Wait, I hear mention of using Lead Tempest and Swinging Advantage to stack Dodge/Avoidance. Do these powers not get hit with DR now, to the point of being useless? I know before, if I used Advantaged Swinging, my Avoidance was lowered and dodge only went up like 1%
While its true that The Specialist AT has LR as its passive and would benefit from having the new Fluidity block in place of Parry. It is also worth noting that The Specialist technically has two block powers. Eye of the Storm...its description in the Tool Tip calls it a Damage Shield which is what the tool tips also call the other Slotted Block powers...and it does a really good job at what it does...it also has Lead Tempest and the option to take Masterful Dodge both of which can help buff the Dodge rating. So The Specialist will be fine...could use another healing option outside of the advantage on Hold Out shot...or get Hold Out shot sooner in the build...other than that...
The Master, on the other hand, see what I did there, has both Shuriken Storm and Masterful Dodge. It even has Bountiful Chi Resurgence (a heal). It even has Dragon Kick in the build. Dodge AND Avoidance buffing going on it should be relatively okay with these changes...
While its true that The Specialist AT has LR as its passive and would benefit from having the new Fluidity block in place of Parry. It is also worth noting that The Specialist technically has two block powers. Eye of the Storm...its description in the Tool Tip calls it a Damage Shield which is what the tool tips also call the other Slotted Block powers...and it does a really good job at what it does...it also has Lead Tempest and the option to take Masterful Dodge both of which can help buff the Dodge rating. So The Specialist will be fine...could use another healing option outside of the advantage on Hold Out shot...or get Hold Out shot sooner in the build...other than that...
The Master, on the other hand, see what I did there, has both Shuriken Storm and Masterful Dodge. It even has Bountiful Chi Resurgence (a heal). It even has Dragon Kick in the build. Dodge AND Avoidance buffing going on it should be relatively okay with these changes...
Another voice of sanity!
I do agree that Specialist would benefit from another heal or from Holdout Shot coming earlier.
I think the real problem people have is with their DPS passives being weaker like WoTW and Quarry and NW.
Well.. that and having to build around LR to make it great. Ya know. Like we used to have to do?
AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
I have a hybrid character that I switch from WotW to LR with (an occasional) Masterful dodge in tight spots. I'm wondering if that set up is now pointless... I'm not willing to pick up fluidity because its dodge probably wouldn't meld well with WotW, meaning I'd need an actual block that can... actually block damage. I assume that'd be fluidity's downside. It'd be useless outside a dodge tank or dodge oriented build?
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm well aware, but honestly I do feel it's a sledgehammer. Most people here do agree it's a sledge-hammer nerf. I've already talked to people who are going to LEAVE this game over just the dodge nerf. Yeah, they are not happy.
*yawns*
Ah huh... go on. Let's see if we can milk a "this game is dying" from ya.
AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
The only issue this might present would be to push people over 100% dodge chances from duplicative powers, and it's why I still think a soft dodge percentage cap at 95% (with activating MD being the one way around it) makes the most sense.
What was proposed quite a few times before these changes ever came in view, was to change the powers that add flat dodge percentages to adding dodge rating. This would give a much better handle on how much maximum dodge chance is reasonable. The only two powers that could have a flat dodge percentage are MD and LR.
Probably a fraction of a percent of players will leave. So 3 people?
Against for the millionth time, only people who hinged on stacking dodge will be effected by these changes. Glass canons shouldn't be tanks. Yes. They should be killed with one or two good hits if they aren't blocking. Don't like it, team up with a tank or healer.
Probably a fraction of a percent of players will leave. So 3 people?
Against for the millionth time, only people who hinged on stacking dodge will be effected by these changes. Glass canons shouldn't be tanks. Yes. They should be killed with one or two good hits if they aren't blocking. Don't like it, team up with a tank or healer.
Probably a fraction of a percent of players will leave. So 3 people?
This. It's mostly the same 4 or 5 people with a questionable grasp on game mechanics and balance that are threatening to leave and patting each other on the back whenever the dodge changes comes up. Seriously, take a look at the people for the dodge changes and the people against the dodge changes.
Now I wonder what the devs are going to tackle next...
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This. It's mostly the same 4 or 5 people with a questionable grasp on game mechanics and balance that are threatening to leave and patting each other on the back whenever the dodge changes comes up. Seriously, take a look at the people for the dodge changes and the people against the dodge changes.
Now I wonder what the devs are going to tackle next...
