's problem is it has a terribly low player base period, that it doesn't receive the income that can actually support massive expansion that Neverwinter or Star Trek Online have received.
Considering how fast TOR went from P2P to F2P, within less than a year in fact, in order to turn around the problem of the sinking ship, compared to the mass of money apparently thrown at the project (not to mention that the two games you are talking about are WildStar and TESO) are both suffering from similiar issues and many people skeptical of the pay wall of P2P, I am more willing to bet that they will be F2P before their first expansion.
Hell, even WoW, again, is showing more and more signs that it will be going F2P within the next expansion itself, considering the game store, the introduction of F2P features in said store, as well as killing incentives to start getting people on the P2P model. P2Ps model is a dead thing that people try to grasp on.
The other model that would be sustainable is the B2P model that GW2 uses.
I am all but finished with MMOs for this very reason. I believe my days of MMOs will soon come to an end. It's nothing but one large cash shop and these MMO companies are consistently looking for ways to drain your pockets. Not the same kind of MMOs I used to play back in the late 90's and all through the 2000s. Yeah, my days of online gaming are coming to an end. What a shame...I love MMOs, but not how they have become so commercialized. I loved them much more back when they were more underground.
I had that wake up call with City Of Heroes end. When a parent company can shut down and outright murder a great virtual world and kick the sand in the face of all its paying fans and say tough luck buy our new game well I let Tabula Rasa slide, I let Exsteel slide accepting its population was clearly on the decline. But now days I figure any MMO can end at any time with only a few months warning at most.
I still have old RPGs on the pc from the late 90s I enjoy that make the 60 bucks they cost new seem a true drop in the bucket for all the years of fun they have given.
therealwraiven, you'll be happy to know that some new games coming out will be subs only.
the companies have realized the instability of the F2p model and don't want massive influx then having to keep trying to sell items to get income.
I don't see those games retaining the P2P model for very long. This isn't 10 years ago. The player market and their expectations have changed. Players have already warmed up to the idea of on-demand micro-transactions as a lucrative alternative to a compulsory monthly-subscription. Turbine realized this early on and their two flagship games have actually been doing a lot better using a F2P model than when they were strictly P2P.
The P2P model only works well when:
1) You have a massive amount of launch content.
2) You're using a popular license to base the MMO on, or do some serious marketing.
3) You provide regular content updates.
WoW and EVE are the two P2P-only MMOs that come to mind that did well in all 3 areas. Let's see if those new P2P-only MMOs coming up and achieve the same feat.
CO has failed in all three areas in the first year from launch when it was still on P2P, among other factors that helped contribute to that failure.
The devs have actually said that;
a) The other 2 get more attention because they have to please the IP owners, so they have to do regular updates
b) CO doesn't have enough income- ooh wonder why that is? Lack of development, lack of bug fixes
TSW started as buy the game AND pay subs. Now it is buy the game and either pay subs or F2p
Rifts same thing.
GW2- yes its buy and play- I found it incredibly boring, as the majority of it was grinding the same open missions until you got to another area.
The bot plagues made playing a joke.
The background stories were meh.
crafting- meh
I got sick of it after 1 month, that was with trying each class.
The only good bit was killing my idiot childhood friend who kept getting me into trouble.
Sorry and collecting pets by going to different areas and just seeing how many you could find.
on another note: another article stated that MMO's are on the way out, due to app games or something similar. won't that be fun
The devs have actually said that;
a) The other 2 get more attention because they have to please the IP owners, so they have to do regular updates
I don't care how much pleasing they try to do, unless they had the fans actually paying for the game, which they coincidentally obviously do, they are not going to be able to create more content for the game because some other company dictates they have to. No money, no updates. That's fairly obvious. And if it wasn't making the money you can bet there wouldn't be even as much content as they actually get and I seriously doubt CBS or Wizards would continue to allow their license to be used.
No, I have yet to see the devs say a). A lot of players have made that speculation, but not the devs. (Devtracker is a clever user name, but he/she isn't a dev.)
