Vehicle Revamp?

keikomyst

Let's face it. Vehicles kinda suck as they are now. Suggestions forum would just bury this thread so I'm posting it here... after all, it does mean more money and more customizability to a hero's vehicle.

So, let's make vehicles more of a part of the main game. Have a mission where Max Planck sends you to a VIPER/Argent/Hunter Patriot hanger to steal prototype vehicle parts and bring them back to him. He should then give you a key card to the UNTIL Supergarage! What's the Supergarage? A large hanger where you can find every Z-Store, Salvage and Lockbox vehicle parked. You can get any of these temporarily for free to take for a test drive on the Supergarage's testing facility, letting you check out weapons without putting your money down.

My biggest beef is the complete and utter lack of customization with a vehicle. I have had to wait FOREVER to get Grav Bikes that matched my characters' color schemes, and the weapons are way too rare and the good vehicle mods are far too pricey, so...

Let's make a 'base' set of vehicles available for free after completing a series of vehicle testing missions in the Supergarage.

Basic Jet
Basic Tank
Basic Bike

The Basic vehicles only start out with 4 slots: two weapons, one support, one defense. Why do I say 'start out with'? Because Basic vehicles should have 4 Module slots. Modules should be extra slots you can plug into a vehicle, which will give it an extra slot of the module's type.

How do we get them? Simple! In the Z-store for 200 Z (800 Z to max out a vehicle's slots), rare drops on legendaries and cosmics, and as a Recognition reward. (100 SC Rec sound good?)

Basic vehicles should also be able to be colored to our liking, using the 4 color palette found in the character creator. We should also be able to choose a new chassis for our basic vehicle, as well as set windshield transparency if we want that. If a vehicle is purchased, its chassis should be available for use with Basic vehicles, as well as it's color pattern. (gives people a reason to buy the snow camo hovertank!)

Vehicle modifications should also be available for purchase here. R1-R2 for MCPD Rec, R3-R4 for PRIMUS rec, R5 for UNTIL rec, R6-R7 for Silver Champions Rec.

The end result of all this? Vehicles are more widely available to the public, vehicles are customizable now, people have a reason to buy some vehicles that would otherwise never sell.

Oh yeah, and some new weapons to sell along with this.

Absolute Zero Cannon: Fires a supercooled blast of air at your targets, doing damage and Chilling them when you charge it halfway.

Virus Bomb: Banned by the Geneva convention! Launches bombs containing superviruses such as the Rare Cold and Outfluenza. Causes damage and applies Deadly Poison.

Muramasa: A mechanical arm ending in a laser blade extends from your ship, ending in a laser blade. Deals wide AoE damage and causes Plasma Burn.

Rhino Charge: Envelops your ship in a kinetic aura that deals damage and knockbacks when you run into enemies with it.

Fear Gas: Also banned by the Geneva convention. Grenades packed with hallucinogens that evoke primal fears. Deals damage, a DoT, and applies Fear to all affected targets.

flyingfinn

But still, your Vehicles would be useless.
They are awesome for blowing up chairs.

cptmillennium

Sounds like a great idea. My main disappointment with vehicles are the lack of customization and the lack of content for them.

alexofspades

flyingfinn wrote: »

But still, your Vehicles would be useless.
They are awesome for blowing up chairs.

As "useless" as costume sets. But you've bought and farmed tons of them, havent you?

With better vehicle customization, vehicles will become part of your costume - like an aura, or power coloring. They will complement your character concept. And that's what we all crave for - for more ways to customize our heroes, to make them even more unique. That's why we wanted auras in the first place, wasnt it?

/SIGNED


Edit: An addition. Vehicles should have a pet mode where they can stay put passively (like deactivated), actively guard an area or follow you. They have half their stats during this mode.

itsbrou

The only revamp I would want for them is to have the vehicles have their own UI elements and stop being devices.

I'd prefer they be something closer to build slots (with security in place to prevent player power and vehicle power cross-contamination.) They could then take steps to make it possible to alter the vehicle's color and texture options in a way they cannot be as devices.

meedacthunist

+Fusion cannon

But honestly, thing that I really want from vehicles is their color customisation.

jonsills

The fusion blade ends in a fusion blade?

