I can't quite tell what the heal has been reduced to.. could you be a bit more specific as to what "significant" is? Also the heal is/was supposed to be around the caster, not around the target.
Mind Break seems more useful now (specifically at lower levels). I need to still check that Mind Break Consumes the heal to the caster correctly too (and not to the enemy as it tended to do before).
As to the significance of the heal...personally Mentella's has been reduced from 140 hps to around...42hps so roughly reduced (in my case) by 100hps. Then again...I haven't checked for discrepancy between her old gear and her current one (namely full Heroics R6 vs Full Legions R7-9).
You may also note that, applying confuse to targets who are affected by Dependancy CONFUSES the heal mechanic so it heals the enemy LOL
And oh yes, Mind Break does fully heal, damage and energize caster on detonation.
For the power Redirected Force (Force Field/Force Barrier rename pls!!!!)I was thinking of a Dome shape graphic like this? Of course it would be bigger than what I was able to capture but something along those lines rather than Super Nimbus of Force.
While I disagree with the mechanics Raven proposed, having Redirected force use this animation is SO much preferred to any more Single Bubbles.
Specifically because the singular bubbles tend to give the impression that they are shielding HP like all the other bubbles that size (Protection Field, Mindful Reinforcement, and PRE Mastery and that device from Nimbus of Bloodmoon).
If you don't feel comfortable with the large bubble how about a pillar/circle that uses the "distortion" effect from Crushing Wave and Distortion Acrobatics?
While I disagree with the mechanics Raven proposed, having Redirected force use this animation is SO much preferred to any more Single Bubbles.
Specifically because the singular bubbles tend to give the impression that they are shielding HP like all the other bubbles that size (Protection Field, Mindful Reinforcement, and PRE Mastery and that device from Nimbus of Bloodmoon).
If you don't feel comfortable with the large bubble how about a pillar/circle that uses the "distortion" effect from Crushing Wave and Distortion Acrobatics?
I'm actually fine with the current mechanics, the post just came as a massive package..the highlight being the animation..using THAT AoE animation + Maintain = pure WIN.
It would be a failure to not incorporate that type of graphic. Why? Because its already in game as Alert "holding cells" on Vehicles as a form of Containment field as well as a self shield.
The problem with matching the bubble's size to match the range of the effect is well beyond the limitations of the character model.
Then do the same thing as they can currently do with Alert Bubbles...I cant imagine why they'd have a giant AoE shield then place tiny bubbles on all inside...seems a little dumb to me...
If someone is super-huge... then just allow (as long as they are in range) an icon on them.
The tooltip states Congress of Selves is a "Hybrid Passive". It's meant to be used in any role.
It is obvious that these powers are the original 9/5/12 versions of the powers for the most part. The changes appropriated the Congress of Selves passive to be SUPPORT because of the overlap it once had with Ego Form.
Putting it in offensive form was deemed too out of balance for the other DoT powers from both Darkness and Infernal frameworks.
It needs to be re-updated for the exact same reasons.
- -
The tooltip on MANY of the powers are not quite correct. Opening a "Anything Goes" passive is game balance suicide and sets a horribad precedent
...The tooltip on MANY of the powers are not quite correct. Opening a "Anything Goes" passive is game balance suicide and sets a horribad precedent
I don't think this is a case of tooltip error since the devs had to make a new classification of passive.
I agree it sets a bad precedent though. It's not even that much of a "hybrid" passive to begin with. Congress of Selves is more like a mistyped offensive energy form passive.
Incorrect. Congress of Selves is a SUPPORT Passive, which means it should ONLY work in HYBRID and SUPPORT Roles. Nothing else.
So therefore, that stands as a massive BUG.
No, they specifically made it an all-role passive.
You'll recall that there are fans of Telepathy that wanted a DoT-centric offensive passive.
Instead of making two separate passives, they made one and fiddled with the code to make it unrestricted.
While it sets a precedent that may be troublesome in the future and removes a CC-focused support passive from the realm of immediate possibility, it's not technically a bug.
Just because you don't like the way something's implemented doesn't necessarily mean it's a bug.
Remember, not everyone shares all of yours' and Jaybezz' views on how the direction of the game should go.
Then do the same thing as they can currently do with Alert Bubbles...I cant imagine why they'd have a giant AoE shield then place tiny bubbles on all inside...seems a little dumb to me...
If someone is super-huge... then just allow (as long as they are in range) an icon on them.
Someone asked Crush about this at one point. The Alert Bubbles (and duel bubbles) are handled differently from power graphics, and aren't readily usable. Doesn't mean they can't make a giant bubble graphic, but the Alert/Duel bubbles were confirmed to not be a usable source for the graphic.
I think it depends on if they can steal Splosions away from his NW duties for long enough to get new graphics created/hooked up.
