Hey, they're the ones calling it their F2P game. You disagree, fine, go argue with Blizzard, not me.
Besides, until CO and STO started a new trend, F2P was universally seen as the Mark of Death - it only happened to games that were about to close. So it could be argued that there are no noteworthy games that used to be subscription but have implemented F2P.
More to the point, can you name me a game that has gone F2P from a sub, but let the player keep all their sub-only stuff? (No, what you had that a free player could have doesn't count - you can play your sub characters here, provided that when you were subbed you created toons using Silver ATs. Several of mine fall under that category, in fact.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Hey, they're the ones calling it their F2P game. You disagree, fine, go argue with Blizzard, not me.
Besides, until CO and STO started a new trend, F2P was universally seen as the Mark of Death - it only happened to games that were about to close. So it could be argued that there are no noteworthy games that used to be subscription but have implemented F2P.
More to the point, can you name me a game that has gone F2P from a sub, but let the player keep all their sub-only stuff? (No, what you had that a free player could have doesn't count - you can play your sub characters here, provided that when you were subbed you created toons using Silver ATs. Several of mine fall under that category, in fact.)
I was under the impression that DDO and LoTRO started that trend. CO dev comments at the time of the FFA conversion beta seemed to indicate that they were looking at those games for some degree of insight into the process.
A label does not necessarily make a thing. WoW is not a free to play game in the context of the meaning of that phrase in this industry. It has a trial mode. They can choose to use whatever terminology they like to hype the trial, but marketing speak generally only displays a passing resemblance to reality.
More to the point, can you name me a game that has gone F2P from a sub, but let the player keep all their sub-only stuff? (No, what you had that a free player could have doesn't count - you can play your sub characters here, provided that when you were subbed you created toons using Silver ATs. Several of mine fall under that category, in fact.)
City of Heroes. Depending on how long you had been a subscriber, the transition to F2P was very generous. No archetypes were taken from you....things purchased through the store previous to the transition were not taken from you...basically, yeah. Everything that you had previous to the switch they let you keep.
AO went F2P/Sub in 2004 and actually did very well due to it's billboard advertising to froobs program(Subs could switch it off). This is actually something I mentioned quite a bit on the CO F2P Beta Forums because such a program could have worked fairly well in CO because..well...we do have billboards. The answer I got from devs, however, was the ever popular "We lack the technology," which was odd to me when compairing a 2001 game to a 2009 game. :rolleyes:
Hey, they're the ones calling it their F2P game. You disagree, fine, go argue with Blizzard, not me.[...]
You and I both know the reality, there's no reason to pretend you don't just for the sake of the debate.
If Gordon Ramsey was serving plate fulls of mud and calling it Sloppy Joes, would you call it Sloppy Joes just because it helps your argument that world famous chefs have been known to serve Sloppy Joes?
There can be some ambiguity to the term F2P, but we all know a trial when we see it.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm in Staff Development as a trainer, and one of the programs I train is Medicaid. Since 2006 our county has used an eligibility determination computer application, as has 17 other counties. However we had an issue. Although all 18 counties used the exact same computer application that was updated at the exact same time with the exact same version, we had one specific Medicaid program that would not work. It worked for everyone else but us. I was the sole trainer of this program and it drove me crazy for years. The damn thing even worked in our training environment, but never once worked in production.
Flash forward 7, yes 7, years... Someone, God bless'em, a couple of higher pay grades than myself finally asks what I have been asking for the last 7 years; "Can someone find out exactly WHY it doesn't work?" Hallelujah! That finally got IT involved. The result? Someone had actually turned of the program in production back in 2006... Click, plink, gone. As the application updated around it for years, that little corner stayed in the stone age. "Well let's just turn it back on!" we said. Nope. The code was so old and out of synch that the rest of the application laughed and called it names. There was absolutely zero reindeer game participation...
Cost a completely stupid amount of money to have the developers fix it. It just got turned on this month...