Tumer/Taco did come right out and say that the spending on CO is in line with CO's income, and the same is true of the other two (because some people will drop serious cash just so they can fly the Defiant from DS9, or trick out their Great Weapon Fighter to look just like their fighter in D&D). Put it this way - my roommate spent $50 US to buy the Defiant (Sao Paulo Class) Refit Tier 5 escort in STO. That's one ship. Imagine paying fifty bucks for one costume pack in CO. Hell, we can barely talk people into spending five!
So yes, increasing advertising for CO would doubtless pull in more players, thus enhancing revenues - but you could put an ad in every issue of every title published by Marvel and DC both for the next year, and you'll never get the numbers or level of devotion of a Trekkie. (I should know, I am one!)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
No, I have yet to see the devs say a). A lot of players have made that speculation, but not the devs. (Devtracker is a clever user name, but he/she isn't a dev.)
Tumer/Taco did come right out and say that the spending on CO is in line with CO's income, and the same is true of the other two (because some people will drop serious cash just so they can fly the Defiant from DS9, or trick out their Great Weapon Fighter to look just like their fighter in D&D). Put it this way - my roommate spent $50 US to buy the Defiant (Sao Paulo Class) Refit Tier 5 escort in STO. That's one ship. Imagine paying fifty bucks for one costume pack in CO. Hell, we can barely talk people into spending five!
So yes, increasing advertising for CO would doubtless pull in more players, thus enhancing revenues - but you could put an ad in every issue of every title published by Marvel and DC both for the next year, and you'll never get the numbers or level of devotion of a Trekkie. (I should know, I am one!)
It would take two ship purchases and possibly a uniform and bridge pack to fully recreate the look and feel of the Defiant. Sao Paulo(a Tier 4 vessel) for the quad cannons and the Retrofit(the Tier 5 vessel) for it's cloaking device. The Sao Paulo refit is 1,500 Zen, or $15, the Tactical Escort Retrofit is $20, the Defiant Bridge pack is 400 Zen and DS9 uniforms are 550 Zen. Altogether that's still a bit less than $50. You sure your roommate wasn't exaggerating things a little?
It does matter, because the topic of the conversation was not if paying players get more than nonpaying players; it was about whether paying players have an advantage over non-paying players.
Interesting you should say this, considering that this is where the conversation got derailed:
I've never paid. Does that make me one of the have nots? Cause um.... for a have not, I sure have a lot
Also, if you've never paid, how did you get the 4 freeforms you say you have? Questionite? Because that's 5.56 million Questionite for four slots at today's exchange rates and at the regular 5000 Zen price per. If you farmed all that, I'd say that's another advantage Gold (or simply paying) has over Silver - while you were farming for hours upon hours, I was doing whatever else in the gameworld I wanted to.
I'll say it again - I'm glad you're satisfied with your situation in Champions. But to say you're not missing anything when you've never known the Gold experience is shortsighted at best. I'm making my argument having been a Silver for a short time. If you still see no difference in our perspectives, then I'd say the discussion is over, as you clearly just want to continue arguing for the sake of arguing.
we also had FF slots in lock-boxes first, which were sold for in-game cash.
Also the zen price was a lot lower at that point, somewhere around 150.
Spinny may have got them then.
sorry,Jonsills you are not correct, TT is not a Dev. It was when he was discussing the Tuesday morning meetings they have with the IP holders.
I can't remember which one spoke about it on the NW forums but one there mentioned it too. UPdates have to be approved.
I have also seen it in an interview.
ack--- no I will not stick an argument starter in here. too little time this week.
damn , I love having spell check on the forums, except when it just suggested changing your name to tonsils
on the original topic, yes having no limit on farming in game currency is good.
restricting the ability to do this, is just kind of silly, it's literally pay to play
hmm 7 pages and no flame war yet. who isn't here?
Changing my name to tonsils would be interesting, albeit inaccurate - haven't had those since I was six.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
we also had FF slots in lock-boxes first, which were sold for in-game cash.
Also the zen price was a lot lower at that point, somewhere around 150.
Spinny may have got them then.