I'm betting they'll train a couple of guns on some mojo.
Probably a fraction of a percent of players will leave. So 3 people?
Against for the millionth time, only people who hinged on stacking dodge will be effected by these changes. Glass canons shouldn't be tanks. Yes. They should be killed with one or two good hits if they aren't blocking. Don't like it, team up with a tank or healer.
Tanks shouldn't do damage. They should take a considerable amount of time to kill their targets. Don't like it? Team up with a melee or ranged DPS.
Someone doesn't know what a good tank is as defined by.. oh.. every game in existence.
That was me being satirical. Of course, your petite understanding of the english language leaves such a gap, understandable.
What I was try to point out. DPS shouldn't be by default, glass cannons, and Tanks shouldn't be by default, horrible damage dealers. Cryptic (Gentleman_Crush) might think he's reaching a median, but we aren't close yet. Tanks deal too much damage and are virtually unkillable, while anyone who takes Con as a superstat (secondary or primary) is virtually unkillable in the majority of content. That being said, the majority of content is easy enough for an Inferno AT to handle. So therin lies several issues in itself.
I'm well aware, but honestly I do feel it's a sledgehammer. Most people here do agree it's a sledge-hammer nerf. I've already talked to people who are going to LEAVE this game over just the dodge nerf. Yeah, they are not happy.
Oddly enough these nerfs have me considering playing more regularly than I have since on Alert, and spending money on the game again (I stopped when on Alert hit).
wrong. so wrong, no one should be one or 2 shotted ever, save for things like gravitar's yellow bubble. healers should be nice to have but NEVER needed.
I do not like trinity play but something to keep in mind is that if a healer is not needed then they are not nice to have. If you do not need the healer then the group would have been better off with another DPS and so the healer is a net loss to the group's effectiveness.
That was me being satirical. Of course, your petite understanding of the english language leaves such a gap, understandable.
What I was try to point out. DPS shouldn't be by default, glass cannons, and Tanks shouldn't be by default, horrible damage dealers. Cryptic (Gentleman_Crush) might think he's reaching a median, but we aren't close yet. Tanks deal too much damage and are virtually unkillable, while anyone who takes Con as a superstat (secondary or primary) is virtually unkillable in the majority of content. That being said, the majority of content is easy enough for an Inferno AT to handle. So therin lies several issues in itself.
TL;DR. This game is unbalanced yo.
If you have to explain it's Satirical, it's not satire and instead comes off as dickishness. Of course, your unfortunate lack of experience with social commentary leaves such a gap. Tragic, isn't it? Even worse when you must explain what you meant, little if any evidence to your insight being in the referred post.
To the actual matter at hand: I've yet to see a game that had tanks shafted in the damage department. A tank's job is to do 2 things as set forth by the law of RPGs.
1. Gain and Hold threat so the rest of the party does not take damage.
2. Soak as much damage as possible
Nowhere in it does it say that they are supposed to deal less damage than the others. Dealing less damage than the DPS causes tanks to have to work harder to keep threat. I can recall a time when an Arcane mage continued to take the threat from me with his spams (Blood DK at the time) simply because Damage always overrules Threat generation. Therein, it would be logical that a tank would be able to be on par with the DPS in terms of damage so that the DPS does not steal threat by dealing more damage (usually a LOT more too.).
This has a double edged sword, as the DPS and Healer roles do not say anything about lacking survivability. Instead it's simply "Deal as much damage as possible" and "Run around with Heals and buffs." respectively.
HOWEVER, there's the golden rule: Never make the others feel useless. You always have the potential to be a one man army, but should you? I can recall when you, Micky and I ran Whiteout and I questioned why I was even there as a PA tank. Both of you steamrolled it pretty quickly and shrugged off anything coming your way. Not to mention the Sword Cyclone spams completely crashed my comp.
Now to keep people from being useless, developers usually enact their own House Rules such as making DPS and Healers squishy and Tanks weaker in the damage department. HOWEVER, there are some games that absolutely throw this idea out the window for some special purposes (DK for instance is a Paragon of self heals, mitigation, and damage) or that keep it in mind but allow players to do what they want to hybridize. City of Heroes had power pools which could make a Tanker/Brute an ok healer as well. Not better than a dedicated healer in any way, but an ok one. I had my Corrupter decked with some of the tanking abilities from Presence and attacks from Fighting. Effectively making a Melee/Ranged Support Off-Tank.. The thing was.. you had to BUILD around that and sacrifice.