Props to Sage, also in my preference with unrestricted passives, I'd like to see the functionality of the passives to vary on role. (I don't want anything from CoS to be team based in the Offense roles, and I don't want heavy damage in support, etc).
In thinking about unrestricted passives, in general...
The worst possible combinations you're going to run into are tanky passives in the Offensive Roles, and that's already sort of a thing with the existence of Quarry/Night Warrior/Way of the Warrior.
You go from "20% multiplicative damage boost and practically unkillable" to "20% multiplicative damage boost and actually unkillable". Which will mostly kill build variety.
That's the main thing you have to watch out for, really.
AoPM in offensive role could be dealt with by changing the scaling (kind of like how it does now between Hybrid and support)but it still might be problematic. Though I fear that less than some other options I can think of.
No one's going to willingly choose to use any of the energy form passives outside of Offense/Hybrid roles, unless they're doing it for theme. They're too weak to warrant using.
Quarry/WotW/NW? Yeah, I can see those being popular, but that basically means you're opening them up to Tank role (not a big deal) and Support role (unkillable healers, but no one PvPs anymore so lol at that).
I don't see many other problems besides those, assuming they got a wild notion and made all the passives unrestricted (which I don't think they'll do).
If they do this with only certain passives, I'd suggest:
*Personal Force Field - This would allow it to be used with Support and Offensive roles. It works better as shielding for an alpha strike than as a real tank passive, at least without building around it. Can't think of a reason to use it in Support other than being reaaalllly paranoid about aggro.
*Regeneration - Should be obvious, really. Regen on melee damage dealer, etc.
No, they specifically made it an all-role passive.
You'll recall that there are fans of Telepathy that wanted a DoT-centric offensive passive.
Instead of making two separate passives, they made one and fiddled with the code to make it unrestricted.
While it sets a precedent that may be troublesome in the future and removes a CC-focused support passive from the realm of immediate possibility, it's not technically a bug.
Just because you don't like the way something's implemented doesn't necessarily mean it's a bug.
Remember, not everyone shares all of yours' and Jaybezz' views on how the direction of the game should go.
You two are just the loudest.
You may recall CoS being listed as a Offensive/Hybrid passive at first, thank god it was changed to Hybrid/Support. Correct me if I am wrong but I didnt see anything in the patch notes which suggested this was meant to be case. If its not in the patch notes, then for all intents and purposes, it is a bug until proven otherwise by a Developer.
There are alot of things in CO I am not fond of but I dont scream bug, this is clearly a bug. You honestly think they would allow a all round passive? And not expect to do more work to bring other passives into that sort of fashion? And then when everyone starts crying NERF because AoPM + Ranged/Melee Role style builds start pouring out...they'll have a lovely mess on their hands.
Regardless, Jaybezz and I may be "the loudest" but look where it got us? Telepathy Update is FINALLY here after months of crying and shouting all over the forums, when others were telling us to shut up or give up. Back to the main point though. It is a bug in my book, at least until it is confirmed otherwise.
Someone asked Crush about this at one point. The Alert Bubbles (and duel bubbles) are handled differently from power graphics, and aren't readily usable. Doesn't mean they can't make a giant bubble graphic, but the Alert/Duel bubbles were confirmed to not be a usable source for the graphic.
I think it depends on if they can steal Splosions away from his NW duties for long enough to get new graphics created/hooked up.
That someone was likely me, I've been wanting AoE Shielding for goodness knows how long. I was refering to the duel/alert bubble size not the actual graphic. As far as I am concerned the graphic is horrific, for the force powerset (if it used an Alert Bubble Style graphic), maybe it could be a skin for tech themed builds?
I hope they are able to, I'd hate for it to go live with "look at me I am a glorified Nimbus of Force effect"
As for a general view on tri functional passives..
PFF: Would be a massive fan of PFF in support role, although it would have to provide some sort of shielding bonus to affected parties, to make it fill the role of a support passive. Not so hot on the Offensive Role version..but I guess it could work. I've actually wanted to use PFF in the Support Role for a while, but then again, PFF is fine the way it is role wise.
All passives being able to work in all roles...would cause issues and at the same time allow for greater flexibility.
As it stands I believe I would be right to say that Balance issues in CO are high enough without doing this to passives.
Anyway yeah..on Thursday..provided we dont get another patch..I'll do some MOAR testing..currently celebrating the end of exams :biggrin:
That someone was likely me, I've been wanting AoE Shielding for goodness knows how long. I was refering to the duel/alert bubble size not the actual graphic. As far as I am concerned the graphic is horrific, for the force powerset (if it used an Alert Bubble Style graphic), maybe it could be a skin for tech themed builds?
I hope they are able to, I'd hate for it to go live with "look at me I am a glorified Nimbus of Force effect"
No, it was in-game.
And you aren't the only one that's been asking for AoE shielding.
