test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Complaints and the Solve
extramofil
Posts: 36 Arc User
Hi.
Since the new meta with legions-legacy devices launched, so many people took advantage of the legacy devices and it spreaded quickly because of its superiority over some powers and ability to complete specific builds (2gun mojo).
Now almost all of the community have at least 1 device in their device slots and they are almost necessary to match up with another device user's damage output.
There are so many users of these devices and there are complainers as much as them.
I hear so much of these line when I'm in game ;
"Devices ruined this game."
"X person can only win with devices."
"You are nothing without devices."
"No one ever uses actual powers anymore."
And I just witnessed someone call a decent pvper "device wh**e" which I think is so wrong. I qualify a pvper with his/her combat tactics/skills and even when that person is using devices you can catch the difference and actually understand its not the devices giving him victories.
But complainers miss few things ;
1-) Devices are a part of the game.
2-) There isnt any rule saying "you cant use devices in duels/bash!"
3-)They dont know how to counter devices.
Counter to devices are so simple and I'll share some ways to prevent/get over the device usage/spam.
1 -) Setting Your Rules Before Dueling
You can ask for a no devices duel before the duel starts. I dont know anyone who'd say no. This is a way to prevent device usage in duels. Most people dont ask about "no devices" then complain about how device owns them in duels. Seek solution, not complaint.
2 -) BLOCK
Yes. I'm kinda surprised how no one uses this againts Ice Grenades and Omicron Induced Strength and many others. I know some device freaks who'd spam 4xIce Grenades on you every 13 seconds and I reduce their spam to none with the usage of block.
There aren't many people with Crippling Challange so you can block anytime you want. I start blocking when I see my opponent activating Ice Grenades and surprise, I deflected an Ice Grenades
This is how you can get over the spam or the device usage. (You may have to use block frequently againts spammers with 3-4 ice nades-omicrons)
I use pretty much everything I stated above and have no problem with the device usage. 4x Ice Grenades or Omicron Induced Strength doesn't mean instant win and can be easily countered.
Gonna mention it again ;
Seek solution, not complaint.
Hope this thread helps , c'ya in game !
UntouchableSpetzii
Since the new meta with legions-legacy devices launched, so many people took advantage of the legacy devices and it spreaded quickly because of its superiority over some powers and ability to complete specific builds (2gun mojo).
Now almost all of the community have at least 1 device in their device slots and they are almost necessary to match up with another device user's damage output.
There are so many users of these devices and there are complainers as much as them.
I hear so much of these line when I'm in game ;
"Devices ruined this game."
"X person can only win with devices."
"You are nothing without devices."
"No one ever uses actual powers anymore."
And I just witnessed someone call a decent pvper "device wh**e" which I think is so wrong. I qualify a pvper with his/her combat tactics/skills and even when that person is using devices you can catch the difference and actually understand its not the devices giving him victories.
But complainers miss few things ;
1-) Devices are a part of the game.
2-) There isnt any rule saying "you cant use devices in duels/bash!"
3-)They dont know how to counter devices.
Counter to devices are so simple and I'll share some ways to prevent/get over the device usage/spam.
1 -) Setting Your Rules Before Dueling
You can ask for a no devices duel before the duel starts. I dont know anyone who'd say no. This is a way to prevent device usage in duels. Most people dont ask about "no devices" then complain about how device owns them in duels. Seek solution, not complaint.
2 -) BLOCK
Yes. I'm kinda surprised how no one uses this againts Ice Grenades and Omicron Induced Strength and many others. I know some device freaks who'd spam 4xIce Grenades on you every 13 seconds and I reduce their spam to none with the usage of block.
There aren't many people with Crippling Challange so you can block anytime you want. I start blocking when I see my opponent activating Ice Grenades and surprise, I deflected an Ice Grenades
This is how you can get over the spam or the device usage. (You may have to use block frequently againts spammers with 3-4 ice nades-omicrons)I use pretty much everything I stated above and have no problem with the device usage. 4x Ice Grenades or Omicron Induced Strength doesn't mean instant win and can be easily countered.
Gonna mention it again ;
Seek solution, not complaint.
Hope this thread helps , c'ya in game !
UntouchableSpetzii
Post edited by extramofil on
0
Comments
1- pffft, people just gotta stop caring about duels. The only time that it is appropriate to critisize someone for using devices is Caliga, because he made promises that he failed to keep. The device stuff will calm down soon anyway though since they won't be stackable...really, once they do that, it's really someone's own fault if they don't have devices. I mean shoot... you'll only need to get like 3.. that's not a lot of farming at all... and if they don't wanna use them because the devices don't if fit their theme, then that's just like someone who won't use Ebon Mojo Run because it doesn't fit their theme. No biggie, lose with a smile; smile bigger if the person who beat you wants to act big.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well okay yeah, it's about the tactics and skills, but without devices, some people can't complete their combos and finish off their opponents so OF COURSE, devices play a big role in taking out your opponent. I use Omicron myself to add some spike damage after the Telekinetic lance, because sometimes throwing the shiny pencil at my enemy isn't enough.