Seriously, though, aside from weapons that are "banned by the Geneva Conventions", this would be incredibly cool. I'd buy some just to be themed transports for some of my toons. (I already created one toon specifically to have a themed transport - Fire Ant.)

lafury001200

keikomyst wrote: »

Let's face it. Vehicles kinda suck as they are now. Suggestions forum would just bury this thread so I'm posting it here... after all, it does mean more money and more customizability to a hero's vehicle.

So, let's make vehicles more of a part of the main game. Have a mission where Max Planck sends you to a VIPER/Argent/Hunter Patriot hanger to steal prototype vehicle parts and bring them back to him. He should then give you a key card to the UNTIL Supergarage! What's the Supergarage? A large hanger where you can find every Z-Store, Salvage and Lockbox vehicle parked. You can get any of these temporarily for free to take for a test drive on the Supergarage's testing facility, letting you check out weapons without putting your money down.

My biggest beef is the complete and utter lack of customization with a vehicle. I have had to wait FOREVER to get Grav Bikes that matched my characters' color schemes, and the weapons are way too rare and the good vehicle mods are far too pricey, so...

Let's make a 'base' set of vehicles available for free after completing a series of vehicle testing missions in the Supergarage.

Basic Jet
Basic Tank
Basic Bike

The Basic vehicles only start out with 4 slots: two weapons, one support, one defense. Why do I say 'start out with'? Because Basic vehicles should have 4 Module slots. Modules should be extra slots you can plug into a vehicle, which will give it an extra slot of the module's type.

How do we get them? Simple! In the Z-store for 200 Z (800 Z to max out a vehicle's slots), rare drops on legendaries and cosmics, and as a Recognition reward. (100 SC Rec sound good?)

Basic vehicles should also be able to be colored to our liking, using the 4 color palette found in the character creator. We should also be able to choose a new chassis for our basic vehicle, as well as set windshield transparency if we want that. If a vehicle is purchased, its chassis should be available for use with Basic vehicles, as well as it's color pattern. (gives people a reason to buy the snow camo hovertank!)

Vehicle modifications should also be available for purchase here. R1-R2 for MCPD Rec, R3-R4 for PRIMUS rec, R5 for UNTIL rec, R6-R7 for Silver Champions Rec.

The end result of all this? Vehicles are more widely available to the public, vehicles are customizable now, people have a reason to buy some vehicles that would otherwise never sell.

Oh yeah, and some new weapons to sell along with this.

Absolute Zero Cannon: Fires a supercooled blast of air at your targets, doing damage and Chilling them when you charge it halfway.

Virus Bomb: Banned by the Geneva convention! Launches bombs containing superviruses such as the Rare Cold and Outfluenza. Causes damage and applies Deadly Poison.

Muramasa: A mechanical arm ending in a laser blade extends from your ship, ending in a laser blade. Deals wide AoE damage and causes Plasma Burn.

Rhino Charge: Envelops your ship in a kinetic aura that deals damage and knockbacks when you run into enemies with it.

Fear Gas: Also banned by the Geneva convention. Grenades packed with hallucinogens that evoke primal fears. Deals damage, a DoT, and applies Fear to all affected targets.

Best suggestion I've seen regarding vehicles EVER! SIGN SIGN SIGN!

With my enthusiam out of the way-1 free weapon slot only. This way the general playerbase could still get an infusion of interest and it wouldn't cheese off those who have drifter or z store vehicles.

*in before "we don't have the tech" or "other things need things first because things"

Take the vehicle layout from the Nighthawk Custom alert, put it in either a Until HQ map or one of the large rooms from say Serpent Lantern or something. Please Cryptic, use your existing assets.

Sometime after October might work, should be done with bugs, anniversary, and Blood Moon event by then.

Love this idea, think I may have forgotten to sign so SIGN INFINTE+2.

flyingfinn

aurinkosi wrote: »

As "useless" as costume sets. But you've bought and farmed tons of them, havent you?

With better vehicle customization, vehicles will become part of your costume - like an aura, or power coloring. They will complement your character concept. And that's what we all crave for - for more ways to customize our heroes, to make them even more unique. That's why we wanted auras in the first place, wasnt it?

/SIGNED


Edit: An addition. Vehicles should have a pet mode where they can stay put passively (like deactivated), actively guard an area or follow you. They have half their stats during this mode.

