Ways to get some Nemesis work done: Paid Ideas

pariahoyama

Let me stary by saying that I ADORE the nemesis system. Even with its' bugs and issues it is one of my favorite features of any game EVER. I cannot thank the development team enough for including this feature! It makes my characters feel super and that is the point, isn't it?

In another thread about getting some development love for the sadly broken nemesis system I happened to mention that part of the reason it might not be getting worked on is because as a whole the nemesis system does not make the developers/publishers any real money. I mean why would you work on something that doesn't make you a penny, right? Anyways if we can generate some tasty money making ideas MAYBE we could see some bug fixes and additional content in this area that would extend the end game somewhat to boot.

I have come up with some ideas off the top of my head that might entice some development on, what I feel is, one of the gaming industry's most innovative and fun features. So here are a few of the ideas I had about nemesis that might actually make some money for Cryptic and PWE:

Charge us for additional Nems
Why stop at ONE nemi when you could have 2 or 20 actively plotting the doom of your character!!! Nemi slots! Batman fights several opponents. Sure The Joker will always be his "numbah one a guy", but Penguin, Riddler and Two-Face can be charged for! Basically let us design multiple nemesis and have them all be at different points in their attempts to destroy/take-over the world!

Make us pay for customizable Nemi lairs
I am not talking about a full foundry, but similar to our hideouts let us buy a lair for our nemi and somewhat customize it. There wouldn't have to be a lot of them...maybe 5 (Submarine Base, Techno Base, Moonbase, Temple Lair, and of course Volcano Cave Lair) and let us make superficial changes to their command room or throne room. The base would be a daily mission that we could trigger at a contact. We would then get to raid it for either mods, small amounts of Questionite and/or Nemi tokens. The end of the lair mission would culminate in an epic (scaled for team size) mission against the nemesis themselves! if you had purchased more than one nemesis then you would select which one you wanted to fight and maybe other nemesis could be in there working together to destroy you!

Make a paid item to trigger an attack by your Nemesis
Basically allow the player to pay cash to buy an item that triggers their nemesis and a few minions to attack them! The item is clicked and will trigger an attack at some point in the next 10-30 minutes, but the player doesn't know when in that time frame. Then when they defeat the nemesis and the minions drop either nemesis tokens, a random Questionite box or respec token depending on which KIND of "trigger nemesis attack" item they purchased at the Zen Store. The item would only be triggerable once a day and would automatically leave behind a nemesis clue. If the player buys all 3 types of "trigger nemesis attack" items they trigger a global cooldown and the device would have infinite charges.

Have an item that triggers a nemesis confrontation IN OUR HIDEOUT!
Basically we buy a consumable item that triggers a nemesis attack on our hideout! In the confined spaces of our hideout we (and our team) have to fend off an attack of 5 waves of enemy attacks that ends with a nemesis battle! This attack would be against PARTS of your base. So they could attack your crimecomp/shared bank and while they are there a big glowing clipping brush would block you from using it until they are dealt with. They could be attacking your tailor or living area or even the the entrance itself trapping you inside until you deal with them! The player would then be awarded something like a resource booster or something trivial like that. This item could only be used once, but it would cost much less Zen.

I invite you all to offer up more ideas of your own about the nemesis system as a whole, but specifically any money making ideas you might be willing to pay for and get behind. Please discuss what people have posted and mention your enthusiasm level for this sort of content is you want to see more nemesis content. Thanks!

fudgemonsta

Most of it sounds neat, but one quick thing : We can already make multiple nemi's.

dataweaver42

As I read it, the OP is talking about having several Nemeses active at the same time, rather than having one active and all of the others in jail. The one complication to this would be: when Minions randomly spawn to attack you, which ones spawn?

As to the other suggestions:

I'll have to think some more on the "customizable lair" idea. I like the idea of my nemesis having a lair, and I would very definitely prefer that my final confrontation with him take place in said lair instead of the volcano base. But as something that I raid daily? I'm not as fond of that idea. And without that, I'm not sure how interested I'd be in buying something that I'd only see once.

