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New AT Idea: The Taskforce

yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
edited April 2013 in Suggestions Box
Alright, folks...@Jeighsun, here with another suggestion. This is my first AT idea, but I have posted a few cool Travel Power ideas, which can be found ->here<-!

So..The working title for this AT is The Taskforce! It's based on the Japanese Tokusatsu heroes Super Sentai (Known as Power Rangers in the US).

The Taskforce:



1: The Taskforce Innate
+10 Constitution
+6 Endurance
+10 Strength
+6 Dexterity
+5 Intelligence
+8 Ego
+5 Presence
+8 Recovery
1: Energy Builder-Vicious Strikes; Reaper's Caress
6: Inexorable Tides; Primary SuperStat-Constitution
8: Defiance
10: Secondary Superstat-Strength
11: Thunderbolt Lunge
14: Form of the Swordsman
15: Secondary Superstat-Dexterity
17: Resurgence/Reconstruction Circuits
21: Parry
25: Reaper's Embrace
30: Sonic Boom Generator/Dragon Uppercut
35: Bionic Shielding
40: "Mechanical Assault" (New Ultimate idea, mechanics below!)

"Mechanical Assault"-You and your teammates form a giant robotic marvel designed
to finish off your enemies once and for all, and unleash a devastating series of strikes!


Mechanical Assault would function a bit like Fury of the Dragon as far as the giant
dragon skin. But, of course, it would be a huge mecha. It would deal four ticks, followed by
a hard-hitting final strike. It would use a combination of HW animations.

Animation Order: [Brute Strike->Skullcrusher->Eruption->Arc of Ruin-> Annihilate]

The first four anims would only be tap length. Annihilate, being the final blow,
would be hold length. Mechanical Assault's damage would scale based on the number of
bleed stacks your opponent has.
As for the actual initiation...I would say it could start off as a rocket-propelled HW lunge, then you would go BOOM like Fury of the Dragon and the giant mecha skin would activate and the combo would roll.

-Advantage: Stay Down!; Your Mechanical Assault's final strike will rupture all bleeds
on the target as if there were double the amount of stacks.

The possible default costume: 8660287079_35921f8253_m.jpg


Open to input, questions, comments, etc!
@Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
Post edited by yinjeigh on

Comments

  • thebuckeyethebuckeye Posts: 814 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    that's awesome bro /signed....
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    That's not an archetype... that's an incomplete freeform build.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    smoochan wrote: »
    That's not an archetype... that's an incomplete freeform build.

    I appreciate your*coughtroll* input!! :)

    Lol, if you're not gonna post anything constructive to help the idea grow, smooch, then keep walkin. I did say it was my first AT idea.

    I mean, I can definitely see how you would think it was an incomplete freeform..With ATs naturally having less moves than a freeform build. And you know..With me following the AT leveling progression.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • bioshrikebioshrike Posts: 5,491 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    You have form of the swordsman but no way of applying bleeds.
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  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    bioshrike wrote: »
    You have form of the swordsman but no way of applying bleeds.

    Reaper's Caress is one of the first moves up there... At Level 1, right next to the Vicious Strikes EB. Here, I'll post it for you, directly from the Powers section.



    REAPER'S CARESS
    Starter
    Reaper's Caress is a rapid series of attacks capable of leaving the enemy with multiple bleeding wounds.

    Click
    + Single target Slashing Damage.
    + The first two attacks have a 15% chance to cause the target to Bleed. Bleed deals Slashing Damage over time.
    + The third attack in succession hits the target twice and causes your target to Bleed.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • nomorereasonnomorereason Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    /signed!
    XD! Sounds sick!
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    What happens without teammates???
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  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    I appreciate your*coughtroll* input!! :)

    Lol, if you're not gonna post anything constructive to help the idea grow, smooch, then keep walkin. I did say it was my first AT idea.

    I mean, I can definitely see how you would think it was an incomplete freeform..With ATs naturally having less moves than a freeform build. And you know..With me following the AT leveling progression.

    I'll spell it out then.

    This doesn't look like an archetype because the power selection is all over the place. Archetypes aren't meant to be mini freeforms. Also they don't have Ultimates. This is an example of someone thinking up an archetype, when they really should just go ahead and buy a freeform slot and build the character for themselves (trust me... you're going to get the character you want much faster if you do it this way...much....much much much faster ).

    Recent trends indicate that new archetypes come out following either the introduction of a new group of powers, or a review of previous powers; they just got done with martial arts, so unlikely that any of the next few new archetypes (if there are any) would be heavily relying on those powersets.

    ps - if you go through life calling anyone who disagrees with you or doesn't like your ideas a troll, you only end up stunting yourself.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    I'll spell it out then.

    This doesn't look like an archetype because the power selection is all over the place. Archetypes aren't meant to be mini freeforms. Also they don't have Ultimates. This is an example of someone thinking up an archetype, when they really should just go ahead and buy a freeform slot and build the character for themselves (trust me... you're going to get the character you want much faster if you do it this way...much....much much much faster ).

    Recent trends indicate that new archetypes come out following either the introduction of a new group of powers, or a review of previous powers; they just got done with martial arts, so unlikely that any of the next few new archetypes (if there are any) would be heavily relying on those powersets.

    ps - if you go through life calling anyone who disagrees with you or doesn't like your ideas a troll, you only end up stunting yourself.

    1... It's a hybrid build. Take a look at other hybrids, they aren't all in the same powerset.
    2... Never said it would get picked up. It's just an idea, after all. Also, the Celestial definitely has an Ultimate. I studied AT structure before building and posting. Also, if you read what the build is based on, you could possibly understand the power selections.