Now we have the DPS Tanks being essentially nerfed thanks to Crit chance being lowered (to a reasonable level, mind you) as well as Dodge DPSers undergoing the same thing. But you'll only be able to get it from gear and specs. In other words, you'll have to make sacrifice and choose. Just look at Dex Primary. With the changes, it will now be "Hmm.. Do I want to make my crits happen more or hurt more. Or I could do both but miss out on dodge and Avoidance. Or invert that.." Some will pick one way, some will pick another. We have diversity. Of course, you also need certain powers, as many have said, to get back to the abusive levels of dodge and avoid. But the regular levels are fine. So.. again.. sacrifice to become the "ubar l33t" you want to be. Balance comes to PvE and more builds are now viable in PvP.
AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
Wait, I hear mention of using Lead Tempest and Swinging Advantage to stack Dodge/Avoidance. Do these powers not get hit with DR now, to the point of being useless? I know before, if I used Advantaged Swinging, my Avoidance was lowered and dodge only went up like 1%
I asked about Flippin' advantage on Swinging and it wasn't deemed a large issue enough to severely impact dodge/avoid so AFAIK it has not been changed from it's current form.
I am not aware of any changes to Lead Tempest seeing as the buff it grants only lasts during the maintain period and not a second after or before, neither does it linger.
I do not like trinity play but something to keep in mind is that if a healer is not needed then they are not nice to have. If you do not need the healer then the group would have been better off with another DPS and so the healer is a net loss to the group's effectiveness.
Also this.
My point is that if you want to take down enemies fast with your high damage, there should be some risk involved. If you don't get taken down in a couple hits when you are built like a glass canon, it should be because you played smart and not because you threw on some gear. Gear that ought to play a minor role in your gameplay tactics, not determine your tankiness.
I am not aware of any changes to Lead Tempest seeing as the buff it grants only lasts during the maintain period and not a second after or before, neither does it linger.
I see Lead Tempest used as often as 2GM these days, because of the dodge bonus. It is pretty hefty if you are using Concentration. Some folks are able to execute the full maintain three or four times in a row, too.
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Now we have the DPS Tanks being essentially nerfed thanks to Crit chance being lowered (to a reasonable level, mind you) as well as Dodge DPSers undergoing the same thing. But you'll only be able to get it from gear and specs. In other words, you'll have to make sacrifice and choose. Just look at Dex Primary. With the changes, it will now be "Hmm.. Do I want to make my crits happen more or hurt more. Or I could do both but miss out on dodge and Avoidance. Or invert that.." Some will pick one way, some will pick another. We have diversity. Of course, you also need certain powers, as many have said, to get back to the abusive levels of dodge and avoid. But the regular levels are fine. So.. again.. sacrifice to become the "ubar l33t" you want to be. Balance comes to PvE and more builds are now viable in PvP.
This would be great if it were true.
Defensive passive, and tank role characters can still solo team content such as Gravitar, Teleiosaurus, and Lairs.
Some support passives will still be capable of doing the same.
This change hit high-end offensive passive users, and ATs. This will not increase build diversity, as now it will be even more required to build into mitigation using power points, and there are only so many of them. Look at Cyrone talking down the Dodge changes with a "Nothing to see here" however that's only the case if you're using munitions.
Now to keep people from being useless, developers usually enact their own House Rules such as making DPS and Healers squishy and Tanks weaker in the damage department. HOWEVER, there are some games that absolutely throw this idea out the window for some special purposes (DK for instance is a Paragon of self heals, mitigation, and damage) or that keep it in mind but allow players to do what they want to hybridize. City of Heroes had power pools which could make a Tanker/Brute an ok healer as well. Not better than a dedicated healer in any way, but an ok one. I had my Corrupter decked with some of the tanking abilities from Presence and attacks from Fighting. Effectively making a Melee/Ranged Support Off-Tank.. The thing was.. you had to BUILD around that and sacrifice.
Thing is, people did have to build for it. Gear selection is part of building a character. However, due to dev error, there was no reason to select anything but the Dodge/avoid gear. It was simply the strongest gear available, so the choice was alway obvious. Instead of making gear an interesting choice between powerful options, they made all the gear pretty much suck for anything other than boosting SSs.
The result of this change is Offensive passive with less growth potential than defensive or support passives, and many ATs with no ability to build outward, to compensate for lesser mitigation, end up being brained by the nerf-bat.
And what's done is done, so time to move on I guess.
