Defiance vs Regen

mlmii

Maybe I'm doing something wrong or have chosen the wrong testing ground, but on my general solo survive anything build ( INT / CON / REC ) I can't seem to get away from Regen as my "go-to" passive...

Now, I *WANT* to like my Defiance -R1- / IDF -R3- / BRC -R1- / TK Shield -R3- -Linger- stacking (And on paper it seems that the three should work well together.), especially the energy management aspect, BUT I can't quite seem to get it to "feel" as survivable as running Regen -R3- / IDF -R3- / BRC -R1- / TK Shield -R3- -Linger- , although Defiance does allow me to save advantage points by not having to stack Acellerate Meta on all of my attacks...


Now, am I testing it wrong? What I tend to do is first pull an entire Danger Room (Hard / 5 man Team) *without* using AD or AOs, just my normal powers... Then, if the build can handle that I run Resistance (Elite) until I get to the Mega D Overseer fight where I have to handle 2 of the Mega Ds at once....


So far, Regen seems to handle both challenges then Defiance (even with the 6 piece Dillo +50% Damage Resist) which if I'm understanding the rules correctly shouldn't be the case...

Grav on the other hand tends to kick Regen's butt all over the field (Although to be fair I do spend more time alive then dead after I figured our hoe the fight is supposed to work.), and I haven't yet had the patience to run a Defiance Hero up to 40 and test against her...

Unknown

This content has been removed.

riggsmax

Regen is fantastic against most enemies. Since they added a damage reduction % on top, add in some good gear and you have decent defense...and a constant heal every 3 seconds.

Against anything except huge bosses Defiance doesnt come close it reduces damage more...but then you have to keep stopping to heal in groups of enemies, while with Regen you can just keep attacking usually and rarely see your health bar dip low. Against smallish groups you could even go afk and grab a drink, come back, and the group of enemies might only have knocked you down 10%.

Invulnerability is similarly much better to level with than Defiance.

flowcyto

Defiance is good w/o needing adv points, and it can massively increase your energy generation vs. the other passives. However you'll still need to do something to help being nickle-and-dimed by henchman dmg (not really that hard if ur FF), and its not good if ur not constantly getting hit to keep it stacked at 6.

If ya dun need the extra energy and can spare 4 adv points in ur build, then other tanking passives are prob a better choice in most cases. Defiance ain't bad, but its pretty rubbish if ur not getting hit consistently, and isn't as friendly to those who are still leveling vs. the other defense passives.


Oh, and I've tanked Gravi w/ Regen quite a few times now- its actually pretty easy as long as you block as other tanks or melee would. But that tank has TK and MD as dodge increases, so its not just Regen doing the work.

kenteko

Regen, as a defensive passive, is arguably in the bottom/bad tier (just above PFF, just below invuln) unless you're talking about soloing, at which point it jumps to the best. Regen best operates with a high level of gear (flat resistance, namely), because it gives a benefit that nobody else can get, much like Invuln or PFF.

Your fashion of testing is focused around soloing, at which point it will be perfectly clear that the best soloing passive in the game will win hands down. Defiance is an amazing passive, for group content, but without any fashion of hard group testing (like a five man Resistance or jumping into the huge horde of destroyers) you will likely see some manner of "Regen is superior" no matter the test.

Regen operates on a very simple system: If you're alive, it will keep you alive. Otherwise, you die. Once that break point hits, Regen's usability drops like a rock, but we're talking "Crystal Titans, plural" level here, and no blocking. Think of it like this: Defiance will always mitigate a nice amount of damage, give you energy, and save you advantage points. Regen will deal with most situations short of super high damage intake, which can be dealt with through proper play.

cyrone

Could take PFF. :biggrin: I just got done tanking all of the Mega D's after the upload the virus part. Although, it could've been easier without the PFF regen bug.

monsterdaddy

Each defensive passive is really defined by gear, equipment and powers meaning they can suck or shine from those choices you make. The enemies you face will also have an effect.

Defiance
I've always considered Defiance to be the number two DPS defensive passive due to the energy return, especially in builds were there isn't a synergistic Energy Unlock available. You don't need to spend advantage points. Since you need a lot of CON, it synergizes well with Ego Surge w/Nimble Mind, Strength PSS w/Juggernaut, and heals based on percent of max HP. Defiance can allow you to survive massive spike damage UNDODGED such as Gravitar's critical yellow bubble (120K base damage).