Paying to trigger an attack by your nemesis: I'm glad you said "by your nemesis", and not "by your nemesis' minions". Still, I'd be disinclined to spend money on a single attack by my nemesis. I would be willing to pay money for a tweak that causes my nemesis to personally do hit-and-runs against me (i.e., fight until 2/3 health, then run away) instead of sending his minions after me, for the remainder of his time as an active nemesis.

Paying to have your nemesis and/or his minions attack you in your hideout: I'd generalize this to "anywhere".

What would I be willing to spend Zen on with respect to my Nemesis?

• - A Travel Power. Not every Nemesis needs one; but some do.
• - Access to costume pieces, stances, moods, etc. that aren't available to my character. For a flat fee, I want a token that lets me freely use any costume piece in the game when designing my Nemesis' look, not just costume pieces that I've unlocked. Likewise, let me put a smirk or a sneer on my Nemesis' face, even if I can't smirk or sneer.
• - More minion choices. I'd pay to be able to pick a faction from the game such as VIPER to provide my nemesis' minions.
• - Customized minions. Likewise, I'd pay to be able to do something as simple as tweaking the color schemes of my nemesis' minions. If this can be expanded to something more substantial, so much the better.
• - Purchasable personalities. I'd pay good money to gain access to a fourth or fifth alternative to the existing "brilliant/savage/goofy" trilogy of personality types.
• - The ability to find Nemesis Clue Missions in my Hideout's Crime Computer every six hours or so, instead of having to go out and farm for a Nemesis Clue.
• - The aforementioned "hit-and-runs by my nemesis instead of his henchmen" option.

battybattybats

/signed

* new costume sets designed with nemesis in mind but usable for everyone

* Nemesis/minion vehicles binding to Nemesis/minions in creator of which activates new vehicle vs vehicle Nemesis missions such as car-chases after a bank robbery till you reach the bad guys hideout, stopping a Nemesis in a plane from blowing up the dam, defending an installation from waves of flying vehicle minions followed by an aerial boss-fight with your Nemesis

* Customisable Loved One. Purchase this and make your hero's civilian loved one such as a plucky reporter girlfriend, handsome billionaire boyfriend, local cop nearing retirement who always helps out, that beloved hobo near the wharf that always knows what's going down or the little innocent orphan. This then activates a series of missions where the Nemesis repeatedly kidnaps the loved-one and the hero must save them. This should have two main optional modes: Golden-age and Iron-age. In Golden age the missions can be failed but the loved one never dies, in Iron-age fail to rescue them and the system erases their data and they are gone and if the player wants to re-make them or a replacement loved one they have to pay again.

* Nemesis Adventure Pack. Buy this for the ultimate customisable adventure where you and your Nemesis are the central feature! Choose from a list of set variables that will effect the Nemesis's dialogue, some locations and several key plot elements and then an adventure unfolds that includes using your hideout computer to analyze clues, protecting your secret identity if you have one, protecting your loved one if you purchased the loved one option, interacting with NPCs you get to name that are chosen from a set of pre-mades not all of who may survive the adventure. The ultimate adventure for Champions as things get personal!

pariahoyama

My notes in BLUE

dataweaver42 wrote: »

As I read it, the OP is talking about having several Nemeses active at the same time, rather than having one active and all of the others in jail. The one complication to this would be: when Minions randomly spawn to attack you, which ones spawn? Random perhaps. So long as they are active. Then a random minion horde would suffice I would think.

As to the other suggestions:

I'll have to think some more on the "customizable lair" idea. I like the idea of my nemesis having a lair, and I would very definitely prefer that my final confrontation with him take place in said lair instead of the volcano base. But as something that I raid daily? I'm not as fond of that idea. And without that, I'm not sure how interested I'd be in buying something that I'd only see once. Well how about weekly? I like it being a daily OPTION. Not required, but optionally available every day.

Paying to trigger an attack by your nemesis: I'm glad you said "by your nemesis", and not "by your nemesis' minions". Still, I'd be disinclined to spend money on a single attack by my nemesis. I would be willing to pay money for a tweak that causes my nemesis to personally do hit-and-runs against me (i.e., fight until 2/3 health, then run away) instead of sending his minions after me, for the remainder of his time as an active nemesis. That is essentially what I am talking about. The nemesis themselves attack you. Maybe with a few minions with them. I like the idea of having it be more of a series of hit and run attacks from nowhere! That is cool!