Oddly enough these nerfs have me considering playing more regularly than I have since on Alert, and spending money on the game again (I stopped when on Alert hit).
I sort of feel the same, though not enough for me quite yet. Telepathy still stings. I left for a bit but still not sure if it ever got fixed.
I think these dodge changes have potential. While a lot of characters got messed up, that's the flaw of an open game system. Nerfs to keep balance. While I'm a bit disappointed, it actually has me considering making a dodge tank. When I actually decide to play that is.
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
You don't sound like you do, but he has a valid point. It's ten man team content in a game with only five man teams, why should anyone be able to solo it?
And don't bring up Cyrone or Silverspar; they can tank Gravitar on an Inferno.
____________________________________
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
offensive passives should have the same potential of survival as defensive ones IF you build for it.
I need to disagree, or at least question what you mean right here. If one builds to have the same potential of survival as a defensive build, are they not a defensive build? Offensive means you focus on offense. Defensive focuses on defense. No matter what, one will suffer in one way or another, and I am sure you know this already.
You cannot call your build an offensive build if you build to be as defensive as a defensive build. (At least not anymore with the dodge changes thankfully)
You don't sound like you do, but he has a valid point. It's ten man team content in a game with only five man teams, why should anyone be able to solo it?
And don't bring up Cyrone or Silverspar; they can tank Gravitar on an Inferno.
Again, cut tank damage to the point that they cannot solo the "Team" content, such as Gravitar, and that argument is dead.
But I got to say, going by the rhetoric from people who complaign that the game is too easy I'd have though anyone could tank Gravitar on an Inferno.
offensive passives should have the same potential of survival as defensive ones IF you build for it.
By that measure, defensive passives should have the same damage potential as offensive passives, if you build for it.
However, neither will ever be true, because anything you do to increase the survival potential of an offensive passive, you can add a defensive passive to, and it will be more survivable than the offensive was. Likewise damage with the defensive passive.
The only way that both can have the same survival potential is if you impose a hard cap that nobody can exceed, so that it becomes pointless to build past a certain point. Surely you aren't advocating that?
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
I do not like trinity play but something to keep in mind is that if a healer is not needed then they are not nice to have. If you do not need the healer then the group would have been better off with another DPS and so the healer is a net loss to the group's effectiveness.
Actually, not true. Yes, those cool dps fguys can just heal themselves... but if there's a healer in the party, then they dont have to heal themselves, meaning they can spend all their time dpsing like mad.
All my toons have some form of survival ability and don't need a healer... but I'm happy as heck when there is a healer for the reason I gave above, because I can just go completely nuts and nuke everything with wild abandon.
I'm especially happy when it's one of those cool all around support toons who heal me, buff me, and debuff my enemies. They might not be necessary, but they're definitely awesome to have around.
@Gradii: Then what is the point of using an "Offensive" passive or a "Defensive" passive if they can both achieve the same amount of damage or survivability?
@Gradii: Then what is the point of using an "Offensive" passive or a "Defensive" passive if they can both achieve the same amount of damage or survivability?
and offensive passives should have the same potential of survival as defensive ones IF you build for it.
Part of building for defense is taking defensive passive. Part for building for offense is taking offensive one.
Offensive passive should not be as durable as defensive ones. None of defensive passives gives you boosts to your attacks, in comparison.
Comments
The Master, on the other hand, see what I did there, has both Shuriken Storm and Masterful Dodge. It even has Bountiful Chi Resurgence (a heal). It even has Dragon Kick in the build. Dodge AND Avoidance buffing going on it should be relatively okay with these changes...
Another voice of sanity!
I do agree that Specialist would benefit from another heal or from Holdout Shot coming earlier.
I think the real problem people have is with their DPS passives being weaker like WoTW and Quarry and NW.
Well.. that and having to build around LR to make it great. Ya know. Like we used to have to do?
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
*yawns*
Ah huh... go on. Let's see if we can milk a "this game is dying" from ya.
What was proposed quite a few times before these changes ever came in view, was to change the powers that add flat dodge percentages to adding dodge rating. This would give a much better handle on how much maximum dodge chance is reasonable. The only two powers that could have a flat dodge percentage are MD and LR.
Against for the millionth time, only people who hinged on stacking dodge will be effected by these changes. Glass canons shouldn't be tanks. Yes. They should be killed with one or two good hits if they aren't blocking. Don't like it, team up with a tank or healer.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
This. It's mostly the same 4 or 5 people with a questionable grasp on game mechanics and balance that are threatening to leave and patting each other on the back whenever the dodge changes comes up. Seriously, take a look at the people for the dodge changes and the people against the dodge changes.