That's certainly possible, but my point still stands for anyone coming into the game now wanting to experience the game as spinny does presently. Obtaining four freeform slots right now would be a grueling endeavor without paying (87 days using both AT slots to refine the max 8000 zen per day allowed just to get the first freeform slot).
Comparing a hybrid situation like his to straight Silver vs Gold changes the discussion a bit.
Interesting you should say this, considering that this is where the conversation got derailed:
That quoted comment didn't derail that conversation actually. You can tell because Jenny never responded to it, or really even acknowledged it.. so how could it be responsible for the derailment?
Questionite? Because that's 5.56 million Questionite for four slots at today's exchange rates and at the regular 5000 Zen price per. If you farmed all that, I'd say that's another advantage Gold (or simply paying) has over Silver - while you were farming for hours upon hours, I was doing whatever else in the gameworld I wanted to.
What an odd thing to say. What were you under the impression that one has to do to farm questionite? Work? Cause I'm gonna let you in on a little secret... they actually give that stuff to you just for playing the game itself ~_^ So, this might blow your mind, but that "farming for hours on end" consisted entirely of having fun playing the game. So yes, I was also doing whatever I wanted in the gameworld, because the activities involved in acquiring questionite where the types of activities I enjoy... i.e. beating up NPCs. That begs the question... what were you doing that whole time? o_o
Long story short, not an advantage of paying customers ^_^
I'll say it again - I'm glad you're satisfied with your situation in Champions. But to say you're not missing anything when you've never known the Gold experience is shortsighted at best. I'm making my argument having been a Silver for a short time. If you still see no difference in our perspectives, then I'd say the discussion is over, as you clearly just want to continue arguing for the sake of arguing.
You just can't provide anything that there is to "experience" as a gold that a silver can't, other than power coloring and a few costume pieces. You can't even give the higher refining limit as an example, unless you're willing to admit that farming questionite is fun
Go ahead. Provide an example of something that I can only do if I'm a paying customer. Then figure out some way to rationalize that thing giving me an advantage over non-paying customers.
Face it, the "you haven't experienced it so you don't know anything about it" notion went right out the window the day they added Freeform Slots to the cash shop. I've experienced everything you have... other than power coloring and having a bird head.
In the situation that a silver player decides to invest in freeform slots over a recurring subscription then yes, that silver player isn't losing out on a full experience in practical terms if customization concerning powers and costumes isn't an issue.
On the other hand customization seems to be something of huge value in the game, enough to prompt people to go Gold. In this case then freeform slots won't be the alternative to make the player content.
Maybe we should stop speaking in absolutes since game experience expectations can vary from player to player.
In the situation that a silver player decides to invest in freeform slots over a recurring subscription then yes, that silver player isn't losing out on a full experience in practical terms if customization concerning powers and costumes isn't an issue.
On the other hand customization seems to be something of huge value in the game, enough to prompt people to go Gold. In this case then freeform slots won't be the alternative to make the player content.
Maybe we should stop speaking in absolutes since game experience expectations can vary from player to player.
We have to speak in absolutes because that's the only thing that matters. That's why I ask for absolutes; I ask for things that a non-paying player absolutely misses out on, and I'm asking for things that absolutely give a paying player an advantage over a non-paying player.
For example, there are only a few costumes ( the vet reward ones ) that a non-paying player will miss out on. Power coloring is also something that a non-paying player will absolutely miss out on, no matter what anyone's opinion is. However, those two rather small things could hardly support the claim that a non-paying player has no clue what it's like to be a subscriber, like that other guy is claiming, and certainly doesn't give a paying player any advantage over a non-paying player, the way that other guy was claiming.
It doesn't matter if someone considers those things important or not; what matters is that those are things that you cannot acquire without paying real cash at some point. What is relevant here, is that the number of things you cannot acquire if you don't spend cash are greatly outnumbered by the things you can acquire also by converting questionite into zen. There are very few things that a gold player has experienced that a silver player cannot, and none of those experiences constitutes an advantage.
Again, no one is arguing that paying players don't get a few things that non-paying players don't, and no one is arguing whether they should or shouldn't.