Paying to have your nemesis and/or his minions attack you in your hideout: I'd generalize this to "anywhere". Agreed. I was thinking about it and attacking your hideout seems cool at first, but it could get too stick with some hideout types

What would I be willing to spend Zen on with respect to my Nemesis?

• - A Travel Power. Not every Nemesis needs one; but some do. I personally think that this could get really bad in the nemesis alerts so perhaps they have it during personal encounters, but not during the alerts so as not to alienate certain builds. Otherwise this is a cool idea!
• - Access to costume pieces, stances, moods, etc. that aren't available to my character. For a flat fee, I want a token that lets me freely use any costume piece in the game when designing my Nemesis' look, not just costume pieces that I've unlocked. Likewise, let me put a smirk or a sneer on my Nemesis' face, even if I can't smirk or sneer. THIS would be really cool! I like the thinking here. Making them more sinister, crazy and unique could help a lot. SOmetimes I really feel like I am beating up on a poorly attired Champion right now. lol
• - More minion choices. I'd pay to be able to pick a faction from the game such as VIPER to provide my nemesis' minions. Yeah serisouly...so signed!
• - Customized minions. Likewise, I'd pay to be able to do something as simple as tweaking the color schemes of my nemesis' minions. If this can be expanded to something more substantial, so much the better. See above
• - Purchasable personalities. I'd pay good money to gain access to a fourth or fifth alternative to the existing "brilliant/savage/goofy" trilogy of personality types.
• - The ability to find Nemesis Clue Missions in my Hideout's Crime Computer every six hours or so, instead of having to go out and farm for a Nemesis Clue. I would like it better if we could do "reseach nemesis" missions to suss out what our nemi is up to, but this works too!
• - The aforementioned "hit-and-runs by my nemesis instead of his henchmen" option.

pariahoyama

My notes in BLUE

battybattybats wrote: »

/signed

* new costume sets designed with nemesis in mind but usable for everyone /signed as the above poster mentioned

* Nemesis/minion vehicles binding to Nemesis/minions in creator of which activates new vehicle vs vehicle Nemesis missions such as car-chases after a bank robbery till you reach the bad guys hideout, stopping a Nemesis in a plane from blowing up the dam, defending an installation from waves of flying vehicle minions followed by an aerial boss-fight with your Nemesis I would love this to get expanded into chase missions, stop the villain from making their vehicle type missions and beat to checkpoint type missions. Sounds like it could be fun

* Customisable Loved One. Purchase this and make your hero's civilian loved one such as a plucky reporter girlfriend, handsome billionaire boyfriend, local cop nearing retirement who always helps out, that beloved hobo near the wharf that always knows what's going down or the little innocent orphan. This then activates a series of missions where the Nemesis repeatedly kidnaps the loved-one and the hero must save them. This should have two main optional modes: Golden-age and Iron-age. In Golden age the missions can be failed but the loved one never dies, in Iron-age fail to rescue them and the system erases their data and they are gone and if the player wants to re-make them or a replacement loved one they have to pay again. This could be a GREAT idea in general! We could have all kinds of missions around this idea alone!

* Nemesis Adventure Pack. Buy this for the ultimate customisable adventure where you and your Nemesis are the central feature! Choose from a list of set variables that will effect the Nemesis's dialogue, some locations and several key plot elements and then an adventure unfolds that includes using your hideout computer to analyze clues, protecting your secret identity if you have one, protecting your loved one if you purchased the loved one option, interacting with NPCs you get to name that are chosen from a set of pre-mades not all of who may survive the adventure. The ultimate adventure for Champions as things get personal! As hard as this would be to implement it would be awesome! I am not sure if the developers could do it, but making this be something you purchase and can replay occasionally would be cool!

dataweaver42

Note that inherent in these proposals is the idea of trying for maximum efficiency: we want things that can be done with a minimum of additional coding, since the idea is to bring in more revenue to pay for bigger changes later on.

battybattybats wrote: »

