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Here I rant about legacy devices and Legion Gear.
keikomyst
Posts: 626 Arc User
I was originally going to post this in The Kumite but ... I dunno, I didn't wanna derail it further. 
Anyway. Legacy Devices and Legion Gear are BS.
There are limited ways to get Legacy Devices, none of which involve normal gameplay or PvP.
1. Buy keys, open lockboxes ($20 per attempt at most)
2. Spend hours grinding for G's (Wherever your preferred place is, though the current record is 2k G in three hours during Resource Hour with resource boosts. Personally, when I see 2k G I think 'costume money and retcons woohoo
')
3. Playing the market (which requires you to already have G's and to be able to deal with the crappy CO economy)
4. Buy keys, sell them on the Auction House (90G-100G a pop, requires $1 OR at current Questionite value, 3 full Questionite daily completions on three different characters per key ((with 20 zen left over)), and this is subject to change! You do get a better deal if you grind your way to the Lockbox key 10 pack, however)
5. Just start rich~
1. Luck
2. GRIIIIIND, MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
3. Luck
4. GRIND.exe
5. i dunno you just have millions of G's sitting around i guess???
Personally, I blame Cryptic/PWE for this one, but the fact remains: getting Legacy Devices? REALLY REALLY FREAKING DIFFICULT unless you have the patience of a saint or the luck of a leprechaun.
And let's not forget, you're also subject to availability. Say you want a Neuroelectric Pulse Generator. You are SOL if someone hasn't pulled one and put it on the AH. It may not even be the right price either!
That's why I think Legacy Devices are BS.
Legion Gear is even more BS. You're only gonna find it on the Trade channel or the Auction House nowadays, or you could buy more Tako boxes and burn more keys to get the ULTIMATE ELITE GEAR so your Ebon Ruins can do... what... 200 more damage? Or get your 2GM doing an extra 50 damage a tick? Plus, there's only three or four Legion pieces that are useful!
At least R7 mods are realistically attainable and the advantage R9s have over them is so minute that it doesn't even matter. I'm not gonna go and call anyone a lifeless loser if they have R9s, because those might actually be nice to have in case of a level cap increase. (ha ha fat chance)
To wrap this up... why do we have to grind SO HARD in PvE to be able to compete in PvP? It's no fun being forced to kill the same things over and over and over and over again just to buy a Legacy Device or a piece of Legion Gear so you can hold an advantage over everyone else and play with the big boys. I guess if you really worked that hard for your advantage, you deserve it, right? I understand completely, I've still got my handy-dandy Eagle Rifle that makes my Soldier a sniper goddess. I worked my butt off for that thing, and I even grinded another one up for my friend before On Alert! The difference was I was PvPing and having fun doing it.
I know this isn't gonna change anyone's opinion, but I dunno, I've just been thinkin' about the state of PvP and how good it used to be. I wish Ego Storm was OP again...
ps. ALSO SCREW VIGILANTE GEAR FOR REQUIRING SO MUCH GRINDING. OK, I'm done for real this time, discuss.
tl;dr keiko whining about legacy devices again, what a choob
Anyway. Legacy Devices and Legion Gear are BS.
There are limited ways to get Legacy Devices, none of which involve normal gameplay or PvP.
1. Buy keys, open lockboxes ($20 per attempt at most)
2. Spend hours grinding for G's (Wherever your preferred place is, though the current record is 2k G in three hours during Resource Hour with resource boosts. Personally, when I see 2k G I think 'costume money and retcons woohoo
')3. Playing the market (which requires you to already have G's and to be able to deal with the crappy CO economy)
4. Buy keys, sell them on the Auction House (90G-100G a pop, requires $1 OR at current Questionite value, 3 full Questionite daily completions on three different characters per key ((with 20 zen left over)), and this is subject to change! You do get a better deal if you grind your way to the Lockbox key 10 pack, however)
5. Just start rich~
1. Luck
2. GRIIIIIND, MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
3. Luck
4. GRIND.exe
5. i dunno you just have millions of G's sitting around i guess???
Personally, I blame Cryptic/PWE for this one, but the fact remains: getting Legacy Devices? REALLY REALLY FREAKING DIFFICULT unless you have the patience of a saint or the luck of a leprechaun.
And let's not forget, you're also subject to availability. Say you want a Neuroelectric Pulse Generator. You are SOL if someone hasn't pulled one and put it on the AH. It may not even be the right price either!
That's why I think Legacy Devices are BS.
Legion Gear is even more BS. You're only gonna find it on the Trade channel or the Auction House nowadays, or you could buy more Tako boxes and burn more keys to get the ULTIMATE ELITE GEAR so your Ebon Ruins can do... what... 200 more damage? Or get your 2GM doing an extra 50 damage a tick? Plus, there's only three or four Legion pieces that are useful!