Well, to me, part of the fun in this game is the fun to build a very personalized hero, visually and about his powers. I won't sub because I feel I don't get enough in return for spending regular money in the game (aka new content).
I could farm the questionite to buy a freeform slot, like you said it's just time playing the game. But sadly, that means I should play for 87 days with 2 chars refining the max q I can per day, to have the freeform slot I want. That's way too long to be able to experience the content I want to play. On the other hand I could just buy the slot, but I feel the price it has is completely out of whack compared to what it gives.
So, the q farming takes too long, that even though it's just time playing the game, it's time I'm not playing the game the way I want, with a FF slot.
And buying it is way too expensive, a single FF slot is the same price that 2 other FULL games.
Also, subbing for a few months, and then going silver makes me not being able to use my FF slot anymore (unlike other games whrere if you sub then stop, then you retain what you had when you were subbing)
So there's no good option for me. I'm not saying that they are doing it wrong because I don't like any of the options, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
It doesn't matter if someone considers those things important or not; what matters is that those are things that you cannot acquire without paying real cash at some point. What is relevant here, is that the number of things you cannot acquire if you don't spend cash are greatly outnumbered by the things you can acquire also by converting questionite into zen. There are very few things that a gold player has experienced that a silver player cannot, and none of those experiences constitutes an advantage.
You're oversimplifying this particular point and omitting some important facts. Yes, it's possible to convert questionite to ZEN, but the current conversion rates dictate that a considerable amount of daily grinding has to be done for a silver player in order to substitute for paying actual money to get the same things that a gold player would instantly get. The silver player certainly does not get to experience the same perks in a similar way that a gold player does from the get-go, if the silver player actually wants to commit to such grinding in the first place.
You're oversimplifying this particular point and omitting some important facts. Yes, it's possible to convert questionite to ZEN, but the current conversion rates dictate that a considerable amount of daily grinding has to be done for a silver player in order to substitute for paying actual money to get the same things that a gold player would instantly get. The silver player certainly does not get to experience the same perks in a similar way that a gold player does from the get-go, if the silver player actually wants to commit to such grinding in the first place.
That's not relevant though, because the questions being asked here are:
1) Does a paying player have an advantage over a non-paying player
2) Can a non-paying player know what it's like to be a paying player
The fact that it takes a certain amount of time for the non-paying player to get all the same things is irrelevant, because the question isn't whether the non-paying player can experience those things today, tomorrow, or next month; can I know what it's like to get things faster rather than slower? Of course, because that is an experience that is not unique to being a paying player in Champions Online; that experience can be found in many other places outside of this game.
The fact that paying players can get things sooner does not constitute an advantage either. Getting something sooner is a convenience for the paying player that does not affect anyone but themselves and their own enjoyment of the game. An advantage has to somehow alter the interaction between the paying player and the non-paying player. You having all the costumes today doesn't effect me in any way.
You still seem to be wanting to argue the point that paying players get conveniences that non-paying players don't... which you don't have to, there's no one disagreeing with you on that point. Paying players do in fact get stuff for their money, and the stuff they get is pretty great and totally worth the money. Champions Online has a pretty great subscription setup in my opinion.
My main problem with CO (besides teh lack of new content) is the cash shop prices, I think things are way too expensive. 2 character slots in Neverwinter are around 500Z and in here they're 1500Z that's 3 times more expensive.
also 5000Z for a FF slot is ridiculous.
I don't wish to spend that much money for getting so little in return.
My main problem with CO (besides teh lack of new content) is the cash shop prices, I think things are way too expensive. 2 character slots in Neverwinter are around 500Z and in here they're 1500Z that's 3 times more expensive.
also 5000Z for a FF slot is ridiculous.
I don't wish to spend that much money for getting so little in return.
The reverse can be said to be true considering costumes and such are exceptionally cheaper. Hell even our keys are cheaper. Most of the services are cheaper and in fact there are methods especially if you are a subscriber, that you don't even have to pay for it. Not to mention that character customization is oh... 100 times better than Neverwinter. But that's two erroneous points versus the rest of the store to call ti too expensive, really.
Well those are the only 2 things I have looked for so far. Sucks to know that they are one of teh few things that are more expensive here. But they are probably the only things I care about in the cash shop...
