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Let's Talk Theme
purin1
Posts: 433 Arc User
Okay, so I'd like to discuss themed builds in PvP, and the lack of them in Hero Games/PvP in general. Keep in mind that I already know some people don't want to have anything todo with theme while PvPing, and it's pretty much a lost cause to want them to do so. I'd just like to vent at this time since I've seen quite a bit of people trying to write off their builds as a concept when I simply cannot accept that. Nothing against them, I just want to indirectly share my thoughts somewhere.
I suppose I should start off with what I consider a themed build, or at least what I believe is required of or it should consist of. Normally, if I were to make a themed build that was intended for PvP, I would pick one or two attacking powers to focus on. It does not really matter which powers I pick once I get smart with creating set ups and combos to boost even a "mediocre" attack's damage: That is as long as I used an offensive passive. These builds normally wound up being some form of one hit wonders, but they can always evolve into some form of stunlock or disabling/lockdown type deal to pull off a combo in peace. To expand upon this, I normally need to include stealth powers or high strength not to get interrupted while trying to complete a combo or series of attacks.
Now this is going back to the offensive passive choice that I normally go with. I'll let you all know right now that I think defensive passives are boring. Nothing against any of you who use them, I just think they are less interesting and simply dull to use with most attacks. So I use offensive passives, right, big deal. I use them to boost the power that I decided I wanted to build around, because I'd find it interesting to kill
people with powers like Taser Arrow or Ego Blade Annihilation by themselves. I enjoy seeing uncommon powers in PvP used to great effect. This is not because I'm so wannabe hipster, but just because this game is all about "being the hero you want to be." I want to see variety in this - it's one of the reasons I play. There is too much of AoPM and
defensive passives in PvP. People do this so they do not need to worry about dying in most cases, when most of the time it'd make no sense for those passives to be on those builds.
So back on topic, let us define exactly what I believe would classify one's build as themed.
In my opinon, the build's purpose when you first think of it is to effectively showcase a character, superhero, what have you, through its attack combinations, movement, survivability, and mannerisms. Its purpose should not be to beat as many people as possible. Once you build just to win, it will be extremely hard to consider your build "themed."
So let's say a PvPer wants to make a build. He or she decides they want win as many duels as possible - nothing wrong with that. But it normally winds up like this: Pick Aura of Primal Majesty or any defensive passive, add Ebon Ruin, add multiple heals and active defenses, and use any exploits you can get your hands on. Now I'm not saying all competitive PvPers do this, just enough of them to notice. So this seems lame in my
opinion. You don't need to agree with me, and a lot of you probably don't, but I'll continue anyway.
Yes, there are certain powers that need to be included nearly 100% of the time in PvP builds to be competitive: namely Conviction, Ego Surge, Molecular Self Assembly, and Masterful Dodge. Though I don't believe taking these powers really take away from most themes. Conviction is not visually appealing for most characters I see running around, but Ego Surge's aura is not the most disruptive thing to look at, and Masterful Dodge/MSA do not visually break theme in any way. A couple of other powers on the other hand, like Ascension, Ego Sleep, and Evasive Maneuvers, simply do not make sense on most builds I see. Why would someone make a super tanky character and add a nimble move like Evasive Maneuvers? Why would a robot magically sprout wings and begin flying using those angelic wings? I'm in no position to say that those things do not fit one's teheme, but come on now... how many people actually would try to pass that off as themed?
Now for attacks... goodness... where do I start? Force Geyser. Ebon Ruin. Unleashed Rage. Strafing Run. Rimefire Burst. Mental Storm. Two Gun Mojo. Shadow Strike. Once again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with picking any of these powers. You want to use a Darkness themed build that has a some form of control with it? Go ahead and use Ebon Ruin. Are you a powerhouse Might build that needs to release his rage at times? Use that Unleashed Rage to its fullest. Are you an Ice/Fire wizard? Rimefire Burst is the spike for you. You can see what I'm getting at, and I understand some people might want to be some type of Dark Gunslinger dude. That's fine, but there's just no reason for so many people to want to combine all of these powers in one build.The only theme I can see that would make a lot of this stuff work together is someone
who evolves to the situation and simply becomes the strongest being who ever lived at all times. But seriously, that'd be just about everyone in the PvP community on this game.