But i can play thru whole game looking dazzling.
Can't do that with Vehicles.

Seriously, let's hop back few years and see how much they have improved the games many features.

And no, i'm not against Vehicle customisation.

Just that the 4 years of halfasserly is reality in this game.

kiyoko4

The OP has good ideas. They put a lot of effort into making vehicles happen. They must be something like 90% of the total development we've gotten recently. So it is a shame for them to go to waste.

My request: I want vehicles to be less silly looking!

They are overdone right now. They are too big and goofy. They look like toys designed for roughly 6 year olds. They are the WoW shoulderpads of CO.

I would like some normal vehicles please. I want a *normal* motorcycle and a horse to ride. Yes, just a plain horse, like has been possible in MMOs for about a decade.

If they made a motorcycle the way they've made these vehicles, it will be a disaster. It will be the size of a truck, have cannons, and I really believe they could not resist putting a giant track-wheel around it to roll on. There's your motorcycle.

When they have a good base model, then I'll worry about customizing it.

zahinder

One of my biggest frustrations with vehicles is theme. My fire wizard of the arcane order is not going to fly a f'in hover tank.

Thematically, you need vehicles that -aren't tech-. Because lots of heroes aren't tech oriented.

Also, I think there should be integration with flight and hover disks (and similar), because Superman didn't use a jet.


Vehicles seem to be designed by people who don't fundamentally get the genre.

lafury001200

zahinder wrote: »

One of my biggest frustrations with vehicles is theme. My fire wizard of the arcane order is not going to fly a f'in hover tank.

Thematically, you need vehicles that -aren't tech-. Because lots of heroes aren't tech oriented.

Also, I think there should be integration with flight and hover disks (and similar), because Superman didn't use a jet.


Vehicles seem to be designed by people who don't fundamentally get the genre.

Tell that to Marvel, DC, and a slew of others who in essence created the genre you speak of. I understand your frustrations about the implemenation, but imagine the problems associated with wheeled vehicles in the context of this game.

jonesing4

zahinder wrote: »

One of my biggest frustrations with vehicles is theme. My fire wizard of the arcane order is not going to fly a f'in hover tank.

Thematically, you need vehicles that -aren't tech-. Because lots of heroes aren't tech oriented.

Also, I think there should be integration with flight and hover disks (and similar), because Superman didn't use a jet.


Vehicles seem to be designed by people who don't fundamentally get the genre.

Agreed. And even 'somewhat tech' heroes don't really have good options, if you don't want them in a damn spaceship. The only vehicles I really want for my toons are a motorcycle (you know, with wheels) and a black Toronado.

Magic themed, low-tech, steampunk, nature themed... There are a ton of vehicle themes possible, but all we have are high tech options. More than anything else, that's the part I'd want to see improved.

jonsills

Superman didn't use a jet because Superman used the Travel Power of Flight. Batman doesn't have Flight, so he uses a jet (and a car, and a boat, and... ).

If you have a TP, and you're happy with how it gets you around, then you don't need a vehicle. You may or may not want one (the aforementioned Fire Ant uses Scarab Tunneling for local travel, and his Fire Ant for long-distance stuff), but you don't need one.

(As another example, Blackwing has Acrobatics as her TP, because her schtick is that she doesn't have powers as such - her Night Warrior Sneak is just how good she is at not being noticed. She uses a Hawkwing when she has to cross a map. Pursues-the-Unseen, as a mage, doesn't use a vehicle at all; he uses mystic forces to fly, with a purple aura that somewhat resembles flame. And Happifun Security System X-4 has a jetpack built into its frame.)

meedacthunist

There should be a device boosting speed of regular travel powers and with mod slots allowing people using travel powers to be as fast as vehicles. Superman is actually faster than human-built jets.

Also, the same tech behind current vehicles could be used for more magic oriented vehicles - like magical chariots for example, or actual mounts (NW proves that it is possible to have mounts with this graphical engine).

As for rotating parts like wheels or propellers - those are doable on this engine. Viper ospreys have rotating propellers and technically it's a NPC costume. It is possible to make wheeled vehicle. It may be harder, though, to make a suitable physics for it's travel power.

wraithshadow13

jonsills wrote: »

Superman didn't use a jet because Superman used the Travel Power of Flight. Batman doesn't have Flight, so he uses a jet (and a car, and a boat, and... ).