You can't have it both ways. Don't want to pay for a recurring subscription for certain benefits like more toon slots or gold costume pieces? Then the other option is to pay a lump sum to get one of the benefits for good. The trade-off makes sense. That goes for the freeform slot too, though yes 5000 ZEN is a hefty price for it. The consolation is that you can get a discount if you dedicate yourself in farming for questionite to convert to ZEN.
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the companies have realized the instability of the F2p model and don't want massive influx then having to keep trying to sell items to get income.
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Yea... those won't last actually. How many games that have come out for the past... oh near decade, since WoW has been out, have swapped either to B2P or F2P.
CO's problem isn't the fact that the game isn't monetized well, CO's problem is it has a terribly low player base period, that it doesn't receive the income that can actually support massive expansion that Neverwinter or Star Trek Online have received.
Considering how fast TOR went from P2P to F2P, within less than a year in fact, in order to turn around the problem of the sinking ship, compared to the mass of money apparently thrown at the project (not to mention that the two games you are talking about are WildStar and TESO) are both suffering from similiar issues and many people skeptical of the pay wall of P2P, I am more willing to bet that they will be F2P before their first expansion.
Hell, even WoW, again, is showing more and more signs that it will be going F2P within the next expansion itself, considering the game store, the introduction of F2P features in said store, as well as killing incentives to start getting people on the P2P model. P2Ps model is a dead thing that people try to grasp on.
The other model that would be sustainable is the B2P model that GW2 uses.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Or, more likely, 'we'll tell people we are sub only and in 6-8 months switch to f2p with a song and dance excuse about it.'
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I had that wake up call with City Of Heroes end. When a parent company can shut down and outright murder a great virtual world and kick the sand in the face of all its paying fans and say tough luck buy our new game well I let Tabula Rasa slide, I let Exsteel slide accepting its population was clearly on the decline. But now days I figure any MMO can end at any time with only a few months warning at most.
I still have old RPGs on the pc from the late 90s I enjoy that make the 60 bucks they cost new seem a true drop in the bucket for all the years of fun they have given.
I don't see those games retaining the P2P model for very long. This isn't 10 years ago. The player market and their expectations have changed. Players have already warmed up to the idea of on-demand micro-transactions as a lucrative alternative to a compulsory monthly-subscription. Turbine realized this early on and their two flagship games have actually been doing a lot better using a F2P model than when they were strictly P2P.
The P2P model only works well when:
1) You have a massive amount of launch content.
2) You're using a popular license to base the MMO on, or do some serious marketing.
3) You provide regular content updates.
WoW and EVE are the two P2P-only MMOs that come to mind that did well in all 3 areas. Let's see if those new P2P-only MMOs coming up and achieve the same feat.
CO has failed in all three areas in the first year from launch when it was still on P2P, among other factors that helped contribute to that failure.
a) The other 2 get more attention because they have to please the IP owners, so they have to do regular updates
b) CO doesn't have enough income- ooh wonder why that is? Lack of development, lack of bug fixes
TSW started as buy the game AND pay subs. Now it is buy the game and either pay subs or F2p
Rifts same thing.
GW2- yes its buy and play- I found it incredibly boring, as the majority of it was grinding the same open missions until you got to another area.
The bot plagues made playing a joke.
The background stories were meh.
crafting- meh
I got sick of it after 1 month, that was with trying each class.
The only good bit was killing my idiot childhood friend who kept getting me into trouble.
Sorry and collecting pets by going to different areas and just seeing how many you could find.
on another note: another article stated that MMO's are on the way out, due to app games or something similar. won't that be fun
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I don't care how much pleasing they try to do, unless they had the fans actually paying for the game, which they coincidentally obviously do, they are not going to be able to create more content for the game because some other company dictates they have to. No money, no updates. That's fairly obvious. And if it wasn't making the money you can bet there wouldn't be even as much content as they actually get and I seriously doubt CBS or Wizards would continue to allow their license to be used.
