Lowbie in Alert

polishlightning

So I decided to take my new character into alerts. He started at level 7 because just talking to Defender, Drifter and Kodiak , and arresting (killing) 12 purple gang members got me up to that point. So from level 7 to 19 (current level) I only did about 10 missions and the rest were alerts.

There was only 1 failed Smash. Numerous times there were other players who were below level 10 and 3 times a Smash was completed with only 4 players. Thanks to the players who stuck around.

Not sure where all the hate for lowbies in alerts comes from. I'd be more angry with someone aggroing the side groups in recruiting drive.... which happened twice.

jonesing4

I have near-infinite anger towards people who aggro the side mobs in Recruiting Drive. I have started saying, at the start of every one, "Now remember, we don't have to kill everybody... let's do the first 3 guys and then pull the boss back." That works about half the time. I had 4 in a row earlier today where we had to clear out nearly the entire map because some people are too stupid to figure out the most basic of concepts.

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

smoochan

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

jonesing4 wrote: »

Short version: I agree; level matters, but player ability matters more. I'll take a 7 with common sense over a 35 who has no idea what he's doing, every time.

Note: Excessive qouting.

zahinder

If I don't know whether the person has common sense or not, I'd rather gamble on the 35.

rstzed

They should enable the rankings like they did for Red Winter. The end results for my run was about 550 for the top guy about 350 for my tank toon and the highest score of the other 3 was 75. I have no idea what level of the other 3 was and maybe there was a healer (points healed on others should be counted) but on the surface it looks like the other 3 were just along for the ride. We were successful by the way.

zahinder

I wish CO had a LFG system as good as CoH had.

One tank and one healer and a few DPS is great in an alert.

Five healers or tanks, not so much.

thatcursedwolf

zahinder wrote: »

I wish CO had a LFG system as good as CoH had.

I thought everyone did preforms in Pocket D or later DA to go in with a full group to avoid the LFG system.

smoochan

zahinder wrote: »

If I don't know whether the person has common sense or not, I'd rather gamble on the 35.

So you'd rather the 35 who aggros everything in sight and gets everyone whiped, simply because you don't know the level 7? Interesting.

Me personally, I prefer lower levels in my alerts. When it's a bunch of high levels, they're much less likely to notice just how awesome I am. I love it when the other 4 people are still killing their first group of mobs, by the time I've cleared the rest of the map. On top of making me feel like I've got a big fat mons, I also get the satisfaction of knowing that I pulled those people through the alert.

I too wish there was some sort of LFG system for alerts sometimes... so I could exclusively team with low levels. I've always been the one who wants to do the carrying, rather than get carried.

/coolheropose

zahinder

smoochan wrote: »

So you'd rather the 35 who aggros everything in sight and gets everyone whiped, simply because you don't know the level 7? Interesting.

No, but if my choice is between a level 35 character I don't know and a level 7 character I don't know, I'd rather pick the level 35 character. They are more likely to be someone who knows what they are doing and ALSO more likely to have decent tools to deal with play.

tangent90

zahinder wrote: »

No, but if my choice is between a level 35 character I don't know and a level 7 character I don't know, I'd rather pick the level 35 character. They are more likely to be someone who knows what they are doing and ALSO more likely to have decent tools to deal with play.

I basically never enter alerts before my character is 17, and only then if I provide enough DPS and have enough tools to survive for a decent amount of time if I get aggro.

While it's true you can complete the Smash if you've got 7s on the team, that's only so if you've got one or two players who can both dish out DPS and keep aggro and avoid having the 7s die constantly. I've been on so many alerts where I'm running a high-level support character trying to keep low level characters alive, or I'm constantly having to defend myself because I'm getting all that aggro from helping the rest of the team, that no one is actually able to do any damage.

The other thing that really bugs me is when someone bails after 1 minute, and we just barely fail beating the villain. I mean, come on: what's an extra minute on the alert? Half the time we'd succeed if everyone actually stayed and tried to win.

Although I, for one, wouldn't mind if they level-gated alerts to level 15. I think a lot of newbies try them when they first start the game not knowing what they're getting into. (I know I did.) I just got creamed when I tried Green Dragon at level 10. It just frustrates everyone when characters out of their depth get clobbered over and over.

smoochan

zahinder wrote: »

No, but if my choice is between a level 35 character I don't know and a level 7 character I don't know, I'd rather pick the level 35 character. They are more likely to be someone who knows what they are doing and ALSO more likely to have decent tools to deal with play.

