Attacks to give Trauma to so Ebon Ruin ain't so special anymore

keikomyst

Lemme think...
Dual Blades: Storm's Harvest (NOBODY USES THIS, therefore make it desirable for PvP use.)
Archery: Gas Arrow (Again, nearly nobody uses this.)
Munitions: Rocket (Because what else in Munitions would apply Trauma?)
Power Armor: Power Gauntlet (It interrupts, too!)
Ice: Wall of Ice
Fire: Fireball (OW OW OW I'M ON FIIIIIIIIIIIIRE)
Single Blade: Buff Form of the Swordsman's heal debuff advantage to Trauma levels (making it competitive with Aspect of the Bestial)
Infernal is fine, it already heal-debuffs.

Any other powers? Ideally one for each powerset?

lovehammer1

keikomyst wrote: »

Lemme think...
Dual Blades: Storm's Harvest (NOBODY USES THIS, therefore make it desirable for PvP use.)
Archery: Gas Arrow (Again, nearly nobody uses this.)
Munitions: Rocket (Because what else in Munitions would apply Trauma?)
Power Armor: Power Gauntlet (It interrupts, too!)
Ice: Wall of Ice
Fire: Fireball (OW OW OW I'M ON FIIIIIIIIIIIIRE)
Single Blade: Buff Form of the Swordsman's heal debuff advantage to Trauma levels (making it competitive with Aspect of the Bestial)
Infernal is fine, it already heal-debuffs.

Any other powers? Ideally one for each powerset?

Tremor or Earthquake. Or maybe make stagger levels stack higher, faster.

stergiosman

keikomyst wrote: »

Lemme think...
Dual Blades: Storm's Harvest (NOBODY USES THIS, therefore make it desirable for PvP use.)
Archery: Gas Arrow (Again, nearly nobody uses this.)
Munitions: Rocket (Because what else in Munitions would apply Trauma?)
Power Armor: Power Gauntlet (It interrupts, too!)
Ice: Wall of Ice
Fire: Fireball (OW OW OW I'M ON FIIIIIIIIIIIIRE)
Single Blade: Buff Form of the Swordsman's heal debuff advantage to Trauma levels (making it competitive with Aspect of the Bestial)
Infernal is fine, it already heal-debuffs.

Any other powers? Ideally one for each powerset?

How about adding an on next hit trauma applying power as well?
Joking...making 10 powers have the same effect as it does would make the power itself useless in terms of damage,since powers like rocket and fireball deal way more damage than it does...

I agree on gas arrow though,maybe it could proc pestilence's debuff

monaahiru

Or add into Spec Tree... Anyway, it sounds not bad.

itsbrou

What makes you believe that proliferating trauma will help? I have seen min max builds zap eachother with ebon ruin without a kill all day while 2 shotting everyone else not exactly like them after a sonic device or force geyser.

This comes from a person who has assigned the points in Nullifying Punch for haymaker before.

smoochan

someguywhoplaysgames wrote: »

What makes you believe that proliferating trauma will help? I have seen min max builds zap eachother with ebon ruin without a kill all day while 2 shotting everyone else not exactly like them after a sonic device or force geyser.

This comes from a person who has assigned the points in Nullifying Punch for haymaker before.

Putting it on more powers turns powers that were formerly considered useless "noob traps" into viable options for pvp builds. Think how many powers there are that would suddenly become useless and unused if you were to remove "Crippling Challenge" or "Nailed to the Ground" from them.

Also, if Trauma were removed from Ebon Ruin, don't you think it might stop being such a staple of top-end builds?


Personally I think Trauma should only be available on low-damage powers, which would force people to take a low-damage power with Trauma to apply Trauma, and then a high damage power to actually do the damage.

wesleytansg

Hmmm, so I see this as a convergence of powers' characteristics in the aim of greater balance and to promote a range of powers?

I am not too sure about the impact.

