test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Updated thoughts on dodge changes (long read, RUN!)
kenpojujitsu3
Posts: 1,320 Arc User
After reading the forums for weeks and talking to people who spent extensive time testing as well as people who did/could not I decided I should probably take another look at the dodge changes on the chance that I was missing just how much harder it made the game.
I took every toon I have a build posted for and ran them through various tests over the last week plus and made some tweaks to many of them as I saw fit. All of the tweaks were for increasing Offense, Defense, Crit Chance, Crit Severity or some combination of these, none of the changes were dodge related. For those keeping score, that's 53 builds representing every passive in the game except for Lightning Reflexes, Medical Nanites and Personal Force Field. I'll get to those when I level cap the characters using them. For those interested, the freeform directory in my signature can lead you to all of these builds, just scroll down to my section and click a link.
The tests I ran were as follows:
1) Setting the powerhouse to hard, 5 man, DEMON and running it solo. This was the old standard "Kenpo seal of approval" I did on builds before posting them. I got away from that because it seemed to be a waste of time with people constantly demanding I record videos to "prove it" every time I modified a build because they couldn't see how it could be done. I decided to come back to this test but no new videos as it's too time consuming for me at present. It's a good test of surviving a large amount of sustained damage, killing a large number of mobs, dealing with unmitigated fall damage and a few other things.
2) Setting the powerhouse to hard, 5 man, Purple Gang and running it solo. While playing on my Electric Form toon Storm Bringer I noticed that Purple Gang were hitting her harder than DEMON. This is likely do to their attacks having a higher frequency and less gaps between attacks than DEMON but upon noticing this I ran all the toons through this test as well for much the same reasons as test number 1 with a new variable.
3) Alerts. I ran alerts to see how the toons would respond when suffering the gutted effectiveness that the alert sidekicking system subjects characters to that are above level 30 as well as all the...unpredictability that comes with PUGs.
4) Lair and/or AP's set to Elite, run solo. Self explanatory.
What I observed...was not much of anything really useful to convince me the difficulty went up. Everything was either just as easy as before or I had to use an heal/active defense that I had all but forgotten every so often.
Notes:
-Most of my toons are geared with Heroic or Mercenary gear and R5 mods. Very few use R6-7 mods and/or Legion gear. So there goes any notion of uber gear making all things possible.
-I don't use devices in testing and very rarely do I use one in gameplay. So nope, no ultra powerful devices skewing things.
-Every passive used in a tested build passed all tests. I will revisit the untested passives at some point but so far all passives have proven to be capable to be built around for a variety of concepts to get through pretty much any of the content in the game.
-21 of 53 builds are using dodge in the form of dodge gear and/or a dodge passive. This is the same number of builds that were using dodge before the patch. So these builds are still viable despite the dodge adjustment and another 32 builds are viable despite not having dodge anyway.
-11 of 53 builds are using a Defensive Passive. Not surprising but here we go. Defensive passives can soak up damage, news at 11.
-34 of 53 builds are using an Offensive Passive. The majority of my builds are offensive passives so there goes the notion that offensive passives are somehow not viable now. Small note. Of the 21 builds using dodge, one is using a Support Passive and at least two are using Defensive Passives. That leaves 18 offensive builds using dodge and 14 offensive passive builds that aren't. So there goes the other notion that Offensive Passive builds need dodge to function.
-7 of 53 builds are using a Support Passive. Only one of these is using dodge so there goes the notion that Support Passive builds need dodge to function.
-1 of 53 builds is using the Hybrid Passive. This build is not using dodge.
So in a nutshell. People are saying the dodge adjustment makes the game nearly impossible and makes toons look like...
...but from what I can tell the game still looks like...
...so as far as I'm concerned a lot of the more extreme statements made over the last weeks I can treat like so...
I took every toon I have a build posted for and ran them through various tests over the last week plus and made some tweaks to many of them as I saw fit. All of the tweaks were for increasing Offense, Defense, Crit Chance, Crit Severity or some combination of these, none of the changes were dodge related. For those keeping score, that's 53 builds representing every passive in the game except for Lightning Reflexes, Medical Nanites and Personal Force Field. I'll get to those when I level cap the characters using them. For those interested, the freeform directory in my signature can lead you to all of these builds, just scroll down to my section and click a link.