For some examples, let's use some of the chats I've had with people while I've played this game. A lot of people I know would consider their build themed when they use AoPM, Unleashed Rage, Mental Storm, Ebon Ruin, Force Geyser, Strafing Run, Rimefire Burst, and Two Gun Mojo all on the same build. (Okay, not all of those, but I've known people who have 4 of those 6 attacks on the same build. That just does not make sense.) A build like that was not made with the intention of just making a hero that gets the job done with what he had. Its purpose was to completely overpower anyone they fight while surviving extremely well while doing so. And I know that's the sole reason some people PvP, there is no stopping that, but it'd just be nice to see less of it while joining the Hero Games.
I guess another thing I'd like to accomplish with this thread is to encourage more people to simply try out what I would consider a themed build. Try using an offensive passive. Use an attack you don't see every day. Add a bunch of stealth and heals if you need to, but keep in mind that they should make sense for what you're going for in this theme.
To those of you who think I am only doing this because I do not enjoy losing, I do not care about my performance in this game as far as PvP goes. If I did, I'd be using all of the same stuff I see every day - not my themed melee build that I bring into the Hero Games and still do just fine with most of the time.
Thank you to those of you who bring themed builds into the Hero Games, and I encourage you to bring those themed builds into the Hero Games more often. A lot of you do not care about your scores, but I'd like you prove it by using builds that are extremely tough to get good scores with. Yes... there are those people that just decide to farm themed or "weaker" builds in Bash and whatnot, but Bash should be avoided for the most
part in my opinion, and we should stop worrying about getting "bad" scores in it. There are no rewards or recorded stats in PvP, so what's the matter with just doing it for fun? Sadly some people's definition of fun is winning, and losing all the time isn't fun, sure. But taking PvP in this game to heart is a mistake at this point in time. Just do it for kicks.
And thank you to those of you who read this whole rant of mine. I'm not requesting any of you to agree with me or to even listen to me. I just felt the neeed to share my thoughts when so many people seem to think the builds they use are themed or using themed builds are a lost cause.
I apologize for feeling the need to complain. I cannot help myself sometimes.
I suppose I should start off with what I consider a themed build, or at least what I believe is required of or it should consist of. Normally, if I were to make a themed build that was intended for PvP, I would pick one or two attacking powers to focus on. It does not really matter which powers I pick once I get smart with creating set ups and combos to boost even a "mediocre" attack's damage: That is as long as I used an offensive passive. These builds normally wound up being some form of one hit wonders, but they can always evolve into some form of stunlock or disabling/lockdown type deal to pull off a combo in peace. To expand upon this, I normally need to include stealth powers or high strength not to get interrupted while trying to complete a combo or series of attacks.
Now this is going back to the offensive passive choice that I normally go with. I'll let you all know right now that I think defensive passives are boring. Nothing against any of you who use them, I just think they are less interesting and simply dull to use with most attacks. So I use offensive passives, right, big deal. I use them to boost the power that I decided I wanted to build around, because I'd find it interesting to kill
people with powers like Taser Arrow or Ego Blade Annihilation by themselves. I enjoy seeing uncommon powers in PvP used to great effect. This is not because I'm so wannabe hipster, but just because this game is all about "being the hero you want to be." I want to see variety in this - it's one of the reasons I play. There is too much of AoPM and
defensive passives in PvP. People do this so they do not need to worry about dying in most cases, when most of the time it'd make no sense for those passives to be on those builds.
So back on topic, let us define exactly what I believe would classify one's build as themed.
In my opinon, the build's purpose when you first think of it is to effectively showcase a character, superhero, what have you, through its attack combinations, movement, survivability, and mannerisms. Its purpose should not be to beat as many people as possible. Once you build just to win, it will be extremely hard to consider your build "themed."