    P.S., Ya got called a troll because instead of giving creative input.. Or suggesting a way to improve it.... You idea bashed. Seems trollish to me.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    And not everyone got called a troll.. Just the person who displayed behaviors that could possibly be taken as trollish.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    P.S., Ya got called a troll because instead of giving creative input.. Or suggesting a way to improve it.... You idea bashed. Seems trollish to me.

    Oh look, another person who can't handle negative input. Okay okay fine, everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    Oh look, another person who can't handle negative input. Okay okay fine, everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

    Oh look, another cynical dream-smasher who gets upset when they're called out for their crappy forum etiquette, then attempts to bandwagon other people into their cause when really, they were just being a bit egotistical and this has nothing to do with everyone else.
    And now, you're just trying to focus on being called what you were acting as. If you aren't a troll..Don't give off a trollish vibe by popping up and slamming suggestions. Simple as that.

    You've been proven wrong when it comes to the AT thing, deal with it and move on, Smoochan. It's like you came on to this post just to say, "No, your idea is crap.", and give no insight whatsoever. And all the things you've pointed out have been either incorrect or just plain irrelevent to the topic. So I'd appreciate it if you'd allow those who would actually like to add something constructive to do so.

    Thank you, enjoy your gaming. Adios. Auf wiedersehen. Aloha.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    What happens without teammates???

    Lol, didn't mean literal teammates. It's just a fun description like the other Ultimates have, to explain the move's basis.

    Though, it would be pretty cool if on activation, you would get four afterimages that would kinda spread back from your toon's body in V formation and different colors, then the giant mecha part would initiate.

    Like this:

    You
    Red Image
    Blue Image
    Green Image
    Pink Image
    KABOOOM

    Giant Mecha appears and owns monsters, the end.

    Or something like that, lol.
    If this move could be weaponized, maybe the colors chosen in the weapons section of the tailor could determine the colors of your "teammates".
    They would be translucent, like Fury of the Dragon, just tinted in the tailor instead of in the Power Hue selection.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ok, questions.
    1. AT's have a set role.
    You said it's a hybrid will its role be hybrid or tank or melee?


    2. Level 40 power?
    as Smoochan rightly pointed out, AT's don't get an Ultimate.

    you also already have 2 powers given to other AT's at level 40.

    Reapers embrace which you have at level 25 is a level 40 power for The Blade

    Dragon uppercut which you have at 30 is the level 40 for The Fist

    3. and I can see why they thought it was a shortened FF build,

    your ultimate in its current order;
    single target damage plus stun,
    AOE target damage plus knock down,
    single target damage plus knockup plus enrage plus bonus damage if disoriented,
    AOE damage only
    single target knock back plus you want extra damage from stacks of bleed.

    Compared to-
    Unleashed rage- AOE damage,knockdown, fear, bonus damage from enraged
    Planar rift- AOE damage plus 1 random debuff
    Implosion engine- AOE damage plus snared
    Energy storm- cone debuff plus single target damage
    MInd link- aoe bounce damage but must be maintained
    Fury of the dragon- damage plus snares



    It's a bit over the top, try swapping out one of the level 40 powers into 40 and replacing the other one
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  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    chaelk wrote: »
    ok, questions.
    1. AT's have a set role.
    You said it's a hybrid will its role be hybrid or tank or melee?


    2. Level 40 power?
    as Smoochan rightly pointed out, AT's don't get an Ultimate.

    you also already have 2 powers given to other AT's at level 40.

    Reapers embrace which you have at level 25 is a level 40 power for The Blade

    Dragon uppercut which you have at 30 is the level 40 for The Fist

    3. and I can see why they thought it was a shortened FF build,

    your ultimate in its current order;
    single target damage plus stun,
    AOE target damage plus knock down,
    single target damage plus knockup plus enrage plus bonus damage if disoriented,
    AOE damage only
    single target knock back plus you want extra damage from stacks of bleed.

    Compared to-
    Unleashed rage- AOE damage,knockdown, fear, bonus damage from enraged
    Planar rift- AOE damage plus 1 random debuff
    Implosion engine- AOE damage plus snared
    Energy storm- cone debuff plus single target damage
    MInd link- aoe bounce damage but must be maintained
    Fury of the dragon- damage plus snares



    It's a bit over the top, try swapping out one of the level 40 powers into 40 and replacing the other one

    1. It's a Hybrid AT, that means it runs in Hybrid. Like Night Avenger, Void, Specialist, Savage, Impulse, and Grimoire.

    2. I'm gonna link you all to The Radiant, which has an Ultimate Power at level 40.
    http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/The_Radiant
    Give that Planar Fracture a click, please.


    The ultimate is using those Heavy Weapon animations only. Not all of their respective types of damage.
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    It would use a combination of HW animations.

    Animation Order: [Brute Strike->Skullcrusher->Eruption->Arc of Ruin-> Annihilate]
    The damage would be Maintain based, dealing crushing. The final hit would be the KB. THink like this. Fury of the Dragon has ticks, but the Dragon does an animation during those ticks that doesn't exactly represent the move it's based on. For instance..When it breathes fire. It isn't actually dealing fire damage. When it swings its head and chomps, it isn't actually biting. The Mecha Ultimate would just use the HW animations (A way to make things easier on the devs). It would only deal five ticks, which is why I made the final move a KB. Way fewer ticks compared to all the other tick-based Ultimates.