And you aren't the only one that's been asking for AoE shielding.
Was it during the live stream event in the PH? If so then yeah..I was there..I asked..
I didnt say I was the ONLY one asking for it/wanting it...I'm glad that its in, once it all worked out and the graphic is altered it will be an awesome supporting power.
More proof they are using the non-updated version of the powers. This too was fixed come November's push
The confuse = heal to enemies was also fixed..but its now a bugged effect...lets just hope this update actually updates and doesn't fall into ANOTHER 9 month wait >_>
Interrupting a player resets ALL of their cooldowns to 1 second. Allowing their longer cooldowns (Actives) to be spammed.
BUG
DoT Penetration does not seem to work PvP against players with invulnerable.. which has generally not been the case with other penetration IIRC. After much maths I found that the DPS done by the Telepathy DoT powers are very very low and thus were just not powerful enough (on my build) to break the threshold. Other builds will likely have more success.
BUG
Players can still Dodge DoTs. I don't think this is intended anymore
BUG
"Double Agent" is still bugged in the UNTIL building. He/They are west of the Until Requisitions Officer and really bothering me.
Interrupts do not work on Teliosarus. (Monster Island). Will check other baddies to see their response to the mechanic.
Kigatilik - Respects Interrupt
MegaTerek - Respects Interrupt
Ripper- Respects Interrupt
Teliosaurus - Does NOT respect Interrupt in Open World.. DOES in MI Crisis
Open Mission Mega-Destroid - Respects Interrupt (need to test on Resistance)
Hmm.. I thought this could be due to the Levels of the enemies I was facing so I went down to a lvl 26 dude named Grond.
The confuse = heal to enemies was also fixed..but its now a bugged effect...lets just hope this update actually updates and doesn't fall into ANOTHER 9 month wait >_>
If they got another $15 bucks from me by pulling out the carrot I may scream
DoT Penetration does not seem to work PvP against players with invulnerable.. which has generally not been the case with other penetration IIRC. After much maths I found that the DPS done by the Telepathy DoT powers are very very low and thus were just not powerful enough (on my build) to break the threshold. Other builds will likely have more success.
Penetration is against damage resistance (like Defense, Defiance, the resist portion of Invuln, Regen's resistance buff, etc), not flat damage reduction (like Invuln's flat reduction portion, IDF, Unstoppable). They'll probably need to tweak Congress of Selves if they don't want the DoT buffing to be useless against flat reduction.
Most of the other resistance-penetration powers (like Dragon's Wrath, Two-Gun Mojo, melee attacks used with Night Warrior, etc) have a high-enough base power to not lose that much to the 100-150 or so points of flat reduction you can get on Invuln.
The Telepathy DoTs, unfortunately, do not.
So far as I know, there's no mechanic at the moment that gets through flat damage reduction, other than "use a big-enough spike so that the 150 or so damage you lose is just a drop in the bucket". It's kind of like trying to hit through Dodge.
I think it's mainly an issue because most PvE bosses have Defiance or Lightning Reflexes instead. The main use of Invuln has been in PvP, and we know how quickly they address balance issues there.
Maybe half the speed of the DoT ticks and then double the damage per tick? Put the damage into larger packets, basically.
You may recall CoS being listed as a Offensive/Hybrid passive at first, thank god it was changed to Hybrid/Support. Correct me if I am wrong but I didnt see anything in the patch notes which suggested this was meant to be case. If its not in the patch notes, then for all intents and purposes, it is a bug until proven otherwise by a Developer.
No. If it functions as the tooltip suggests it is not a bug. Something that does what its documentation says it is supposed to do is not bugged by definition of the term. A developer does not need to, "prove," that something is not bugged when they have already told you that it is working as intended in the documentation.
There are alot of things in CO I am not fond of but I dont scream bug, this is clearly a bug. You honestly think they would allow a all round passive?
They had to specifically introduce a new mechanic and insert documentation for it in order to produce this effect. They may change their minds, but actively doing something, documenting that you are doing it, and then putting that thing up for testing and asking for feedback on it are all pretty solid counters to your argument.
It is a bug in my book, at least until it is confirmed otherwise.
It has been confirmed otherwise, in the power's documentation. Read the tooltip. They may change their minds about this implementation, but doing what the documentation says is proof that something is not a bug.
No. If it functions as the tooltip suggests it is not a bug. Something that does what its documentation says it is supposed to do is not bugged by definition of the term. A developer does not need to, "prove," that something is not bugged when they have already told you that it is working as intended in the documentation. They had to specifically introduce a new mechanic and insert documentation for it in order to produce this effect. They may change their minds, but actively doing something, documenting that you are doing it, and then putting that thing up for testing and asking for feedback on it are all pretty solid counters to your argument.It has been confirmed otherwise, in the power's documentation. Read the tooltip. They may change their minds about this implementation, but doing what the documentation says is proof that something is not a bug.
