I thought my toon was strong, sigh...

omegus42

A while ago I mentioned how I was having difficulties with successful duel matches. My creations seemed pretty powerful doing solo misions or going up against master villains and supervillains, even more than one of them. When I have participated in a duel match, different story. In the beginning my character was getting dropped easily. Well I did a bit of research, took a bit of advise and started creating a character that would be powerful or equiped well enough to deal with other players in PVP. Did I succeed? Yes and no, well mostly no. I did win a few matches. Felt pretty good when I won my first match. My character was level 33 at the time. My opponent was 2 or 3 levels higher. I beat him with ease. It wasn't until I started entering the arena (I think) at level 38 when my victories started turning into humiliating defeats. I fought this one dude yesterday. Don't remember the name of his toon accept that he looked somewhat like Black Lightning from DC Comics. It was a pretty good fight I thought. It ended in a draw. I think he would have won if he pressed his attacks. One time he knocked me so far out of the arena, I almost got lost trying to find my way back. Today was a bad day. I got my behind handed to me quite a bit. I remember switching characters to my other level 38 toon, fighting/beating the dual swords out of someone about 10 levels lower than me just to get my confidence back. Sad indeed. Anyway a fought a few more times, mostly level 40s players, that seemed to be all who wanted to fight at the time. I got broken up real quick by a few fighters. Not feeling so good right now. Think I'll take a break for awhile until the wounds heal. Interestingly I don't think it's my character build that's the problem, well maybe part of it. I can't seem to find the keys fast enough. Some of my opponents were really quick. It was difficult to keep up with them. I think part of my problem is I need to manuver my toon better so I can react faster to different attacks.

Well if you didn't get board or fall asleep reading all of this, please let me know what you think?

roughbearmattach

Many people dedicated to PvP toons have things in common:

a. Build focuses on two attack powers, one of which has a cooldown. There is a short list of attack powers focused on in duels, such as Strafing Run, Ebon Ruin, Two-Gun Mojo, Force Cascade, and a few others.

b. Build has ways to significantly shorten cooldowns.

c. Build has powerful Legacy devices, like Eruption, Necrulitic Elixir, and Neuroelectric Pulse Generator.

d. Build has Legion gear with rank 7+ mods.


Once you cover points a-d, then you can really start to optimize your toon to be successful in PvP.


I wish there was a second-tier, organized dueling circuit, for people who want PvP, but don't focus on making builds as I described above. Ah well.

flamingbunnyman

Taking a level 38 into duels against level 40s is asking to be horribly beaten. The best equipment can't be used until 40, so they will have a huge advantage, even if they just have Heroic gear with rank 5s, and not all the stuff Roughbear mentioned.

Dedicated PVPers not only have top tier builds that they've poured millions of resources and hundreds of hours into (and sometimes frightening amounts of cash), but they also have hundreds of hours of practice, learning how to handle their toon, and how to counter the mist common tactics, and as many uncommon ones as possible, too.

ashensnow

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

Taking a level 38 into duels against level 40s is asking to be horribly beaten. The best equipment can't be used until 40, so they will have a huge advantage, even if they just have Heroic gear with rank 5s, and not all the stuff Roughbear mentioned.

Dedicated PVPers not only have top tier builds that they've poured millions of resources and hundreds of hours into (and sometimes frightening amounts of cash), but they also have hundreds of hours of practice, learning how to handle their toon, and how to counter the mist common tactics, and as many uncommon ones as possible, too.

A lot of insight here.

clawsandeffect

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

Taking a level 38 into duels against level 40s is asking to be horribly beaten. The best equipment can't be used until 40, so they will have a huge advantage, even if they just have Heroic gear with rank 5s, and not all the stuff Roughbear mentioned.

Dedicated PVPers not only have top tier builds that they've poured millions of resources and hundreds of hours into (and sometimes frightening amounts of cash), but they also have hundreds of hours of practice, learning how to handle their toon, and how to counter the mist common tactics, and as many uncommon ones as possible, too.

That's not just true of this game, this is the case with dedicated PvPers of just about any game.

Taking on a dedicated PvPer when you are a casual PvPer is very similar to the average high school football team going up against the Super Bowl champions. They will have had lots of practice at playing their toon and countering what other people might do, while the casual PvPer will have things thrown at them that they have no idea how to counter because the game's AI never does them in PvE fights.

A dedicated PvPer's build will also almost always be specced specifically for PvP. Their build may or may not be completely useless in a PvE scenario, but it will be very effective at defeating other players. A PvE build will be versatile enough to handle many scenarios, but a PvP build only needs to do one thing: Kill another player very quickly.

The downside to games with dedicated PvPers in them is: The only way you will consistently beat those players is to become one of them.

theravenforce

Yeah, if only there was some sort of tier for theme builders and non "intense" PvP toons, people who liked to duel in maps without fear of AoPM/Conc/FG/ER/SR+2GM style builds.

