Might DPS

cptmillennium

I'm curious what sort of DPS numbers others have been able to reach using a Might build. I took Captain Millennium up against Mega Terak on the PTS and so far the best I've been able to hit is 2,950 (using the combat log parser).

Conversely, Silver Sentinel, my Two-Gun Mojo/Quarry character, was able to get around 4,500 on his first try with far less investment in gear. How close is it possible to get to that with Might?

carrionbaggage

I can't replicate your gear to give an anecdotal comparison, but I checked your most recent build thread and tried to make some slight adjustments (Finishing Blow is swappable for either Flanking or Offensive Expertise). I would also try replacing the Veteran's Core of Might with another Impact Prism, to squeeze more uptime out of Nimble Mind.

Use a Beatdown combo as a standard attack (and to keep max stacks of Stagger), followed by a Setup-infused Haymaker. Apply Demolish as needed to keep up the debuff. It's a little squishier without Vindicator, but I think it might push your DPS up a bit. If you have the time, it could be worth a spin on the Test Server. I'm curious what its DPS number would be with your gear.

Using Two-Gun Mojo as a benchmark is probably an exercise in frustration.

monsterdaddy

I looked into this myself in the PH but I'll go try it out on PTS with my Scarab build when Kigatilik respawns.

cptmillennium

Thanks, I may give it a whirl and let you know how it works.

I've decided Might's real drawback is that charge powers just can't be built for the way maintains can. With a high crit chance and severity, any maintain like 2GM can vastly outstrip even a heavy-hitter like Haymaker.

For me to pull off nearly 3k DPS with Might, I need a LOT of expensive gear and a lot of setup (Roomsweepers to get Enrage up fast, Demolish w/Below the Belt, Ego Surge w/Nimble Mind, and as many Haymakers as I can get out before I need to reapply my buffs/debuffs). 2GM is able to hit for 150% of that with just Ego Surge w/Nimble Mind cycling in as it's available.

I might start joining the chorus of people asking for a boost of some sort to the melee sets. I don't know if a flat damage boost is the right answer, but maybe shorter charge or activation times, or something in the spec trees that boosts the damage of a fully charged attack. Something that would put these charged attacks at least in the ballpark.

itsbrou

The variance of might damage is quite high at the top end. In offensive mode against a knock immune boss, one can reach 5000-7400 DPS. Really not joking. Unfortunately, that's if you crit often.

cptmillennium

Any suggestions on what it takes to hit that high Brou? The 3k I was getting was in Melee Damage role with R3 Unstoppable, Depleted Uranium Core, Demolish w/Below the Belt, and a 110% crit severity. Usual crit chance is 35%, boosted to around 80% with Nimble Mind. Guardian and Vindicator specs, Strength PSS, DEX and CON SSS.

Would I need to go DEX PSS for the higher crit chance to reach those levels?

monsterdaddy

Just finished some testing on Kigatilik. Off two runs I got average of 3.5K DPS and this is with the Laser Knight debuff. I forgot to put CC on Beatdown so the numbers are a bit boosted. And this was on the first bar of Kigatilik so Finishing Blow did not boost the numbers.

I had 445 STR with Lock N Load/Ice Sheathe running.

I think the key to higher DPS with these powers is to always setup Unleashed Rage and only once per 2 Haymakers or Haymaker/Demolish combos. Might need to play around with the attack order more.

(Depleted Uranium Core, 41.5% Crit/116.9% Sev)

Oh BTW this was in tank role. Captain M, were your numbers based on Melee role?

My ranged role Quarry Two Gun Mojo w/Close the Gap and Demolish R3 gets 5K DPS on Kigatilik as an FYI. Scarab is 4K in tank role.

monsterdaddy

cptmillennium wrote: »

Any suggestions on what it takes to hit that high Brou? The 3k I was getting was in Melee Damage role with R3 Unstoppable, Depleted Uranium Core, Demolish w/Below the Belt, and a 110% crit severity. Usual crit chance is 35%, boosted to around 80% with Nimble Mind. Guardian and Vindicator specs, Strength PSS, DEX and CON SSS.

Would I need to go DEX PSS for the higher crit chance to reach those levels?

Not necessarily. I've been playing around with STR PSS with Scarab and he can match the DPS of DEX PSS (and gain more HP) with just 2 DEX mods. The high STR boosted damage was enough to make up the loss of Expose Weakness, and lower Severity.

And this is with 73 CON.

cptmillennium

monsterdaddy wrote: »

Just finished some testing on Kigatilik. Off two runs I got average of 3.5K DPS and this is with the Laser Knight debuff. I forgot to put CC on Beatdown so the numbers are a bit boosted. And this was on the first bar of Kigatilik so Finishing Blow did not boost the numbers.

I had 445 STR with Lock N Load/Ice Sheathe running.

I think the key to higher DPS with these powers is to always setup Unleashed Rage and only once per 2 Haymakers or Haymaker/Demolish combos. Might need to play around with the attack order more.

(Depleted Uranium Core, 41.5% Crit/116.9% Sev)

Oh BTW this was in tank role. Captain M, were your numbers based on Melee role?

My ranged role Quarry Two Gun Mojo w/Close the Gap and Demolish R3 gets 5K DPS on Kigatilik as an FYI. Scarab is 4K in tank role.

This was in Melee role with R3 Unstoppable. Depleted Uranium Core, 35% Crit/110.4% severity. 320 STR with Ego Surge/Nimble Mind as an AO as often as it was up.

I'm not using Unleashed Rage, just Demolish/Haymaker combos with the occasional tapped Uppercut when I need quick energy from the knock. I'm able to get almost 25k Haymaker crits on training dummies, but my overall DPS still seems really lacking. I'm trying to figure out what I can do to boost it more. Maybe swapping out some CON mods for DEX to boost my crit chance higher while running in DPS role would make a difference.

cptmillennium

No matter what combination of stats and specs I try I can't seem to get my DPS higher than 3k. I can still get Haymaker crits as high as 25k, but 20-23k are more common and it's such a slow attack that it still holds me back.

Is using Unleashed Rage the only way to get Might's DPS higher, or am I missing something?

helbjorn

If you're fully charging Haymaker, try tap-spamming it instead.

monsterdaddy

Tested a Might build on Kigatilik. 4 minutes total time and only the first/second bars damaged. (So no Finishing Blows.)

Melee role with Unstoppable and my Scarab stat setup - DEX/Vindicator/Brawler. Aggression was substituted in for Lock N Load.

Haymaker R3, Demolish R2 w/Adv, Thundering Kicks R3 as the combo (it's the shortest combo and the Dodge buff looked useful in squishy Melee role.) Energy Shield w/Laser Knight was active so below damage numbers could have been ~10% higher.

With Unleashed Rage, DPS was 5,447

Without Unleashed Rage, DPS was 5,325

Attack sequence was:

Thundering Kicks
Haymaker (Setup)
Thundering Kicks
Haymaker (Setup)
Demolish

All full charges. Substitute Unleashed Rage for Haymaker whenever available. The small increase in DPS from using Unleashed Rage is consistent with my previous tests.

Might looks like a decent damage set from the above numbers. Could probably still put in CC on Thundering Kicks and not decrease DPS too much.

cptmillennium

I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I have a base 35% crit chance, plus 6% from Vindicator for 41%. I have 110% crit severity. 320 STR PSS, 143 DEX SSS, 338 CON SSS. STR, Vindicator, Warden specs and STR mastery.

I notice you're using DEX as a PSS, which would account for the higher severity you'd mentioned and maybe a higher crit chance, plus more defense penetration. Would you mind posting your full build and gear for me? There's gotta be something I'm missing.

monsterdaddy

Hi Cap, I'm at work atm but the build is exactly like the Scarab build I linked in prior post on page 1 except Thundering Kicks R3 for Shred, Demolish R2 w/adv for Reapers Embrace and Haymaker for Tigers Bite, Aggression for Lock n Load.

I think the key is Brawler and attack sequence for Setup spec. Have a look and I'll check in again.

P.S. I thought of one last possibility, transient shortages of energy. Surprising how much it can hurt dps which is the reason I use CoAP instead of an unlock. 1 sec ticks help.

cptmillennium

Great, I'll take another look at that build. You might be right about the energy. I definitely feel it since giving up INT and MSA for DEX. I really appreciate all your help!

monsterdaddy

I tend to like CoPD but high STR affords us the opportunity to CoAP. I think energy is a major overlooked factor between on paper dps and actual dps.

cptmillennium

Doing some experimenting now, and swapping the Warden tree for the Brawler tree, and STR PSS for DEX, I landed a nearly 32k Haymaker crit on a training dummy. :eek:

Might be on to something here...

EDIT: Correction - I just broke 33k with Haymaker.

monsterdaddy

LOL, good stuff. One day I might try and hit the theoretical 42K crit with Reaper's Embrace. Can't do that in PTS tho.

cptmillennium

Yeah, I wasn't even aware these numbers were possible. I still want to test my DPS and figure out a build that can still tank with a gear swap, but I think you've set me on the right track.

cptmillennium

Just landed a 38k crit against a training dummy!

Here's the build I'm experimenting with:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Captain Millennium

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Martial Focus
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Acrobat
Level 15: Covert Ops Training
Level 18: Paramilitary Training
Level 21: Relentless

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Mighty Leap (Crippling Challenge)
Level 8: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Demolish (Below the Belt)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Form of the Tempest
Level 20: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Ice Sheath (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Imbue (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Unbreakable
Level 35: Defiance (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Fault Line (Challenging Strikes)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Pack (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations:
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Initiative (2/2)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Brawler: No Escape (1/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (3/3)
Brawler: Setup (2/2)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

I'm finding that Form of the Tempest is easier to stack and gives me a stronger and more consistent energy return than Enrage did. The only real advantages to Enrage I can see are Endorphin Rush (which I do like but hope to make up for with Necrulitic Elixir at some point) and Unleashed Rage, which I don't use. Way of the Warrior seems to offer better mitigation for me than Unstoppable.

I've replaced Ego Surge with Ice Sheathe and I'm considering letting go of Roomsweeper (I love it, but it's not team-friendly and I can always use Haymaker for those glorious knocks over the horizon when it's appropriate), which left me room to pick up Imbue, which I think might work nicely in here.

I haven't tested the DPS yet, and I'll need to see how well it'll survive in a more defensive posture with a bunch of CON gear and Defiance.

monsterdaddy

You need a lot of CON to make Endorphin Rush worthwhile so really no loss there. How much STR and DEX do you have now?

I'm also a little worried about your build having enough energy for consistent DPS. Also Lock N Load was better for me in Tank role vs. Imbue but not sure about that in Melee role.

Oh and in today's Gravitar, Scarab landed this: Your Unleashed Rage deals 24670 (19804) Sonic Damage to Gravitar. :biggrin:

cptmillennium

In that build I'd shifted as much as I could from CON to STR, so I think I was around 300 in each. Energy is something of a problem. I want to stay in concept, which rules out CoAP. MSA won't do me any good unless I go back to INT as a SSS, and I'm not willing to give up CON for it. I could try to fit in Dragon Uppercut to take advantage of the Rush mechanic on Form of the Tempest, but it's another single target punch I don't need otherwise so I'm trying to avoid it.

I think I may keep Imbue, but probably swap out Ice Sheathe for LnL. The crit severity boost on Ice Sheathe is godly, but it breaks concept a bit to have people freezing in ice blocks around me.

That build I posted had about 40% crit plus the 6% from Vindicator, and 119% crit severity. I'm still toying with STR PSS builds, but it's like a whole new world of possibilities has opened for me. I could spend a week and 10,000 globals just experimenting.

monsterdaddy

STR pss is still good. I find by skipping CON the hp buff and crit buff specs fill in nicely. My dps over time is as good as DEX despite the loss of severity n expose weakness thanks to a higher crit rate. I do miss the huge impressive crits though but I gain more hp n knock resistance.

vitalityprime

Can you post a screenshot of your 38k Haymaker?

Something like this might get me interested in the game again.

A couple months ago I was all happy with myself that I hit a 12k haymaker using Invuln.