At least R7 mods are realistically attainable and the advantage R9s have over them is so minute that it doesn't even matter. I'm not gonna go and call anyone a lifeless loser if they have R9s, because those might actually be nice to have in case of a level cap increase. (ha ha fat chance)
To wrap this up... why do we have to grind SO HARD in PvE to be able to compete in PvP? It's no fun being forced to kill the same things over and over and over and over again just to buy a Legacy Device or a piece of Legion Gear so you can hold an advantage over everyone else and play with the big boys. I guess if you really worked that hard for your advantage, you deserve it, right? I understand completely, I've still got my handy-dandy Eagle Rifle that makes my Soldier a sniper goddess. I worked my butt off for that thing, and I even grinded another one up for my friend before On Alert! The difference was I was PvPing and having fun doing it.
I know this isn't gonna change anyone's opinion, but I dunno, I've just been thinkin' about the state of PvP and how good it used to be.
I wish Ego Storm was OP again...ps. ALSO SCREW VIGILANTE GEAR FOR REQUIRING SO MUCH GRINDING. OK, I'm done for real this time, discuss.
tl;dr keiko whining about legacy devices again, what a choob
Post edited by keikomyst on
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I'd rather get STO's level of lockbox suck if worthwhile updates come with it. -Buxom
But since when do the devs do anything to benefit pvp? Never. You'd think it's against their policies or something.
"Oh, making gear and devices that are best used and meant for PvP available by doing actual PvP to get them? That makes perfect sense. So much sense that it obviously CAN'T be true. Yeah, I'll just stick to making money, screw what makes sense and is logical and what the majority of my players want. Screw the players."
Legacy Devices and Legion Gear in PvP vendors would breathe life back into PvP, but I can hear the complaining already... also, MONEY!
Anyway the rest of my response will not be about whether legion gear and devices are overpowered since that is not the direction of your OP, but rather about the "grindiness" of it. I thoroughly agree that it is a tough grind and being able to do it only through PvE and not PvP games is definitely limiting the choices (thank god I have the patience of a saint and a lack of life ROFL mixed with a slightly deeper pocket).
To give an idea of the amount of time, money and effort spent, here are some figures I pulled. I have over 400k of unrefined questionites just on Paragon. I also just did a check on My Wallet and I have spent a total of USD$270 since October 2012 bringing that to about USD$45 a month. There is also the 500z stipends that comes in monthly for LTS. I emphasize that a large part of this is a result of wanting to get my hands on the become celestial device and the grav bike widow (both of which I hardly even use LOL) and the R8-R9 rank-up catalysts which as keiko pointed out hardly make any diff from R7. Paragon is fully R9 (with exception of 1 R5 avoidance core) legion gear and 2 vigilante pieces with 1 hospitable eyepiece. I also have another toon fully R7 legion and full vigilante. I am doing a mix of grind, fuse and spend. Admittedly, not everyone will or can spend as much in terms of both time and money. TBH the bulk of my spending seems to be going to vanity items more than anything else (R9s, widow etc)
Due to my insufficient exposure to enough MMOs but those few I had played before generally had end game grinds for equipment (perhaps because at least one is an asian MMO). I was just wondering if end game gear are too easily accessible, then will there be a concern that there is insufficient activities for maxed-out toons? I know that they can pump out more content and perhaps sell content instead but I think the issue here is also the likely lack of devs on CO. It is certainly easier to churn out a piece of gear with some stats attached to it with no graphical manifestation besides the tiny little icon. Unfortunately this method apparently has proven to be quite an income generator for them.
Keiko you also mentioned about R9 and level cap increase. I highly, highly doubt there will be any level cap increase. I have this nagging feeling that the engine and system was not build with sufficient consideration to expand the level cap without breaking many things. However, I will not be surprised if they bring in Rank X (10) mods or even in time to come, introduce Cosmic Gear with 5 slots. That is typical of power creep. You keep giving those high level regular players something to grind while churning out a minimal hygiene level of content at the same time so that you do not lose players i.e. maximum rewards with minimal effort. Now, I will not be surprised if people call me a fanboy of CO and I really do not detest that term. I really like this game and I want it to last as long as possible even if it may not be in an ideal state.
Now coming back to PvP providing relevant rewards (like questionites) so that players have alternative farming paths is a great idea. That way, both PvE and PvP lovers can play the content they enjoy and still progress. I am totally in favour of it and have even suggested it before in forum. I think the only unresolved issue could be the fixed matches and players throwing the game both ways just to speedily farm the rewards. Yes, most true PvPers will never resort to this but it cannot be said for those who will take advantage and abuse the system. If this could be somehow addressed satisfactorily without much effort on Dev's side to implement I think that is the way PvP should go.
But for the moment, this saint with no life will just continue to grind where the rewards are I guess. (I guess the fact I can take time to post such lengthy verbal diarrhoea on the forum is evidence of the lack of life)
PS: if any devs read this, my luck is really terrible (to the extent I only buy legion gear from AH or other players rather than try lockboxes) and in the 2 cycles of Hi Pan and Warlord (I do farm them to an extent) I have not even gotten a single mod drop, hint hint. I am not implying to increase the drop rate for everyone, just for ME will do muahahahahaha..cough cough wheez
True. Even using INT+CON maximized perma-MD Ascension with multi-Eruption, that build can be killed. Every build have some weak point.