I used to be really hateful against devices, but nowadays I don't really give a crap and started using them myself. I still don't have any Ice grenades and now it seems like it's too late to get 3 of em. :biggrin:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
Just wanted to give some thoughts on blocking and Crippling Challenge.
I really don't think that it is fair that Crippling Challenge effects all levels of blocks the same (disabling it for 10 seconds).
For the standard block that everyone gets without any investment, I can understand Crippling Challenge having the most effect, disabling it for 10 seconds.
Having an actual power invested into being a block power should however give a person more resistance to Crippling Challenge, lowering the disabled time to 8 seconds.
Ranking up this power (using 2 advantage points) should give even more resistance to Crippling Challenge lowering the disabled time to 6 seconds.
Finally, Ranking a block power up to rank 3 (which requires investing one of your powers and 4 advantage points) a person should gain the highest resistance to Crippling Challenge lowering the disabled time to 4 seconds.
PvP Reward Possibility
When new possible rewards for PvP are discussed, I see many people speak of items for resistance penetration, and the like to increase damage. Well, I would suggest maybe a mod or just a usable item that makes your block immune to Crippling Challenge. This particular reward could be very expensive acclaim-wise (or whatever currency is being used for the PvP store at that time) and also require a block at Rank 3. This particular PvP reward would also be very PvP specific, thus not forcing PvE people to PvP to gain a reward that would be beneficial for them.
Other Ways of Implementation
Buying this item could make another Rank 3 block (for all blocks) available with the Crippling Challenge immunity in the person's powers and they would just need to go and select it, or once the person buys this item, all of this person's current rank 3 block powers could be upgraded. For example, if the person had a rank 3 block, it would be automatically updated to have crippling challenge immunity.
These are just some thoughts and ideas I have had and felt like sharing since the topic of blocking and crippling challenge came up.:redface:
People should remember how precise blocking is
-Spet
Thanks for the support Spetz ;-))
And yeah, blocking will solve the problem in most occasions, but if your opponent uses cc, just try stunning/knocking him when the nades' charge begins. That will cancel the nades' damage and effects but will put them on CD.
Basically the problem with a duel against me where I am not using devices is that I don't have enough INT at this moment not to use them. My MSA only just pays for my conviction and a little extra plus the only thing I build manipulator on is omnicron (no idea if that still will work so may be changing build lol) this means that if I don't use devices my energy will be so poor that I can't cast anything which isn't good.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
edit: CripChan(TM) do not steal
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
There are several mission devices in game that have 2 second cool downs that can be used to proc MSA at no cost of energy. Bind to a movement key. Look into it if you have energy issues.
Also, concentration is highly overrated, IMO immolation gives you a second energy form and a huge discount to energy costs for huge spikes or long maintains and more than accounts for the min dps loss attributed to concentration. I used to use immolation on my saw build, dubbed plasma saw. One other thing, sonic blaster with adv, look into that, it generates a waterfall of energy in one hit and was overlooked in the energy builder nerf.
There is always support role as well.
-Xeno
Yes I already know of the device thing although it would only be really that useful while not being attacked and by using them it sort of ruins the point of using no devices. ;D
I'm changing build anyway soon so I'll be less built around devices so my energy without using devices should be fine.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I would say that adding this would just make other playstyles more viable. Most people are probably not going to be willing to invest a power and 4 advantage points (plus the expensive amount of Acclaim/PvP currency) just to be prepared for the chance that another player has Crippling Challenge.
Many would probably rather stack damage, Critical chance/severity, and/or resistance penetration(once or if it becomes readily accessible and increasable) to focus on attacking an opponent rather than defending against them. The below sentiment is a good example of this.
Why has "Not dying" become easier and defeating others more difficult(In regards to people in this specific high tier category)? I would say because of the ability for people to stack Dodge/Avoidance to insane amounts.(Passive Defense with no real balancing counter, except to also have really high dodge/avoidance.)
Damage Resistance is also a Passive defense, but it's opposite (resistance penetration) has been introduced. In reality though, with the ability people have to stack damage and critical Severity/chance, I really don't see the need for resistance penetration just in response to damage resistance, but different paths to the same destination are always nice.
As for Active Defenses like most healing, blocking, and moving, these can be countered with holds. In general, a person cannot actively heal, block, or move while being held, so the active defenses are pretty much nullified in that situation.
PvP Reward Possiblity
I think a good idea for a PvP reward could possibly be dodge/avoidance penetration gear and mods. These things could lower the chance for a person to dodge/avoid your attacks.
Once again, this equipment and these mods would be very PvP specific, thus not forcing PvE people to PvP to gain a reward that would be beneficial for them.
Also, this would add a possible counter to the high dodge/avoidance builds PvP wise.