Let's take fireball for example. People will likely still stick to ER because of the 100ft range so it is easier to tap and kite. Hmmm... if we give fireball 100ft range then perhaps its damage will become too high but if we lower its damage and take away the clinging flames, we end up with a reskin of ER...

It is like the different lunges which have variations whether they stun, root, fear etc. It is more for diversity although we all know some particular lunges are more preferred in PvP.

The same will go for blocks...other than energy shield, parry with advantage, most of the other blocks are really useless in the face of CC.

Force Geyser is a favourite 100ft knock for range as well and hurl as a CC, NttG applier. Should we make lunges 100ft?

Because I think extreme min/maxer (in terms of selecting a mix of all the "ultimate" powers) are still able to pick the one which would give that little bit more advantage.

OK, I know I am pushing this to the extreme but this is really just for discussion sake. I have no idea whether the outcome will be healthier for the game.

xeiros

Trauma does very little when it comes to actually defeating another hero. See the advantage itself is only a 50% reduction. In real world terms, that's 25%. The reduction is rather lackluster. For example, it reduces my 1,300 conviction to around 900 which while sometihng is not a night and day difference. You used to be able to stack Ruin with Pestilence, but they changed that.

You have to deal with five figure HP pools, stealth from EM that without stealth sight can leave you blind so often you'll barely have enough time to get a single charge off before they vanish again, AD rotation wherein when MD expires the second AD is already off the shared CD and you'll only have about a 15 second window in which both are on CD. Then you have to consider that in those 15 seconds they still have all their normal heals plus Active Offenses like Ego Surge with Nimble mind which allows for chained conviction criticals and Ascension which acts as both a self heal and healing strength buff.

If you try to hit Ego Surge, you will be at your most threatening yet all they have to do is counter it with Masterful Dodge since it will always be up when your Ego Surge is unless they choose hit use it preemptively. Lastly and best of all, there's Eruption which can be rotated with as many as you can get. Unless you gang up, it's nearly impossible to kill one vs one unless they either let you or you get extremely lucky and they get no dodges against your big hits even with MD up. So in the grand scheme of things, while trauma does help even with it you still have a long arduous slog ahead of you.

smoochan

xeiros wrote: »

Trauma does very little when it comes to actually defeating another hero. See the advantage itself is only a 50% reduction. In real world terms, that's 25%. The reduction is rather lackluster.

You have to deal with five figure HP pools, stealth from EM that without stealth sight can leave you blind so often you'll barely have enough time to get a single charge off before they vanish again, AD rotation wherein when MD expires the second AD is already off the shared CD and you'll only have about a 15 second window in which both are on CD. Then you have to consider that in those 15 seconds they still have all their normal heals plus Active Offenses like Ego Surge with Nimble mind which allows for chained conviction criticals and Ascension which acts as both a self heal and healing strength buff.

If you try to hit Ego Surge, you will be at your most threatening yet all they have to do is counter it with Masterful Dodge since it will always be up when your Ego Surge is unless they choose hit use it preemptively. Lastly and best of all, there's Eruption which can be rotated with as many as you can get. Unless you gang up, it's nearly impossible to kill one vs one unless they either let you or you get extremely lucky and they get no dodges against your big hits even with MD up. So in the grand scheme of things, while trauma does help even with it you still have a long arduous slog ahead of you.

Well... not putting Trauma on additional powers does even less to get people killed than putting Trauma on more powers would.

Personally I'm in favor of a 100% heal reduction effect that would be an option on certain maintained powers that is only in effect so long as that power is maintained.