The question isn't who you would choose though... seeing as you can't choose who you end up with in an alert with when you pug.

The question is, would you be in a better position with 02the 35 who doesn't know what they're doing, aggros all the mobs from the sides on recruiting drive, knocks bosses all over the place, or just stands there using their energy builder, bails after a minute etc.... or the level 7 who doesn't do any of that.

It illustrates the fact that low levels aren't the problem.

The actual problems that cause alerts to fail are:
- leechers
- players who don't know that you're not supposed to do X dumb thing that gets everyone killed
- players who don't know that you're not supposed to knock things that people need to kill quickly all over the place
- players who actively do X dumb thing, or knock things everywhere, because they are actively trying to sabatoge the alert for lols
- complete lack of a matchmaking system, resulting in groups that are completely unbalanced, i.e. gives you 4 supports and a tank in a timed alert
- people who bail on alerts because they press O and see that there are low levels present


Notice the first entry on the list. Leechers. Folks who either don't move at all, or who waddle forward and then just use their energy builder the entire alert. Frequently, these will be people repeatedly creating characters and then deleting them for the purpose of farming questionite. This activity heavily contributes to the perception that low levels perform poorly in alerts.

nepht

If you go into an alert without a team you have to accept that the luck of the draw will occur,
thats part of the charm of alerts.


*I see you got Caliga's hat as part of the divorce settlement Smoochan.*

nextnametaken

polishlightning wrote: »

Not sure where all the hate for lowbies in alerts comes from. I'd be more angry with someone aggroing the side groups in recruiting drive.... which happened twice.

Repetitive strain injuries (pdf)
Sick Worker Syndrome
Aggression-driven depression
I'm about to blow the whole $18 billion dollar game industry wide open with
revelations that the matrix equals madness and mood swings.

I'd write a book or make a video but, ow, RSI.
Here's remembering my good hand, you were the best...hand
Hurt just to find that video.

polishlightning

tangent90 wrote: »

I basically never enter alerts before my character is 17, and only then if I provide enough DPS and have enough tools to survive for a decent amount of time if I get aggro.

While it's true you can complete the Smash if you've got 7s on the team, that's only so if you've got one or two players who can both dish out DPS and keep aggro and avoid having the 7s die constantly. I've been on so many alerts where I'm running a high-level support character trying to keep low level characters alive, or I'm constantly having to defend myself because I'm getting all that aggro from helping the rest of the team, that no one is actually able to do any damage.

The character I did this with had AoPM, so just stepping into the alert he made the team better by adding +48 to each of my teammates stats. Pretty early on I took Lifedrain w/ Vamperic Sympathy, so not only am I healing myself, healing anyone who is close enough to me, but I'm also I'm damaging the boss.

Otherwise, if you're worried about keeping low level characters alive, you're wasting your time. You're better off keeping the highest DPS user alive. It only takes a second to revive and run back.

sekimen

My current contempt in Alerts is neither for lowbies, nor for people who excessively use KBs. I am currently raging at every single ranged character who refuses to get a threat wipe and kites the boss during the whole timed alert. The dump DPS takes because two melee characters need to keep running behind the boss is far greater than if you stood still and kept dying.

polishlightning

sekimen wrote: »

My current contempt in Alerts is neither for lowbies, nor for people who excessively use KBs. I am currently raging at every single ranged character who refuses to get a threat wipe and kites the boss during the whole timed alert. The dump DPS takes because two melee characters need to keep running behind the boss is far greater than if you stood still and kept dying.

Or just blocked until you lost aggro or if you have flight, fly straight up. Peoples alert IQ needs to increase.

variatas

polishlightning wrote: »

Or just blocked until you lost aggro or if you have flight, fly straight up. Peoples alert IQ needs to increase.

Never, EVER do that on Valerian Scarlet. The number of alerts I've failed because someone has drawn aggro and idiotically drawn her high into the air is aggravatingly large. Not every char has the points to get Nailed to the Ground very early.

roughbearmattach

nepht wrote: »

If you go into an alert without a team you have to accept that the luck of the draw will occur,
thats part of the charm of alerts.