The tests I ran were as follows:
1) Setting the powerhouse to hard, 5 man, DEMON and running it solo. This was the old standard "Kenpo seal of approval" I did on builds before posting them. I got away from that because it seemed to be a waste of time with people constantly demanding I record videos to "prove it" every time I modified a build because they couldn't see how it could be done. I decided to come back to this test but no new videos as it's too time consuming for me at present. It's a good test of surviving a large amount of sustained damage, killing a large number of mobs, dealing with unmitigated fall damage and a few other things.
2) Setting the powerhouse to hard, 5 man, Purple Gang and running it solo. While playing on my Electric Form toon Storm Bringer I noticed that Purple Gang were hitting her harder than DEMON. This is likely do to their attacks having a higher frequency and less gaps between attacks than DEMON but upon noticing this I ran all the toons through this test as well for much the same reasons as test number 1 with a new variable.
3) Alerts. I ran alerts to see how the toons would respond when suffering the gutted effectiveness that the alert sidekicking system subjects characters to that are above level 30 as well as all the...unpredictability that comes with PUGs.
4) Lair and/or AP's set to Elite, run solo. Self explanatory.
What I observed...was not much of anything really useful to convince me the difficulty went up. Everything was either just as easy as before or I had to use an heal/active defense that I had all but forgotten every so often.
Notes:
-Most of my toons are geared with Heroic or Mercenary gear and R5 mods. Very few use R6-7 mods and/or Legion gear. So there goes any notion of uber gear making all things possible.
-I don't use devices in testing and very rarely do I use one in gameplay. So nope, no ultra powerful devices skewing things.
-Every passive used in a tested build passed all tests. I will revisit the untested passives at some point but so far all passives have proven to be capable to be built around for a variety of concepts to get through pretty much any of the content in the game.
-21 of 53 builds are using dodge in the form of dodge gear and/or a dodge passive. This is the same number of builds that were using dodge before the patch. So these builds are still viable despite the dodge adjustment and another 32 builds are viable despite not having dodge anyway.
-11 of 53 builds are using a Defensive Passive. Not surprising but here we go. Defensive passives can soak up damage, news at 11.
-34 of 53 builds are using an Offensive Passive. The majority of my builds are offensive passives so there goes the notion that offensive passives are somehow not viable now. Small note. Of the 21 builds using dodge, one is using a Support Passive and at least two are using Defensive Passives. That leaves 18 offensive builds using dodge and 14 offensive passive builds that aren't. So there goes the other notion that Offensive Passive builds need dodge to function.
-7 of 53 builds are using a Support Passive. Only one of these is using dodge so there goes the notion that Support Passive builds need dodge to function.
-1 of 53 builds is using the Hybrid Passive. This build is not using dodge.
So in a nutshell. People are saying the dodge adjustment makes the game nearly impossible and makes toons look like...
...but from what I can tell the game still looks like...
...so as far as I'm concerned a lot of the more extreme statements made over the last weeks I can treat like so...
________________________________________________
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Post edited by kenpojujitsu3 on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The only times my character dies with any regularity is in Alerts, because usually people don't want to go first. If my Masterful Dodge is on cooldown, and I run in and am taking all the shots for a while, I'll most likely chew some concrete.
But that I would expect from any passive, the way I build. To me, a guy who doesn't really look at numbers, the game feels the same.
If the builds are VERY similar and you're seeing drastically different results then the likely cause of the issue is located somewhere between the keyboard and the chair. A small build deviation will not result in that many more deaths unless you did something really dumb with said deviation.
Get more familiar with general building synergy, be smart about how you approach and handle combat and just stop sucking. It really is that simple.
inb4 I get edited for hurting delicate sensibilities
Before the change:
My Munition/TK Blade build Guardian NeXtday has 5000 HP Sharp, every single mob that's above Super Villain could OHKO her with ease. However, Using a Combo of Orbital Cannon/2GM/Lead Tempest/Ego Blade Frenzy she can bring down anyone shortly so it's even. She don't have any active offense or defenses.
After the Change:
My Munition/TK Blade build Guardian NeXtday has 5000 HP Sharp, every single mob that's above Super Villain could OHKO her with ease. However, Using a Combo of Orbital Cannon/2GM/Lead Tempest/Ego Blade Frenzy she can bring down anyone shortly so it's even. She don't have any active offense or defenses.