I personally go into PvP matches and just use Psi Lash, got me 4 kills last time >_>

ashensnow

clawsandeffect wrote: »

A dedicated PvPer's build will also almost always be specced specifically for PvP. Their build may or may not be completely useless in a PvE scenario, but it will be very effective at defeating other players. A PvE build will be versatile enough to handle many scenarios, but a PvP build only needs to do one thing: Kill another player very quickly.

This is a lot less true, with the exception of CC and NttG, in CO than in other games. Often what makes a good PvP build in CO makes a truly stellar PvE build.

monaahiru

CON as Primaly SS, DEX as secondary.

Take ur spec trees from Protector & Vindicator / Protector Mastery and...

This logic also works for STR Primary build.
All Builds or Powers comes afterward...

gamehobo

theravenforce wrote: »

Yeah, if only there was some sort of tier for theme builders and non "intense" PvP toons, people who liked to duel in maps without fear of AoPM/Conc/FG/ER/SR+2GM style builds.

I personally go into PvP matches and just use Psi Lash, got me 4 kills last time >_>

Come do DE:LTA PvP you're cordially invited.

roughbearmattach

gamehobo wrote: »

Come do DE:LTA PvP you're cordially invited.

DE:LTA sounds like it is the type of PvP I am looking for.

selphea

ashensnow wrote: »

This is a lot less true, with the exception of CC and NttG, in CO than in other games. Often what makes a good PvP build in CO makes a truly stellar PvE build.

Actually there's quite a bit more. There's also Trauma, some form of disable like Ego Sleep or Knocks, mass amounts of instant heals, burst damage e.g. from Strafing Run, Knock Resist, Perception or PBAoEs to counter Shadow Strikers, mobility and so on.

The truly stellar PvE builds typically focus more on sustained damage take advantage of the AI's lack of movement to gain performance by relying on powers that require the target to sit in the one spot, e.g. AoED Dino builds, Conflag builds with mass debuffs, Tanking builds that rely on Circle of Primal Dominion and Devour Essence and so on.

A geared PvP build certainly makes an above average PvE build, but if you want to talk about fast farming, a dedicated PvE build is going to come out ahead.

Then again, the Throwing Blades exploit might throw everything out of wack too.

ashensnow

selphea wrote: »

Actually there's quite a bit more. There's also Trauma, some form of disable like Ego Sleep or Knocks, mass amounts of instant heals, burst damage e.g. from Strafing Run, Knock Resist, Perception or PBAoEs to counter Shadow Strikers, mobility and so on.

The truly stellar PvE builds typically focus more on sustained damage take advantage of the AI's lack of movement to gain performance by relying on powers that require the target to sit in the one spot, e.g. AoED Dino builds, Conflag builds with mass debuffs, Tanking builds that rely on Circle of Primal Dominion and Devour Essence and so on.

A geared PvP build certainly makes an above average PvE build, but if you want to talk about fast farming, a dedicated PvE build is going to come out ahead.

Then again, the Throwing Blades exploit might throw everything out of wack too.

Yeah a farming build is something else entirely. As much as farming occurs in PvE, I usually dont consider farming builds to be normal PvE builds (I know that when I intend to do some serious farming in a game I generally alter my build specifically for that task, and perhaps even that farming spot/mob group)

As to the other elements you describe, I don't consider most of them to be PvP specific in the same way that NttG's utility is generally useful only in PvP (or if you dont have either a ranged attack or flight in PvE, and even then its usually possible to draw flying foes down to ground level). The same basic idea applies to CC in PvE except for tanks of course. I admit that I have used CC, on a non tank character, just for the damage debuff in groups without a tank, but I think that is pretty unusual and not an indication of general PvE utility.

Trauma, yeah. Not too many foes in PvE have sufficient self heal, or any, for that to be needed.

lovehammer1

roughbearmattach wrote: »

Many people dedicated to PvP toons have things in common:

a. Build focuses on two attack powers, one of which has a cooldown. There is a short list of attack powers focused on in duels, such as Strafing Run, Ebon Ruin, Two-Gun Mojo, Force Cascade, and a few others.

b. Build has ways to significantly shorten cooldowns.

c. Build has powerful Legacy devices, like Eruption, Necrulitic Elixir, and Neuroelectric Pulse Generator.

d. Build has Legion gear with rank 7+ mods.


Once you cover points a-d, then you can really start to optimize your toon to be successful in PvP.


I wish there was a second-tier, organized dueling circuit, for people who want PvP, but don't focus on making builds as I described above. Ah well.

WOW. Basically showing this guy how to become "Soul-less". Devices? Really? Ebon ruin? Strafing Run? Do we really need more people who think this a good way to build? Sigh...

I do like the idea of other builds that are not built off of the standard stuff.

roughbearmattach

Don't kill the messenger, lovehammer. I am just saying what good PvP toons have.

I don't make toons like that, myself.

omegus42

Thanks for your comments everyone!