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What is the most important aspect of Free Form, theme or build?
sigmaseven0
Posts: 714 Arc User
Please note, this post does not advocate for any specific change to CO. This thread is about playing with the idea of the FF/AT paradigms boiling down the FF system to its most basic appealing elements.
Lately I have been wondering if it were possible to find a middle ground between the freedom/chaos of the free-form system and the structure/rigidity of the COX AT system. To begin to look deeper at the question, I wanted to get an idea of what part of FF customization is the most essential. To me, the most basic points of appeal of the FF system are:
1. The thematic (visual) freedom, and..
2. The power picking (mechanical) freedom.
My personal priority is thematic customization so i came up with a hypothetical system for a hypothetical Hero MMO that barrows from CO/COX and what little i know about the Champions PNP.
The basic idea would be the you pick an AT that is built around collection of powers, 2ndary effects and power balance (cost, activation time ect). There would be no specific theme or damage type, for an AT and you could then pick the animations/fx for each power.
Ill use a simplified COX AT for an example bout you could do the same with CO ATs:
Charged Bolts: moderate damage ranged attack
Lightning Bolt: high dmg ranged attack
Ball Lightning: PBAOE
Short Circuit: AOE, -endurance/-recovery
Ok, this simplified electric blaster layout will be the base. What if you used the the suggested system to make this a darkness blaster?
Darkness hunter with same AT
Weak blast: darkness fx/animation of my choice/color of my choice/dmg type of my choice (in this case darkness)
Strong blast: strong darkness blast (see above)
PBAOE: darkness AOE (see above)
Energy drain power: Darkness energy drain (see above)
So in this case we now have a ranged darkness toon with the ability to inflict energy drain instead of the fear effect usually associated with darkness. I can have the play style i like and the theme i like at the same time, something COX lacked. If i want to this same build could be Dual Pistols with a end drain gadget or arrows of ice or a mix of any available power themes.
vampire hunter with same AT
Weak blast: cross bow
Strong blast: Shot Gun
PBAOE: magic graphic
Energy drain power: energy drain spell
The same would apply for a ranged/melee hybrid like The Specialist. EX: you could drop the swords and be bare fisted/ elemental melee and replace the gun attacks with ranged elemental attacks but still have the same AT. Keep in mind all of these examples are rough approximations. You could also if you like add build/role switching too if you like.
Any way this is starting to read like a suggestion thread (which it is not). This is more intended as a thought experiment and to give a little context to the question in the tittle of the thread, and a 2nary question:
1. What is the most important aspect of Free Form theme or build?
Would you be willing to give up some power over your build for more power over customizing individual powers?
I know some of you are going to respond like i just asked you to pick between one of your kids, but please try to pick which one has the highest priority in your eyes (or if there is another major indispensable aspect of FF that i am missing pick that)
2. I'm also interested if any one has thoughts on if it is possible to merge AT based and FF based systems into a single undivided whole.
Lately I have been wondering if it were possible to find a middle ground between the freedom/chaos of the free-form system and the structure/rigidity of the COX AT system. To begin to look deeper at the question, I wanted to get an idea of what part of FF customization is the most essential. To me, the most basic points of appeal of the FF system are:
1. The thematic (visual) freedom, and..
2. The power picking (mechanical) freedom.
My personal priority is thematic customization so i came up with a hypothetical system for a hypothetical Hero MMO that barrows from CO/COX and what little i know about the Champions PNP.
The basic idea would be the you pick an AT that is built around collection of powers, 2ndary effects and power balance (cost, activation time ect). There would be no specific theme or damage type, for an AT and you could then pick the animations/fx for each power.
Ill use a simplified COX AT for an example bout you could do the same with CO ATs:
Charged Bolts: moderate damage ranged attack
Lightning Bolt: high dmg ranged attack
Ball Lightning: PBAOE
Short Circuit: AOE, -endurance/-recovery
Ok, this simplified electric blaster layout will be the base. What if you used the the suggested system to make this a darkness blaster?