    With it being a Hybrid AT..What would be the harm in giving it Reaper's at 25 to Rupture the bleeds it's been laying since level 1? Compared to the plethora of hard-hitting moves The Night Avenger AT has, I think it could work.
    I mean, Stealth...Shadow Strike...Ricochet Throw...That Fighting Claw move I always forget the name of (I wanna say Dragon's Claw). Strafing Run. That's a great example of an AT with moves that wreck. Comparing Night Avenger to other ATs makes no sense, because there's no other AT like it. Which is sort of what I'm trying to shoot for with The Taskforce.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    stealth which is broken by any damage in or out.
    shadow strike- only good in stealth and 30sec cd
    ricochet throw- now that is OP even without stealth


    Fury of the dragon does fire and slashing damage.

    yes you are correct the newest AT which also happens to be a healer has an ultimate, plus 3 other abilites which can be used as weak attacks.
    What other ones do?

    you still have 2 abilites which other AT's only get at 40.
    the basic idea is a good mix, gadgeteer and MA just like the Night avenger.

    It just looks like you are going for as much damage as you can, hmm
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  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    This looks like it is designed to play like a (greatly) suped up Blade-IMO of course.

    I suppose the ultimate power thing is not really a big deal if we take the Radiant into consideration. I also suppose that this should mean that the proposed new Ultimate should be comparable to Planar Fracture (which was not worth spending the activation time using last I checked) in order to be fair to the other ATs (including the Radiant).

    I personally prefer the idea that an AT's level 40 power would be something worth waiting for. Something eagerly anticipated. But, if we are going to use the Radiant as justification for this particular power inclusion, then this AT's level 40 power would need to be a dud.


    I am not sure that the best approach to a new AT is to buff (layered defenses/heals on an AT ?) an existing one.

    Still, I do think that you have done a fine job of demonstrating one of the great strengths of CO's freeform system. The ability to start with a concept and develop a build to match. It does look as if it could be a fun build to play.



    PS:

    For what its worth, it is not trolling to disagree with your ideas. It is not trolling to express disagreement with your ideas. It is no one else's job to improve upon your ideas. If you post an idea for discussion on a public forum you are essentially asking for others' input. That input can, and will, take many forms.

    Your comment that Smoochan's response, "give(s) no insight whatsoever," holds no water as a complaint because

    1) he did provide insight in the form of specific feedback describing his perception of the mechanics of the build.

    2) you make no complaint about another post (for example the very first one after your OP) that provides no insight beyond, "that's awesome bro."

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • rokurocarisrokurocaris Posts: 1,074 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Jeigh, I can see what you are trying to do here. This archetype has "fanboy creation" written all over it. :redface:
    When making a suggestion, it is important to keep your inner fanboy in check and focus on creating something that would make sense rather than just look awesome. I know most tokusatsu heroes run on the "rule of cool", but this is a character build for an online game you're suggesting here, not a concept for a TV show or manga.

    For some constructive critque:
    Unarmed and Single Blade don't work together well enough for a hybrid archetype build. The focus of yours here is split between Dodge, Bleed and Burning Chi. Each of those has their own archetype already. Also, trying to focus on too many mechanics leads to a build that doesn't focus enough on either of them to be effective. That is called a "Spoony Bard" in RPG terms; a character who can do many things, but none good enough. The Specialist AT suffers from that, for example.
    If I were to design a tokusatsu-inspired archetype, I would go for an Unarmed/Laser Weapons hybrid. Of course, there would have to be an actual framework for Laser Weapons first, as Gadgeteering rayguns and Power Armor laser blades are currently not enough to make a working build. (Yes, I know that a dodge tank would be possible, but that's not very Sentai.)
    Also, the robot finisher is pretty unrealistic, from a programmer's point of view. How about a "Plasma Cannon", a Particle damage version of Rocket, instead?
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    Oh look, another cynical dream-smasher who gets upset when they're called out for their crappy forum etiquette, then attempts to bandwagon other people into their cause when really, they were just being a bit egotistical and this has nothing to do with everyone else.
    And now, you're just trying to focus on being called what you were acting as. If you aren't a troll..Don't give off a trollish vibe by popping up and slamming suggestions. Simple as that.

    You've been proven wrong when it comes to the AT thing, deal with it and move on, Smoochan. It's like you came on to this post just to say, "No, your idea is crap.", and give no insight whatsoever. And all the things you've pointed out have been either incorrect or just plain irrelevent to the topic. So I'd appreciate it if you'd allow those who would actually like to add something constructive to do so.

    Thank you, enjoy your gaming. Adios. Auf wiedersehen. Aloha.

    You should try getting defensive when your ideas are critisized, works great for the people on Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited April 2013
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    You've been proven wrong when it comes to the AT thing, deal with it and move on, Smoochan.

    Who proved smoo wrong?
    This AT is bad. I really doubt in its survivability (even considering that AT's are lacking in survivability in general sense) - it tries to be a dodge based tank not unlike the Master, but has strange choices for active defences . Should be built around MD+BCR instead.

    This Ultimate power is also unrealistic, just like powers choice for levels 25 and 40.

    While the radiant AT do have ultimate power, it has it in exchange for Tier 3 power which every other AT gets at 40 - so either Reaper's Embrace or Ultimate power are out of place in this build. Can't have both of them.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Who proved smoo wrong?
    This AT is bad. I really doubt in its survivability (even considering that AT's are lacking in survivability in general sense) - it tries to be a dodge based tank not unlike the Master, but has strange choices for active defences . Should be built around MD+BCR instead.