This is part of the challenge of Alerts, in my opinion, too. When I play alerts with my SG, a group of 5 toons, all level 40, all reasonably good players, it is autowin every time. It gets boring.

PUG play is often surprising, frustrating, and entertaining. Heck, it is how I got into my current SG.

Don't knock it, so to speak.

smoochan

sekimen wrote: »

My current contempt in Alerts is neither for lowbies, nor for people who excessively use KBs. I am currently raging at every single ranged character who refuses to get a threat wipe and kites the boss during the whole timed alert. The dump DPS takes because two melee characters need to keep running behind the boss is far greater than if you stood still and kept dying.

I had a feeling I missed something on my list...

nepht wrote: »

*I see you got Caliga's hat as part of the divorce settlement Smoochan.*

That's not a hat, that's my official "Caliga Fan-Club Caliga Crown". I got it from a box of Caliga's Frosted Questionite Flakes.

Caliga get married? lol, harlots!

scorpagor

Fun times with Hi-Pan \o/



2 soldiers and 1 marksman

I was able to tank Hi-Pan during most of the battle, but that didn't prevent them from getting killed by the dragon every 20 seconds. It took a good 10 minutes but we made it.

polishlightning

I had a Soul Siphon with levels 7,9, and 10 this weekend, no 5th person. My character was the one this thread started was started about. He was level 20 when this happened. It took a little longer because two of the players decided to run off and attack the snakes springing up, no where near the boss who was dragged up front, but we completed it without issue.

kharma23

sekimen wrote: »

My current contempt in Alerts is neither for lowbies, nor for people who excessively use KBs. I am currently raging at every single ranged character who refuses to get a threat wipe and kites the boss during the whole timed alert. The dump DPS takes because two melee characters need to keep running behind the boss is far greater than if you stood still and kept dying.

This drives me nuts!

It's why I'm calling my next nemesis 'Alert Runner'

variatas

Not all AT's have access to a threat wipe, as far as I know. Though I think my personal pet peeve is more the people who fly in Valerian Scarlet alerts and get her out of range of everyone. Whiiich is why my newest character has a Rambow with Nailed to the Ground, despite being entirely ranged. :biggrin: Gotta help all the melee's stab things!

kenpojujitsu3

sekimen wrote: »

My current contempt in Alerts is neither for lowbies, nor for people who excessively use KBs. I am currently raging at every single ranged character who refuses to get a threat wipe and kites the boss during the whole timed alert. The dump DPS takes because two melee characters need to keep running behind the boss is far greater than if you stood still and kept dying.

Melee characters just need to generate more threat and tank better. /trollface

honestresearcher

My contempt for alerts with my elitist knowledge of big headedness knows that even as a freeform character you cant solo the Alert until you get around level 15. Everyone else is just useless because they are either one of: Too low level / Weak-Archetype / Archetype / Dumb / Leech / not participate at all because they know the solo-er has arrived to do it all for them...being a waste of space / Havent discovered what a keyboard is..

Lock em all out until level 20. That'll teach 'em...wasting everyone else's time is NOT cool.

Iv had it with people over level 30 who have their powerbuilder, blast attack....and actually...NO JOKE...have not found out how to pick more powers.
Iv even seem some people show up in Gravitars with Powerbuilder and T1 blast only.
THE SHAME!!!

chalupaoffury

I'd much rather get a team of all level 7s and 8s than another knocker that blows the nem henchmen into the crates and makes us fail, or another intentional kiter. I had a guy do it on purpose the other day, laughing the whole time. I think I see like 4-5 of em a day, when I'm farming alerts. That was the first and only time I've found myself wishing for open world pvp.

I dunno about level gating to 20, because you can't gate stupid, but I feel like the queue daemon could use a bit of help. When the same 4 lowbies are running alerts, and I keep alternating between getting 3 of em and a level 18, then being put with 4 30-35s? I feel like the fault is in the system.

honestresearcher

No but at least by level 20, i can solo it for sure thus dont have to bang my head against the horde of dumb slowing me down, and a larger portion of them surely by then, wont have no powers.


Lowbies cant rely on highby's forever...