Darkness hunter with same AT
Weak blast: darkness fx/animation of my choice/color of my choice/dmg type of my choice (in this case darkness)
Strong blast: strong darkness blast (see above)
PBAOE: darkness AOE (see above)
Energy drain power: Darkness energy drain (see above)
So in this case we now have a ranged darkness toon with the ability to inflict energy drain instead of the fear effect usually associated with darkness. I can have the play style i like and the theme i like at the same time, something COX lacked. If i want to this same build could be Dual Pistols with a end drain gadget or arrows of ice or a mix of any available power themes.
vampire hunter with same AT
Weak blast: cross bow
Strong blast: Shot Gun
PBAOE: magic graphic
Energy drain power: energy drain spell
The same would apply for a ranged/melee hybrid like The Specialist. EX: you could drop the swords and be bare fisted/ elemental melee and replace the gun attacks with ranged elemental attacks but still have the same AT. Keep in mind all of these examples are rough approximations. You could also if you like add build/role switching too if you like.
Any way this is starting to read like a suggestion thread (which it is not). This is more intended as a thought experiment and to give a little context to the question in the tittle of the thread, and a 2nary question:
1. What is the most important aspect of Free Form theme or build?
Would you be willing to give up some power over your build for more power over customizing individual powers?
I know some of you are going to respond like i just asked you to pick between one of your kids, but please try to pick which one has the highest priority in your eyes (or if there is another major indispensable aspect of FF that i am missing pick that)
2. I'm also interested if any one has thoughts on if it is possible to merge AT based and FF based systems into a single undivided whole.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Post edited by sigmaseven0 on
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However you choose your effects, you're applying them to a base fighting style. For unarmed melee, for example, you could choose Kung-Fu, MMA, or Brick styles (from fast/light damage to slow/heavy damage), then add whatever effect(s) you liked. In CoH, styles were tied to effects. In the system we're talking about, however, players could mix and match: Electric Kung-Fu or Electric Brick.
And believe it or not, you can tie this to a F2P model. Give free players one effect per toon (like most CO ATs or typical CoH blast/melee sets), or pay to unlock per-power effects (like CO FF or versatile CoH sets like Street Justice or Assault Rifle), or even switchable effects (like CoH Dual Pistols).
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
My preference for the two would be to follow the actual PnP approach a bit more closely.
1) Choose generic baseline powers such as "Blast."
2) Choose visual effect, such as "darkness," or, "fire."
3) Choose advantages that provide such elements as, "lingering DOT," or, "causes fear," or, "increased base damage," or, "AoE type: Cone, Radius, Line, etc."
4) Choose emanation point.
Allow people to construct their powers both visually and for effect. Theme vs Min/Max becomes much less of a divide when theme does not come at the expense of power.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
:cool:
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Theme and build are equally important, since in the majority of cases they are the same thing. The build reflects the theme, or the theme incidentally emerges as a result of the build. Take away build, and theme disappears right along with it. You can't take away theme, since it's not a game mechanic.
Would you be willing to give up some power over your build for more power over customizing individual powers?
No. If I could no longer pick my build, and basically had to pick an archetype and then just reskin the powers, then it just wouldn't be freeform anymore. If that became the case, I would just go play a real class-based game.
2. I'm also interested if any one has thoughts on if it is possible to merge AT based and FF based systems into a single undivided whole.
No, it's not. The moment that you've moved away enough from a freeform system that you could claim a mixed system, you would already have lost what gives a freeform system its appeal. For example the suggestion (that's not a suggestion) that you gave would already be too restrictive, and I'm sure people could give a slew of examples of how it would rob them of their ability to create the character they want to create.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The idea would be to take some of the power building aspects of the classic Freedom Force to MMO.
Let's say you choose a lvl 3 blast. Max amount of damage for this blast is 300 if single target or 200 if you make it an AoE (cone, PbAoE... etc)
You select the primary damage (Here, I agree with sistersilicon... the special elemental powers will already come with an effect) and stuff like smashing, piercing and magic would let you pick a secondary effect IF you ant, but at the cost of lowering the max amount of damage... For example a solid punch with good stun chance would be 150 dmg ma but high stun.
And then you could choose the animation or emanation point on the ranged powers. (Using a gun to fire an ice beam or acid?)
This could also be used to set subscribers (gold) and freebies apart... maybe subscribers could also pick a couple of variation animations (punch, knee and then backhand)
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I don't know how you would balance it, but it sounds good on paper.
Smoochan, how would you feel about something like this in CO?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
On one side, we have the creative people who really want to play as their characters and don't care much about their actual effectivness in battle.
On the other side, we have the people who just want their characters to be powerful, many of which are statisfied with hanging around in Ren Center as a black 'n red mess and doing alerts instead of story missions, as long as they are only able to overpower others in duels.
Roleplayers contra munchkins, if you want so.
Don't get me wrong, I consider neither of them a "wrong" way of playing. CO supports both ways, and that's a good thing.