    This Ultimate power is also unrealistic, just like powers choice for levels 25 and 40.

    While the radiant AT do have ultimate power, it has it in exchange for Tier 3 power which every other AT gets at 40 - so either Reaper's Embrace or Ultimate power are out of place in this build. Can't have both of them.

    The build's not going for dodge tank at all. Also.. How does a Con based build with a Defiance passive sound like it wouldn't survive? The Dex in this build is for crits mainly. The active defense choice scales with Con as well. And it gets more healing due to the hybrid role!! Also.. It's based on a suit that provides extra protection, and has a built-in life support system. Look at the CONCEPT. Plus.. How survivable is the Night Avenger when its stealth is taken with an easy aoe? Or ANY dps AT for that matter.

    Now... As far as what you explained about Reaper's or Ultimate, I guess I can see where you're coming from.
    But as far as it being unrealistic (hoping you understood that the ultimate is only using those HW animations, not their respective types of damage) who needs realism in a superhero mmorpg?? Is flying or superjumping realistic enough?
    Tell you what... Go onto the Pts.. Test this build (like I did, minus the ultimate) then come back and share before condemning it and labeling it when you obviously don't see how it matches the concept.
    I designed the AT in accordance with its inspiration.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    chaelk wrote: »
    stealth which is broken by any damage in or out.
    shadow strike- only good in stealth and 30sec cd
    ricochet throw- now that is OP even without stealth


    Fury of the dragon does fire and slashing damage.

    yes you are correct the newest AT which also happens to be a healer has an ultimate, plus 3 other abilites which can be used as weak attacks.
    What other ones do?

    you still have 2 abilites which other AT's only get at 40.
    the basic idea is a good mix, gadgeteer and MA just like the Night avenger.

    It just looks like you are going for as much damage as you can, hmm
    Stealth can be maintained through Gas Pellets.
    And I've personally run The Radiant geared with ego and dex, and play it as Support DPS purely for test. Those moves can actually hit pretty hard, despite the support role. I can see what you mean about the damage, though. Wasn't really going for as much damage as possible, I was actually trying to spread out my types of damage because of the concept.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited April 2013
    Given it's a theme build, then maybe. After all, AT's aren't supposed to work well solo (with few exceptions). But then I'd give it a PA laser blade instead, making it more techy/gundamish.

    Unrealistic is assumption that devs would go through the burden of making animation for new ultimate power, or an ultimate power in general.

    As ultimate powers are now, they are complete - one for every framework. So this AT would be given rather either Martial Arts or Technology ultimate power. It's unlikely that any new UP will be ever added.

    Not to mention that the Radiant is a really bad example because it's ultimate power is a really weak one and having it instead of T3 power really hurts this archetype.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Jeigh, I can see what you are trying to do here. This archetype has "fanboy creation" written all over it. :redface:
    When making a suggestion, it is important to keep your inner fanboy in check and focus on creating something that would make sense rather than just look awesome. I know most tokusatsu heroes run on the "rule of cool", but this is a character build for an online game you're suggesting here, not a concept for a TV show or manga.

    For some constructive critque:
    Unarmed and Single Blade don't work together well enough for a hybrid archetype build. The focus of yours here is split between Dodge, Bleed and Burning Chi. Each of those has their own archetype already. Also, trying to focus on too many mechanics leads to a build that doesn't focus enough on either of them to be effective. That is called a "Spoony Bard" in RPG terms; a character who can do many things, but none good enough. The Specialist AT suffers from that, for example.
    If I were to design a tokusatsu-inspired archetype, I would go for an Unarmed/Laser Weapons hybrid. Of course, there would have to be an actual framework for Laser Weapons first, as Gadgeteering rayguns and Power Armor laser blades are currently not enough to make a working build. (Yes, I know that a dodge tank would be possible, but that's not very Sentai.)
    Also, the robot finisher is pretty unrealistic, from a programmer's point of view. How about a "Plasma Cannon", a Particle damage version of Rocket, instead?

    I see what you mean, Roku. Really wasn't going for the dodge tank though. While it would dodge some due to dex, the healing isn't based around that. This one would gear a bit like a Behemoth, as far as Con and Str. I think Laser weapons would be a great alternative, but I noticed most Toku swords were actually swords.. So it felt a bit off when I tested it. I love that Plasma Cannon idea. If the robot was too muc for the devs, that'd be a great replacement.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    You should try getting defensive when your ideas are critisized, works great for the people on Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares.

    I will, and I appreciate your spectacularly valuable insight, Smoochan!!
    You're just full of the stuff! I feel honored to be in the presence of a forum suggestion guru such as yourself.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ashensnow wrote: »
    This looks like it is designed to play like a (greatly) suped up Blade-IMO of course.

    I suppose the ultimate power thing is not really a big deal if we take the Radiant into consideration. I also suppose that this should mean that the proposed new Ultimate should be comparable to Planar Fracture (which was not worth spending the activation time using last I checked) in order to be fair to the other ATs (including the Radiant).

    I personally prefer the idea that an AT's level 40 power would be something worth waiting for. Something eagerly anticipated. But, if we are going to use the Radiant as justification for this particular power inclusion, then this AT's level 40 power would need to be a dud.


    I am not sure that the best approach to a new AT is to buff (layered defenses/heals on an AT ?) an existing one.

    Still, I do think that you have done a fine job of demonstrating one of the great strengths of CO's freeform system. The ability to start with a concept and develop a build to match. It does look as if it could be a fun build to play.



    PS:

    For what its worth, it is not trolling to disagree with your ideas. It is not trolling to express disagreement with your ideas. It is no one else's job to improve upon your ideas. If you post an idea for discussion on a public forum you are essentially asking for others' input. That input can, and will, take many forms.

    Your comment that Smoochan's response, "give(s) no insight whatsoever," holds no water as a complaint because

    1) he did provide insight in the form of specific feedback describing his perception of the mechanics of the build.

    2) you make no complaint about another post (for example the very first one after your OP) that provides no insight beyond, "that's awesome bro."
    I completely agree with having a move worth waiting for. Planar felt a bit meh at the end of the Radiant.

    And Ashen.... The thing with Smoochan isn't about him or her disagreeing.
    It's like this... Due to all of us being in the same possibly sinking ship of sorts, I'm not gonna go onto someone's idea and just drop hate, or say it's garbage. If I like it, I'll say so. If it needs tweaking, I will make suggestions. Simply because we're all trying to think of ways to save the game we love, and bring it something new, as opposed to lockboxes r us. Plus... It's someone's brainchild. They're actually trying to bring in fresh content, and aren't continually poking the staff about the same thing. I don't know about you guys, but I'd much rather see a new idea and help sharpen it to perfection, than see another post about bringing The Foundry to CO by a person who didn't read the ask cryptic.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Given it's a theme build, then maybe. After all, AT's aren't supposed to work well solo (with few exceptions). But then I'd give it a PA laser blade instead, making it more techy/gundamish.

    Unrealistic is assumption that devs would go through the burden of making animation for new ultimate power, or an ultimate power in general.

    As ultimate powers are now, they are complete - one for every framework. So this AT would be given rather either Martial Arts or Technology ultimate power. It's unlikely that any new UP will be ever added.

    Not to mention that the Radiant is a really bad example because it's ultimate power is a really weak one and having it instead of T3 power really hurts this archetype.

    I see what you mean about new UPs. That's probably dependant upon us finally getting our Devs back. New powersets in general probably are, in fact. But, that's the beauty of the suggestions box. When/If they do return, there's tons of ideas that've been fine tuned and basically designed for them, in a conceptual outline sense of course. Because I know it takes a lot of time and effort to build things and get them working properly.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • thebuckeyethebuckeye Posts: 814 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    So..The working title for this AT is The Taskforce! It's based on the Japanese Tokusatsu heroes Super Sentai (Known as Power Rangers in the US).

    The Taskforce:



    1: The Taskforce Innate
    +10 Constitution
    +6 Endurance
    +10 Strength
    +6 Dexterity
    +5 Intelligence
    +8 Ego
    +5 Presence
    +8 Recovery
    1: Energy Builder-Vicious Strikes
    1: Reaper's Caress
    6: Thunderbolt Lunge 6: Primary SuperStat-Constitution
    8: Defiance
    10: Secondary Superstat-Strength
    11: Inexorable Tides
    14: Form of the Swordsman
    15: Secondary Superstat-Dexterity
    17: Parry
    21: Resurgence or Bountiful Chi Resurgence
    25: Dragon's Bite
    30: Sonic Boom Generator or Torrent of Arrows
    35: Miniaturization Drive
    40: Annihilate

    "Mechanical Assault" (New Ultimate idea, mechanics below!)

    "Mechanical Assault"-You and your teammates form a giant robotic marvel designed
    to finish off your enemies once and for all, and unleash a devastating series of strikes!


    Mechanical Assault would function a bit like Fury of the Dragon as far as the giant
    dragon skin. But, of course, it would be a huge mecha. It would deal four ticks, followed by
    a hard-hitting final strike. It would use a combination of HW animations.

    Animation Order: [Brute Strike->Skullcrusher->Eruption->Arc of Ruin-> Annihilate]

    The first four anims would only be tap length. Annihilate, being the final blow,
    would be hold length. Mechanical Assault's damage would scale based on the number of
    bleed stacks your opponent has.
    As for the actual initiation...I would say it could start off as a rocket-propelled HW lunge, then you would go BOOM like Fury of the Dragon and the giant mecha skin would activate and the combo would roll.

    -Advantage: Stay Down!; Your Mechanical Assault's final strike will rupture all bleeds
    on the target as if there were double the amount of stacks.


    Open to input, questions, comments, etc!

    my changes are above in Green. I removed Reaper's Embrace because for an AT it is kind of an "Ultimate" Power at least for The Blade. I changed it to Dragon's Bite in order to maintain those stacks of bleed that its building. I swapped Thunderbolt Lunge and Inexorable Tides around in the layout for the sake of convenience and continuity with most of the other ATs that include a lunge. I then changed the Dragon Uppercut with Torrent of Arrows because that power pick should be between two ranged weapons. And they are both the same tier and both have same general activation of tap or charge and are both AoEs.

    As far as the Level 40 power is concerned I went with Annihilate for my revision of your suggestion so that you could make your own mecha strike. And as far as the new Ultimate Power you're suggesting along with it. I think that would fit well with the Power Armor Framework as the UP for that set. And goes along with an Ultimate Power thread I saw here starting from post number 5 there were some ideas for giving each set its own UP.

    Otherwise this is an awesome idea.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    thebuckeye wrote: »
    my changes are above in Green. I removed Reaper's Embrace because for an AT it is kind of an "Ultimate" Power at least for The Blade. I changed it to Dragon's Bite in order to maintain those stacks of bleed that its building. I swapped Thunderbolt Lunge and Inexorable Tides around in the layout for the sake of convenience and continuity with most of the other ATs that include a lunge. I then changed the Dragon Uppercut with Torrent of Arrows because that power pick should be between two ranged weapons. And they are both the same tier and both have same general activation of tap or charge and are both AoEs.