So let's say a PvPer wants to make a build. He or she decides they want win as many duels as possible - nothing wrong with that. But it normally winds up like this: Pick Aura of Primal Majesty or any defensive passive, add Ebon Ruin, add multiple heals and active defenses, and use any exploits you can get your hands on. Now I'm not saying all competitive PvPers do this, just enough of them to notice. So this seems lame in my
opinion. You don't need to agree with me, and a lot of you probably don't, but I'll continue anyway.
Yes, there are certain powers that need to be included nearly 100% of the time in PvP builds to be competitive: namely Conviction, Ego Surge, Molecular Self Assembly, and Masterful Dodge. Though I don't believe taking these powers really take away from most themes. Conviction is not visually appealing for most characters I see running around, but Ego Surge's aura is not the most disruptive thing to look at, and Masterful Dodge/MSA do not visually break theme in any way. A couple of other powers on the other hand, like Ascension, Ego Sleep, and Evasive Maneuvers, simply do not make sense on most builds I see. Why would someone make a super tanky character and add a nimble move like Evasive Maneuvers? Why would a robot magically sprout wings and begin flying using those angelic wings? I'm in no position to say that those things do not fit one's teheme, but come on now... how many people actually would try to pass that off as themed?
Now for attacks... goodness... where do I start? Force Geyser. Ebon Ruin. Unleashed Rage. Strafing Run. Rimefire Burst. Mental Storm. Two Gun Mojo. Shadow Strike. Once again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with picking any of these powers. You want to use a Darkness themed build that has a some form of control with it? Go ahead and use Ebon Ruin. Are you a powerhouse Might build that needs to release his rage at times? Use that Unleashed Rage to its fullest. Are you an Ice/Fire wizard? Rimefire Burst is the spike for you. You can see what I'm getting at, and I understand some people might want to be some type of Dark Gunslinger dude. That's fine, but there's just no reason for so many people to want to combine all of these powers in one build.The only theme I can see that would make a lot of this stuff work together is someone
who evolves to the situation and simply becomes the strongest being who ever lived at all times. But seriously, that'd be just about everyone in the PvP community on this game.
For some examples, let's use some of the chats I've had with people while I've played this game. A lot of people I know would consider their build themed when they use AoPM, Unleashed Rage, Mental Storm, Ebon Ruin, Force Geyser, Strafing Run, Rimefire Burst, and Two Gun Mojo all on the same build. (Okay, not all of those, but I've known people who have 4 of those 6 attacks on the same build. That just does not make sense.) A build like that was not made with the intention of just making a hero that gets the job done with what he had. Its purpose was to completely overpower anyone they fight while surviving extremely well while doing so. And I know that's the sole reason some people PvP, there is no stopping that, but it'd just be nice to see less of it while joining the Hero Games.
I guess another thing I'd like to accomplish with this thread is to encourage more people to simply try out what I would consider a themed build. Try using an offensive passive. Use an attack you don't see every day. Add a bunch of stealth and heals if you need to, but keep in mind that they should make sense for what you're going for in this theme.
To those of you who think I am only doing this because I do not enjoy losing, I do not care about my performance in this game as far as PvP goes. If I did, I'd be using all of the same stuff I see every day - not my themed melee build that I bring into the Hero Games and still do just fine with most of the time.
Thank you to those of you who bring themed builds into the Hero Games, and I encourage you to bring those themed builds into the Hero Games more often. A lot of you do not care about your scores, but I'd like you prove it by using builds that are extremely tough to get good scores with. Yes... there are those people that just decide to farm themed or "weaker" builds in Bash and whatnot, but Bash should be avoided for the most
part in my opinion, and we should stop worrying about getting "bad" scores in it. There are no rewards or recorded stats in PvP, so what's the matter with just doing it for fun? Sadly some people's definition of fun is winning, and losing all the time isn't fun, sure. But taking PvP in this game to heart is a mistake at this point in time. Just do it for kicks.