* new costume sets designed with nemesis in mind but usable for everyone

Talk about getting the most bang for your buck? I'd even settle for costume sets sold at two prices in the C-Store: a lower price (no more than half the usual) for Nemesis-only use, and full price to unlock the costume parts for both yourself and your Nemeses. The former would be easier to code; the latter would require more work (in that the game engine would need to keep track of your Nemeses' extra costume unlocks separately from yours), but would do a better job of emphasizing the "this was designed with nemeses in mind" nature of said sets.

battybattybats wrote: »

* Nemesis/minion vehicles binding to Nemesis/minions in creator of which activates new vehicle vs vehicle Nemesis missions such as car-chases after a bank robbery till you reach the bad guys hideout, stopping a Nemesis in a plane from blowing up the dam, defending an installation from waves of flying vehicle minions followed by an aerial boss-fight with your Nemesis

This strikes me as more of a "something to do once we have more funds to work with" sort of thing, as opposed to a good way to raise some cash. As well, I'm getting concerned with the extent to which vehicles are being pushed thus far; IMHO, they need [iless[/i] emphasis in the game, not more. Revisit this idea later on, once vehicles have been given a chance to settle into their proper role in the game and aren't so much of a sore spot anymore.

battybattybats wrote: »

* Customisable Loved One. Purchase this and make your hero's civilian loved one such as a plucky reporter girlfriend, handsome billionaire boyfriend, local cop nearing retirement who always helps out, that beloved hobo near the wharf that always knows what's going down or the little innocent orphan. This then activates a series of missions where the Nemesis repeatedly kidnaps the loved-one and the hero must save them. This should have two main optional modes: Golden-age and Iron-age. In Golden age the missions can be failed but the loved one never dies, in Iron-age fail to rescue them and the system erases their data and they are gone and if the player wants to re-make them or a replacement loved one they have to pay again.

This, also, strikes me as a "put it in once you've raised some cash" sort of thing, rather than a "raise some cash" sort of thing. Bearing that in mind, I'd handle this as a Nemesis-related Personal Contact, one who gives you Nemesis Missions as a "Help a Citizen"-style alternative to waiting for your Nemesis' Minions to ambush you. Later on, this could be leveraged to include "Contact in Peril" Nemesis Missions that feature said Personal Contact.

This and the use of your Hideout's Crime Computer to track your Nemesis would be tools designed to simplify the process of acquiring your Nemesis Missions; IMHO, that process needs simplification far more than it needs further complication (in the form of mission grinds aimed at earning some sort of "Nemesis Intel" that can be used to purchase Nemesis Missions).

Going a bit further afield, I'd also like to reintroduce some of the old "Research and Development" style of Crafting alongside the new "Mods and Fusion" Crafting by means of a Secret Identity system (or, more properly, a "day job" system that represents what your hero does when he isn't fighting crime); details on how I'd do this are still sketchy, and not particularly relevant to this particular topic except for two things: the inclusion of a Secret Identity for your character would provide another possible hook for creating new Nemesis Missions once the funds exist to do so; and the R&D-style Crafting could be used to Develop a Nemesis Clue, independent of whether you've waited the otherwise-required six hours between Nemesis Missions.

battybattybats wrote: »

* Nemesis Adventure Pack. Buy this for the ultimate customisable adventure where you and your Nemesis are the central feature! Choose from a list of set variables that will effect the Nemesis's dialogue, some locations and several key plot elements and then an adventure unfolds that includes using your hideout computer to analyze clues, protecting your secret identity if you have one, protecting your loved one if you purchased the loved one option, interacting with NPCs you get to name that are chosen from a set of pre-mades not all of who may survive the adventure. The ultimate adventure for Champions as things get personal!

Something like this, IMHO, is the Holy Grail of the Nemesis System: a Foundry-like setup that lets you devise your own Nemesis Missions and Adventure Packs. Definitely too resource-intensive for a fund-raising effort, and very definitely the main thing that I would want those funds spent on.

Another possible fundraising option to consider: replace the Nemesis Powersets with Archetypes. Introduce the concept of "Nemesis-only" Archetypes, bought in the C-Store at half cost when they're not made freely available to everyone. The initial set of "free for all" Nemesis Archetypes would start with one each of those corresponding to the existing Nemesis Powersets (this would simply be a renaming of the powersets to begin with; but later on, the powers and AI would be tailored to exactly match the Archetypes that they claim to be), plus the "free for all" Archetypes that don't have corresponding Powersets (these would require adding "Nemesis AI" code for each such Archetype).