38k seems glorious. Though I have a feeling I'll miss the survivability of Invuln in my pursuit of that 38k.

cptmillennium

I don't know if I'm fast enough on the keyboard to pull that off Prime, but I can tell you it used the build above, with Finish Them Off and Ice Sheathe going for me. I still had Defiance as an alternative passive in my build (I was using Way of the Warrior in Melee role at the time though), so you could still be Invulnerable when you really need to be.

stergiosman

Just sayin' you might want to keep ice sheath r3 and change imbue to ego surge+nimble mind.
You can use those two together for 100% crit chance+140++ % severity. Just press ice sheath and then immediately ego surge. The sev buff from the first and the chance buff from the second stack.

cptmillennium

I've enjoyed Ego Surge with Nimble Mind for quite awhile, but in this build I'm shifting a LOT of my CON to STR and DEX while running in Melee role, which reduces a lot of the benefit. It'd still be helpful in a more defensive posture when I gear up with more CON, but I'm leaning toward a more universally useful option.

I really do love seeing a crit severity around 150% with Ice Sheathe, but while I'm a min-max kinda guy at heart, theme comes first. I was okay with the snow falling from my fists, but when my opponents started randomly freezing into blocks of ice it went too far for me. I'm not ruling it out entirely, but I'm going to explore options with less obvious FX first. Interesting to know you can fire off two at once though. Might have to look into a bind to do that.

Imbue may be sort of underrated. At low health it's a HUGE crit chance and severity buff, and the 12%-12% base isn't all that bad either if you already have a decent chance to start with. It gives me around a 58% chance and 122% severity, which isn't too bad.

cptmillennium

With CoAP I'm getting to about 3850 DPS against Kigatilik using STR PSS, and that's with Juggernaut specced rather than Overpower. I may just have to retcon the source of my powers to a magical theme...

EDIT: In a second run I got exactly 5000 DPS. I've got some writing to do. =D

monsterdaddy

Good job, you're almost there. It really is amazing how energy management and attack sequence with Setup, debuff and charge powers can make such a massive difference in sustained DPS.

The PH really needs a 1,000,000 HP unknockable Cosmic level dummy for testing these days. Oh course the nice thing about Kigatilik is he does fight back so you can't be a pure glass cannon either.

BTW, anyone using Kigatilik for testing on PTS, please don't kill our Cosmic testing dummy, just one bar should do it. :biggrin:

cptmillennium

I've been doing a lot more testing, and I'm leaning toward this build. It replaces Setup with the Flowing Strikes advantage from Rising Knee. This is still resulting in great Haymaker crits (37.4k so far!) while also giving me pretty consistent energy without breaking my theme or knocking enemies all over the map.

Going STR PSS would give me the option of more durability when I'm in Tank role, but with DEX PSS I always have a decent base crit chance, and with both STR and CON as SSSs I can move between them without losing any crit severity. I'd still lose a lot of melee damage if I sacrificed too much STR for CON, but the flexibility's nice.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Captain Millennium

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Martial Focus
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Acrobat
Level 15: Paramilitary Training
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Quick Recovery

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Beatdown (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Mighty Leap (Crippling Challenge)
Level 8: Unstoppable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Demolish (Below the Belt)
Level 14: Enrage
Level 17: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Lock N Load (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Rising Knee (Flowing Strikes)
Level 29: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Unbreakable (Better You Than Me)
Level 35: Defiance
Level 38: Fault Line (Challenging Strikes)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Pack (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations:
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Initiative (2/2)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Brawler: No Escape (3/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (3/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

Off to see if Kigatilik's up!

cptmillennium

I've finally committed to a respec, and in the end it's pretty much as you recommended Monsterdaddy. By keeping both STR and CON as secondaries I can favor one or the other depending on whether I need more offense or survivability, all without sacrificing any of my 120% crit severity or my 35% crit chance.

I've definitely given up a fair amount of health, defense and healing, but I'm making up for it by cycling Active Defenses and with a couple of Eruptions and a Necrulitic Elixir (hoping to pick up another of these eventually and maybe I can let go of BCR and Endorphin Rush).

Haymaker crits have gone as high as 37.5k on training dummies. Energy management is still an issue. If I could ask for one thing to improve Might it would be for an energy unlock or something like the Rush mechanic from MA. I've been getting around 4k DPS on Kigatilik, but haven't done as much testing as I'd like. I don't think I could get near that without running in melee damage role though.