So yeah, the game is balanced, move along.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...the ultimate Contrast Moe (or not).
That's because player ability still factors in to how successful you're going to be... now more so since players no longer have an unreasonably high amount of passive mitigation to carry them through.
I mean hey, they could try to completely remove that player factor so that you and Kenpo will always have the same results so long as you're using the same build... but that would mean removing our ability to actually control our characters and causing them to act autonimously in whatever is the most efficient fashion for the given build.
As it turns out, the difference between "doing just fine" and "faceplanting constantly" might actually be caused by the difference between "plays defensively" and "runs in face first with their hands down".
Yes, I know that some people find it offensive that they have to play their "superheroes" defensively...but oddly enough, the willingness of the player to play in that fashion is the reason their hero stands looking super heroic atop a pile of npc corpses... and the unwillingness of other players to do so is the reason their character is laying on the ground beneath the feet of those npcs, looking very unsuper.
Now... after all this time of people telling me "if you want challenging content, just gimp yourself"... I've finally decided to contribute something back to the other side:
If you want to just face tank everything, and feel like the invincible superman superhero, just fight mobs that are several levels lower than yourself.
Happy hunting!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Have you tried copying the build verbatim? Do that and see if you're more survivable. If you are, then the changes you've made to your character were not a good move - maybe just for leveling up, maybe not. If you're not more survivable, then you might be playing the character wrong.
Not all build choices are going to be great. I once made a character with the idea in mind that she was just going to use blast attacks of several different sets. Now, I'm not trying to brag, but most of the times in Smash Alerts, it would be very rare for me to not aggro the boss once, and these are on leveling-up builds (and we've all seen how terribly I build anyway). This blast character could not aggro the boss at all, and every single Smash (Dockside Dustup Black Fang) failed. Again, not trying to brag or say that I'm the cornerstone of any alert. What I'm saying is that it was a crap-**** build.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
I'm actually just trying to help you. Trying to narrow down what the problem is with an elimination process.
You are telling me that you are trying to "see" a difference? Don't make me laugh. What exactly would be "seeing it" to you? Are you expecting to faceplant immediately and if you don't then all the numbers people posted about the nerf are invalid?
If YOU don't see it =/= it not there. You want to show that there is no difference or whatever, bring forth numbers. IF you can't show it with numbers then spare me the nonsense of seeing your feelings proliferated around as if they were the truth.
Numbers don't lie but "feelings" and "impressions" they are inherently biased. How do you expect me to quantify your "it's ok" ? And how come you have the impression that YOU can decide what is OK and what is NOT? It's one thing to state your opinion it's another to claim it as the truth and belittle everyone else who brought numbers forth to prove it.
The OP proves nothing except that in YOUR opinion everything is fine. But YOU claim that it is not only your opinion but it being the TRUTH? That is beyond absurd. Show me the numbers to back up your "feelings" and "impressions".
Here are my #'s.
Number of times I've attempted Gravitar since the patch: about 20.
Number of different toons used: about 10 (out of my 15 40's).
Number of times the team has failed so far: 0
Win %: 100%
My overall gameplay experience has changed marginally, if at all. That's my "impression" that is also supported by my "numbers".
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Yes of course and you also soloed Gravitar right. OH wait!!
It's apparent that you have no idea of testing because if you did you would realize that what you showed above is worthless.
Here is a couple of reasons why:
1. Other players -> you don't fight Gravitar alone
2. Team play -> how players work together in each PUG/Premade is different
3. Different builds -> you don't know what combination of builds you end up being teamed with and how they helped you
4. The level of the players (how many lvl 40s and how many below?)
etc...
There are a lot more factors to list and each one of those in itself is a BIAS towards you trying to obtain reliable information.
There is too much going on there to be able to tell anything, especially something like a dodge nerf since dodge itself is a RND so you never know.
BTW: Those "numbers" are as informative as 1235681568465321. You were just being pedantic about the word "numbers". You knew what I meant and intentionally gave BS "numbers" just to show how "smart" you are in simply bringing up some made up BS.