Ok, let me let you into some info I remember about CoS.
1- It started out as a Offensive/Hybrid Passive which buffed all DoT ( and was bugged to work in all roles)
2- This was thankfully changed to Support/Hybrid Passive which buffed EGO DoT (and no longer worked in all roles, only intended roles) <--WIN
3- Against the removal of Telepathy Update Powers on the PTS, Mentella still had the passive and the powers, and guess what? Congress of Selves DID NOT work in anything other than the two stated passive slots
4-There were changes and minor fixes to the Telepathy Update Powers
Nine months down the line, we are presented with the old version of CoS which worked in every role and everyone is saying this is right.
I'm not sure what roles people are getting their numbers from, but if CoS is being used in Offensive/Tank Roles then it won't necessarily show the "intended" numbers/values when the passive is a support passive (in a similar vein to Seraphim Passive).
If the tooltip showed me that Mind Break does 10k on tap...would that be considered a bug or an intended and "not to be reported as a bug" casual thing?
Clearly the answer is no, if Mind Break's tooltip was saying 10k on tap, that would be wrong on every level and would no doubt at the very least be questioned if not torn apart at how OP it would be.
The patch notes said nothing about CoS being a "Hybrid" Passive, a few days before the update was relaunched, I was running around on PTS with Congress of Selves from nine months ago, and it was Support/Hybrid Passive..so clearly this was an oversight.
Either way, I'd be surprised if they allowed CoS to remain this "Hybrid" Passive and not revert it to what it was meant to be. Oh well, until we get new patch notes this arguing is quite pointless.
They had to specifically introduce a new mechanic and insert documentation for it in order to produce this effect. They may change their minds, but actively doing something, documenting that you are doing it, and then putting that thing up for testing and asking for feedback on it are all pretty solid counters to your argument.
This has already been put forth and resolved. Ego Form will continue to provide an Offensive/Hybrid role passive (that also boosts ego DoT).
But if you want the stealth and penetration you must be in Support/Hybrid Role.
Your argument that using the bugged versions of the powers from September 6th is extremely counterproductive.
Can I also assume you want all the other bugs with these powers to go live as is because the documentation says it's working as intended?
It started as an Offensive/Hybrid Passive but G-Crush intentionally let it be used in Support Role. He confirmed this after I reported the bug on August 8:
Bug:
Congress of Selves works in Support Role.
When the PTS next came around (after Cape Flight's interruptions) the passive was decidedly put in Support role and given "Trauma" as an advantage.
This has already been put forth and resolved. Ego Form will continue to provide an Offensive/Hybrid role passive (that also boosts ego DoT).
But if you want the stealth and penetration you must be in Support/Hybrid Role.
Unless you're on the development team, it's just speculation as to whether it's an intended feature or or bug. You have your opinion (repeated ad nauseum), others have theirs. Surely, there are more productive or interesting things for testers to discuss than to keep going in circles on this.
However, I did see this quote from G_Crush in the historical thread you linked:
"1. Yes, this is a more aggressive focused half of Telepathy. I want to do a support passive, but I believe the most prudent time to do that is when the classic forms of CC can receive a full review as well, and that is a big time investment." http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2382361&postcount=44
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Working as intended does not mean it's balanced or a good idea.
Congress of Selves was intentionally made a hybrid passive. Redirected Force intentionally has the damage and resist bonuses in their own layers in order to bypass DR. Those answers came from Crush, whether you believe me or not is up to you.
Unless you're on the development team, it's just speculation as to whether it's an intended feature or or bug. You have your opinion (repeated ad nauseum), others have theirs. Surely, there are more productive or interesting things for testers to discuss than to keep going in circles on this.
However, I did see this quote from G_Crush in the historical thread you linked:
"1. Yes, this is a more aggressive focused half of Telepathy. I want to do a support passive, but I believe the most prudent time to do that is when the classic forms of CC can receive a full review as well, and that is a big time investment." http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2382361&postcount=44
The moment when you look back through the Telepathy Update notes and see CoS was changed to Support/Hybrid Passive....lol.
Surely, there are more productive or interesting things for testers to discuss than to keep going in circles on this.
What is unproductive is going back to re-review design questions that have already been resolved.
It is not an opinion. It is history.
It is a much simpler matter of the devs not putting the right version of PTS powers back up and editing from the wrong point
It is not a feature. It goes directly against the rules of combat for the game. Next people will be asking that PFF work in Support role because it uses the +Heal Mechanic. Then comes "I want lightning reflexes in offensive role"..
I'm in awe to the players of CO. Its like all of the rational people who want a fair and balanced game have quit already, and all that's left are the people who enjoy the exploits and continue to beg for more. This game needs a standard and needs to hold FIRM to that standard.