Now I wonder what the devs are going to tackle next...
I'm betting they'll train a couple of guns on some mojo.
Tanks shouldn't do damage. They should take a considerable amount of time to kill their targets. Don't like it? Team up with a melee or ranged DPS.
Someone doesn't know what a good tank is as defined by.. oh.. every game in existence.
That was me being satirical. Of course, your petite understanding of the english language leaves such a gap, understandable.
What I was try to point out. DPS shouldn't be by default, glass cannons, and Tanks shouldn't be by default, horrible damage dealers. Cryptic (Gentleman_Crush) might think he's reaching a median, but we aren't close yet. Tanks deal too much damage and are virtually unkillable, while anyone who takes Con as a superstat (secondary or primary) is virtually unkillable in the majority of content. That being said, the majority of content is easy enough for an Inferno AT to handle. So therin lies several issues in itself.
TL;DR. This game is unbalanced yo.
Oddly enough these nerfs have me considering playing more regularly than I have since on Alert, and spending money on the game again (I stopped when on Alert hit).
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I do not like trinity play but something to keep in mind is that if a healer is not needed then they are not nice to have. If you do not need the healer then the group would have been better off with another DPS and so the healer is a net loss to the group's effectiveness.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
If you have to explain it's Satirical, it's not satire and instead comes off as dickishness. Of course, your unfortunate lack of experience with social commentary leaves such a gap. Tragic, isn't it? Even worse when you must explain what you meant, little if any evidence to your insight being in the referred post.
To the actual matter at hand: I've yet to see a game that had tanks shafted in the damage department. A tank's job is to do 2 things as set forth by the law of RPGs.
1. Gain and Hold threat so the rest of the party does not take damage.
2. Soak as much damage as possible
Nowhere in it does it say that they are supposed to deal less damage than the others. Dealing less damage than the DPS causes tanks to have to work harder to keep threat. I can recall a time when an Arcane mage continued to take the threat from me with his spams (Blood DK at the time) simply because Damage always overrules Threat generation. Therein, it would be logical that a tank would be able to be on par with the DPS in terms of damage so that the DPS does not steal threat by dealing more damage (usually a LOT more too.).
This has a double edged sword, as the DPS and Healer roles do not say anything about lacking survivability. Instead it's simply "Deal as much damage as possible" and "Run around with Heals and buffs." respectively.
HOWEVER, there's the golden rule: Never make the others feel useless. You always have the potential to be a one man army, but should you? I can recall when you, Micky and I ran Whiteout and I questioned why I was even there as a PA tank. Both of you steamrolled it pretty quickly and shrugged off anything coming your way. Not to mention the Sword Cyclone spams completely crashed my comp.
Now to keep people from being useless, developers usually enact their own House Rules such as making DPS and Healers squishy and Tanks weaker in the damage department. HOWEVER, there are some games that absolutely throw this idea out the window for some special purposes (DK for instance is a Paragon of self heals, mitigation, and damage) or that keep it in mind but allow players to do what they want to hybridize. City of Heroes had power pools which could make a Tanker/Brute an ok healer as well. Not better than a dedicated healer in any way, but an ok one. I had my Corrupter decked with some of the tanking abilities from Presence and attacks from Fighting. Effectively making a Melee/Ranged Support Off-Tank.. The thing was.. you had to BUILD around that and sacrifice.
Now we have the DPS Tanks being essentially nerfed thanks to Crit chance being lowered (to a reasonable level, mind you) as well as Dodge DPSers undergoing the same thing. But you'll only be able to get it from gear and specs. In other words, you'll have to make sacrifice and choose. Just look at Dex Primary. With the changes, it will now be "Hmm.. Do I want to make my crits happen more or hurt more. Or I could do both but miss out on dodge and Avoidance. Or invert that.." Some will pick one way, some will pick another. We have diversity. Of course, you also need certain powers, as many have said, to get back to the abusive levels of dodge and avoid. But the regular levels are fine. So.. again.. sacrifice to become the "ubar l33t" you want to be. Balance comes to PvE and more builds are now viable in PvP.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
I asked about Flippin' advantage on Swinging and it wasn't deemed a large issue enough to severely impact dodge/avoid so AFAIK it has not been changed from it's current form.
I am not aware of any changes to Lead Tempest seeing as the buff it grants only lasts during the maintain period and not a second after or before, neither does it linger.
My Characters on PRIMUS
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This.
Also this.
My point is that if you want to take down enemies fast with your high damage, there should be some risk involved. If you don't get taken down in a couple hits when you are built like a glass canon, it should be because you played smart and not because you threw on some gear. Gear that ought to play a minor role in your gameplay tactics, not determine your tankiness.
I see Lead Tempest used as often as 2GM these days, because of the dodge bonus. It is pretty hefty if you are using Concentration. Some folks are able to execute the full maintain three or four times in a row, too.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
This would be great if it were true.
Defensive passive, and tank role characters can still solo team content such as Gravitar, Teleiosaurus, and Lairs.
Some support passives will still be capable of doing the same.
This change hit high-end offensive passive users, and ATs. This will not increase build diversity, as now it will be even more required to build into mitigation using power points, and there are only so many of them. Look at Cyrone talking down the Dodge changes with a "Nothing to see here" however that's only the case if you're using munitions.
Thing is, people did have to build for it. Gear selection is part of building a character. However, due to dev error, there was no reason to select anything but the Dodge/avoid gear. It was simply the strongest gear available, so the choice was alway obvious. Instead of making gear an interesting choice between powerful options, they made all the gear pretty much suck for anything other than boosting SSs.
The result of this change is Offensive passive with less growth potential than defensive or support passives, and many ATs with no ability to build outward, to compensate for lesser mitigation, end up being brained by the nerf-bat.
And what's done is done, so time to move on I guess.
I sort of feel the same, though not enough for me quite yet. Telepathy still stings. I left for a bit but still not sure if it ever got fixed.
I think these dodge changes have potential. While a lot of characters got messed up, that's the flaw of an open game system. Nerfs to keep balance. While I'm a bit disappointed, it actually has me considering making a dodge tank. When I actually decide to play that is.
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
You ever consider that there's a REASON for needing 10 people to Queue for Gravitar? In that it was intended to be played with a TEAM? :v
@Chimerafreek
You don't sound like you do, but he has a valid point. It's ten man team content in a game with only five man teams, why should anyone be able to solo it?
And don't bring up Cyrone or Silverspar; they can tank Gravitar on an Inferno.
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
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I need to disagree, or at least question what you mean right here. If one builds to have the same potential of survival as a defensive build, are they not a defensive build? Offensive means you focus on offense. Defensive focuses on defense. No matter what, one will suffer in one way or another, and I am sure you know this already.
You cannot call your build an offensive build if you build to be as defensive as a defensive build. (At least not anymore with the dodge changes thankfully)
And I won't have the Gravitar argument once a dev either:
1. Makes it so that defense passive users are incapable of killing her (Unlikely)
2. Improves offensive passives so that they once again have the same growth potential at high levels (Unlikely)
3. Say's "Sucks to suck, Colossus > Jubilee" and just ends the conversation there (Unlikely, but would be mildly entertaining)
The new status quo is most likely for a while at least.
Again, cut tank damage to the point that they cannot solo the "Team" content, such as Gravitar, and that argument is dead.
But I got to say, going by the rhetoric from people who complaign that the game is too easy I'd have though anyone could tank Gravitar on an Inferno.
By that measure, defensive passives should have the same damage potential as offensive passives, if you build for it.
However, neither will ever be true, because anything you do to increase the survival potential of an offensive passive, you can add a defensive passive to, and it will be more survivable than the offensive was. Likewise damage with the defensive passive.
The only way that both can have the same survival potential is if you impose a hard cap that nobody can exceed, so that it becomes pointless to build past a certain point. Surely you aren't advocating that?
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Actually, not true. Yes, those cool dps fguys can just heal themselves... but if there's a healer in the party, then they dont have to heal themselves, meaning they can spend all their time dpsing like mad.
All my toons have some form of survival ability and don't need a healer... but I'm happy as heck when there is a healer for the reason I gave above, because I can just go completely nuts and nuke everything with wild abandon.
I'm especially happy when it's one of those cool all around support toons who heal me, buff me, and debuff my enemies. They might not be necessary, but they're definitely awesome to have around.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
>:(
I saw that sneaky edit!
:biggrin:
That's not an opinion, it's the design of the encounter. If you can build something that can solo Gravitar, something is broken.
Offensive passive should not be as durable as defensive ones. None of defensive passives gives you boosts to your attacks, in comparison.