    As far as the Level 40 power is concerned I went with Annihilate for my revision of your suggestion so that you could make your own mecha strike. And as far as the new Ultimate Power you're suggesting along with it. I think that would fit well with the Power Armor Framework as the UP for that set. And goes along with an Ultimate Power thread I saw here starting from post number 5 there were some ideas for giving each set its own UP.

    Otherwise this is an awesome idea.

    Ooohh.. I like. This would get rid of the need for a new Ultimate, due to Miniturization. One could do a keybind and create their own ultimate..Something along the lines of /bind <key> "powerslotexec 1 <slot>$$setactivecostume 0 <slot>$$say <phrase>" Where your costume would be the giant robot, power would be Annihilate. Phrase would be whatever, or you could not have a phrase at all.

    Well done, sir.

    Though there's no way to rupture, wouldn't really miss it with Dragon's Bite's Cull the Weak.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • lestylolestylo Posts: 375 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I don't think Smoochan was trying to troll you. He raised a legitimate point. However, I do like the idea of a super sentai themed AT and think you have some good ideas there. It has a strong connection to vehicles which would add an interesting way of marketing it as well.
    "I tried to look at that page but saw only inane comments."
  • finalslapsfinalslaps Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    Oh look, another cynical dream-smasher who gets upset when they're called out for their crappy forum etiquette, then attempts to bandwagon other people into their cause when really, they were just being a bit egotistical and this has nothing to do with everyone else.
    And now, you're just trying to focus on being called what you were acting as. If you aren't a troll..Don't give off a trollish vibe by popping up and slamming suggestions. Simple as that.

    You've been proven wrong when it comes to the AT thing, deal with it and move on, Smoochan. It's like you came on to this post just to say, "No, your idea is crap.", and give no insight whatsoever. And all the things you've pointed out have been either incorrect or just plain irrelevent to the topic. So I'd appreciate it if you'd allow those who would actually like to add something constructive to do so.

    Thank you, enjoy your gaming. Adios. Auf wiedersehen. Aloha.

    I understand everything you said. People like that do have reasons but they hide their ulterior motives because their reason would sound so superficial and only revolves around their idea of a good concept.

    Smoochan isn't that much of a person far as I've seen but I've seen others act that way.

    And about the idea, it sounds better than the Unleashed (which is an AT I am still against because it's obvious "clone" concept of the Jedi/Sith released right after SWTOR was released). It gives off an Asian superhero vibe so it might fit a criteria. I personally think all superheroes are lame though and archetypes should be made that can run multiple concepts.
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    finalslaps wrote: »
    I personally think all superheroes are lame though

    Honest question here (no attempt at flaming or anything):

    Why play a game about superheroes if the above quote is true ?

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The Taskforce: V.2



    1: The Taskforce Innate
    +10 Constitution
    +6 Endurance
    +10 Strength
    +6 Dexterity
    +5 Intelligence
    +8 Ego
    +5 Presence
    +8 Recovery
    1: Energy Builder-Vicious Strikes; Reaper's Caress
    6: Inexorable Tides; Primary SuperStat-Constitution
    8: Defiance
    10: Secondary Superstat-Strength
    11: Thunderbolt Lunge
    14: Form of the Swordsman
    15: Secondary Superstat-Dexterity
    17: Resurgence/Reconstruction Circuits
    21: Parry
    25: Dragon's Bite
    30: Sonic Boom Generator/Pulse Beam Rifle
    35: Miniaturization Drive
    40: "Mechanical Assault" If possible. If not, Annihilate
    [/QUOTE]

    This update takes on some suggestions, to help balance out the build. Some of you said it was too damage-heavy by having Reaper's Embrace and Dragon's Uppercut, so the uppercut has been replaced with another ranged alternative. Pulse Beam Rifle.

    Annihilate and Miniaturization Drive have been added because as The Buckeye pointed out..If the ultimate can't be done, we could create our own using Keybinds.

    I'm also considering changing out the Dex Secondary for Ego, and replacing Inexorable Tides with another Blaster move. Thoughts?
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    FYI, Reconstruction Circuits, as a power armor slot power, prevents you from using any other power that isn't a power armor slot power, while it is in effect.


    Also, you're still drawing from too many powersets... if anything it seems like you're drawing from even more now than you were when you started. Archetypes are not meant to be a substitute for the versatility of freeform characters, so you're going to have to let go of that idea at some point.

    Or just, you know, go ahead and get that freeform slot and build this character for yourself. Trust me, it's the fastest way you'll get to play it.... hell, probably the only way you'll get to play it if you can't let go of the majority of the powers you want.

    Personally, I would cut out all the martial arts attacks and replace then with Heavy Weapons attacks, and try to make this a fusion of Heavy Weapons and Gadgeteering.

    So basically
    vicious strikes -> Bludgeon
    Inexorable Tides -> Brute Strike
    Reapers caress -> Cleave
    Thunderbolt Lunge -> Decimate
    Form of the Swordsman -> Enrage ( think about the growth advantage )
    Parry -> Guard
    Dragon's Bite -> Skullcrusher, Skewer, or Arc of Ruin

    Think of the combination of the growth from Miniaturization Drive and Enrage... I'm sure I've seen giant things somewhere in those power rangers shows :wink:

    Instead of Reconstruction Circtuits/Resurgance, try Support Drones/Aggressor as a choice point. Keeps it in the powersets, and lets the player pick between heals or offence, rather than just picking between two heals.