While I'm at it:
BUG
Players can equip multiple versions of the same device. EX: Using 5 Eruption Devices. Surely this is not as intended.
and
BUG
Players can reach unmitigated multiplicative DPS for no energy cost by using pets, especially and specifically Device Pets that are not powers.
However, I did see this quote from G_Crush in the historical thread you linked:
"1. Yes, this is a more aggressive focused half of Telepathy. I want to do a support passive, but I believe the most prudent time to do that is when the classic forms of CC can receive a full review as well, and that is a big time investment." http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2382361&postcount=44
This is also very old news. I very much KNOW that there needs to be a comprehensive hold review. To me it is obvious that this is a larger project (one that could take.. say.. 9 months?) to update all the NPC's holds and hold resistance.. then to do the same to players.
The system is still COMPLETELY not working. But I think history has proven that even with good intentions, the work did not get done. Thus CoS was made a support passive to keep from the redundancy of Ego Form.
Working as intended does not mean it's balanced or a good idea.
Congress of Selves was intentionally made a hybrid passive. Redirected Force intentionally has the damage and resist bonuses in their own layers in order to bypass DR. Those answers came from Crush, whether you believe me or not is up to you.
I doubt Gentleman Crush remembers his own design decisions for CO that he made 9 months ago. You know.. he's created an entire combat system for another game since then. But i DO remember and hold to my position that this (along with MANY other design flaws in this PTS patch) is much more the product of mistaken powers.
I sincerely doubt that the DoTs are meant to break sleep
I sincerely doubt that confused targets are meant to be healed
I sincerely doubt MANY of the bugs in this build (revised from September that were not there in November) are meant to exist.
Crush DID intentionally make this a Hybrid passive in September but came to his senses once. I must trust that he will again.
- -
It is entirely possible that Lordgar did not know about the Telepathy build changes as well. I say this because since his arrival in December there were NO telepathy updates.
Documentation is a large part of programming and Crypric Studios has a high turnover rate. Because Champions Online suffers a very large lack of communication and documentation, the developers will be depending on players to know what they cannot.
I have actual documented notes on all of the telepathy changes. Each One. All of them noted, many that were NOT noted. I am the last brainbender.. the last of a race long considered dead. So forgive me if I don't trust when your supposition goes against historical fact. Specifically when you're using history I lived that you've only read about
No. No one (that I have seen) is saying that this is right. In fact, if you read some of the posts commenting on the matter, you will see that members of this, "everyone," you seem to be speaking of consider it to be the opposite of, "right."
Just because something is a bad idea, or bad implementation, or unbalanced, or whatever bad thing you can think of in a computer game doesn't mean that it is a bug.
For the power Redirected Force (Force Field/Force Barrier rename pls!!!!)I was thinking of a Dome shape graphic like this? Of course it would be bigger than what I was able to capture but something along those lines rather than Super Nimbus of Force.
Sorry if the picture is a bit massive
I really support this, I have been hoping they would make a area force field like that since launch.. this new power could definitely use something like this!
I have actual documented notes on all of the telepathy changes. Each One. All of them noted, many that were NOT noted. I am the last brainbender.. the last of a race long considered dead. So forgive me if I don't trust when your supposition goes against historical fact. Specifically when you're using history I lived that you've only read about
It's not a supposition, it's something that has been heard first-hand. Whether he "comes to his senses" or not is something entirely different, but as it stands right now, being used in any role is intended, and confirmed like, yesterday.
If I remember correctly, he still wants to see if it breaks anything in a catastrophic fashion.
Comments
As to the significance of the heal...personally Mentella's has been reduced from 140 hps to around...42hps so roughly reduced (in my case) by 100hps. Then again...I haven't checked for discrepancy between her old gear and her current one (namely full Heroics R6 vs Full Legions R7-9).
You may also note that, applying confuse to targets who are affected by Dependancy CONFUSES the heal mechanic so it heals the enemy LOL
And oh yes, Mind Break does fully heal, damage and energize caster on detonation.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Sorry if the picture is a bit massive
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
While I disagree with the mechanics Raven proposed, having Redirected force use this animation is SO much preferred to any more Single Bubbles.
Specifically because the singular bubbles tend to give the impression that they are shielding HP like all the other bubbles that size (Protection Field, Mindful Reinforcement, and PRE Mastery and that device from Nimbus of Bloodmoon).
If you don't feel comfortable with the large bubble how about a pillar/circle that uses the "distortion" effect from Crushing Wave and Distortion Acrobatics?
I'm actually fine with the current mechanics, the post just came as a massive package..the highlight being the animation..using THAT AoE animation + Maintain = pure WIN.
It would be a failure to not incorporate that type of graphic. Why? Because its already in game as Alert "holding cells" on Vehicles as a form of Containment field as well as a self shield.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Then do the same thing as they can currently do with Alert Bubbles...I cant imagine why they'd have a giant AoE shield then place tiny bubbles on all inside...seems a little dumb to me...