And thank you to those of you who read this whole rant of mine. I'm not requesting any of you to agree with me or to even listen to me. I just felt the neeed to share my thoughts when so many people seem to think the builds they use are themed or using themed builds are a lost cause.
I apologize for feeling the need to complain. I cannot help myself sometimes.
I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
Post edited by purin1 on
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Comments
Bombs away! I just wish they had traps that snare / root / hold players as that would fit me theme more than anything.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
^ A-Men! A-Frickin'-Men!
/claps+Cheers
~ Yours Truly
Groove Healin'
Yeah you're right, I'll probably go retcon again, aopm is boring.
Yes NW is a much better copy.
Much improve, much skill, much much.
Yes... Yes... Do that, yes? Yes!
"STOP STEALTH NUB"
But really...
What the hell is sters like did you ever have anything close to a theme?
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I have other toons too u know...and no, I hate NW, still using aopm on Sters, electric form + teddy gun on Lyum. Living in the PH atm ;-o
Sters used to be a shadow form stealth spam build pre alert (sters=deleted in Romanian and my roommate was Romanian at the time, it is also an acronym of Stergios, acc name was @igotbigdick at the time, and the costume was hillarious...till I got banned because of the handle ;-).
So yes, there used to be a theme, but winning used to be funnier 'till now...
That problem is annoying in two ways. First you're not efficient, that is either accepted or rejected depending of people, and second you don't tend to get the bang for your buck when you expect it especially when facing other people. So long I've looked to get into epic melee fights against opponents of my R.H.I.N.O.'s caliber for the sake of having something interesting to watch just to find out that this giant dark dragon will be running and jumping like a spaz and tickle me with Ebon Ruin, disappointing.
Powers have very little to do with this and sometimes even combinations can happen to not matter because when one builds to win, the costumes can just go to hell and it will end up with a tall and dark guy with a hood hiding the entire face, dark aura and spiky stuff or some monstrousity in beast stance.
Back then it was more than just an excuse or a taunt when facing opponents such as 'hey I changed that power noone gives a crap about so it fits my theme'. You'd want to get attached to your characters, think of what they'd be doing when fighting and try to build as close to these pictured thoughts as possible.
A two weeks old player can do what the rest of you long-time try-harders are actually doing and it's only a matter of time before he gets the upper hand on you one day. Why not think about it and decide to completly screw that pointless quest for nonexistant fame?
It especially sounds a little silly when you're basically saying "I'm just trying to convince you to actually be the hero you want to be because I think you're not being the hero you want to be because of reason X".
Just lead by example, and don't concern yourself with whether or not people are following.
Trust me, people taking different powers with different graphics that still do the same thing just weaker wouldn't actually make PvP that much more interesting. Also, stop spending so much time in PvP scrutinizing other peoples' appearances and wether their powers match that appearance... ya big fashionista u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The problem is that people don't pick powers because it's the hero they want to be but some people instead pick powers because they see someone else using them. They feel forced to do this after they find that nothing they actually want actually works and is in any way viable.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
But if what you say is true, that means that Lucidity is right.
You wanna be do that? ... cause... I'll watch.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You act as if this is some Revelation or something discovered by Lucy !?
It has been pretty obvious for some time to many players including yourself no doubt. It's just some choose to not see it as an issue because they know some of these players and turned a blind eye to the reasons behind their power selections - And are probably a part of the crew and don't wish to speak against them, which is understandable.
It's also understandable that players CAN choose w/e they want. But Dang, I mean they're a Freeform, why pick overly-used powers all packed into one build. I just don't understand this >.<
So many Ideas that can be fun and had in Hero Games such as the following:
Paladin type with heavy weapons bubbles/heals and Ascension
Shaman type with lightning/wind and sigils
Hunter type with archery and wolves
Mage type with Fire/Ice
Warlock type with ebon ruin
Robot type with cascade and something something
The list goes on ...
We know that no one can actually tell players what to do with their choices of powers. I mean, it's their right to pick what they want even if copied. And they likely don't care what others may think too.
- Either way, they're POO! -
~ Groove Healin'
Now I feel like Poo!