The post is titled "Updated thoughts on dodge changes." Obviously, HIS thoughts on it. The post is worded that it's all from his point of view. He tested HIS characters, HIS builds, and HIS opinions on other people's complaints.
Personally, I believe him. I've never seen the guy be dishonest with anyone. He's not posting any facts other than what his tests yielded.
So... yeah. No need to get all huffy.
You're asking him to give you numbers to quantify his play experiences? If one's play experience doesn't feel noticeably different post-nerf than it did pre-nerf, how exactly is one supposed to express that in numbers? What exactly are these numbers supposed to prove? What numbers will prove his experiences with the game post-nerf will qualify as a satisfactory answer here? Did you think this question through before you posted or is this a knee-jerk reaction to reading how someone didn't find the dodge nerf to be the apocalyptic event most of the vocal idiots were claiming it was going to be?
How does his experience disprove that there is an issue? How does HIS experience disprove others experience?
There is no point to this post except saying that he simply does not see there is a difference. There is also no need to post a wall of text saying basically the same thing he's been saying all this time.
It's not about being dishonest it's about things like "feelings".
If I say something like "I feel perma Eruption is ok" does that make it OK?
Point was that if he wants to say something meaningful and prove a point there have to be numbers involved.
Player "experience" can only go so far since DODGE is RNG so you can't test those tings unless you SET UP a TESTING ENVIRONMENT. Same with software, there is unit testing, integration testing and system testing (some other testings as well). None of those can be done by "impressions/feelings/experience" because only Extremely obvious problem can bee seen by such methods and nothing else.
How about we balance this game on "feelings" from now on. I don't "feel" like it's ok, you feel it's ok then we count the number of ok's and not ok's and that tells us what it is.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
No, but it means that you feel it is ok.
No, actually that is not true. He does not need numbers to say something meaningful, and he made no claim to be proving any point beyond the fact that the dodge changes are not significantly impacting his characters....and he provided all of the numbers needed to prove that.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
This is pretty much a cheap shot based on his "feelings" towards anyone who thinks that the dodge changes are not ok.
Show me a post of someone who thinks that the changes are not ok that does/did the same.
Re: the build in question, the problems are a direct result of the changes that were made. Those changes broke synergies and then the build that was copied from was blamed rather than the alterations. From what I was told the way the build was played was also completely counter to how the build was designed...
As much as you run your fingers it's amusing seeing you post anything about someone else making a cheapshot. As it stands it wasn't a cheapshot. It's called humor, sense of. Get one.
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Wait, are we talking about specific power here? I'm talking about dodge from gear.
If you go LR + EM + all the dodge power buffs you can get your hands on and use that to prove dodge is OK then I call BS on that.
It's the same as all those people who post numbers based on toons fully decked in Legion;s + R9 + Vigilante = > How many people run this?
Again, It might be true that you can get that high if you want to but it's only VERY specific builds who CAN not EVERYONE.
So what now, if one build can do that it should ruin it for all the others? + most of those dodge buffs are melee only (MA tree).
The problem with your test is, it missed a vital point: the character sheet. No one is interested in actual gameplay performance. It's that sheet that counts. And the numbers there went down.
Also stop trying to tell people, that chars without any kind of dodge are not affected by dodge changes. That's just ridiculous.
Next time you test something try less logic and more doom please.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
I could say the same to you. Since when is something like that humor?:rolleyes:
Stop getting offended at pictures that weren't aimed directly at you and you might figure it out.
This. Especially the second half, on most of my builds I rarely, wait, scratch that, I never use my Active Offensives or Defensives in normal combat situations. I have about 18 level 40s and pre-patch tested them all in 5 Man Hard Purple Gang (since their damage type tends to be the most prevalent in game) on PTS.
Mentella - Relies on reactive healing (healing from enemies) and minor self healing to survive and was admittedly quite dependant on dodge, since as a 4.4kHP Crowd Controller, a dedicated build can limit defensive options and specs. The result was that I actually had to use my secondary heal a few times as well as my active defensive. Uses Congress of Selves.
ForceGirl - Relies on Personal Force Field to keep herself alive. Was impacted somewhat by dodge changes but is perfectly playable as long as I watch out what I agro. ("Perfectly Playable" = I can survive but with PFF currently buggy, it can be a pain sometimes)
Techna Ology - Only issue is my pets acting up from time to time, AoRP keeps me nice and toasty.