.

thatcursedwolf

honestresearcher wrote: »

No but at least by level 20, i can solo it for sure thus dont have to bang my head against the horde of dumb slowing me down, and a larger portion of them surely by then, wont have no powers.


Lowbies cant rely on highby's forever...

.

If the choice is between lowbies or that attitude, I'll take the lowbies.

I don't have anyone yet that could actually solo an alert, for sure not the timed ones, but my dual pistols/devices recreation that came out on the other end of the power scale from their CoH counterpart can out-threat just about anything without a taunt effect and lead tempest with tread softly and BCR/RR makes for a solid enough alert tank even with an offensive passive up.

My point? If it looks like the rest of the team is taking damage they shouldn't, death blossom mode engaged if it's adds causing the issues or active offense and TGM tank the boss. What I don't do is berate, whine at/about, or gloat over the rest of the team. If they ask how I did that, I'll tell them, so far no one has asked. That character's alerts rarely fail. Ao'Igiveup excluded. Skarn's bane and ebon strike don't fit the character.

A community of this size doesn't have the luxury of vocal elitists. If the only thing a new person sees is lowbie hate and the only thing they get in chat is beratement for daring to ask an honest question, I do not fault them for uninstalling the game and never looking back. Until they raise the minimum level for queueing up, we'll have to deal with lowbies in alerts, and if you want them to stick around to be highbies, appearing to be polite would help facilitate that.

Oh, an FYI, this game's controller integration is rather good.

honestresearcher

thatcursedwolf wrote: »

If the choice is between lowbies or that attitude, I'll take the lowbies..

Their attitudes are worse than mine Why'd you think im telling you about it?

smoochan

honestresearcher wrote: »

[...]
Lowbies cant rely on highby's forever...

.

Luckily they won't have to. Smash's give xp, so soon enough those lowbies wont be lowbies anymore.

thearkady

I'd tend to say level gating at 15 might make sense - that's when everyone has three SS and ATs have gotten their passive and form by then, too.

The problem with that is: someone in their infinite lack of anything even remotely resembling the barest hint of something that might, with much giving the benefit of the doubt, be mistaken for something akin to wisdom decided players don't need an alternate mission levelling path from 6 to 15.

I don't want to see Westside again for... well, a long while, I'm sure.

Also, level gating really isn't a fix for player idiocy. Worst fail I saw today was Recruitment Drive with everyone 25+, because one idiot pulled practically every mob on the map into the fight with his "oh, I got aggro from the boss, I gotta run around like a headless chicken".

selphea

honestresearcher wrote: »

Iv even seem some people show up in Gravitars with Powerbuilder and T1 blast only.
THE SHAME!!!

I spam my T1 blast in Gravitar !

deviousi

selphea wrote: »

I spam my T1 blast in Gravitar !

Gravitar is just a punching bag. As long as you can recover most damage you take(aka Block her clearly labelled attacks), the only thing you have to worry about with Gravitar is the amount of endurance she has. If you must, crit-spam ultimately ruins this boss.
I just run up and spam Thundering Kicks and Dragon Kick and she can't even come close to dropping my health below half most of the time.

Problem with Lowbies in Alerts though isn't that they're a cripple on the whole team, it's just generally the Lowbies aren't experienced players and as such are not as effective in timed events as they could be - Even some "Highbies" suffer from this problem, hence you can't always rely on them.

zahinder

I'm generous -- my cut-off is level 10.

It takes maybe an hour to get to level 10 with a new character, if you are familiar with the game or otherwise clever.

At 10 you have your second SS. Archetypes have their passive, as should reasonable freeforms.

Personally, I am confidant that I can start making a decent contribution at level 10, whereas before that... eeenh.

deviousi

zahinder wrote: »

It takes maybe an hour to get to level 10 with a new character, if you are familiar with the game or otherwise clever.

Not even that long if your really know what you're doing. Usually I just tell people 11 or Higher simply because A. They could use the extra SS and B. so they're more familiar with how to play their class.
It really depends on the damage output of the characters though, especially those which suffer from poor DPS and rely on charging abilities for the most damage.

Even after clocking in nearly 380 hours, I try to avoid Smash alerts at least until level 15. The rest I can pretty much do right after the first couple of levels.

tripph

How do you find out a character's actual level in an Alert?

zahinder

Social panel. Default keybind is 'o'.

tripph

Thank you!