Ok, point?
A few of us remain who remember the dredded Kitchen Sink patch. That patch was actually an attempt to update the core (or tip) code to match the version used in STO. It failed miserably and broke what seemed like everything. Even after the roll back, I'm convinced things remained broken that still haven't been addressed to this day...
I think that's when we lost CO. Rather than work out the problems, Cryptic chose to keep the core code seperate and focus on STO and NW, who run on the more advanced core code. Now CO has been out of the loop for so long, it would cost a mint and a lot of heartache to bring us back to par...
We are SO 2009 *eyerollhairflip*, but sadly, I don't see them investing what it would cost to get us back in the game...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
A few of us remain who remember the dredded Kitchen Sink patch. That patch was actually an attempt to update the core (or tip) code to match the version used in STO. It failed miserably and broke what seemed like everything. Even after the roll back, I'm convinced things remained broken that still haven't been addressed to this day...
I think that's when we lost CO. Rather than work out the problems, Cryptic chose to keep the core code seperate and focus on STO and NW, who run on the more advanced core code. Now CO has been out of the loop for so long, it would cost a mint and a lot of heartache to bring us back to par...
We are SO 2009 *eyerollhairflip*, but sadly, I don't see them investing what it would cost to get us back in the game...
:sad:
Basically:
1) Lousy/nonexistent internal testing , leading to minimal public testing before trying to go live.
In other industries, this is what's know as "Wishful Thinking" (see "Delusions").
2) A hackish, "git 'er done" mentality.
In other industries, this is what's known as "Laziness"
3) Not enough staff/skill/backbone to actually either work through the problems caused and fix stuff. OR to go back after it when the patch had a bit more refinement (see REAL WORK) into it.
In other industries, this is what's known as "Incompetence".
So, basically they tried to insert code chopped (wholesale) from another product, didn't really test it or work it, and then when the fit it the shan, they just folded and stopped trying.
[...] If you follow the historical patterns of Cryptic this lacking we're currently experiencing is likely due to NW being behind schedule(and a bit of a mess IMO) and, very much like with STO's launch, once NW does go live we should get our devs back and see some kind of "We're back!" surge.
(translated)
14. And what a game (STO or CO) do you like most and why?
I am a fan of Champions Online, mainly because I love superheroes, but also because I'm in this game was the Chief Designer of the original. Ability to create your own unique look and a set of super powers gives a lot of room for players and a new system of movement also adds fun.
Recently, I started to work more with Star Trek Online, now playing and testing update "Legacy of Romulus", and it will be great!
I was under the impression that DDO and LoTRO started that trend. CO dev comments at the time of the FFA conversion beta seemed to indicate that they were looking at those games for some degree of insight into the process.
A label does not necessarily make a thing. WoW is not a free to play game in the context of the meaning of that phrase in this industry. It has a trial mode. They can choose to use whatever terminology they like to hype the trial, but marketing speak generally only displays a passing resemblance to reality.
They were.
Age of Conan went F2P before CO as well. A lot of MMO's did.
As for Star Trek Online, sure it is getting an expansion of sorts, but that hasn't stopped Cryptic from putting together "legacy" packs that are mind numbingly expensive for what it gives you. Not to mention the same business model on that game is far more aggressive and "in your face" than what it is here. If that wasn't enough abuse to make you want to wash your hands of that game then the constant BS being put out by it's current lead developer Daniel Stahl sure is, the release of the last season update for Star Trek Online caused a bigger part of the community to turn against him as he was caught flat-out lying about important implementations that ended up completely ruining the game experience.
However with Star Trek in the title, you will always have a steady stream of gullible fanboys to keep the money flowing in.
Temporary events for a temporary event (Champions Online), we'll find out soon enough.
The Legacy Pack isn't as expensive as min numbingly expensive as you make it out to be. With just the ships and one BOff, it's $5 cheaper than if you bought them separately. Add in everything else, and you save around $50. The last season didn't cause a huge uproar. Only the vocal minority were lound about a few mole hills, that were turned into mountains. The new expansion contains some of the best content released to date, and 1000's of people still log in daily.