If someone is super-huge... then just allow (as long as they are in range) an icon on them.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Wrong.
The tooltip states Congress of Selves is a "Hybrid Passive". It's meant to be used in any role.
It is obvious that these powers are the original 9/5/12 versions of the powers for the most part. The changes appropriated the Congress of Selves passive to be SUPPORT because of the overlap it once had with Ego Form.
Putting it in offensive form was deemed too out of balance for the other DoT powers from both Darkness and Infernal frameworks.
It needs to be re-updated for the exact same reasons.
- -
The tooltip on MANY of the powers are not quite correct. Opening a "Anything Goes" passive is game balance suicide and sets a horribad precedent
I don't think this is a case of tooltip error since the devs had to make a new classification of passive.
I agree it sets a bad precedent though. It's not even that much of a "hybrid" passive to begin with. Congress of Selves is more like a mistyped offensive energy form passive.
No, they specifically made it an all-role passive.
You'll recall that there are fans of Telepathy that wanted a DoT-centric offensive passive.
Instead of making two separate passives, they made one and fiddled with the code to make it unrestricted.
While it sets a precedent that may be troublesome in the future and removes a CC-focused support passive from the realm of immediate possibility, it's not technically a bug.
Just because you don't like the way something's implemented doesn't necessarily mean it's a bug.
Remember, not everyone shares all of yours' and Jaybezz' views on how the direction of the game should go.
You two are just the loudest.
Someone asked Crush about this at one point. The Alert Bubbles (and duel bubbles) are handled differently from power graphics, and aren't readily usable. Doesn't mean they can't make a giant bubble graphic, but the Alert/Duel bubbles were confirmed to not be a usable source for the graphic.
I think it depends on if they can steal Splosions away from his NW duties for long enough to get new graphics created/hooked up.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
The worst possible combinations you're going to run into are tanky passives in the Offensive Roles, and that's already sort of a thing with the existence of Quarry/Night Warrior/Way of the Warrior.
You go from "20% multiplicative damage boost and practically unkillable" to "20% multiplicative damage boost and actually unkillable". Which will mostly kill build variety.
That's the main thing you have to watch out for, really.
AoPM in offensive role could be dealt with by changing the scaling (kind of like how it does now between Hybrid and support)but it still might be problematic. Though I fear that less than some other options I can think of.
No one's going to willingly choose to use any of the energy form passives outside of Offense/Hybrid roles, unless they're doing it for theme. They're too weak to warrant using.
Quarry/WotW/NW? Yeah, I can see those being popular, but that basically means you're opening them up to Tank role (not a big deal) and Support role (unkillable healers, but no one PvPs anymore so lol at that).
I don't see many other problems besides those, assuming they got a wild notion and made all the passives unrestricted (which I don't think they'll do).
If they do this with only certain passives, I'd suggest:
*Personal Force Field - This would allow it to be used with Support and Offensive roles. It works better as shielding for an alpha strike than as a real tank passive, at least without building around it. Can't think of a reason to use it in Support other than being reaaalllly paranoid about aggro.
*Regeneration - Should be obvious, really. Regen on melee damage dealer, etc.
*Aura of Arcane Clarity - The lulz. All of them.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
More proof they are using the non-updated version of the powers. This too was fixed come November's push
You may recall CoS being listed as a Offensive/Hybrid passive at first, thank god it was changed to Hybrid/Support. Correct me if I am wrong but I didnt see anything in the patch notes which suggested this was meant to be case. If its not in the patch notes, then for all intents and purposes, it is a bug until proven otherwise by a Developer.
There are alot of things in CO I am not fond of but I dont scream bug, this is clearly a bug. You honestly think they would allow a all round passive? And not expect to do more work to bring other passives into that sort of fashion? And then when everyone starts crying NERF because AoPM + Ranged/Melee Role style builds start pouring out...they'll have a lovely mess on their hands.
Regardless, Jaybezz and I may be "the loudest" but look where it got us? Telepathy Update is FINALLY here after months of crying and shouting all over the forums, when others were telling us to shut up or give up. Back to the main point though. It is a bug in my book, at least until it is confirmed otherwise.
That someone was likely me, I've been wanting AoE Shielding for goodness knows how long. I was refering to the duel/alert bubble size not the actual graphic. As far as I am concerned the graphic is horrific, for the force powerset (if it used an Alert Bubble Style graphic), maybe it could be a skin for tech themed builds?
I hope they are able to, I'd hate for it to go live with "look at me I am a glorified Nimbus of Force effect"
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
PFF: Would be a massive fan of PFF in support role, although it would have to provide some sort of shielding bonus to affected parties, to make it fill the role of a support passive. Not so hot on the Offensive Role version..but I guess it could work. I've actually wanted to use PFF in the Support Role for a while, but then again, PFF is fine the way it is role wise.