Anyway, here's the build!

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Captain Millennium

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Martial Focus
Level 12: Acrobat
Level 15: Paramilitary Training
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Quick Recovery

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Beatdown (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Mighty Leap (Crippling Challenge)
Level 8: Demolish (Rank 2, Below the Belt)
Level 11: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 14: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Lock N Load (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Unbreakable (Better You Than Me)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Fault Line (Challenging Strikes)
Level 35: Defiance
Level 38: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Pack (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations:
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Initiative (2/2)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Brawler: No Escape (1/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (3/3)
Brawler: Setup (2/2)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

stergiosman

Please , if you gonna go with eruptions, use them when u solo stuff only, let tanks tank in grav :-/

Btw, do you really need no escape and setup?

cptmillennium

To be fair, if the tank's tanking, I won't need to use the Eruptions. However, I plan to run multiple roles, and will likely use high CON gear and Tank role when going against Gravitar. In that case, Eruptions are a last resort (I wouldn't be opposed to them just giving a really high Defense boost rather than complete immunity, by the way...but that's a topic for another thread).

Setup and Finishing Blow are what let me hit for almost 38k with Haymaker. You could swap out Brawler for Warden and get better Defense and Offense, and still hit for around 30k or so with less concern about your attack rotation, making it easier to play and more survivable. I've waffled on it for a week, and may still go back to that. I was getting about 3.8k DPS against Kigatilik with it, which is still pretty decent in my book. Highest I've gotten with this build was 5k, but that was with Circle of Arcane Power to fuel my energy bar, which I've passed on for thematic reasons.

cptmillennium

vitalityprime wrote: »

Can you post a screenshot of your 38k Haymaker?

Something like this might get me interested in the game again.

A couple months ago I was all happy with myself that I hit a 12k haymaker using Invuln.

38k seems glorious. Though I have a feeling I'll miss the survivability of Invuln in my pursuit of that 38k.

Hey Prime, I grabbed a screenshot from a post-38k-plus Haymaker. You can see it there in the Combat dialog box, as well as the build and stats I had when I got it.

http://i42.tinypic.com/212xy76.jpg

Interestingly, that massive crit was without the Depleted Uranium Core slotted. I'm not sure how that happened. Maybe I picked up a damage boost without noticing. At the time, I'd replace the DUC with a Gambler's Lucky Gem for a higher crit chance. Makes me wonder what the number would've been WITH the DUC...

I've gone back to experimenting with Form of the Tempest over Enrage because I seem to get far better energy returns out of it. I have no DEX mods slotted, which means my damage would be consistent regardless of how much I shifted from STR to CON or vice-versa, minus some of the melee damage bonus. I hit this 38k Haymaker without being fully invested in STR, which is nice since it allows me to have a decent pool of health still. Sadly, I wouldn't be able to pick up Titanic objects without switching builds, but that's just a party trick anyway.

I hope this thread is helping to showcase some of the problems with Might. It really needs an energy unlock badly, and more team-friendly knocks. I love the knockback on Roomsweeper and Haymaker, but let them both do a knockdown when they're tapped.

tdits

Strictly speaking, Unstoppable and Defiance are Might's energy unlock. Have you tried Unstoppable out? The extra Dodge and Avoid from WotW is nice, but I think the knock resistance and energy management of Unstoppable makes up for the lack of it. Especially since you can get good Dodge/Avoid from gear.

cptmillennium

Okay, last build change for awhile...I swear this time.

This gets me better energy management, and less reliance on knocks means I can tap-spam my way through alerts without catching aggro from my teammates. Same damage output.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Captain Millennium

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Martial Focus
Level 12: Acrobat
Level 15: Paramilitary Training
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Bodybuilder

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Beatdown (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Mighty Leap (Crippling Challenge)
Level 8: Demolish (Rank 2, Below the Belt)
Level 11: Form of the Tempest (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Lock N Load (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Unbreakable
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Fault Line (Challenging Strikes)
Level 35: Defiance
Level 38: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Pack (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations:
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Initiative (2/2)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Brawler: No Escape (1/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (3/3)
Brawler: Setup (2/2)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

flamingbunnyman

cptmillennium wrote: »

I love the knockback on Roomsweeper and Haymaker, but let them both do a knockdown when they're tapped.

