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Where's the Balance?

rtmartma Posts: 1,193 Arc User
edited September 2013 in Power Discussion
Hello again, You may have remember me mentioning something similar before but after doing some Testing on the PTS I found something disturbing, while testing/Reviewing a Force Build I compared 2 Passives with this Kinetic Manipulation and Quarry, Super Stats are Ego Prime, INT/Con Seconadary, Form - Concentration, Role - Ranged, wearing Heirloom Gear.

Now, Initially you'd think Kinetic Manipulation would be best suited for Force powers, at first glance yes, BUT comparing the numbers With 8 Stacks of Concentration I found with Quarry with 3 Stacks of Audacity actually Trumps Damage wise, now to add insault to injury someone with Quarry can use Force Cascade multiple times while Kinetic Manipulation only advantage is getting the first shot off cheaper but unfortunity for ~8secs leaves then Passiveless, How is that Balance people? No wonder I see Quarry get abused, it boosts INT/EGO, gives Dodge and Boosts Physical damage better then Kinetic Manipulation at Ranged, my assumption also is that Quarry cannot be stripped by Skarn's Bane also.

Can't you give Kinetic Manipulation a chance to serve it's purpose in Contrast and not be overshadowed by Quarry? Boost the Ranged Physical Damage Kinetic Manipulation gives some more to tip the scales at-least somewhat, maybe Reduce Force Power Cost like Ego Form does to Mentalist powers, or reduce Quarry's Physical Damage Percentage.

What are your Thoughts?
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Post edited by rtma on

Comments

  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    It was murdered by Colonel Mustard in Library with a Lead Pipe in early Closed Beta.
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  • ayonachanayonachan Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    By itself, Quarry does not beat Kinetic Manipulation in physical damage bonus.

    After you factor in the synergies that audacity brings and if you have int/ego as superstats then you gain 'more' damage from using quarry than kinetic manipulation if and only if you have enough int to make audacity worthwhile(takes 300 int at rank 3 to reach the cap of 30 int/ego per stack). Kinetic Manipulation is an energy form so your force cascade costs less but removes your energy form upon use. Force cascade costs more for your Quarry user.

    Kinetic manipulation also has a bonus to your physical and ranged physical resistance. Quarry dabbles in dodge% and audacity brings avoidance%.


    Now, something that you can actually use for your argument: Kinetic Manipulation is the only 'ranged' dps passive clone that differs from the rest.

    All 'ranged' dps passive clones have the same values and scaling for everything but Kinetic manipulation is the only odd-ball that has different(lower) values for the resistances it gives. For whatever reason(more than likely because there are a lot of mobs that have physical attacks) Kinetic manipulation is roughly 25% less effective for both resistance values than the other 'ranged' dps passives.

    Bonus to damage, however, is the exact same as the others.

    Edit: I was curious so I looked on my cheat sheet. An equal stat Rank 3 Kinetic Manipulation barely beats a rank 1 'ranged' dps passive in resistance and it fails to beat a rank 2 'ranged' dps passive in resistance.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,157 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    It was murdered by Colonel Mustard in Library with a Lead Pipe in early Closed Beta.

    No no no...It was Colonel Mustard in the DINING ROOM with a leeead pipe! :biggrin:
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  • vorshothvorshoth Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    theravenforce wrote: »
    No no no...It was Colonel Mustard in the DINING ROOM with a leeead pipe! :biggrin:

    You're way off. It was Tachyon, in a sub dimensional time ball of stuff trying to get back into the universe by altering the basic underpaying fabric of reality so powers work in an unbalanced way so he can come back.
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  • ajanusajanus Posts: 501 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Just wondering if you knew you were talking about a Force dps build...

    Your argument for balance should have gone in a completely different direction :biggrin:

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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Kinetic Manipulation should have Knock Resist added to it... so it's basically the ranged version of Unstoppable. That seems fine to me.

    Force Cascade removing KM temporarily makes it similar to the way Gigabolt functions. Typhoon is a mystery tho (It's not really, we all know why it gets to not have some sort of artificial cooldown).
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,157 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    KM just needs to be beefed up a little, have the Energy Form Cancel thing not apply to KM (as a perk for being an in set passive power)

    I think it should have a cost discount (like mentioned earlier) to Force Powers.

    If anything in the force powerset should be given knock resistance it should be PFF, couple that with some nice scaling damage resistance (as PFF goes down it starts of good and gets tougher as you refuse to allow yourself to be killed)...ah..but that is another topic...
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  • chuckwolfchuckwolf Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Your error is in trying to make a Force DPS build at all. while I'm a great fan of the force powerset, The fact is force isn't meant for DPS but rather spike damage.
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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    rtma wrote: »
    What are your Thoughts?[/COLOR]

    The only offensive passive worth using is Quarry. QED
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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    chuckwolf wrote: »
    Your error is in trying to make a Force DPS build at all. while I'm a great fan of the force powerset, The fact is force isn't meant for DPS but rather spike damage.

    urdoinitrong? Divide the spikes up over the time to present them and you have DPS.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    theravenforce wrote: »
    KM just needs to be beefed up a little, have the Energy Form Cancel thing not apply to KM (as a perk for being an in set passive power)

    I think it should have a cost discount (like mentioned earlier) to Force Powers.

    If anything in the force powerset should be given knock resistance it should be PFF, couple that with some nice scaling damage resistance (as PFF goes down it starts of good and gets tougher as you refuse to allow yourself to be killed)...ah..but that is another topic...

    Both KM and PFF should get knock resist. PFF should also get hold resist. Both should scale with how much health the shield has left.


    After all, how can you hold or knock someone who's in a force field that can absorb the force of a tank being thrown at it?
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  • ajanusajanus Posts: 501 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    pwestolemyname wrote: »
    The only offensive passive worth using is Quarry. QED

    My brain just shut down after reading this...

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  • chuckwolfchuckwolf Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    pwestolemyname wrote: »
    urdoinitrong? Divide the spikes up over the time to present them and you have DPS.

    Bah Full charge or nothing else LOL
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