Regeneration
No energy needed, no powers to activate = very easy healing and high DPS (number 3 on my list). Regeneration really needs Masterful Dodge and high Defense so a STR PSS w/Juggernaut, Best Def/Vindicator build is almost mandatory. Regeneration can handle high burst damage indefinitely by simply holding block while under heavy fire while waiting for an Active Defense to recharge before attacking again, this includes fighting Gravitar (but use a ranked up block).

Personal Force Field
The number one DPS defensive passive IMHO. Why? Because you don't need CON! You do require 2 Active Defenses. Best for ranged heroes who can stock up on a ton of INT with a DEX PSS. A huge amount of INT = 20%+ damage per stack of concentration plus a ton of cooldown gear will get your AD's to recharge quickly. Because you will need it. My friend Cyrone is a hopeless optimist of PFF LOL but we are not as experienced as he is. I've had super low HP toons tank Gravitar the entire fight but she will get lucky and nail my hero when Masterful Dodge is down. Now if you go melee, I suggest Energy Shield with Laser Knight and you can pile on DEX or STR to match your form.

Lightning Reflexes
With high Defense from Best Defense/Vindicator and heals from a Necrullitic Elixir this is the best defensive passive IMHO with decent DPS potential. No need to stack Avoidance, there's plenty. A Legion BP of Elusiveness with 2 Gambler's Luck will push you to about 70% Dodge rate. I even have one hero at 100% Dodge rate all the time without using Evasive Maneuvers (went old school - Parry and Thundering Kicks, CON PSS)

Invulnerability
Nothing really wrong with this passive. But I like the others more because I can address their shortcomings to make any of the other ones better than this. I do use Invulnerability on higher DPS tanks roles with no CON though.

cyrone

cyrone wrote: »

Could take PFF. :biggrin: I just got done tanking all of the Mega D's after the upload the virus part. Although, it could've been easier without the PFF regen bug.

Quoting myself here to clarify due to my being half asleep when posting. That during the part on Resistance after you upload the virus and send the Mega D's haywire. Difficulty was Elite.

vitalityprime

cyrone wrote: »

Quoting myself here to clarify due to my being half asleep when posting. That during the part on Resistance after you upload the virus and send the Mega D's haywire. Difficulty was Elite.

I was a witness.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

monaahiru

Regen is wonderful if you take Compassion with you.

cyrone

gradii wrote: »

hell yeah, I tank gravitar through the PFF regen bug with Pandra Pendragon. :biggrin:

Grav is easy to tank. :rolleyes:

mlmii

Unless they've changed Compassion recently I was never really that impressed with it.


Might actually have to give PFF another shot; I tried it when I first started playing and died, ALOT using it so haven't touched it since...

theravenforce

vitalityprime wrote: »

I was a witness.

As was I.

As for VIPER....they seem a lil subdued. Not being as annoying to ForceGirl as they once were...maybe it's because I've got a new build...

flowcyto

cyrone wrote: »

Grav is easy to tank. :rolleyes:

well, by comparison being a melee AT/FF vs. her is harder

But yes, you are right, tanking her w/ an actual tank build is pretty easy once you've figured out the fight- don't even need a defense passive, really (knock resist helps a ton, though).

cyrone

flowcyto wrote: »

well, by comparison being a melee AT/FF vs. her is harder

But yes, you are right, tanking her w/ an actual tank build is pretty easy once you've figured out the fight- don't even need a defense passive, really (knock resist helps a ton, though).

I didn't find it too much harder between my ranged build and melee build (currently melee) on my PFF tank.

foosnark

riggsmax wrote: »

Against anything except huge bosses Defiance doesnt come close it reduces damage more...but then you have to keep stopping to heal in groups of enemies, while with Regen you can just keep attacking usually and rarely see your health bar dip low. Against smallish groups you could even go afk and grab a drink, come back, and the group of enemies might only have knocked you down 10%.

Invulnerability is similarly much better to level with than Defiance.

My current "main" (aka, the highest level one I'm pushing to 40, as opposed to all my teens and 20s) is a heavy weapons tank with Defiance, CON primary, Energy Shield, and Enrage rather than IDF. And it's been fantastic for leveling.

"Stopping to heal" is simply not a thing that happens. I have Bionic Shielding (which is usually a 100% heal, and the brief animation is sometimes interrupted anyway, and can happen while an enemy is recovering from a knock up/down). I also have Conviction, but I almost never use it (unlike most of my characters which pop it all the time for maintenance heals). I do have The Rush of Battle though, which can be a big deal. Enough that I got the "General Practitioner" perk at about level 36 for self-healing.