Joule - Electric Form, no survival issues since DPS and crit power have risen from change.
Psion The Psinister - Ego Form, PvE. Still able to win a BASH match or two with the changes, I just need to use more than two powers now :P
I'm not going to lie, I have felt the impact, but it just means I have to use powers either more often or utilize the specs I hardly ever use. (Like Locus for example).
I think it's mainly okay, IMO, but in some cases, it's just a changing of attacking or being a little more careful.
^ lawl.
From my experience, I haven't needed to change any of my builds like I was planning to.
I've run Warlord, Gravitar, Hi-Pan etc with Mentella, ForceGirl, Techna, Psion and others and I've just needed to dust off "Ye Olde block" once in a while.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Since there is no tag towards whom he was referring to anyone who is of a different opinion was targeted by that "joke" :rolleyes:
Oh and you stop being patronizing.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It's apparent that you don't yet understand that not all numbers have the same significance, and we apparently have different use cases that we are testing against. To me, what matters is my overall gameplay experience, which is essentially the same now as before the patch. My Gravitar statistics are 100% germane to that use case.
You apparently have an entirely different, but undefined, use case that has to do with DPS and dodge %'s before and after the patch. Things that, in a vacuum, generally have little to do with most people's enjoyment of the game (unless they are a little OCD). But if that's what's important to you, more power to you. However, it's naive to try to state that other people's requirements and corresponding test cases must be the same as yours.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
^beautiful.
Then I think that's your issue then. Gear should not be able to undermine the performance of powers. Gear is there for a supplemental effect to already existing powers to make the powers better.
So I run 27% dodge chance (standing) on my PFF tank from gear alone. That's perfectly okay since he also has his PFF. For more survivability, I user more supplemental effects such as: Evasive Maneuvers, Lead Tempest (Tread Softly), Unbreakable, Breakaway Shot, Field Surge, and Fluidity to further bolster his defenses.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and you're entitled to share it with as many people as you want.
Why does it have to be about proving a point? He's sharing his personal thoughts. At no point does it come across as calling anyone else a liar for thinking otherwise. He basically said that since he's proven to himself that all his characters of all different builds and passives can do just fine, that he's not going to pay attention to further complaints about it.
Didn't he say his testing environment was Powerhouse, 5-man DEMON and Purple Gang, solo? Surely there's no point-by-point written exam one has to take to be able to put together a report of how the game feels for you, right?
Who's balancing the game on feelings? Who said he's the decision maker around here? He's simply posting his opinion, just like he and you are entitled to.
It's not patronizing, it's telling you what you don't want to hear. Here's some other things you may not want to hear:
Dodge-granting abilities took a hit and the game didn't implode, players on average are still enjoying the game, the world continues to spin, PvP is unbalanced, cows go moo and some Champs players can't be pleased.
inb4 someone finds this to be both insulting and offensive
Also, i must say I'm in favor of a nerf. Maybe not to the extreme of this one, but hey, it's done.
I have run LR builds since launch. (Yeah, i know... you can stop laughing now) But, i love Daredevil, Spider-man type builds. To say after the nerf, things are pretty much the same is a joke. They are not. Not even close. Can i still do the things i used too? Sure. It's a bit harder, but that's OK. But the same? NO!
I have had to make adjustments just to get my toons anywhere close to what they were before the nerf, and some of them are just SOL. And if people are having to do the same, that alone should tell you that things are not the same. Could it be denial? Could it be just only seeing what you want to see?
No idea. But testing has been done. Not just by me, but many others. The dodge nerf is real.
A real nerf people. It happened. People are being affected. For some it's no big deal. For some, as you can see it's a BIG deal. I don't discount anyone's experience in this matter.
Saying things are the same after the patch is just a FALSE statement to make.
Unless you can speak for everyone... That blanket statement should be kept to one's self IMO. If you are just saying crap to just be a jerk, than carry on. Doing a great job. "Doesn't affect me, therefore how could it affect other people" way of seeing things.
To those people you get the Middle finger. To those that can see beyond themselves and did actual testing, what do you think about the nerf change? Are your toons preforming the same? And if so, how? Do you have some numbers? Or was it harder against certain foes?