100 damage.
crits with 100% severity, becomes 200 damage.
dodged with 50% avoidance, goes back to 100.
?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The issue is that the avoidance is stacked on top of defense, but with your example you could go further with it and say severity is the counter to defense.
I guess I understand the hatred of all the whining in COPvP, but I think you missed a lot of things, as did a lot of people in this thread.
-I don't know why you wouldn't run Crippling Challenge when it can potentially increase your DPS <200% as well as activate your knocks and holds. Not to mention the debuff.
-Amyjia: I don't think holds last long enough for much these days. Plus, active offenses break what little holds give these days and everyone runs Ascension and/or Ego Surge. I haven't tested sleep in a while, so I can't say I'm an expert in this area, just what I have observed.
-As for a counter to dodge, I don't really think there is one. When someone enters BASH and gets attacked by 4 people with excellent builds and full Legacy device bars and has 0 deaths at the end of the match, it makes me think there is no counter. The worst part is these people also have the ability to kill you seconds are are by no means dedicated tanks. Offensive and support passives have replaced defensive passives in PvP because of the effectiveness of dodge.
isn't defense penetration the counter to defense? severity seems more like a counter to avoidance, with crit chance being the counter to dodge chance
So theoretically, the idea is that to counter avoidance layered on defense, you would need severity layered on top of defense penetration. Theoretically, that's how it evens out.
Of course, that's where things get kinda goofy thanks to slots and specs... the "avoidance + defense" part is easy to get. On the other hand, getting enough defense penetration, combined with enough severity, and enough crit chance... only way I can see doing that is dex primary while using a defense penetration mod and/or the defense pen pvp gear.
Ego or Str primary with dex as secondary would be a way to get it, except in the case of Ego you have to give up either Str or Con, both of which are like waving the white flag. With Str primary, you could go Str, Dex, Con. With Dex primary though you would end up going Dex, Str, Con... so they're basically the same thing, and in both cases you'd have to invest in both Dex and Str to get the needed amounts of crit chance and severity. Which of course means in both cases, you wouldn't be able to get enough con to make ego surge what it needs to be, and of course the whole not enough hit points and not enough pylons thing (that's a not enough energy joke
So yeah, you can counter the avoidance/defense combo... so long as you're willing to give up a good supply of energy, and probably the ability to survive long enough for that rng on rng on rng to kick in!
So yeah... there is actually a counter to the layered defenses... it's filled with giant flawholes that make it unrealistic to actually use that counter... but it does exist
So to recap
Crit counters Dodge
Severity counters Avoidance
Penetration counters Defense
and of course, Time counters RNG
Note: Flawholes(TM), do not steal.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Actually, there is one build I found out yesterday which counters dodge. Catch me in game ! It tears apart any dodge tank builds
-Spetzii
Just to be clear also, when I was using the term "passive defense" in the above quote, I was referring to powers/abilities that when taken reduce the probability of and/or minimize the effects of damage without the person who took the power/ability having to take any initiative during a hostile interaction.
When I was using the term "Active Defenses" in the above quote, I was referring to powers/abilities that also can reduce the probability of and/or minimize the effects of damage, but they require the person who took the power/ability to take the initiative in regards to activating the power/ability during a hostile interaction.
I was not referring to the powers in this game named " Active Defenses" which actually can be used when held.
Also This:
This was in response to someone making the point that it is not difficult to stay alive, but is more difficult to defeat others. If there was real balance and real counters, this would not be an issue. It would just be a matter of certain builds having advantages against some and disadvantages against others, along with their own strengths and weaknesses. (Kinda like what is present in AT PvP.)
However, this is obviously not the case when it comes to Unrestricted PvP. If there is a certain "build" which is a real counter to dodge/avoidance, it is not a part of the general knowledge of the community which is why I suggested the PvP rewards that I did which would add specific gear and mods for a specific purpose, to lower your opponent's dodge/avoidance against your own attacks.
Uranium Core + Penetration Core on Precision Primary is enough, but penetration doesn't work as well as just going for a higher severity and more crit chance. I've been using Uranium + Penetration core for a long time and recently went for crit chance instead as I am now using a defensive passive. Made more sense to me, anyway.
Can you easily kill someone with just high severity, if that person has well layered defenses? Cause then, as it turns out, severity counters both dodge/avoid AND defense...and the system is (somehow..strangely) balanced in favor of offense*?
*-not the stat, the thing in the world.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Strafing Run can, as long as it crits and isn't dodged.
A popular method of stacking severity and crit, is to activate Ice Sheathe R3 and 0.5 seconds later activate Ego Surge+Adv.
So then two powers completely trump the entire stats and specializations systems? .-.
All right, so Strafing Run counters all. Why doesn't everyone have strafing run yet?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Shhhh. The forumites may hear you and report back to their 22 year old - over lord, Darth Crush.
That's just a myth. We all know that the dev in charge of pvp is Wilford Brimley... and he has the diabetes so he doesn't have the energy to deal with our ****.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.