Haymaker has 0 knockback when tapped. I can't remember if the tap triggers Enrage (I should check), but it has a don't-send-everything-flying option.

Roomsweeper, sadly, does not.

cptmillennium

That's the problem with Haymaker, the zero knockback on a tap doesn't trigger Enrage. In order to build stacks of Enrage and knockback resist safely (without angering your team), you end up needing to take another power like Uppercut that you'd probably otherwise skip. I've tried very short charges on Haymaker and that does work, but I tend to mistime it and not trigger the knock.

If Roomsweeper was brought down to a knockdown on tap and Haymaker got one added, you'd have a lot more flexibility in your playstyle, more room in your build, and you'd be more welcome on teams.

cptmillennium

tdits wrote: »

Strictly speaking, Unstoppable and Defiance are Might's energy unlock. Have you tried Unstoppable out? The extra Dodge and Avoid from WotW is nice, but I think the knock resistance and energy management of Unstoppable makes up for the lack of it. Especially since you can get good Dodge/Avoid from gear.

I tried Unstoppable, but with my Strength already pretty high, the extra knock resistance didn't seem very noticeable. I found I was really struggling with energy management using the knocks. I'd get a big surge of energy every few seconds from Unstoppable and Enrage, but it left me with these peaks and valleys rather than a fairly steady stream of blue. If you're already nearly full, that injection of energy just went to waste too.

I have 54% dodge from gear alone, and WotW only takes me to about 58. It does take my avoidance up from 58% to 70% though, which isn't bad. I've replaced Fault Line in my last build with Dragon Uppercut, and now my energy management issues are gone. I don't have any AoEs, but I'm not sure I mind that.

monsterdaddy

Cap, you should have been out farming Q not testing in PTS like I saw you so many times LOL! If it's any consolation I am still tweaking Scarab's build and it's been days and days of testing. But with just 7,777 HP he still tanks Gravitar well most of the time with DPS of about 4K in tank role. Yet, every battle is crazy because Scarab is always on the edge of dying. The 7,777 must be bringing him luck! The good news is with this DPS and CC on Shred, no one else has even come close to holding agg over him.

For your build, I am certain it's got to be energy management which is why Capt M is doing less DPS in melee role than Scarab in tank role. I would almost wager with Capt M in tank role with Defiance but with mainly his Melee role gear -- that his tank DPS might be very close to his melee role DPS just due to energy issues.

BTW, those massive crits sure can sway DPS numbers. I have seen Scarab on a 4 min test hit as high as 4.5K DPS. For fun, a Scarab setup on Melee role hit 5.7K DPS which is great but I scrapped the melee role idea as it was soooo squishy and 4K+ in tank is damn good.

cptmillennium

You're absolutely right, energy is my bottleneck. I do far better now with Dragon Uppercut in the rotation to get the cost discount and energy flow from Rush, though it still pains me to have to take another single-target punch when I'd prefer Fault Line or Thunderclap, if only for the variety. I'll have to do some DPS tests with this setup.

By the way, I caught you tanking Gravitar while I was on with Silver Sentinel (I did do SOME Q farming). You're right, you had her locked onto you and you were amazing. You did die right near the end, but your health bar barely moved up till then.

cptmillennium

Who wants to see one last build? For real this time! Probably...

For all my testing, I think I was being a little myopic. I was so focused on seeing 38k Haymakers that I lost way too much survivability. I went back to STR as a PSS where I can get pretty strong crits along with great survivability, with the ability to ebb and flow toward one or the other by way of crit chance or health/defense.

So one more time, and thanks for all those who've shown patience and interest both here and in the powerhouse during my days of testing. I've met some really nice folks!

This build can hit for around 27.5k in my tests so far, and against Kigitilik I reached 4.5k DPS. I could get more DPS by going Brawler instead of Warden, but Warden synergizes with the STR tree to let me put more into crit chance or health and defense by way of simply swapping out some DEX mods for some CON, although I could have fought Kigatilik all day without going into a more tanky setup. I could've even pumped more into DEX for higher crit chances and maybe seen my DPS go higher. All this is in Melee Damage role, by the way.