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

eww.. what is it with you guys and healing debuffs?

xeiros

See the thing is, trauma is not CC, CS, or nailed and it likely never will be. No, it does not do even less, it barely makes any difference at all. As long as it remains lackluster that will remain true. High sustained DPS coupled with spike damage > a weak heal reduction. You either accept things the way they've been for over 3 years now or you can keep crying. I couldn't care less about trauma's implementation. You'd think people would get the message, but until then keep dreaming.

smoochan

xeiros wrote: »

See the thing is, trauma is not CC, CS, or nailed and it likely never will be. No, it does not do even less, it barely makes any difference at all. As long as it remains lackluster that will remain true. High sustained DPS coupled with spike damage > a weak heal reduction. You either accept things the way they've been for over 3 years now or you can keep crying. I couldn't care less about trauma's implementation. You'd think people would get the message, but until then keep dreaming.

There's nothing preventing you from having high sustained dps coupled with spike damage and trauma.

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

Well, with all the copybuilding going on, people only care about what they're told to care about, and I don't trust anyone else to make changes to powers if they never come up with their own solutions or run their own tests.

The rest just make builds from the same limited set of "essential powers" and accept the same flawed philosophy.

mrf0rz1

xeiros wrote: »

See the thing is, trauma is not CC, CS, or nailed and it likely never will be. No, it does not do even less, it barely makes any difference at all. As long as it remains lackluster that will remain true. High sustained DPS coupled with spike damage > a weak heal reduction. You either accept things the way they've been for over 3 years now or you can keep crying. I couldn't care less about trauma's implementation. You'd think people would get the message, but until then keep dreaming.

You can get that high (sustained) damage, and still have an attack that uses Trauma like let's say... Ruin - 2GM? :rolleyes: Or Strafing Run. Any bonus is good to take.

Besides, I suppose it's good to dream for the little hope it can give, it's not like we've been talking about balance suggestions for nearly a year (if not more, but it wasn't that afflicting back then). We wouldn't be ranting while watching the world burn if they ever gave one bit of care. Very few of us are left talking in these forums, some lurk around the forums for anything that could possibly change PvP, some others are still serious about PvP, the rest try to get the last bits of fun left in that feature and, we've got one ignorant, late of a couple of years pestering the section, and I think that's about it. It's useless to make suggestions if nobody will bother considering any of them.

boztwo

let' s put trauma on dragon' s wrath, and make it 100 ft range too :> i also want the rush buff to give us a darkish aura and make us immune to snare and also give a 20% bonus to dodge/avoidance

theravenforce

boztwo wrote: »

let' s put trauma on dragon' s wrath, and make it 100 ft range too :> i also want the rush buff to give us a darkish aura and make us immune to snare and also give a 20% bonus to dodge/avoidance

The day this happens is the day Personal Force Field is the best in game offensive passive and Psi Lash is the highest DPS power in CO.

stergiosman

theravenforce wrote: »

The day this happens is the day Personal Force Field is the best in game offensive passive and Psi Lash is the highest DPS power in CO.

You never know ...just a while ago we were talking about 2GM being useless....

oobtree

stergiosman wrote: »

You never know ...just a while ago we were talking about 2GM being useless....

Is that why 95% of all PvP builds use it?

biffsmackwell

oobtree wrote: »

Is that why 95% of all PvP builds use it?

Pretty sure he's saying that just a while ago (before it got buffed) nobody did use it. Point being that big changes can happen.

stergiosman

biffsmackwell wrote: »

Pretty sure he's saying that just a while ago (before it got buffed) nobody did use it. Point being that big changes can happen.

Exactly, thank you sir!

oobtree

All hail the munitions pass.

smoochan

I think it is more thematically appropriate if we hail the Celestial pass.




EDIT:

As an addition to this conversation, I believe that they should add heals to all the frameworks as well, so that there are thematic heals in each of them. Then, start making heals mutually exclusive in some way so people can't stack them all.

oobtree

That's the thing. If people weren't stacking multiple heal powers, trauma would be less of a necessity.

smoochan

To use bionic, BCR, and Conviction as an example.


BCR - while the heal over time effect is active, you cannot affect yourself with any other heals.

Bionic - while the bionic tampering effect is active, you cannot affect yourself with any other heals.

Conviction - no change needed, you just can't use it while either of the other two is active.