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Tumer/Taco did come right out and say that the spending on CO is in line with CO's income, and the same is true of the other two (because some people will drop serious cash just so they can fly the Defiant from DS9, or trick out their Great Weapon Fighter to look just like their fighter in D&D). Put it this way - my roommate spent $50 US to buy the Defiant (Sao Paulo Class) Refit Tier 5 escort in STO. That's one ship. Imagine paying fifty bucks for one costume pack in CO. Hell, we can barely talk people into spending five!
So yes, increasing advertising for CO would doubtless pull in more players, thus enhancing revenues - but you could put an ad in every issue of every title published by Marvel and DC both for the next year, and you'll never get the numbers or level of devotion of a Trekkie. (I should know, I am one!)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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It would take two ship purchases and possibly a uniform and bridge pack to fully recreate the look and feel of the Defiant. Sao Paulo(a Tier 4 vessel) for the quad cannons and the Retrofit(the Tier 5 vessel) for it's cloaking device. The Sao Paulo refit is 1,500 Zen, or $15, the Tactical Escort Retrofit is $20, the Defiant Bridge pack is 400 Zen and DS9 uniforms are 550 Zen. Altogether that's still a bit less than $50. You sure your roommate wasn't exaggerating things a little?
Interesting you should say this, considering that this is where the conversation got derailed:
Also, if you've never paid, how did you get the 4 freeforms you say you have? Questionite? Because that's 5.56 million Questionite for four slots at today's exchange rates and at the regular 5000 Zen price per. If you farmed all that, I'd say that's another advantage Gold (or simply paying) has over Silver - while you were farming for hours upon hours, I was doing whatever else in the gameworld I wanted to.
I'll say it again - I'm glad you're satisfied with your situation in Champions. But to say you're not missing anything when you've never known the Gold experience is shortsighted at best. I'm making my argument having been a Silver for a short time. If you still see no difference in our perspectives, then I'd say the discussion is over, as you clearly just want to continue arguing for the sake of arguing.
Also the zen price was a lot lower at that point, somewhere around 150.
Spinny may have got them then.
sorry,Jonsills you are not correct, TT is not a Dev. It was when he was discussing the Tuesday morning meetings they have with the IP holders.
I can't remember which one spoke about it on the NW forums but one there mentioned it too. UPdates have to be approved.
I have also seen it in an interview.
ack--- no I will not stick an argument starter in here. too little time this week.
damn , I love having spell check on the forums, except when it just suggested changing your name to tonsils
on the original topic, yes having no limit on farming in game currency is good.
restricting the ability to do this, is just kind of silly, it's literally pay to play
hmm 7 pages and no flame war yet. who isn't here?
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- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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That's certainly possible, but my point still stands for anyone coming into the game now wanting to experience the game as spinny does presently. Obtaining four freeform slots right now would be a grueling endeavor without paying (87 days using both AT slots to refine the max 8000 zen per day allowed just to get the first freeform slot).
Comparing a hybrid situation like his to straight Silver vs Gold changes the discussion a bit.
That quoted comment didn't derail that conversation actually. You can tell because Jenny never responded to it, or really even acknowledged it.. so how could it be responsible for the derailment?
I farmed questionite and converted it to Zen.
What an odd thing to say. What were you under the impression that one has to do to farm questionite? Work? Cause I'm gonna let you in on a little secret... they actually give that stuff to you just for playing the game itself ~_^ So, this might blow your mind, but that "farming for hours on end" consisted entirely of having fun playing the game. So yes, I was also doing whatever I wanted in the gameworld, because the activities involved in acquiring questionite where the types of activities I enjoy... i.e. beating up NPCs. That begs the question... what were you doing that whole time? o_o
Long story short, not an advantage of paying customers ^_^
You just can't provide anything that there is to "experience" as a gold that a silver can't, other than power coloring and a few costume pieces. You can't even give the higher refining limit as an example, unless you're willing to admit that farming questionite is fun
Go ahead. Provide an example of something that I can only do if I'm a paying customer. Then figure out some way to rationalize that thing giving me an advantage over non-paying customers.