[edit] for colors woot colors
No, not at all.
Lucidity is the meaning of irony, infact even their name is ironic. The fact they say this stuff is ironic because it is actually fairly clear they still attempt to be viable and technically copy people.
They always use dragons wrath on their melee which is arguably the most viable melee attack and they always used MD / ego surge / passives such as NW or invulnerability or even AOPM / conviction / bionic shielding. Basically it's just one big ball of Brou's wit.
EDIT: Oh shhhhh... speak of the devil and they shall appear. I can see this comment being removed too now, too bad.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
It's the same thing over and over. Only things that change are the people claiming to be unique and stuff. "You, you're copying! What about me? Nah, it's only sheer coincidence if I share the same passive and attacks and defense and character outfits."
If anything the ones having a problem with copying are more likely doing the same but with a different and meaningless power to break the routine and to use as an excuse, it's an issue concerning themselves and how they show off to people.
I hope biff leaves the comments. This forum section is long overdue for some entertainment.
I like how a relatively serious thread turned into a typical hero games thread.
All we need is
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
It seems like lately people can't even mention PvP without there being an outbreak of this kind of salty hate speech. Considering that the majority of the actualy frequent pvpers have become much less competitive, and as a result are fairly casual in their attitudes towards each other, I have to wonder what is causing all this hate.
Personally it just sounds to me like the same old salty "They only win because they do bad things" nonsense you hear in any game with pvp. The irony is, if these people would just calm down and stop with the hate speech, then the majority of the "negative behaviour" they see going on would go away... because it's mostly in their head at this point.
Nowadays you have to downright demand that people pick on you for being weak... and even then the majority of the time they won't do it. People won't even be pvp jerks if you ask them to anymore. Even some of the people that I knew to be pvp jerks in the past have just... well, they just stopped being pvp jerks. It's kind of amazing really... like almost overnight they went from "MUSTHATEKILLALL" to "Let's just have a good time and take it easy on the casuals".
Yes, people still use "that build"... you know.. that build, the one with all the powers? I listed them once (and for some reason a lot of the people who at that time tried to say that wasn't the list are now complaining about that list being used too much... lol, hero games forum). But that's not the players' fault... don't hate the players because the game is badly tuned.
The notion that people who do whatever they can to win at pvp are bad is only slightly less bizarre than the fact that many people have actually stopped doing whatever they can to win.
Then again, all the pvp haters probably don't realize this has occured, because they almost never pvp... so how could they know that anything has changed when their only evidence of what's going on comes from their memories?
pif paf
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You know.. i sincerely worry when I hear someone talking that much about children with that particular tone. Maybe we should call the authorities.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It took you that long just to tell me that I'm a psycho? Well at least we finally get something from you that isn't some regurgitated chunk of memes in a one liner.
Your whole thing would be valid if the community was vast. Right now we're a bunch of people shooting
eachother because it's all that's left. Every one of us have been at the top of the heap one moment or another. How does it feel? Good. Then indifferent. It's the same as if you were buried six feet under as an AT and that's where the whole thing becomes questionnable. There's absolutely NOTHING to see there. Call me all the names you want but if you see a point in doing the exact reverse of what you've quoted I'd like you to share it.
In what concerns my negative sight of the whole thing, let's face it: Remove that and what do you have left in here? Taunts and insults in one side as it's always been, and a friendly and helpful and 'fun' part that literally STINKS of a disgustingly corrupted socialistic stench. Of course it's a bad thing to say. I'm such a bad person.
By the way, it took 4 months for a good chunk of the said 'jerks' to be dragged back in coPvP, not a night. I was amongst the ones dragging them back in. Of course it's just better to just spit at will, right?
I don't remember calling you anything... as you might notice, Luci stole my avatar (she's my #1 fan you know, since I made her the most mad ~_^), so maybe you got the posts mixed up.
I don't see why. Can you explain the connection between the population needing to be large and players becoming more casual?