If you have a TP, and you're happy with how it gets you around, then you don't need a vehicle. You may or may not want one (the aforementioned Fire Ant uses Scarab Tunneling for local travel, and his Fire Ant for long-distance stuff), but you don't need one.

Superman Had the supermobile for a little while, and Wonder Woman still flies her jet even though she has the power of flight.

I do agree though that the vehicles should be revamped entirely to be more thematic, rather than useless or forced. I should do a vehicle in a way that fits my character, not because certain missions are almost impossible without them. I shouldn't have to feel forced or coerced into vehicles, but at the same time they need to be balanced enough that there is no issue using them when i want to rather than only in certain areas and a single mission or two.

If i'm in an outdoor alert, vehicles should be allowed, but not overpower the rest of the team. The vehicle abilities should be treated more like a new power tree, they should allow for the customization of other powers as well as maybe allow other powers to work in Vehicle play. A lot of Power Armors powers could work great on a vehicle. When flying an alien chariot, gadgeteering powers might look pretty good, but all in all, they need to be balanced with regular powers.

Customization needs to be key here as well, again, for theme reasons. I have one of the Lemurian tanks, but there are no water based powers, and i don't really have any underwater based heros, so over all, i still have yet to open it. We need to be able to pick parts and change colors, this game used to be all about customizing your hero, and it's become all about giving money to cryptic for Neverwinter. I'm almost afraid to ask just how little of the money spent in champions is actually used on champions. Sto has an awesome vehicle customization set up, and champions desperately needs that. Just a few different versions of each vehicle, and the ability to mix and match parts between those would go a LOOOONG way to making the vehicles better here.

Vehicles should be an enhanced Travel power, not a cruddy device. people should be able to alter the colors and shapes, to match their heroes or make supergroup themed vehicles. That way if they need it, it's there, but it's still not themed to the hero. Captain america doesn't have a Captain America themed jet (at the moment), but he DOES have access to both shield jets and The avengers' Quinjets. Why not give us the ability to do those and make it work like STO's Fleet uniforms? The leader picks a general theme and look, and it becomes optional for the heroes to use on their own vehicles.

wraithshadow13

As a side note, let me know if you also set up a threat like this for hideouts as well, god knows those need to be revamped along with the nemesis system as well.

zahinder

jonsills wrote: »

Superman didn't use a jet because Superman used the Travel Power of Flight. Batman doesn't have Flight, so he uses a jet (and a car, and a boat, and... ).

If you have a TP, and you're happy with how it gets you around, then you don't need a vehicle. You may or may not want one (the aforementioned Fire Ant uses Scarab Tunneling for local travel, and his Fire Ant for long-distance stuff), but you don't need one.

Then content shouldn't be made so that people with those concepts are effectively shoved out, and vehicles shouldn't be faster than top-rated flight. Or there should be a 'super flight' option, or... something.

I mean, there's already an incentive for, say, a guy with acrobatics to take a flying vehicle. Vehicles can function as new powers/attacks + new TP, that's cool.

But the jet goes faster than Superman? Meh.

keikomyst

My theory is that, according to the developers, vehicles being faster than R3 flight TPs is likely an acceptable break from "reality', considering said vehicles would never sell if they were always slower than, god forbid, R3 Flight.

That being said? A super-booster for Flight TPs would be very much welcome.

Hell, the Super Booster for Jet Boots/Jet Pack could activate its counterpart's animation... Jet Boots + Jet Pack looks really cool, almost Gundam-like!

zahinder

I would accept a zen store item that boosts travel speeds to vehicle-like levels but doesn't act like a Become device.

I wouldn't be THRILLED, but at least it'd be more conducive to validating people's TP/theme choices.

Heck, you could make a variety of 'TP-altering' items... are you listening, Cryptic?

jonsills

Superman is faster than human-built jets. He's also completely invulnerable to anything except magic, and stronger than any creature native to Earth.

And, as was pointed out in the Champs PnP rulebook, he's not point-balanced; you can't build Superman in Champions without giving him a hefty point bonus. I certainly wouldn't expect to see Supes tooling around Mill City here in CO.