More to the point, can you name me a game that has gone F2P from a sub, but let the player keep all their sub-only stuff?
How's that to the point?
The point is many other games actually let F2P players unlock much/all the relevant stuff either for free or for one-off payments. To many MMO players, for some reason, their favorite character is very relevant.
Games that did the F2P switch right (Age of Conan being a good example) included all the necessary microtransactions to re-activate one's favorite character (provided it wasn't already a free class).
The braindeads that be at Cryptic decided that for a game where old favorite characters are, by necessity, freeform, the only thing you can unlock is classes. Even when introduced an (overpriced) Silver Freeform slot, they were to damn stupid to have it do the one thing that would actually help sell it, which is give returning players access to their old favorite character.
So Cryptic not only did not do F2P right, they've done it as wrong as possible.
Well, at least one thing where CO sets a record...
It's stuff like this that makes someone look like a fanboy, or at the very least too sheltered to give an informed opinion.
I'm just sorta laughing because of how many threads there are on this topic. Just how many times does one need to say "****'s effed up!" until people get tired of it?
I'm just sorta laughing because of how many threads there are on this topic. Just how many times does one need to say "****'s effed up!" until people get tired of it?
My point being that this has been reiterated to hell and back and there never seems to be any show of progress from either the devs or the players discussing this. We just seem to be stuck in a loop.
My point being that this has been reiterated to hell and back and there never seems to be any show of progress from either the devs or the players discussing this. We just seem to be stuck in a loop.
Well, that's Champions Online in a nutshell, isn't it? Events to sell gambleboxes to fund events to sell gambleboxes to fund events to sell gambleboxes to fund events to sell gambleboxes to fund events to sell gamb[INFINITE LOOP DETECTED. CLOSING PROCESS.]
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Comments
Besides, until CO and STO started a new trend, F2P was universally seen as the Mark of Death - it only happened to games that were about to close. So it could be argued that there are no noteworthy games that used to be subscription but have implemented F2P.
More to the point, can you name me a game that has gone F2P from a sub, but let the player keep all their sub-only stuff? (No, what you had that a free player could have doesn't count - you can play your sub characters here, provided that when you were subbed you created toons using Silver ATs. Several of mine fall under that category, in fact.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I was under the impression that DDO and LoTRO started that trend. CO dev comments at the time of the FFA conversion beta seemed to indicate that they were looking at those games for some degree of insight into the process.
A label does not necessarily make a thing. WoW is not a free to play game in the context of the meaning of that phrase in this industry. It has a trial mode. They can choose to use whatever terminology they like to hype the trial, but marketing speak generally only displays a passing resemblance to reality.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
City of Heroes. Depending on how long you had been a subscriber, the transition to F2P was very generous. No archetypes were taken from you....things purchased through the store previous to the transition were not taken from you...basically, yeah. Everything that you had previous to the switch they let you keep.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
You and I both know the reality, there's no reason to pretend you don't just for the sake of the debate.
If Gordon Ramsey was serving plate fulls of mud and calling it Sloppy Joes, would you call it Sloppy Joes just because it helps your argument that world famous chefs have been known to serve Sloppy Joes?
There can be some ambiguity to the term F2P, but we all know a trial when we see it.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm in Staff Development as a trainer, and one of the programs I train is Medicaid. Since 2006 our county has used an eligibility determination computer application, as has 17 other counties. However we had an issue. Although all 18 counties used the exact same computer application that was updated at the exact same time with the exact same version, we had one specific Medicaid program that would not work. It worked for everyone else but us. I was the sole trainer of this program and it drove me crazy for years. The damn thing even worked in our training environment, but never once worked in production.