Again, I don't really see what your point is. We have all the same pvp things now that we had several years ago... so what is it that you're reffering to when you say that it's "all that's left"? If you're reffering to the players that are still pvping, why is their quantity the reason that were shooting each other?
I thought the whole point of pvp was for people to be shooting at each other?
The point being I like to do what I want to do, and I don't let winning or losing get in the way of that. Maybe winning/losing is very important to you, but as has been shown by what people have been queing with lately, it's becoming less important to more people.
Also, I didn't call you any names. Are you reading luci's post with my avatar again?
Not sure why you think you're a bad person.. I think you're just having trouble letting go of the past due to old wounds. The good news is, these are the kinds of wounds that can actually disappear very quickly if you just stop thinking about how much they hurt all the time.
You misunderstood what I was saying in that part of my post. I wasn't talking about people starting to pvp again after having stopped; I was talking about people who had been previously very hardcore and all about win-at-any-costs rather suddenly adopting a more casual and newb-friendly attitude
I'm not sure what you mean about spitting. Did they add a new spitting powerset?
Obligatory corny saying: Holding on to the angst of the past has never helped to pave a road for the future.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nope, I didn't.
Repetitiveness. Desperation.
If it was less important, people wouldn't be stuck up with their stuff. Let's see... Oh look at what the OP is meaning.
I definitely don't recommend you a psychologist carrier because you really screwed up right there. How did you even get there? :rolleyes:
They were in the same pack.
I really don't know if you tried to be a jerk or to be serious but... You should stop that. Goodnight.
Could you point out where I called you names then? I went over the thread and couldn't find a single example of anything like that.
I'll assume you didn't answer the question because you don't have an answer.
Not sure what you mean by "stuck up with their stuff"... what is this "stuff" that they are stuck up with? What does that even mean?
The OP is encouraging people to play theme builds... what is it that you think he "is meaning" with this?
I'm not sure what you think a psychologist "carrier" has to do with this. It doesn't take any sort of special education to understand the concept of people getting their feelings hurt over PvP and holding on to that hurt for a long time. Some of us got over it and moved on though.
Maybe some were, maybe some weren't. It's actually irrelevant, because whether they were or weren't, it doesn't serve as a counterpoint to the point that I made.
I should stop what? Get some rest.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Beat mrgame in a duel using teddy gun...the PMS won't stop coming...seriously people need to see PvP as a game at some point.
Also, what is up with these PvP SG's that cooperate/coordinate in Hero Games? Not that I am a very avid PvP player, especially lately, but I remember in the early days of CO when any kind of "premade" group was a cardinal sin. Now it seems to be business as usual. It's extremely self-defeating if you are interested in a healthy PvP community.
P.S. I like this mrf0rz1 fellow. The PvP community needs more like him.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
That's just your cynicism talking, and it's also not realistic. These vets know that no matter what they do, others are gonna get salty over pvp and leave no matter what (after all, there's no build that will make the que bug go away, and bash is inherently a salt factory).
Funny, the only people I see actually talking about and caring about this stuff are the people who seem to be upset that others are focusing on these things. Curious isn't it?
Of course it doesn't work. That's because when you tell PvPers "You should just play the hero you want to be!" they respond quite simply "Um... we already are."
No apologies needed, but I do remember having the same mindset as you where I wanted to always characterize pvpers as being bad, and the community as being rotten, and make all these claims about the things that other players were doing. Trust me, once you get over it (and yourself), and just learn to smile about the whole thing, you'll quickly lose that "angry grandpa" demeanor despite the fact that nothing around you will have actually changed.
All the frustration? You're doing it to yourself.
Fair enough. See you in hero games
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The rest is converted into obnoxious jokes being repeated morning and night because apparently it's "cool" to do so.
Now I don't recall you ever cared about my particular case except for your attempts to salt the nonexistant wounds all that time before. The fact that I'm angry all the time doesn't mean I'm not going to help people or be a nuisance.
He whined about CO being broken in every way imaginable before it was cool!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Seriously, I can't steal that prefix from you.
*insert grumpy cat here*