This would require some tweaking of course, such as each individual heal being buffed to make up for the fact that they can no longer be stacked, but not so much of course that you just end up back to the current situation; the durations would probably have to be lowered as well, otherwise you would be "locked in" to your current "healing mode" too long and it would be too easy for your opponent to adjust their attack strategy to counter. Trauma removing BCR would also have to be looked at as something to possibly remove.

The end result is that you would only be able to use one heal, meaning you would use the one appropriate for the situation; BCR for lots of fast small attacks, Bionic for slower big attacks, Conviction while you aren't actively taking damage. With shorter durations, this would mean a pair of opponents would be quickly switching between healing and offensive strategies to try to out-counter the other, as opposed to right now where you just spam all your heals. Or they wouldn't have two or all three heals and would instead build strategies/builds around using just one all the time.

Making additional heals in other powersets follow the same guideline would allow each framework to have its own thematic heals ( hopefully with interesting thematic mechancis, like say the fire set consuming its flame patches for burst healing, etc... ) without contributing to heal inflation.

xeiros

oobtree wrote: »

That's the thing. If people weren't stacking multiple heal powers, trauma would be less of a necessity.

Captain Obvious to the rescue! If players weren't trying so hard to live, I wouldn't need an advantage that would help me kill them. This is a game wherein the primary objective is to kill/defeat your enemies so that should go without saying. I also love how someone made a thread about trauma, and yet no one carers about Stronghold kicking players from the map for no reason or the fact that the turrets go through periods of immunity.

Attacks to give Trauma to ... attacks see in order for attacks and heals to be at their most potent one needs to fully rank them so they're out. It's the reason you take the trauma applying advantage of brute strike over nullifying punch on haymaker. ADs and AOs as well as energy unlocks and passives are out too. Would I take a terrible power if they stuck Trauma as an advantage on it? Not a chance.

Though you'd first need to convince them to care about PvP. I'd say good luck, but that has nothing to do with it. See instead of accepting things the way they are and continuing to play or not accepting them and moving on to another game, you people stay and throw your forum temper tantrums. Not just in this section, but everywhere. It does nobody any good. It make zero difference, and in the end that's what you actually want. You don't want to just vent all your frustrations about the state of the game, but that's all you can do.

smoochan

xeiros wrote: »

[...]
I also love how someone made a thread about trauma, and yet no one carers about Stronghold kicking players from the map for no reason or the fact that the turrets go through periods of immunity.

[...]

We cared about that months ago. If you want, start a thread about it... you'll get a couple pages of "Yeah they should fix that shouldn't they?".

Not really much to talk about there

xeiros wrote: »

[...]
Though you'd first need to convince them to care about PvP. I'd say good luck, but that has nothing to do with it. See instead of accepting things the way they are and continuing to play or not accepting them and moving on to another game, you people stay and throw your forum temper tantrums. Not just in this section, but everywhere. It does nobody any good. It make zero difference, and in the end that's what you actually want. You don't want to just vent all your frustrations about the state of the game, but that's all you can do.

Captain Obvious' side kick, Kid Irony?

If you don't like the posts, then close your eyes and randomly click your screen until all the bad forum windows are closed and then you'll be happy again!

stergiosman

Seriously, I don't get you guys.Just like Xeiros said, instead of constantly complaining that x power is OP and stuff of the like,why don't you do something more constructive?Taking more heals means you sacrifice some attack powers,so yeah make an unkillable build and most probably you won't be able to kill either.Remember when ebon ruin was not applying the trauma debuff? I do, it was USELESS! Think of it without trauma...isn't it as bad as gas arrow?Think of 10 other powers with trauma...wouldn't it be like the binding ofarathorn or whatever in terms of effectiveness?
Sure you can pick ER and 3 self heals but then...you won't have the power to kill any of the aware pvpers...this is why mal will never kill Lucy and Lucy will never kill mal for example...they both go for 95% defenses and hope enemy will not do the same.

oobtree

Leave me out of this. I have 4 attacks already. Thx.