    Pulse Beam Rifle seems an odd fit with the rest of the set... maybe consider a crowd control like tanglecoil launcher or entangling mesh instead, melee types like being able to hold targets in place.

    And yes, I realize this basically turns this into a Devastator with some Gadgeteering powers, but it's inevitable that your theme would overlap with another archetype once you start building it realistically, since all the melee powersets already have archetypes for them. That's really your biggest hurdle here.=


    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    smoochan wrote: »
    FYI, Reconstruction Circuits, as a power armor slot power, prevents you from using any other power that isn't a power armor slot power, while it is in effect.


    Also, you're still drawing from too many powersets... if anything it seems like you're drawing from even more now than you were when you started. Archetypes are not meant to be a substitute for the versatility of freeform characters, so you're going to have to let go of that idea at some point.

    Or just, you know, go ahead and get that freeform slot and build this character for yourself. Trust me, it's the fastest way you'll get to play it.... hell, probably the only way you'll get to play it if you can't let go of the majority of the powers you want.

    Personally, I would cut out all the martial arts attacks and replace then with Heavy Weapons attacks, and try to make this a fusion of Heavy Weapons and Gadgeteering.

    So basically
    vicious strikes -> Bludgeon
    Inexorable Tides -> Brute Strike
    Reapers caress -> Cleave
    Thunderbolt Lunge -> Decimate
    Form of the Swordsman -> Enrage ( think about the growth advantage )
    Parry -> Guard
    Dragon's Bite -> Skullcrusher, Skewer, or Arc of Ruin

    Think of the combination of the growth from Miniaturization Drive and Enrage... I'm sure I've seen giant things somewhere in those power rangers shows :wink:

    Instead of Reconstruction Circtuits/Resurgance, try Support Drones/Aggressor as a choice point. Keeps it in the powersets, and lets the player pick between heals or offence, rather than just picking between two heals.

    Pulse Beam Rifle seems an odd fit with the rest of the set... maybe consider a crowd control like tanglecoil launcher or entangling mesh instead, melee types like being able to hold targets in place.

    And yes, I realize this basically turns this into a Devastator with some Gadgeteering powers, but it's inevitable that your theme would overlap with another archetype once you start building it realistically, since all the melee powersets already have archetypes for them. That's really your biggest hurdle here.=


    I know how Reconstruction works. That's how the suits are, they have to stop and catch their second wind...And I don't need an FF slot because I'm a subscriber, lol.

    I'm drawing from multiple sets because of the theme of Super Sentai. if you don't know what Super Sentai is, maybe google so you'll understand the choices? Because with it being a themed AT, Going from MA to full HW would make the theme pointless. Only added Annihilate in the event that my Ultimate Power wasn't doable for the devs. Get it?

    Would you take the Batman-inspired Night Avenger and remove all of the boomerang moves jut to stay in the Fighting Claw/MA power pool?

    That'd be like taking Parry out of The Savage AT, simply because Parry is from the MA powerset.
    Plus..The Glacier!! PA Passive and Active Defense. Tech Pool Form with Concentration.The Marksman has Retaliation as its block, as does The Soldier.

    I get what you're saying about Enrage and Mini Drive, but that would require me getting the Growth ADV, and it throws the concept off. They only go big in the Mecha.

    PBR fits in because the teams pretty much have a sword and blaster without fail.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    I know how Reconstruction works. That's how the suits are, they have to stop and catch their second wind...And I don't need an FF slot because I'm a subscriber, lol.

    Then it's time to move on. Not sure why you're bothering trying to pass this as an archetype.

    side note: the nighthawk AT only draws from 2 power sets, gadgeteering and martial arts.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    Then it's time to move on. Not sure why you're bothering trying to pass this as an archetype.

    side note: the nighthawk AT only draws from 2 power sets, gadgeteering and martial arts.

    Lol, I'm not sure why I'm surprised that you don't understand it.
    Not everyone is a subber. Not everyone can afford an FF slot.

    This is for people like that, who would like this mix but can't freeform. And I added an Ultimate that we FF players can enjoy.
    And regardless..NA's still drawing from multiple sets. What's the harm in an AT pulling from multiple sets? Like most of them do? They pull as it fits the concept, as I did with The Taskforce.
    I have a bunch of silvers in the SG I run who would LOVE an AT like this.

    But, hey, feel free to take your own advice. It's obviously not something you're into or understand, so move on.

    Or better yet, show us your creativity. I've seen you poke at others' ideas, but have yet to see you give us one of your own. For instance..The Paragon AT posted by Meedacthunist, which is actually a good idea. We'd have fewer Cut n Dry Behemoths, would see some variety in AT tanks.

    How about it, Smoochan? I'm interested to see how utterly perfect your ideas must be.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    Lol, I'm not sure why I'm surprised that you don't understand it.
    Not everyone is a subber. Not everyone can afford an FF slot.

    This is for people like that, who would like this mix but can't freeform. And I added an Ultimate that we FF players can enjoy.

    One, you can get freeform slots for free...so really, there isn't anyone who can't afford a freeform slot, just people who don't want to put in the effort of playing a video game to get one. Two, if this archetype came out, I can guarantee you it wouldn't be free, so you wouldn't actually be creating something that people could enjoy for free anyway. Hell, with the way things have been going, it would probably end up in a Taskforce Lockbox with a low drop rate.
    yinjeigh wrote: »

    Or better yet, show us your creativity. I've seen you poke at others' ideas, but have yet to see you give us one of your own. For instance..The Paragon AT posted by Meedacthunist, which is actually a good idea. We'd have fewer Cut n Dry Behemoths, would see some variety in AT tanks.

