Too easy or too hard they're just no pleasing some people

forrksakesexco

Been away a bit and had the urge to do the tutorial again, so rolled up a new toon and got to work.

I started off with steady shot and 2GM and the Black Talon fight seemed a lot easier than I remember but I believe 2GM got a tweak in the 100 days or so that I was away.
Did 2GM get a tweak or did the tut get nerfed?

Began to work on the toon it's based on the female in the Defiance trailer (the live action one)
here if you're that interested/ignorant... actually it's the modified one with more song on it but NVM
Swapped 2GM for SMG burst and got Night Warrior as a passive, perfect right! So having stomped Waylon Talos in one shot I remembered the difficulty slider. It's known even by me that the early game is much much more challenging than anything else really so I thought I'd give it a whirl on elite.

Bad idea huh! Having entered Blinded by Psience on elite I well and truly got my **** kicked by the first mob I encountered. They seemed to know exactly where I was and my puny R2 SMG couldn't take em down fast enough. I ducked out before I lost all my stars and went back in on Wimpy level as usual.

Build is so far...
SS Dex
Steady Shot
SMG Burst R2
Night Warrior and the obligatory Shadow Strike

I'd have thought this would be able to do at least a mob or two on early elite but I guess not. Should I have tried to close the gap and gone for a shad strike for the big guy I mean they could see me just fine?

Out of interest can anybody suggest an Elite all the way build I'm curious?
I remember an electric which I switched to elite roundabout level 8 but that was a looong time ago.

ajanus

I've never actually paid attention to the slider before 40 lol...but your post intrigues me.

Just thinking off the top of my head right now, but I would assume 2GM is really the way to go for the first few levels of this. I would probably pick up Invulnerability or Quarry at 8, then Concentration at 11...your filler will likely need to be Holdout Shot for the early heals. The problem with Night Warrior on Elite is the "Elite" buff grants a ton of perception to each mob (at least it used to...). With Dex so low to start with, you probably can't overcome their perception...although I would be interested to hear your results if you give it a serious stealth attempt later on.

You might can get an Epidemic toon going early...6 or 8?

I think around 8 is going to be the best we can hope for at the time. You might can get away with it if you take a builder and defensive passive at 6. Maybe the Heavy Weapon one, Cleave, and Defiance.

I might toy around with some and post back later.

ajanus

Update:

A friend and I both made new toons. No Hierlooms or any of the 11k questionite gear.

I started mine with Bludgeon, Cleave, Defiance. Immediately turned it on Elite. Did the Defender sewer mission at 7, picked up Eruption at 8. Went and did the Wayland Talos mission, then did the Kevin Poe mission. Hit 10 after that. Did not use any devices other than turning into the purple gang member for the Talos mission. Poe was kinda tough. I got lucky and he dropped a green orb during the fight or he might have gotten me.

Oh also, started with The Master, Super CON, Con talent...second ss Str.

We both did this completely solo, just had open communication throughout.

He started with Infernal Bolts, Regen, Devour Essence. He took CON primary and picked up Pre after, with Divinity as his starting template. His 8 ability was Venomous Breath. He just finished Talos and said nothing even deals damage to him even on Elite.

I can only assume that ANY defensive passive build can steamroll Elite content all the way to 40.

sparkrocker

ajanus wrote: »

Update:

...He started with Infernal Bolts, Regen, Devour Essence. He took CON primary and picked up Pre after, with Divinity as his starting template. His 8 ability was Venomous Breath. He just finished Talos and said nothing even deals damage to him even on Elite.

I can only assume that ANY defensive passive build can steamroll Elite content all the way to 40.

Devour Essence + Defensive Passive = Teh Win for PvE - even elite. add in supernatural power and epidemic and its easy mode.

flamingbunnyman

Swapped 2GM for SMG burst

I don't know if it would have been enough to keep you alive, but 2GM is better than SMG. R2 SMG does base 98-140 damage per half-second tick, based on the number of targets hit (more targets = less damage to each). Rank 1 2GM does 145 damage per half-second tick throughout the whole maintain, or 174 at R2.