Let's grab someone closer to home, as it were; say, the Human Torch, of Fantastic Four fame. Can Johnny Storm outfly an F-18? Or does he have his own segment of the Fantasticar?

zahinder

Oy, way to miss the forest for the trees. Yeah, Superman can fly so fast he reverses time, fine.

But I'm telling you, when most players make some flying superhero, they are not thrilled to go 'well, better jump in a small jet because it's faster.'

It's a thematic issue.

Yeah, you can force it to make sense, but that does damage to CO's effective position as 'THE general supers mmo'.

(Yes, it's Champions, not generic, but the game thrives on being effectively generic)

meedacthunist

jonsills wrote: »

Superman is faster than human-built jets. He's also completely invulnerable to anything except magic, and stronger than any creature native to Earth.

And, as was pointed out in the Champs PnP rulebook, he's not point-balanced; you can't build Superman in Champions without giving him a hefty point bonus. I certainly wouldn't expect to see Supes tooling around Mill City here in CO.

Let's grab someone closer to home, as it were; say, the Human Torch, of Fantastic Four fame. Can Johnny Storm outfly an F-18? Or does he have his own segment of the Fantasticar?

X-Men Quicksilver is very often shown as being faster than anything else in Marvel Universe. In terms of CO he'd be a character who spent too much points on his travel powers, as he's also not a very effective combatant except having this level of speed.

Pretty much the same about the Flash from DC.

Iron Man was able to reach Mach 10 with his armor.

It's perfectly in-genre for people like Batman or the Punisher to have need for personal vehicles, but higher powered heroes should not be shoehorned into this.

jonsills

meedacthunist wrote: »

X-Men Quicksilver is very often shown as being faster than anything else in Marvel Universe. In terms of CO he'd be a character who spent too much points on his travel powers, as he's also not a very effective combatant except having this level of speed.

Pretty much the same about the Flash from DC.

Iron Man was able to reach Mach 10 with his armor.

It's perfectly in-genre for people like Batman or the Punisher to have need for personal vehicles, but higher powered heroes should not be shoehorned into this.

Johnny doesn't need a vehicle to get around, either - unless said travel involves very high speed. The argument being made here is that flying heroes supposedly "need" jets/grav bikes just because those go faster; supporting argument was that Superman could outfly any Terran vehicle.

Yes, Supes can. And the Flash can run at close to the speed of light, and vibrate the molecules of his body at such speed as to pass through solid objects, which is also not possible in this game. If you build a super-speedster in CO, he won't run as fast as the fastest vehicle (although he will be considerably more maneuverable). This does not mean that vehicles are bad - it just means that superspeed isn't so ridiculous here as it is in a comic where it's basically the only power the guy has.

My point is that a) if you're happy with your TP, you don't "need" a vehicle, as aside from a few specialized, temporary events, it's not necessary to use one; and b) there is precedent in comics for some characters with travel powers to use a vehicle on occasion for greater convenience (you'll notice that when the fighting started, Johnny always bailed out of the Fantasticar so he could bring his own powers to bear).

Oh, and Iron Man's armor essentially is his vehicle...

meedacthunist

I hardly care how limited is superspeed in Champions books.
Superpowers are often ridiculously overpowered, that's part of the genre.
Maybe Cryptic should rename this and other powers to "Almost-like-superspeed-but-not-so-much" or something and update TP descriptions?

Would be more honest.

jonsills wrote: »

My point is that a) if you're happy with your TP, you don't "need" a vehicle, as aside from a few specialized, temporary events, it's not necessary to use one; and b) there is precedent in comics for some characters with travel powers to use a vehicle on occasion for greater convenience (you'll notice that when the fighting started, Johnny always bailed out of the Fantasticar so he could bring his own powers to bear).

I had a good look at the difference in practical usability between jet vehicle with ranked speed mods and a R3 jet pack/jet boots, supposedly the fastest flight TP.
I had both on the same character.

In practical terms is hard to pretend that nothing is wrong when leveling with said jet is nearly twice as fast as using R3 jet pack, or even R3 superspeed. Not to mention that vehicle top speed is higher to the point when using vehicle actually makes doing all help-a-citizen missions in MC profitable, something that is rarely done with regular TP because missions are scattered accross the whole zone map.

Time spent on flying between neighborhoods and missions adds quickly and in the end characters who are supposed to be superhuman fast are at disandvantage compared to mundane vehicles.