All passives being able to work in all roles...would cause issues and at the same time allow for greater flexibility.
As it stands I believe I would be right to say that Balance issues in CO are high enough without doing this to passives.
Anyway yeah..on Thursday..provided we dont get another patch..I'll do some MOAR testing..currently celebrating the end of exams
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
No, it was in-game.
And you aren't the only one that's been asking for AoE shielding.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
Was it during the live stream event in the PH? If so then yeah..I was there..I asked..
I didnt say I was the ONLY one asking for it/wanting it...I'm glad that its in, once it all worked out and the graphic is altered it will be an awesome supporting power.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
The confuse = heal to enemies was also fixed..but its now a bugged effect...lets just hope this update actually updates and doesn't fall into ANOTHER 9 month wait >_>
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Interrupting a player resets ALL of their cooldowns to 1 second. Allowing their longer cooldowns (Actives) to be spammed.
BUG
DoT Penetration does not seem to work PvP against players with invulnerable.. which has generally not been the case with other penetration IIRC. After much maths I found that the DPS done by the Telepathy DoT powers are very very low and thus were just not powerful enough (on my build) to break the threshold. Other builds will likely have more success.
BUG
Players can still Dodge DoTs. I don't think this is intended anymore
BUG
"Double Agent" is still bugged in the UNTIL building. He/They are west of the Until Requisitions Officer and really bothering me.
Hmm.. I thought this could be due to the Levels of the enemies I was facing so I went down to a lvl 26 dude named Grond.
He was also immune to interruption.
If they got another $15 bucks from me by pulling out the carrot I may scream
Penetration is against damage resistance (like Defense, Defiance, the resist portion of Invuln, Regen's resistance buff, etc), not flat damage reduction (like Invuln's flat reduction portion, IDF, Unstoppable). They'll probably need to tweak Congress of Selves if they don't want the DoT buffing to be useless against flat reduction.
Most of the other resistance-penetration powers (like Dragon's Wrath, Two-Gun Mojo, melee attacks used with Night Warrior, etc) have a high-enough base power to not lose that much to the 100-150 or so points of flat reduction you can get on Invuln.
The Telepathy DoTs, unfortunately, do not.
So far as I know, there's no mechanic at the moment that gets through flat damage reduction, other than "use a big-enough spike so that the 150 or so damage you lose is just a drop in the bucket". It's kind of like trying to hit through Dodge.
I think it's mainly an issue because most PvE bosses have Defiance or Lightning Reflexes instead. The main use of Invuln has been in PvP, and we know how quickly they address balance issues there.
Maybe half the speed of the DoT ticks and then double the damage per tick? Put the damage into larger packets, basically.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
No. If it functions as the tooltip suggests it is not a bug. Something that does what its documentation says it is supposed to do is not bugged by definition of the term. A developer does not need to, "prove," that something is not bugged when they have already told you that it is working as intended in the documentation.
They had to specifically introduce a new mechanic and insert documentation for it in order to produce this effect. They may change their minds, but actively doing something, documenting that you are doing it, and then putting that thing up for testing and asking for feedback on it are all pretty solid counters to your argument.
It has been confirmed otherwise, in the power's documentation. Read the tooltip. They may change their minds about this implementation, but doing what the documentation says is proof that something is not a bug.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Ok, let me let you into some info I remember about CoS.
1- It started out as a Offensive/Hybrid Passive which buffed all DoT ( and was bugged to work in all roles)
2- This was thankfully changed to Support/Hybrid Passive which buffed EGO DoT (and no longer worked in all roles, only intended roles) <--WIN
3- Against the removal of Telepathy Update Powers on the PTS, Mentella still had the passive and the powers, and guess what? Congress of Selves DID NOT work in anything other than the two stated passive slots
4-There were changes and minor fixes to the Telepathy Update Powers
Nine months down the line, we are presented with the old version of CoS which worked in every role and everyone is saying this is right.
I'm not sure what roles people are getting their numbers from, but if CoS is being used in Offensive/Tank Roles then it won't necessarily show the "intended" numbers/values when the passive is a support passive (in a similar vein to Seraphim Passive).
If the tooltip showed me that Mind Break does 10k on tap...would that be considered a bug or an intended and "not to be reported as a bug" casual thing?
Clearly the answer is no, if Mind Break's tooltip was saying 10k on tap, that would be wrong on every level and would no doubt at the very least be questioned if not torn apart at how OP it would be.
The patch notes said nothing about CoS being a "Hybrid" Passive, a few days before the update was relaunched, I was running around on PTS with Congress of Selves from nine months ago, and it was Support/Hybrid Passive..so clearly this was an oversight.