Granted, SMG is an AoE, but I find it more efficient - especially at low level when you're weak - to kill a single enemy quickly, completely eliminating the incoming damage from him, rather than using an AoE and taking full damage from all enemies.

agentnx5

topic's title wrote:

Too easy or too hard they're just no pleasing some people

I find this title to be rather... ignorant.

Why?

Well it's not really the whole truth. I would agree that it's true that there is no pleasing some people -- a few will always say it's too easy, and a few others will say it's too hard. Correct.

However...

The issue becomes if there's an exploit or a brokenly overpowered device that is breaking the enjoyment of the game.
If everything is too easy, then it gets boring without the challenge.
If everything is too hard, then it can just lead to frustration.
If an exploit is giving an unfair advantage to those using the cheat, then that's an issue that needs to be fixed ASAP.

There are VALID reasons to complain if things fall outside the balance in the middle. There isn't a "perfect" balance, but that doesn't mean striving for a balanced, fun, fairly challenging game isn't worthy of effort. Come on...




The rest of this topic is irrelevant to me honestly, it's just the title that is really irksome & ignorant-sounding, at least to me.

gamakyte

This game is too in the middle (or is that me)

queencesta

I personally like how, as a freeform, I can build my own 'difficulty' and further set my difficulty mode on the fly. CO here can be INTENSELY challenging...if you want it to be, as a freeform. Granted, most I say such to ask 'why should I gimp myself for a challenge', but that's the price of freedom.

And with a freeform build, you can quite literally build something that makes everything quite difficult, or most everything very easy. How do you want to play it? If you want to build a god on earth that is almost inconceivable to kill, you can! If you want to build an eclectic, low-powered something with only modest offensive capabilities and relatively weak defenses...you can!

Its part of what I love most about freeform, and it holds true even with AT's to a lesser extent. Don't play a powerhouse if you want a consistently harder game!

Simple, I think.

ashensnow

agentnx5 wrote: »

The rest of this topic is irrelevant to me honestly, it's just the title that is really irksome & ignorant-sounding, at least to me.

The OP seems to be referring to himself with the title. He started off finding the tutorial fight against Black Talon too easy, and ended up finding the first mob in Blinded by Psience too hard.

I really think you might be reading too much into what was said here (understandable considering how often we see complaint topics about the game being too easy/difficult)..

flamingbunnyman

I'm still baffled by his seemingly unprovoked rant about exploits.

forrksakesexco

Thanx for your replies and damn that elite Int buff!
Sticking with wimpy level for a while lolz!
Got Holdout Shot and Stimpack for a small heal, not the best but but but...... It looks good!
Y'know one of these days I'll do a non theme toon that has all the best stuff... one of these days!
What really bothers me about the title is the glaring punctuation error... It shoulda been "there's just no pleasing some people" and no way to change it now aaaaaaaaarrrrrrgh!

ajanus

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

I'm still baffled by his seemingly unprovoked rant about exploits.

I think he misunderstood when I said I took Eruption at level 8. I think that Legacy Device that people use is called Eruption...but I meant the Heavy Weapon ability Eruption. That would be the only reason I can think of for that whole post.

I specifically did that whole thing to not use any gear/devices to give my toon an edge over the content. I only used what was given to me, found, or gotten through missions. I didn't even use Heroic Resonance or the free buffs I got out of the starter box.

I know there are other builds that can do this, the OP just asked for a few ideas...so I thought I would take the challenge and give it a go.

On another note entirely...I do think Elite should be designed with Free Forms in mind. It should be borderline impossible for ATs...this is the HIGHEST difficulty...either that, or give us an even higher difficulty to truly test our skills, even using the most advanced builds. I shouldn't have to build a sucky character on purpose in order to achieve some sense of accomplishment. "Insane Difficulty"

flamingbunnyman

ajanus wrote: »

I think he misunderstood when I said I took Eruption at level 8. I think that Legacy Device that people use is called Eruption...but I meant the Heavy Weapon ability Eruption. That would be the only reason I can think of for that whole post.