I do plenty of damage. Did you watch that duel vid with stupcidity? All that newb did was run around in circles trying to avoid me, scared to die.

keikomyst

I dream that one day every powerset will be viable on its own for PvPing and mixing and matching will be less of a necessity.

I hate gangsta angelclowns who can harness the power of darkness, you see.

oobtree

keikomyst wrote: »

I hate gangsta angelclowns who can harness the power of darkness, you see.

That's the spirit! Taking notes from stupcidity? Don't hate the playas, hate the game.

keikomyst

oobtree wrote: »

That's the spirit! Taking notes from stupcidity? Don't hate the playas, hate the game.

I do hate the game; for not having each and every powerset be properly equipped for PvP. Also, angelclowns are just a really funny PvP stereotype thanks to Brou!

oobtree

keikomyst wrote: »

I do hate the game; for not having each and every powerset be properly equipped for PvP. Also, angelclowns are just a really funny PvP stereotype thanks to Brou!

True. Yea... THANKS BROU. The original hater.

stergiosman

oobtree wrote:

Leave me out of this. I have four attacks already. Thx.

I do plenty of damage. Did you watch that duel vid with stupcidity?

I never doubted this, but come on other than ebon ruin, what attack can kill?sonic device?void shift or the detonation? I agree they are all useful but none of them does more damage than ER and that is around 5k damage...it's not something bad,my build does the same thing.Now yeah,she knows she can't win so she spams her heals and dodge buffs.We could(and it almost became a trend last August) make paragon builds(copy if you want it) and never lose,I swear I was in a bash with 3 paragon builds(none of them was Wesley) and game just ended stalemate, I was using that build too at that time and right after that game,I saw why it should never again become the fotm,coz it would simply make PvP even more monotonous, so yeah tendency is to make a build unkillable,but when everyone builds that way it will again take 10 players to take one down
...just my point of view

oobtree

At least Wesley could 1 shot people with UR.

itsbrou

oobtree wrote: »

True. Yea... THANKS BROU. The original hater.

It got all of the Black Friday toasters. Who doesn't hate that?

theravenforce

stergiosman wrote: »

You never know ...just a while ago we were talking about 2GM being useless....

lol I'd love to see what PFF would do as an OFFENSIVE passive xD

smoochan

Relevant.

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

heh... Only n00bs need healing debuffs to get kills. :P

wesleytansg

oobtree wrote: »

At least Wesley could 1 shot people with UR.

That was before imbue nerf. Since then I have to do a some stats, skills and power shuffling to maintain a near perma 90% crit chance. I also lost quite a bit of crit severity because of PSS INT. As such I can only 1 shot squishy players using UR alone. However I supplement it with NPGs . Even then it is hard to 1 shot in duel. I still love the double, triple KOs in HG last time haha.

I BLAME YOU for the imbue nerf MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA, joking, it was broken and needed to be fixed as some powers were not consuming it but the way they fixed it was off-tangent.

oobtree

Yes, blame me! Mwahaha! Altho I just wanted the consume bug fixed.. ..not the butchering it received.

jennymachx

Toxic Nanites.

Burning Chi Fist to give it its own unique draw compared to Haymaker.

EDIT: I've derped and failed to realize that Haymaker has it as well. I guess I should have said "to make BCF on par with Haymaker".

gamehobo

Would you PvPers and min maxers be willing to put the powers on a powers table listing base DPS?

Here's the thing.. we really do want balance but when someone suggests it the community can't agree.. Even something as simple as Bezzy Balance was ruled outrageous.

If you want PvP to thrive on the merits of a freeform system you have to be willing to:
1) accept when nerfs are neccesary (and documented) and
2) define frameworks synergy in and out of set
3) Make each synergy set (notice i dont say framework) serve a unique purpose for playstyle.


If you're asking for a renaissance, you have to be willing to let go of the idea that inequality is a good thing.