Flash forward 7, yes 7, years... Someone, God bless'em, a couple of higher pay grades than myself finally asks what I have been asking for the last 7 years; "Can someone find out exactly WHY it doesn't work?" Hallelujah! That finally got IT involved. The result? Someone had actually turned of the program in production back in 2006... Click, plink, gone. As the application updated around it for years, that little corner stayed in the stone age. "Well let's just turn it back on!" we said. Nope. The code was so old and out of synch that the rest of the application laughed and called it names. There was absolutely zero reindeer game participation...
Cost a completely stupid amount of money to have the developers fix it. It just got turned on this month...
Ok, point?
A few of us remain who remember the dredded Kitchen Sink patch. That patch was actually an attempt to update the core (or tip) code to match the version used in STO. It failed miserably and broke what seemed like everything. Even after the roll back, I'm convinced things remained broken that still haven't been addressed to this day...
I think that's when we lost CO. Rather than work out the problems, Cryptic chose to keep the core code seperate and focus on STO and NW, who run on the more advanced core code. Now CO has been out of the loop for so long, it would cost a mint and a lot of heartache to bring us back to par...
We are SO 2009 *eyerollhairflip*, but sadly, I don't see them investing what it would cost to get us back in the game...
:sad:
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Basically:
1) Lousy/nonexistent internal testing , leading to minimal public testing before trying to go live.
In other industries, this is what's know as "Wishful Thinking" (see "Delusions").
2) A hackish, "git 'er done" mentality.
In other industries, this is what's known as "Laziness"
3) Not enough staff/skill/backbone to actually either work through the problems caused and fix stuff. OR to go back after it when the patch had a bit more refinement (see REAL WORK) into it.
In other industries, this is what's known as "Incompetence".
So, basically they tried to insert code chopped (wholesale) from another product, didn't really test it or work it, and then when the fit it the shan, they just folded and stopped trying.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Well remember Randy Mosiondz?
From a Russian nw page: http://goha-ru.livejournal.com/4358228.html
Part 1: NW-DMFKR9RPL http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?427711-Brunnen-des-Lichts-Teil-1
Part 2: NW-DLBTN8W28 http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?444281-Brunnen-des-Lichts-Teil-2
Icewind Dale campaign Osthafen sehen & sterben (German)
NW-DMC3IOWAE http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?477201-Osthafen-sehen-amp-sterben
They were.
Age of Conan went F2P before CO as well. A lot of MMO's did.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
The Legacy Pack isn't as expensive as min numbingly expensive as you make it out to be. With just the ships and one BOff, it's $5 cheaper than if you bought them separately. Add in everything else, and you save around $50. The last season didn't cause a huge uproar. Only the vocal minority were lound about a few mole hills, that were turned into mountains. The new expansion contains some of the best content released to date, and 1000's of people still log in daily.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
How's that to the point?
The point is many other games actually let F2P players unlock much/all the relevant stuff either for free or for one-off payments. To many MMO players, for some reason, their favorite character is very relevant.
Games that did the F2P switch right (Age of Conan being a good example) included all the necessary microtransactions to re-activate one's favorite character (provided it wasn't already a free class).
The braindeads that be at Cryptic decided that for a game where old favorite characters are, by necessity, freeform, the only thing you can unlock is classes. Even when introduced an (overpriced) Silver Freeform slot, they were to damn stupid to have it do the one thing that would actually help sell it, which is give returning players access to their old favorite character.
So Cryptic not only did not do F2P right, they've done it as wrong as possible.
Well, at least one thing where CO sets a record...
I'm just sorta laughing because of how many threads there are on this topic. Just how many times does one need to say "****'s effed up!" until people get tired of it?
Or someone actually show that they are listening?
guess one of those two
Well, that's Champions Online in a nutshell, isn't it? Events to sell gambleboxes to fund events to sell gambleboxes to fund events to sell gambleboxes to fund events to sell gambleboxes to fund events to sell gamb[INFINITE LOOP DETECTED. CLOSING PROCESS.]
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends