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Is Unarmed Good for DPS?

merlinmonroemerlinmonroe Posts: 40 Arc User
edited January 2014 in Power Discussion
Is unarmed comparatively good when compared to other melee styles?

I see many people using DB and a decent amount of people using SB but I see very few people using unarmed.

Is unarmed mostly for tanking?
Post edited by merlinmonroe on

Comments

  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin
    kaiserin#0958
         Posts: 3,193 Cryptic Developer
    edited January 2014
    Melee power comparison.
    MPS, TDPS are the columns of interest.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The answer is yes.

    When The Fist was introduced, it rocked Archetype PvP because of the fact that it could murder tanks like no other Archetype could at the time. Unarmed is a very good powerset that has some interesting synergies with other powersets.
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  • merlinmonroemerlinmonroe Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Thanks. I was recently getting the impression that Unarmed had most of its advantages in defense.
    It was for this reason that I used LR as my passive.

    I will probably change it to WotW or possibly NR.
  • cptmillenniumcptmillennium Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    You can get pretty good single target damage with Rising Knee + advantage, followed by two two Dragon Uppercuts (or BCF or Haymaker).
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  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Unarmed is incredibly good for DPS... and those defensive advantages they offer aren't a bad thing to take even on a pure DPS character... infact I for one might advise taking them... even with them my damage output on my MA hero pulls so much aggro through DPS alone that I find myself tanking with WotW, and surprisingly doing better at it than with my only actual tank who uses Defiance and Heavy Weapons...
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  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    merlinmonroe wrote: »
    Is unarmed comparatively good when compared to other melee styles?

    I see many people using DB and a decent amount of people using SB but I see very few people using unarmed.

    Is unarmed mostly for tanking?

    That's mostly the rule of thumb for the MA powerset:

    -unarmed for tanking;
    -single blade for bleeding;
    -dual blades for AoEs;
    -fighting claws for armor ignoring.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Yeah as long as Unarmed has Dragon Uppercut, Chi Fist, 100 Hands, and Rising Knee's flowing strikes, it can be nice for dmg in a variety of ways w/o having to dip into other trees.

    Can be annoying to AoE w/o picking up Shuriken Party, though- 120d melee cones aren't my fancy :/
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Yeah as long as Unarmed has Dragon Uppercut, Chi Fist, 100 Hands, and Rising Knee's flowing strikes, it can be nice for dmg in a variety of ways w/o having to dip into other trees.

    Can be annoying to AoE w/o picking up Shuriken Party, though- 120d melee cones aren't my fancy :/

    Shuriken party doesn't sound like a very fun party o.o
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  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    That's mostly the rule of thumb for the MA powerset:

    -unarmed for tanking;
    -single blade for bleeding;
    -dual blades for AoEs;
    -fighting claws for armor ignoring.

    Unarmed isn't just for tanking. It is perfectly capable of dishing out high DPS on it's own. Albeit high enough to warrant advising offtank capabilities for anyone using unarmed for DPS...
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  • merlinmonroemerlinmonroe Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I noticed that several suggested Hundred Hands but no one suggested Dragon Kick.

    Is Hundred Hands better than Dragon Kick?
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    merlinmonroe wrote: »
    I noticed that several suggested Hundred Hands but no one suggested Dragon Kick.

    Is Hundred Hands better than Dragon Kick?

    Yes, primarily because of the 1 pt advantage.
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  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    To bad 100 Hands looks really ugly :/
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    joybuzzerx wrote: »
    To bad 100 Hands looks really ugly :/
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  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Melee power comparison.
    MPS, TDPS are the columns of interest.

    This makes it look like Thunderkicks and Might's two Combo choices, aren't all that great, since they're not mentioned. :/

    And I see nothing mentioned about 100 Hands.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    well that list is a sampling of the higher dps melee setups- not all of them MA either. Most combos are more used to setup or debuff than for their own dmg, though Laser Sword and Enrage/Conc + Bullet Beatdown + Not W/o Incident are exceptions where the combo is the primary move just cause the base dmg from it is so high.

    If ya wanted to try to make TK more dps-viable, you'd prob want warden spec and mastery (mastery is 10% final dmg boost that's DR free iirc- that sorta boost is pretty rare), and add something like demolish or rising knee w/ flowing strikes. It still wouldn't be as high as other options, but it'd be respectable (considering how nice it is defensively). Beatdown is in the same boat, but more used for the staggers than anything else (have a build that uses it moderately- Beatdownx3, rising knee/FS, 2x charged Upheaval, tap Upheaval, repeat- works pretty well).

    The Fist actually does 100 Hands pretty well as a dps model. Put up Rush w/ Dragon Uppercut, full charge Chi Fist for the righteous Flames buff, then channel 100 Hands w/ ghostly strikes and the buff running. I imagine its not in Kaizerin's list cause, again, its not all inclusive of the good melee options.
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  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    well that list is a sampling of the higher dps melee setups- not all of them MA either. Most combos are more used to setup or debuff than for their own dmg, though Laser Sword and Enrage/Conc + Bullet Beatdown + Not W/o Incident are exceptions where the combo is the primary move just cause the base dmg from it is so high.

    If ya wanted to try to make TK more dps-viable, you'd prob want warden spec and mastery (mastery is 10% final dmg boost that's DR free iirc- that sorta boost is pretty rare), and add something like demolish or rising knee w/ flowing strikes. It still wouldn't be as high as other options, but it'd be respectable (considering how nice it is defensively). Beatdown is in the same boat, but more used for the staggers than anything else (have a build that uses it moderately- Beatdownx3, rising knee/FS, 2x charged Upheaval, tap Upheaval, repeat- works pretty well).

    The Fist actually does 100 Hands pretty well as a dps model. Put up Rush w/ Dragon Uppercut, full charge Chi Fist for the righteous Flames buff, then channel 100 Hands w/ ghostly strikes and the buff running. I imagine its not in Kaizerin's list cause, again, its not all inclusive of the good melee options.

    I have 2 Unarmed MA heroes running high DPS builds. One uses 100Hands w/adv + Chi Fist w/adv, and I will attest to its effectiveness... infact I'm frantically trying to boost her survivability because I can't seem to not pull aggro >.<

    The other one uses Thundering Kicks, Crashing Wave Kick w/adv, & Dragon Kick w/adv. She also does insane DPS and is undergeared... infact she's still wearing pre-OnAlert gear... Thundering Kicks is really good for DPS in my experience.
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  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Everyone is complicating everything for you. Allow me to simplify it, to the answer you desire.

    1. Unarmed DPS is good.
    2. Use Way of the Warrior or Unstoppable.
    3. Use high strength and high dexterity.
    4. Spam Dragon Uppercut.

    Unarmed dps. Done.
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  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I can't believe people are insulting one hundred hands! D:

    To be honest it all depends on what you are talking about when saying 'dps' for example my old demo rising knee build mainly made for PvP ofcourse could hit pretty close to a soldier AT when on a single target like a boss. However when it comes to the AOE I can't do anything really.
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  • merlinmonroemerlinmonroe Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I usually use Burning Chi Fist.

    Is Dragon Uppercut much better?
  • lordwolfylordwolfy Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    raighn wrote: »
    I have 2 Unarmed MA heroes running high DPS builds. One uses 100Hands w/adv + Chi Fist w/adv, and I will attest to its effectiveness... infact I'm frantically trying to boost her survivability because I can't seem to not pull aggro >.<

    The other one uses Thundering Kicks, Crashing Wave Kick w/adv, & Dragon Kick w/adv. She also does insane DPS and is undergeared... infact she's still wearing pre-OnAlert gear... Thundering Kicks is really good for DPS in my experience.

    Raighn, any way that you could upload or link that last kick build? I've been trying to make a unarmed DPS kick build for ages but just cant seem to get it right. I would appreciate any help I can get..even if its just a framework.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    lordwolfy wrote: »
    Raighn, any way that you could upload or link that last kick build? I've been trying to make a unarmed DPS kick build for ages but just cant seem to get it right. I would appreciate any help I can get..even if its just a framework.

    Sure thing:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Unleashed
    Level 6: Agile
    Level 9: Tireless
    Level 12: Mighty
    Level 15: Martial Focus
    Level 18: Relentless
    Level 21: Impresario

    Powers:
    Level 1: Righteous Fists
    Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Crashing Wave Kick (Rank 2, Subtlety of the Tides)
    Level 8: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Dragon Kick (Rank 2, Lashing Dragon Tail)
    Level 14: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 17: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
    Level 20: Intensity
    Level 23: Masterful Dodge
    Level 26: Thunderbolt Lunge
    Level 29: Form of the Tempest
    Level 32:
    Level 35:
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
    Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: Retribution (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

    This is the build I'm using, the last 3 slots for me are filled with R3 Command Animals, R2 Primal Summon w/adv, & R3 Arctic Beast, for conceptual reasons... I left them out on here leaving 3 skills and 6 adv points available to do whatever with.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I was using a similar build, but had to give up a lil dmg here and there to make it more defensive, cause I wanted it to be Gravi-viable (and it is... though it takes a good bit of upkeep cause being a melee dps vs. her ain't easy >< ). Link to that if ur interested.
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  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    with my build i'm considering sacrificing R2 on Crashing Wave Kick to grab Gifts of the Storm on FotT to help keep my pets alive... Since honestly I only really use Crashing Wave Kick as self-buff... Wish I could work Rising Knee w/advantage into my build somehow though... but there really isn't anything I can drop for it... Even with the sacrifices i've made for defense on my build she still does high enough damage that I find myself pulling off tanks a lot... she's primarily single target though
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    she's primarily single target though

    Yeah same here. I luv the build, but aoe is a hang-up cause if you wanna stay in-theme you only have melee cones to use. I have to strafe/circle around trash mobs leg sweeping w/e I can (actually got a complaint about 'spazzing out' from another player when doing this, rofl) if I want to snag anything more than 1 target at a time. It is pretty good CC to alternate between stuns and knock ups, though.

    Wish all trash was melee that's easily funneled, but it is satisfying when you do manage to line 3 dudes up and dragon kick em to death.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
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