I like min/maxers but, to me, it's obvious that obstructionists to balance have been extremely unhealthy to the game. They also seem to be the most vocal and loyal.

smoochan

gamehobo wrote: »

[...]
If you're asking for a renaissance, you have to be willing to let go of the idea that inequality is a good thing.

[...]

Sometimes I wonder if even a monster truck with mecha-bears for wheels could manage to get past that roadblock.

wufflechan

Just have trauma be a 1 point adv added to every attack. Healing and survivability is way out of control anyways.

braddkashh

Powers are fine as they are. If anything, devs need to bring back imbue exactly as it was and all life would be restored into PVP.

prankenstein

gamehobo wrote: »

Would you PvPers and min maxers be willing to put the powers on a powers table listing base DPS? I sure wouldn't. all the devs need to know is that only 2GM, ER, and Defile are used for tapspams. The bursts, like Detonation, SR, SS, Explosive Arrow, and Rift don't need fixing due to their comaparatively long cooldown.

Here's the thing.. we really do want balance but when someone suggests it the community can't agree.. Even something as simple as Bezzy Balance was ruled outrageous.

If you want PvP to thrive on the merits of a freeform system you have to be willing to:
1) accept when nerfs are neccesary (and documented) Problem is, bezzy, if you nerf our Trauma applicators and main damage dealers, you're going to cause much, much high dependence upon devices, wait for 3-4 ice grenades in a row, followed up by an NPG to the face. Why bother tapspamming when it's doing nothing?
2) define frameworks synergy in and out of set. Assuming I understand what you mean... WE- the innately experienced minmaxers, who you are trying to fix, don't need this.
3) Make each synergy set (notice i dont say framework) serve a unique purpose for playstyle. This requires a full revamp of the entire powersystem. It is fruitless to argue about something which will not happen.


If you're asking for a renaissance, you have to be willing to let go of the idea that inequality is a good thing. You do, however, have to define a line between equality and reskins.

I like min/maxers but, to me, it's obvious that obstructionists to balance have been extremely unhealthy to the game. They also seem to be the most vocal and loyal.

Boldyay.

#10charsyoloswag

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

*steals from green's build collection* rawr </3

wufflechan wrote: »

Just have trauma be a 1 point adv added to every attack. Healing and survivability is way out of control anyways.

LOL... I just killed someone with Way of the Warrior and Dragon's Wrath in PvP. STFU. ^_^

braddkashh wrote: »

Powers are fine as they are. If anything, devs need to bring back imbue exactly as it was and all life would be restored into PVP.

See, even braG knows Imbue wasn't unbeatable. ^_~

stergiosman

braddkashh wrote: »

Powers are fine as they are. If anything, devs need to bring back imbue exactly as it was and all life would be restored into PVP.

YEAH!totally agree there!!

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

Powers are lame as they are; Cryptic will break something else if people keep crying. Who knows... maybe if they add trauma to powers it could cause random server crashes. :P

braddkashh

lucyinspacewithdiamonds wrote: »

Powers are lame as they are; Cryptic will break something else if people keep crying. Who knows... maybe if they add trauma to powers it could cause random server crashes. :P

I actually agree. Stop crying kids. Deal with what we have. It's not gonna get any better, just worse if you continue being crybabies. (not meant to offend anyone, just put bluntly).

If you wanna cry about powers, make a thread in suggestion or general section asking to bring back imbue as it was with no fixes. Only thing that is wrong with PvP is that. Hence why more than half of the PvPers left after imbue patch.

oobtree

braddkashh wrote: »

If you wanna cry about powers, make a thread in suggestion or general section asking to bring back imbue as it was with no fixes. Only thing that is wrong with PvP is that. Hence why more than half of the PvPers left after imbue patch.

Fawk that broke-**** imbue.. They can bring it back as it was, but at least fixed to consume on heal/attack LIKE IT SHOULDA! *****.