No more dual passives for tanking. I can get up to 13k hit points by going all in on CON, and with my active defenses that's more than enough. I do have a Necrulitic Elixir and a couple of Eruptions as well, though I don't like using the Eruptions in team content. I'm all about the elixir though.

And Monsterdaddy, I finally caved. It's that darned energy problem, and there's no way around it but with Circle of Arcane Power. Without it I can fight, but I cap out at around 3.1k DPS or so. I'll just have to write it into my bio that Caliburn helped me stabilize my powers. :biggrin:


PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Captain Millennium

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Martial Focus
Level 12: Acrobat
Level 15: Paramilitary Training
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Quick Recovery

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Beatdown (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Mighty Leap (Crippling Challenge)
Level 8: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 14: Demolish (Rank 2, Below the Belt)
Level 17: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 20: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Lock N Load (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Rising Knee (Flowing Strikes)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Tremor
Level 35: Circle of Arcane Power
Level 38: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Pack (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics (Rank 2)

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Upper Hand (3/3)
Warden: The Best Defense (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Initiative (2/2)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

monsterdaddy

You'll be back in the PTS soon..... :biggrin:

Hehe, we can't help it. I think the fact that we are testing DPS on a real live target has opened our eyes to what really counts in getting higher DPS. It's just more tedious but far more reliable info.

On another note, I finally decided on my retcon to Scarab. DPS dropped about 10% (still around 3.7-3.8K) but now he can solo Gravitar.

Now to work on an Ego Blade tank....

monsterdaddy

Hi Cap, I did a few tests. Using Scarab's PSS and Spec setup/gear I tried it in tank role with Defiance and then in Melee role with Unstoppable.

I only used Beatdown R3, Demolish R2 w/adv, and Haymaker R3. Aggressor R3 and Lock N Load R3 were my active offenses and I had Laser Knight's debuff the entire time. Testing in PTS for 4 minutes on Kigatilik (no dogs).

Attack sequence was:

Beatdown Full Combo
Haymaker (full charge) Setup buffed
Beatdown Full Combo
Haymaker (full charge) Setup buffed
Demolish (full charge)

Tank Role DPS 3.8K
Melee Role DPS 5.1K

I'm going to speculate on a few things that made my DPS higher:

I never blocked, just pressed Masterful Dodge a few times. That's why I like Laser Knight despite the debuff, never having to hold a block is worth quite a bit of DPS.

Energy, my CoAP was running at 21 per tick. Maybe 1-3 attacks never reached full charge due to unlucky timing.

Honestly, I think Might DPS is pretty good if you can figure out the energy issues. My melee role setup was pretty squishy and at risk of dying even to Kiga at times. Sometimes, doing DPS as a tank might lead to steadier DPS output since you heal and block less often.

cptmillennium

Thanks MD, I really appreciate you taking the time to test that.

I've been experimenting with going back to INT as a SSS to use MSA. It's not as strong as CoAP but it does offer mobility and helps level out the peaks and valleys of Enrage's energy returns. It means losing DEX and some crit chance though, so I'm n the fence.

My two fondest wishes for Might are more knockdowns built into the attacks and better energy management.

flamingbunnyman

cptmillennium wrote: »

My two fondest wishes for Might are more knockdowns built into the attacks and better energy management.

It's funny how two people can see the same set different ways. Might is the reason that Energy on my main remains under control. I LOVE Defiance.

Now knockdowns? I'll agree with you 100% on that. Until then, my only Enrage user is very happy that Iron Cyclone + Vortex Technique fits perfectly with his theme..

monsterdaddy

I feel Aggressor is almost a requirement for Enrage form too. And I wish Mighty Leap was a knockdown like Pounce instead of stun.

But yes Defiance feels like a requirement.

cptmillennium

Defiance is great, but it limits your choice of roles unless you want to SS INT and get MSA, which means giving up significant crit chance. That may seem like balance except that MA, on the other hand, has a built-in and pretty effective energy management mechanic, and it doesn't even require a separate power selection like most energy unlocks.

If the energy return from Enrage's knocks was given over time as opposed to a big surge it would help balance out the peaks and valleys you tend to get without Defiance.