You're probably right. There's a few things in the game called "Eruption", including one very abuseable device. I tend to think of the Heavy Weapon attack first, so I got what you meant, and totally missed the possible misunderstanding.

smoochan

Add some healing. Congrats, you're a elite build

gamakyte

I just tried sneak on elite. Wooped if facing anything over my level. They saw me coming from before I knew I was there. I found it a real struggle against blue dudes. One shotted Poe which I thought was funny. Guess hes dumb. :biggrin:

While on this subject can I ask for advice on a similar build?

Im making a new freeform similar to a night avenger.

A night avenger has Dex, Str and Ego by default (innate characteristic) I was tempted to take Int for perception boost and cool down reduction for shadow strike, over str and boost str outside of SS to help my kicks. Im using thundering kicks for concept and the dodge boost and will heavily base the character around melee with boomerang toss, ricochet throw and maybe Strafing Run for ranged damage. Should I forget about perception, boost my cooldown reduction with items and stick with str for fighting attacks?

Im very squishy right now and am thinking Masterful dodge, good avoidance gear and some good heals will help with that.

ashensnow

gamakyte wrote: »

I just tried sneak on elite. Wooped if facing anything over my level. They saw me coming from before I knew I was there. I found it a real struggle against blue dudes. One shotted Poe which I thought was funny. Guess hes dumb. :biggrin:

While on this subject can I ask for advice on a similar build?

Im making a new freeform similar to a night avenger.

A night avenger has Dex, Str and Ego by default (innate characteristic) I was tempted to take Int for perception boost and cool down reduction for shadow strike, over str and boost str outside of SS to help my kicks. Im using thundering kicks for concept and the dodge boost and will heavily base the character around melee with boomerang toss, ricochet throw and maybe Strafing Run for ranged damage. Should I forget about perception, boost my cooldown reduction with items and stick with str for fighting attacks?

Im very squishy right now and am thinking Masterful dodge, good avoidance gear and some good heals will help with that.

Perception is of limited utility outside of PvP but INT is one of my favorite secondary SS (in no small part because I am fond of Quarry as a passive).

The damage buff from STR as a SS has significant diminishing returns, and is part of the additive damage buff diminishing returns. Unless you are using melee knocks, or are wanting to resist knocks (again particularly useful in PvP) or are using Enraged, STR is often best statted/geared for outside of your SS.

Masterful Dodge for those oh $@#$ moments is very nice. Also consider Evasive Maneuvers (with a lunge to get back into melee). The dodge buff from evasive maneuvers, as well as that from thundering kicks, are straight additions to your dodge score.

gamakyte

Thanks for the details on attributes ash. EM and MD will hopefully keep me a live a bit longer.

Im turning difficulty down to difficult for most lairs, only using elite in the open (is difficulty level even used in main regions? Elite seems just as easy as easy) I might add a defensive passive for real tough moments. A lot of points spent on passives that way though.

forrksakesexco

(is difficulty level even used in main regions? Elite seems just as easy as easy

No difficulty setting does not apply in the open world, so the next time you're soloing Teleiosaurus or Nadir of the Invaders remember this is easy level.
SOP for my good self over time is to stick to Normal until after the first bit of MI level 30+. By this time the build has come together properly and I pick up some summon devices, maybe some pit traps from MI. I then dial up to elite and jump into Demonflame - I've said it before but it gives a variety of challenges and is fairly short, a good build test. Devices (including a purchased sidekick sometimes) come in handy against the Left Hand.
Occaisionally I'll go out looking for trouble, find it and then whine on the forums.

Dual passives can work but does it fit with your character concept?
Well made squishies should be able to handle anything that doesn't require a full team on leet (Resistance may have broken this) but yeah I am aware that my squishies are not gonna be able to solo Andrithal or even Moreaus Lab. On the other hand my squishies are more likely to come first in a Clarence Fest for example.

pwestolemyname

ajanus wrote: »

I can only assume that ANY defensive passive build can steamroll Elite content all the way to 40.

This is not quite true, there are a few missions that will hurt, no matter what you do, but I would not run Elite at low levels with anything but a defensive passive.

gamehobo

The game is not too easy nor too hard.

It's too imbalanced.