That's what i would like to know. Keep that biased bs to yourself and show me before and after results.
No need for me to laugh at that, I've been running PFF since launch. :biggrin:
I'm content with the change and my characters are performing better than before the change after small adjustments. Namely my PFF tank (even with the PFF regen bug going). Dropped Masterful Dodge and took Unbreakable. Significant increase in performance. He's capable of a sustained 61% dodge chance and a similar level of avoidance, so there was a drop but Fluidity makes up for it. Now if only they could fix PFF regen increasing while using Fluidity, that'd be great.
As for the rest of my characters, they were largely unaffected as I now have 4 characters that use dodge (Three of which were before the change) and the rest of my roster uses Offensive passives for the damage, not the defenses.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
PFF huh? Been here sine launch and never ever tried that passive. Interesting.
Still can't solo Gravitar. Still can defeat Cybermind solo. Grond still lands on me. Poe is still easy. Gangs in Westside are still only thugs. I still miss pressing the "Healt Up" button at the right moment. Gunfighter with Quarry and TGM still is the aggro magnet in Alerts and won't just die.
Missions still play on Elite like on Easy Mode.
But then again, i don't have have no datasheets or the numbers popping up on the screen to make it meaningfull.
Oh yeah, allmost forgot. Most of my builds are themed concepts.
And the missions are still the same old ones like in the Good Old Days before the On Alerts.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Freeforms will still steamroll stuff. AT's will have to work together more.
Is it a good or bad thing its all a matter of personal opinion.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
You're pissy about the dodge changes because you "feel" like you were shafted for the stuff you paid for.
Other people aren't as bothered by it.
Both of those are more subjective than "Every passive used in a test was able to pass all the tests after the changes. Sometimes this involved using an active defense or heal."
"Pass/Fail" is a valid type of testing too.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
Hey, you're the one talking about how much you die, not anyone else. You seem to be the one who thinks you're not skilled, since you make such a convincing case for it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I literally have not changed any of my characters' builds or gear since the last patch*.
Then again, my playstyle never involved sitting there and waiting for RNG to kick in and save my butt...since that sort of thing has a tendency to fail.
* - yes, I cheated because some of my characters already went dodgeless before the patch even hit.
On a side note, call me crazy but having 65% dodge and 77.5% avoidance, standing cold, on my LR character actually seems like a lot... did that whole thing get buffed somehow?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
No I said "feelings" are not a testing benchmark since they are entirely biased towards the individual. (read the context)
"Pass/Fail" is not a testing type, it's a conclusion you come to based on a series of criteria which are evaluated.
I'm curious to know how many were FFs and how many were ATs?
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
'You're crazy'.
Now, burn the blasphemer!!!
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I got the pitch forks and torches right here! :biggrin:
And his criteria were "Can this build clear the tests I've set for it without dying?"
Every one of them passed, after the dodge changes.
Are your builds unable to do content that they were able to do before the dodge change?
Or is it a matter of degree in difficulty? (These are genuine questions on my part)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
I completely agree. Dodge changes so far haven't been a game-changer for me. I actually did use a free retcon token on one toon... but not for Dodge-related reasons. I retconned her because I was unhappy with some choices of superstats and powers from before the recent changes.
In response to nightr0d:
While numbers are good, I think looking at only the numbers clouds the bigger picture. I trust actual gaming experience over looking at raw numbers. But even if I (or anybody) did have some raw numbers that showed the Dodge changes aren't even remotely disastrous, I doubt you'd believe them anyways. You come across as completely convinced of your view, and no amount of "proof" will be acceptable.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
How much of that is attributed to the powers/build he used.
There is no proof of how he engaged the fight nor what powers he had.
It proves nothing more than that his build + play style allowed him to clear the test. It says nothing about how much dodge was affected.
I do testing and debug code for a living (among other things). I know what I'm talking about since tracking down bug in thousands of lines of code written by someone is not something you can just do without setting yourself up a proper testing environment as well as having a systematic approach. It's the same thing here, without a proper environment to eliminate external factors you don't test dodge but test a build/play style.
I think that's around where my character is. I think the changes brought up the low end and brought down the high end. Or something.
Can't even nerf right!!!
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber