Super magifier, super shrinker and combat

notyuu

The Super magnifier and Super shrinker, two devices that make you bigger and smaller (respectively), now while what they do is purely cosmetic it does have one little erk that gets on my nerves, they deactivate/can't be turned on in combat. I personally would like to see this changed so they do work in combat, I mean after all it's not like they really add anything to your combat ability, and to anyone that's going to say something about hit-boxes and targeting and the like, I'm just gonna point out you can get things which change the size of the characters in combat, namely AoTB/enraged with advantages, minturastion device makes opponent smaller and with the advantage it makes you bigger at the same time, so why oh why can't we have the super magnifier and super shrinker working in combat?


Simply put, idea here is to allow the super mag and super shrink to not get deactivated in combat, anyone else with me on this one?

braxzana

I heartily endorse this idea; I use both of these and to have my giant muscle-bound warrior queen enter combat and SHRINK (until she then grows as Enrage builds) just feels weird. Likewise, when Angstrom is flying around in tiny form and then attacks, she ~grows~...

I can see where changing size in combat might be desirable as a concept, but I can see MORE cases where heroes would want to stay the same size either in or out of combat.

There are other devices that persist during combat, so I'm not sure why these could not.

flyingfinn

Because the size of the target/hit box.
You really want to do some Alerts with someone using power enlargers+magnifer?
And thats the reason we wont get them.

avianos

There is a Problem with this!

THE HITBOX DETECTION and THE LAG

DEVs mentioned that this would cause problem with the player's Hitbox along with the game Visuals!

and the fact that people WILL abuse it!

Heck people Already abuse Enrage's Giant Growth and Miniature Drive's Reciprocating Gizmo (and the Experimental Artificial Life Injection legacy device as well)
A player made his character SO FREAKING OBNOXIOUSLY HUGE with those powers During Gravitar, that his Character's model dissapeared from my Screen!
His Feet were as Huge as Gravitar's whole Body
Not to mention the Lag I got for Fighting in Melee along with him

spinnytop

Yes, there are some powers that change your size. And that's part of the problem... the fact that those powers can then be combined with the supermagnifer to make you stupidly huge.

Maybe a solution is to make it so that the effects cannot overlap. If you're using the Supermagnifer or super shrinker, all other size changing effects from powers are blocked.

notyuu

spinnytop wrote: »

Maybe a solution is to make it so that the effects cannot overlap. If you're using the Supermagnifer or super shrinker, all other size changing effects from powers are blocked.

^ This plus maybe making the super mag/shrinker not effect the hitbox size, just the player model.

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jerax1011

notyuu wrote: »

^ This plus maybe making the super mag/shrinker not effect the hitbox size, just the player model.

While I like the hitbox staying the same size, there's still the issue of someone HUGE blocking an entire screen and the lag from all their animations

crypticbuxom

The original issue wasn't the target box or the lag, but that large characters were more likely to fall out of the environment

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kallethen

I recall hearing another reason why not to allow this was that some power animations don't work well with huge characters.

raighn

I can't believe I'm saying this but... I agree with Spinny on this... just make the Shriker & Magnifier devices mutually exclusive to shrink/grow effects from powers... no overlapping. It's not like they aren't already essentially like this... yes I know you can activate them after combat while still under other growth effects but that will only last for a few seconds currently...

If we are restricted to choosing growth from powers or growth from device then a reliable size cap is established. Regardless of which method is taken we won't exceed the existing size capabilities in combat. (Yes I know there are ways to abuse the current in combat growth methods, but those will exist regardless of if this happens or not and should be addressed separately, they play no part in whether or not we should or shouldn't be allowed to use shrinker/magnifier in combat)

Me personally I just want to use my super shrinker in combat... one of my characters is supposed to be only about 2 foot tall... it's kinda immersion breaking when she suddenly grows to around 5 foot when she attacks or is attacked.

jerax1011

raighn wrote: »

I can't believe I'm saying this but... I agree with Spinny on this... just make the Shriker & Magnifier devices mutually exclusive to shrink/grow effects from powers... no overlapping. It's not like they aren't already essentially like this... yes I know you can activate them after combat while still under other growth effects but that will only last for a few seconds currently...

If we are restricted to choosing growth from powers or growth from device then a reliable size cap is established. Regardless of which method is taken we won't exceed the existing size capabilities in combat. (Yes I know there are ways to abuse the current in combat growth methods, but those will exist regardless of if this happens or not and should be addressed separately, they play no part in whether or not we should or shouldn't be allowed to use shrinker/magnifier in combat)

Me personally I just want to use my super shrinker in combat... one of my characters is supposed to be only about 2 foot tall... it's kinda immersion breaking when she suddenly grows to around 5 foot when she attacks or is attacked.

That's not a terrible idea all in all, especially if there's a limit on the size due to the max especially. It could even open for more builds that allow for themes like someone with all radiation powers that make then grow without actually using the powers to do so. Same goes for shrinks.

notyuu

More than a few people going on about lag from giant players has gotten me more than a little confused, I run CO on minimum settings on my computer (and even then it takes up 100% of it's power) and I've never gotten lag from giant players, both just having them standing there and fighting with them, so either things are being made up or there is something majorly messed up with the way the game deals with large model entities.

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raighn

I run on max settings and I too have never personally experienced lag around giant characters...

jerax1011

raighn wrote: »

I run on max settings and I too have never personally experienced lag around giant characters...

Only time I've experienced lag is with world events (like the Mega D invasion) and even then it's not too enough to keep me from playing, but imagine several of the players at super massive sizes and using powers like hurricane that seem to lag out some graphic cards on it's normal scale, I can foresee an issue. Personally I'd be more annoyed at not being able to see what's on my screen save for the butt cheek of a super sized player :P

raighn

jerax1011 wrote: »

Only time I've experienced lag is with world events (like the Mega D invasion) and even then it's not too enough to keep me from playing, but imagine several of the players at super massive sizes and using powers like hurricane that seem to lag out some graphic cards on it's normal scale, I can foresee an issue. Personally I'd be more annoyed at not being able to see what's on my screen save for the butt cheek of a super sized player :P

Only time I lag too is during events with massive amounts of players... it's the sheer number of attacks and effects active in one spot that lags me

notyuu

gradii wrote: »

possibly a difference in graphics card? what are you using as your GPU?

Some stupidly old 800mb piece of junk, aka it's been that long that I can't remember what it's called....simply put, it's not great, but it does the job.....barely.

stjobe

My Pixie toon Meillandine heartily supports Super Shrinker working in combat. Whoever heard of a Pixie that *grows to four foot seven* when hit?

Oh, and here's a pic of her and AF Champion Blank in front of the measuring tape at the tailor in MC:



She's 2 feet tall, she don't want to grow in combat!

(On a more technical note, if the problem is the hit boxes of huge characters, disallow that explicitly. But there's no technical reason for disallowing tiny characters - at least not in PvE).

spinnytop

I think one of the biggest issues with giant characters is ceilings, and our lack of a "bent over" stance.

jerax1011

How have I never noticed a measuring tape by the tailors?!

stjobe

jerax1011 wrote: »

How have I never noticed a measuring tape by the tailors?!

It's pretty well hidden. IIRC it was added by Tumerboy before he got shipped off to the Final Frontier (STO).

As to the super-magnifier and super-shrinker devices; if having my Pixie grow from 2 feet to 4 feet 6 inches is deemed necessary in combat, how about having the device auto-trigger on leaving combat?

Perhaps that would be a lesser coding issue than allowing them to be active during combat (which would be my preference for the super-shrinker at least - no hitbox issues with that one).