All other existing Archetypes in the game would gradually be given "Nemesis AI" code and made available for use in the Nemesis Creator if they've already been purchased by the player; they might also be available for purchase by both Gold and Silver players as "Nemesis-only Archetypes" at a reduced cost. For instance, one of my characters is a Robin expy, and she has a Nighthawk-like Nemesis. I'm Gold; but I would pay money to be able to base that Nemesis on the Night Avenger Archetype. I can think of some cases where I'd want to use other Archetypes that wouldn't qualify as "free for all" as defined in the last paragraph (e.g., the Specialist), and would at least consider buying the Archetype in order to be able to use it in this way.

Any new Archetypes would include "Nemesis AI" code and free or purchasable availability from the get-go to avoid creating more of a backlog. The "free for all" Nemesis Archetypes that are not currently available for players (e.g., "the Claw") would be presented as placeholders for upcoming Archetypes and especially subject to revision as their player-accessible versions come out, and I would strongly recommend prioritizing the upcoming Archetypes toward getting these ones done first.

bobgreenwade

A lot of this is covered in my Arch-Nemesis suggestion thread (the link to which should be in my sig).

dantheiceman1

Make us pay for customizable Nemi lairs
I am not talking about a full foundry, but similar to our hideouts let us buy a lair for our nemi and somewhat customize it. There wouldn't have to be a lot of them...maybe 5 (Submarine Base, Techno Base, Moonbase, Temple Lair, and of course Volcano Cave Lair) and let us make superficial changes to their command room or throne room. The base would be a daily mission that we could trigger at a contact. We would then get to raid it for either mods, small amounts of Questionite and/or Nemi tokens. The end of the lair mission would culminate in an epic (scaled for team size) mission against the nemesis themselves! if you had purchased more than one nemesis then you would select which one you wanted to fight and maybe other nemesis could be in there working together to destroy you!

why stop at that? i'm no fan of the dafault minions and i have a TON of costumes made from playing with the creator, and one of the things that i WANT in this game is to have custom minions.

you should be able to buy/pay for custom minions

bobgreenwade

Actually I had several ideas for Nemesis lairs, including several possible locations in each Zone. Any given Lair location would always have the same basic layout, but could be customized in decor style, colors, and such. Then a special Mission involving the Lair could be added to UNITY Overwatch, the Alert system, or the Nemesis system (as an alternative to Deathray Demolition).

dataweaver42

I do like the idea of there being one to three special "Lair Alerts" that always feature Nemeses in something like a Hideout (but more spacious), and incorporating a Nemesis Lair raid into the daily UNITY Missions; what I don't want is a simple daily mission that's always there for you: if you have that much access to your Nemesis' Lair, why don't you just go there with the cops and arrest him?

The difficulty with Nemesis Lairs is that you'd need to make them first: that makes them something to do once there's momentum going on the Nemesis system, rather than something to do in order to build momentum for it. Minimum effort, maximum gain.

battybattybats

For monetising Nemesis why not have pay-to-unlock Nemesis missions?

Mini adventure packs? The adventure packs used to be bought to unlock right?

Throw in some legacy costume unlocks from old power replacers as drops.

After all there's only so many times we can do the same Nemesis missions. This would expand them and create opportunities to test out fixes and gradual expansions to the Nemesis system.

dataweaver42

Very true. I'm thinking of "Mission Packs" that are tied to and themed around your Nemesis' personality type; some might even unlock new Personality Types so that you can have somewhat more tightly-themed mission packs without having to worry that an inappropriate Nemesis will show up in them.

battybattybats

dataweaver42 wrote: »

Very true. I'm thinking of "Mission Packs" that are tied to and themed around your Nemesis' personality type; some might even unlock new Personality Types so that you can have somewhat more tightly-themed mission packs without having to worry that an inappropriate Nemesis will show up in them.

That's a great idea!

If they can make it so that you can have multiple Nemesis at any one time they could have you create a new Nemesis within specific parameters, some of which could be new parameters, specifically for the mini-adventure-pack in order to ensure it fits!

In effect giving a new nemesis mission tree starting point!