That's hardly in-genre for me. Travel powers are no longer as valid as vehicles in terms of travelling. Sure, they are playable, but at the cost paid in efficiency.

Some of us like to match IC and OOC, in the game advertised as "be the hero you want to be" player should have at least option to be as fast without vehicle as with vehicle.

If PWE thinks that making regular TP as fast as vehicles could harm their revenue, then at least selling a travel power booster devices should be an option.

Still a profit for them, and an option for players.

jonsills wrote: »

Oh, and Iron Man's armor essentially is his vehicle...

But not in terms of gameplay, where it's personal travel power. Otherwise we would have vehicles incorporated in PA framework.

Not to mention that in-genre vehicles are more often used as a team transports. Story-wise their function is similar to UNITY teleporters and Champion's jet.

If our vehicles allowed for jumping between zones then even with lower flying speed they would be more needed than they are now.

flyingfinn

That's just it, basic functions aren't implemented to new systems they keep throwing in.
Just more of same shiney fluff. Same halfasserly made stuff that this game is known of. I believe the great leader himself stated so.

chalupaoffury

If you wanna be technical, an f-18 is capable of around mach 1.5 fully loaded. 1.81 just the jet. Johnny Storm is capable of mach 2+ even at low altitudes. In space, he's one of the fastest beings in the marvel universe. He's capable of catching up to silver surfer, who is pretty much the fastest character in the history of anything. That's canon from marvel, btw. But if we're gonna use real world rules here, what about nightcrawler? If he's looking at a webcam of a place, he can teleport literally anywhere, instantly. Think an F-18 has a chance on that? Yet teleport is one of the slower powers in CO.

But, I mean, video game.

Let's not forget, though, that I've asked about 60 times to get the old jet boots back because I love stupidly fast heroes that can accidentally an hero because they didn't pay attention to their own gear. I'll pretty much always fall on the side of "make us at least as fast". I think a device that sped us up would sell like CRAZY.

flyingfinn

Teleport in CO is a short range invisible flight.

Yea, old Jet Boots with malfunction posibility would be nice. And with old SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMSSSSHH! sound.

chaelk

But if you are allowed to customize them(as people have asked for from the start) how will they make 'new' models?
how many different colour tanks/bikes/planes are there which are just recoloured?

I have vehicles,I don't use them. yes they go faster, trhey also turn off my TP and form, which I then have to stop and reset before continuing on with what I'm doing. Frequently finding the mobs I was after and forgetting. So they stay parked in the garage.

wraithshadow13

chaelk wrote: »

But if you are allowed to customize them(as people have asked for from the start) how will they make 'new' models?
how many different colour tanks/bikes/planes are there which are just recoloured?

I have vehicles,I don't use them. yes they go faster, trhey also turn off my TP and form, which I then have to stop and reset before continuing on with what I'm doing. Frequently finding the mobs I was after and forgetting. So they stay parked in the garage.

well most vehicles have multiple variations in terms of Hawk, widow, and fire ant, but the best way would be to start at the base, Tank, hoverbike, jet, And a few other base models thrown in for variety. From there, each base model would have a few different versions which is where the hawk, widow, ant come in. From STO's vehicle set up, those three models would have 3 versions, like how the hawk wing jets are: stealth, heavy fighter, and interceptor, each with slightly altered base stats, but the ship editor allows you to take and match the parts from those three models to customize the look of your vehicle.

With champions it could work the same way, but it would require them to remake the vehicle models, which in all honesty, is something they should have done from the start.

chaelk

let me clarify my previous post.

They MAKE new models by colouring previous ones and changing a weapon.
allowing players to customize vehicles removes their method of making 'new' vehicles to sell.

enixonbb

chaelk wrote: »

let me clarify my previous post.

They MAKE new models by colouring previous ones and changing a weapon.
allowing players to customize vehicles removes their method of making 'new' vehicles to sell.

See that's the main problem I see. They've already made many pallet swap vehicles so if they DID release customization now then anyone who bought, for example, a Snow Leopard just because they wanted a white tank would be angrily demanding a refund

chalupaoffury

Oh, how about this? A lockbox with a low chance of dropping a vehicle with unlocked color swatches. They could start with the jets, then the tanks. The stuff that's been around for a while. And the odds would be low enough that they'd *still* be rare as hell.