Face it, the "you haven't experienced it so you don't know anything about it" notion went right out the window the day they added Freeform Slots to the cash shop. I've experienced everything you have... other than power coloring and having a bird head.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
On the other hand customization seems to be something of huge value in the game, enough to prompt people to go Gold. In this case then freeform slots won't be the alternative to make the player content.
Maybe we should stop speaking in absolutes since game experience expectations can vary from player to player.
We have to speak in absolutes because that's the only thing that matters. That's why I ask for absolutes; I ask for things that a non-paying player absolutely misses out on, and I'm asking for things that absolutely give a paying player an advantage over a non-paying player.
For example, there are only a few costumes ( the vet reward ones ) that a non-paying player will miss out on. Power coloring is also something that a non-paying player will absolutely miss out on, no matter what anyone's opinion is. However, those two rather small things could hardly support the claim that a non-paying player has no clue what it's like to be a subscriber, like that other guy is claiming, and certainly doesn't give a paying player any advantage over a non-paying player, the way that other guy was claiming.
It doesn't matter if someone considers those things important or not; what matters is that those are things that you cannot acquire without paying real cash at some point. What is relevant here, is that the number of things you cannot acquire if you don't spend cash are greatly outnumbered by the things you can acquire also by converting questionite into zen. There are very few things that a gold player has experienced that a silver player cannot, and none of those experiences constitutes an advantage.
Again, no one is arguing that paying players don't get a few things that non-paying players don't, and no one is arguing whether they should or shouldn't.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I could farm the questionite to buy a freeform slot, like you said it's just time playing the game. But sadly, that means I should play for 87 days with 2 chars refining the max q I can per day, to have the freeform slot I want. That's way too long to be able to experience the content I want to play. On the other hand I could just buy the slot, but I feel the price it has is completely out of whack compared to what it gives.
So, the q farming takes too long, that even though it's just time playing the game, it's time I'm not playing the game the way I want, with a FF slot.
And buying it is way too expensive, a single FF slot is the same price that 2 other FULL games.
Also, subbing for a few months, and then going silver makes me not being able to use my FF slot anymore (unlike other games whrere if you sub then stop, then you retain what you had when you were subbing)
So there's no good option for me. I'm not saying that they are doing it wrong because I don't like any of the options, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
You're oversimplifying this particular point and omitting some important facts. Yes, it's possible to convert questionite to ZEN, but the current conversion rates dictate that a considerable amount of daily grinding has to be done for a silver player in order to substitute for paying actual money to get the same things that a gold player would instantly get. The silver player certainly does not get to experience the same perks in a similar way that a gold player does from the get-go, if the silver player actually wants to commit to such grinding in the first place.
That's not relevant though, because the questions being asked here are:
1) Does a paying player have an advantage over a non-paying player
2) Can a non-paying player know what it's like to be a paying player
The fact that it takes a certain amount of time for the non-paying player to get all the same things is irrelevant, because the question isn't whether the non-paying player can experience those things today, tomorrow, or next month; can I know what it's like to get things faster rather than slower? Of course, because that is an experience that is not unique to being a paying player in Champions Online; that experience can be found in many other places outside of this game.
The fact that paying players can get things sooner does not constitute an advantage either. Getting something sooner is a convenience for the paying player that does not affect anyone but themselves and their own enjoyment of the game. An advantage has to somehow alter the interaction between the paying player and the non-paying player. You having all the costumes today doesn't effect me in any way.
You still seem to be wanting to argue the point that paying players get conveniences that non-paying players don't... which you don't have to, there's no one disagreeing with you on that point. Paying players do in fact get stuff for their money, and the stuff they get is pretty great and totally worth the money. Champions Online has a pretty great subscription setup in my opinion.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
also 5000Z for a FF slot is ridiculous.
I don't wish to spend that much money for getting so little in return.
The reverse can be said to be true considering costumes and such are exceptionally cheaper. Hell even our keys are cheaper. Most of the services are cheaper and in fact there are methods especially if you are a subscriber, that you don't even have to pay for it. Not to mention that character customization is oh... 100 times better than Neverwinter. But that's two erroneous points versus the rest of the store to call ti too expensive, really.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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