Either way, I'd be surprised if they allowed CoS to remain this "Hybrid" Passive and not revert it to what it was meant to be. Oh well, until we get new patch notes this arguing is quite pointless.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
This has already been put forth and resolved. Ego Form will continue to provide an Offensive/Hybrid role passive (that also boosts ego DoT).
But if you want the stealth and penetration you must be in Support/Hybrid Role.
Your argument that using the bugged versions of the powers from September 6th is extremely counterproductive.
Can I also assume you want all the other bugs with these powers to go live as is because the documentation says it's working as intended?
*le sigh*
For Historic Reference
It started as an Offensive/Hybrid Passive but G-Crush intentionally let it be used in Support Role. He confirmed this after I reported the bug on August 8:
When the PTS next came around (after Cape Flight's interruptions) the passive was decidedly put in Support role and given "Trauma" as an advantage.
Unless you're on the development team, it's just speculation as to whether it's an intended feature or or bug. You have your opinion (repeated ad nauseum), others have theirs. Surely, there are more productive or interesting things for testers to discuss than to keep going in circles on this.
However, I did see this quote from G_Crush in the historical thread you linked:
"1. Yes, this is a more aggressive focused half of Telepathy. I want to do a support passive, but I believe the most prudent time to do that is when the classic forms of CC can receive a full review as well, and that is a big time investment."
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2382361&postcount=44
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Congress of Selves was intentionally made a hybrid passive. Redirected Force intentionally has the damage and resist bonuses in their own layers in order to bypass DR. Those answers came from Crush, whether you believe me or not is up to you.
The moment when you look back through the Telepathy Update notes and see CoS was changed to Support/Hybrid Passive....lol.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
What is unproductive is going back to re-review design questions that have already been resolved.
It is not an opinion. It is history.
It is a much simpler matter of the devs not putting the right version of PTS powers back up and editing from the wrong point
It is not a feature. It goes directly against the rules of combat for the game. Next people will be asking that PFF work in Support role because it uses the +Heal Mechanic. Then comes "I want lightning reflexes in offensive role"..
I'm in awe to the players of CO. Its like all of the rational people who want a fair and balanced game have quit already, and all that's left are the people who enjoy the exploits and continue to beg for more. This game needs a standard and needs to hold FIRM to that standard.
While I'm at it:
BUG
Players can equip multiple versions of the same device. EX: Using 5 Eruption Devices. Surely this is not as intended.
and
BUG
Players can reach unmitigated multiplicative DPS for no energy cost by using pets, especially and specifically Device Pets that are not powers.
This is also very old news. I very much KNOW that there needs to be a comprehensive hold review. To me it is obvious that this is a larger project (one that could take.. say.. 9 months?) to update all the NPC's holds and hold resistance.. then to do the same to players.
The system is still COMPLETELY not working. But I think history has proven that even with good intentions, the work did not get done. Thus CoS was made a support passive to keep from the redundancy of Ego Form.
I doubt Gentleman Crush remembers his own design decisions for CO that he made 9 months ago. You know.. he's created an entire combat system for another game since then. But i DO remember and hold to my position that this (along with MANY other design flaws in this PTS patch) is much more the product of mistaken powers.
I sincerely doubt that the DoTs are meant to break sleep
I sincerely doubt that confused targets are meant to be healed
I sincerely doubt MANY of the bugs in this build (revised from September that were not there in November) are meant to exist.
Crush DID intentionally make this a Hybrid passive in September but came to his senses once. I must trust that he will again.
- -
It is entirely possible that Lordgar did not know about the Telepathy build changes as well. I say this because since his arrival in December there were NO telepathy updates.
Documentation is a large part of programming and Crypric Studios has a high turnover rate. Because Champions Online suffers a very large lack of communication and documentation, the developers will be depending on players to know what they cannot.
I have actual documented notes on all of the telepathy changes. Each One. All of them noted, many that were NOT noted. I am the last brainbender.. the last of a race long considered dead. So forgive me if I don't trust when your supposition goes against historical fact. Specifically when you're using history I lived that you've only read about
No. No one (that I have seen) is saying that this is right. In fact, if you read some of the posts commenting on the matter, you will see that members of this, "everyone," you seem to be speaking of consider it to be the opposite of, "right."
Just because something is a bad idea, or bad implementation, or unbalanced, or whatever bad thing you can think of in a computer game doesn't mean that it is a bug.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I really support this, I have been hoping they would make a area force field like that since launch.. this new power could definitely use something like this!
@Quincy-St-Moth's PRIMUS page
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
#DomeShieldsforAoEShieldingNOW ?
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
It's not a supposition, it's something that has been heard first-hand. Whether he "comes to his senses" or not is something entirely different, but as it stands right now, being used in any role is intended, and confirmed like, yesterday.
If I remember correctly, he still wants to see if it breaks anything in a catastrophic fashion.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________