    How about it, Smoochan? I'm interested to see how utterly perfect your ideas must be.

    I've done this more times than I can count. I would come into this suggestions forum and post essays on ideas for new powers, changes to old powers, game mechanics....etc. I guess you just haven't been here long enough, or haven't visited the suggestions forum frequently enough, to encounter one of my many attempts to contribute. After a while, the rose colored glasses fall off and reality sinks in. Some people agreed with my ideas, some of them critisized; but for sure, I never called anyone a troll for critisizing my ideas, and in fact I paid a lot more attention to what they had to say than someone who would respond with "cool idea bro!".

    One thing I always understood is what Archetypes are; they're powersets with a fancy name tagged on. They're an introduction to the powers, and they're purposely limited in their scope to make players desire the freedom of the free form system. They are not meant to provide everybody with their dream character for free; that is, in fact, the purpose of the freeform system.

    You want a behemoth that's not like other behemoths? Freeform. You want some variety in your tanks? Freeform. You have an idea for a character that follows the theme of <insert thing here>? Freeform.

    You want something very basic and one dimensional that follows an extremely non-specific idea and leaves you wanting more freedom in creating your own theme? Archetypes.

    You're not putting in an order at the local dollmaker for them to make your own special doll with all the exact little details that you want. You're being given a lame, plain teddy bear, so that you'll be motivated to come in and pay to use the build-a-bear workshop.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • yinjeighyinjeigh Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    One, you can get freeform slots for free...so really, there isn't anyone who can't afford a freeform slot, just people who don't want to put in the effort of playing a video game to get one. Two, if this archetype came out, I can guarantee you it wouldn't be free, so you wouldn't actually be creating something that people could enjoy for free anyway. Hell, with the way things have been going, it would probably end up in a Taskforce Lockbox with a low drop rate.



    I've done this more times than I can count. I would come into this suggestions forum and post essays on ideas for new powers, changes to old powers, game mechanics....etc. I guess you just haven't been here long enough, or haven't visited the suggestions forum frequently enough, to encounter one of my many attempts to contribute. After a while, the rose colored glasses fall off and reality sinks in. Some people agreed with my ideas, some of them critisized; but for sure, I never called anyone a troll for critisizing my ideas, and in fact I paid a lot more attention to what they had to say than someone who would respond with "cool idea bro!".

    One thing I always understood is what Archetypes are; they're powersets with a fancy name tagged on. They're an introduction to the powers, and they're purposely limited in their scope to make players desire the freedom of the free form system. They are not meant to provide everybody with their dream character for free; that is, in fact, the purpose of the freeform system.

    You want a behemoth that's not like other behemoths? Freeform. You want some variety in your tanks? Freeform. You have an idea for a character that follows the theme of <insert thing here>? Freeform.

    You want something very basic and one dimensional that follows an extremely non-specific idea and leaves you wanting more freedom in creating your own theme? Archetypes.

    You're not putting in an order at the local dollmaker for them to make your own special doll with all the exact little details that you want. You're being given a lame, plain teddy bear, so that you'll be motivated to come in and pay to use the build-a-bear workshop.

    Idk about you, but I definitely don't have the free time to farm the amount of Q it would take to get a freeform slot.

    If it weren't free, it'd run about $11.50 for unlimited use, which is less than a monthly sub for FF.
    I've actually been around for awhile now, since early 2011.
    Also.. I apologize for calling you a troll, but that's the way your first post came across. It didn't seem like criticism, more of a "Your idea isn't what you say your idea is, bye now." sort of thing.
    And I have paid attention to what everyone's said. In fact, I answer every post. And there's nothing wrong with expressing how much you like an idea. The "cool idea" person may find that it suits their tastes just the way it is, and have nothing else to add at the moment.
    At the same time...There's nothing wrong with someone disagreeing. However, there should be a reason explained along with it, and the reason(s) should be correct. Or test the idea for yourself if possible.

    As for the whole "Freeforms are a teaser" thing..You're right in a sense. But with the way the game's running right now, I think they would give us a free AT just to shut us up, or try to pull subbers back in. Folks are tired of low-chance boxes being the only way to get things, and I've seen quite a few people cancelling subs until we get some real feedback.
    @Jeighsun in-game. Feel free to add me!
  • finalslapsfinalslaps Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ashensnow wrote: »
    Honest question here (no attempt at flaming or anything):

    Why play a game about superheroes if the above quote is true ?

    I don't play this for superheroes, I play for the gameplay.
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    finalslaps wrote: »
    I don't play this for superheroes, I play for the gameplay.

    iminabucket.jpg

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • prootwaddleprootwaddle Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    yinjeigh wrote: »
    But with the way the game's running right now, I think they would give us a free AT just to shut us up, or try to pull subbers back in. Folks are tired of low-chance boxes being the only way to get things, and I've seen quite a few people cancelling subs until we get some real feedback.

    Essentially with Champions Online you have to be pragmatic.

    The game is still here, which is a better situation than CoX, but you can't realistically expect any improvements - the whole game is effectively "as is" and you either take it or leave it.

    Earning Questionite to get the vital few things you want from the Zen store is simple, if you are able to work out both what you want and how to use the Questionite Exchange interface.

    Demanding things simply does not work; if you are unhappy find something else to do.

    Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.

    A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
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