It is the quest for better gear,costumes and other items that maintains people's interest in a game like this...
Yes I hate the fact they require money,however u could also get keys by running lairs and grinding.I assure you, 15-20 keys can be acquired by 3 hours of Pve grinding and smart trades (always beneficial for both sides ofc).
Other than that I agree with paragon that such items (like questionite and pve farming awards of the like,maybe globals too) should be rewarded for competing in the HG.Way PvP is treated atm makes it seem just a happy thought however...but you never know.
It used to be that we would play fun alts and only break out our one "min/max badass" for the most competitive situations, but now it's all min/max badasses all the time. I blame the influx of immature players as well as the gear inflation.
On the other hand if PvP drops Tako boxes, not that is a different issue altogether.
Yeah my mistake for not stating it in a more clear way,"those" in my post does not refer to legiongears/devices either,but on q-nite,
Sry mye engrish is deh suxzors
Someone should make a post in the hero games forum outlining what all those weak points are. Folks might be more willing to engage in pvp if the gurus were willing to tell them what they have to do to be competitive.
Then again, going by the fact that everyone blurs out their power bar in their videos, I doubt they're going to be willing to divulge their secrets, for fear that their winning streaks will suddenly end :biggrin:
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Perma MD/Ascension and multi-eruption builds are best killed using sleep and shadowstrike. The absence of a target prevents the user from activating eruption. They will not be using perception gear or mods because that will actually worsen their cooldown speed (unless they choose to have 2 sets of gear).
Eruption also has a 50 ft range which means it cannot be activated unless they are close enough.
Eruption's damage immunity also does not have any impact on fall damage.
Watch the MD buff and sleep the user when his MD is about to end and follow it with a shadowstrike.
Repeated application of sleep will reduce the amount of cooldown application from energy builder using revitalise, making the lapse between active defenses and even eruption wider.
A well-timed force geyser can also disrupt the activation of MD or eruption although this is far more luck dependent.
I mean sure, the "gurus" can list a series of combis and ways to take down certain builds. However, it is still dependent on whether the player can execute them and wouldn't it be a bore? Why not discover the tricks of the games by oneself rather than ask to be spoonfed?
Yup.
Even someone had Legion-Speed with 2 Impact R9 Modified, Revitalize R3 and also AoAC super recharge speed build, things won't go true "Permanent" cause if they want to attack someone with high-DPS, they have to "Charge" most of the powers and that charge time (or, motion time of Tap/Click powers) will stop the effect of Revitalize.
"Hard to be killed" build are also "hard to kill" build in most case. I think many people know endless duel. xD
Wes is the best Tank build I ever know but even he can be defeated. Just queue ZA and everyone enjoy! :rolleyes:
PvP "gurus" aren't supposed to tell people how to think.
This is pretty much what "pvp advice" always boils down to. It's never really a strategy, it's always a "build to defeat that person"... oh, but what about that other person over there? "Oh... well you'll have to retcon again if you want to beat them".
Pretty much hits the nail on the head for why pvp isn't popular here.
Winning is fun right? Well, if you want people to become interested in pvp, you have to make it fun for them. The devs aren't gonna do it. So you can choose... you can continue to dominate, or pvp can become popular. Don't worry, we both know which one you're gonna pick, since you already did in your post :P
It's not your responsibility to make pvp fun for anyone but yourself.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Hmm, ok, I don't quite get your definition of strategy here. Are you referring to something like use the enclosed areas so that range cannot kite melee kind of strategy or?
I don't know, I think for me at least it is always about the process of putting together a build which is good, coming up with counter moves etc. I am a lazy (and hence not a good representation of a PvPer) player and like to let the build rather than my fingers do the talking. Furthermore I always aim to design builds which are viable in as many aspects as possible (eg. tank and dps in both PvE and PvP, solo cosmics, mow down mobs etc etc) hence I hardly retcon my toons. I also usually know which powers I may want to swap so I put it right on the top of the list to minimize cost. The only time drastic changes are needed are when major changes/nerfs are implemented which affects the entire build like imbue becoming an AO.
Is winning really the sole determinant of fun? If that is the case I could lawn-mowed many toons in ren cen. On those occasions when people challenge me to a duel, I will actually watch to see if they can even scratch my build. If they cannot, more often than not I leave the duel arena. It becomes fun when there is a challenging fight. I also actively avoid PvPing because I think Paragon's build is in my opinion too trollish. Of course, I guess it is certainly not fun when a favorite concept toon gets ripped apart in PvP which is quite likely the case. (Just a side-note, I really hate getting kited, while I can't get killed, it is really a hassle to keep running after your opponent.)
I think I belong to the category who prefers to fight the war in the mind than on the battlefield which makes me more a strategist that a warrior LOL.
To be viable is quite a busy job. Click click click click... Oops I pressed wrong power! R.I.P...