Compassion? and other questions for my healing tank

darkstarcrash

--Does Compassion proc off the "Mend" buff from Illumination? If so, it seems that it would stack pretty quickly in a group situation.

--How important is Crippling Challenge? In the build below I put it on my lunge so I could rank up Eruption. I see it has a big -dps debuff on your target, which I suppose is worth the 3 advantage points.

I have never played a tank before, in CoH or CO, so of course I decided to jump in with a high-concept Heavy Weapons/Healing tank to be run in hybrid mode. :eek:


War and Peace is an angel kicked out of heaven for falling in profane love with another angel, who now spends his time smiting evil and healing the righteous.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: War and Peace

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
Level 15: Presence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Martial Focus
Level 12: Finesse
Level 15: Healthy Mind
Level 18: Body and Mind
Level 21: Diplomatic

Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 6: Eruption (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Decimate (Crippling Challenge)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 20: Iniquity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Compassion
Level 26: Illumination (Brilliance)
Level 29: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Skewer (Rank 2, Rank 3, Follow Through)
Level 38: Ritual of Radiant Summoning (Unbound Ritual)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight
Level 35:

Specializations:
Constitution: Unyielding (1/2)
Constitution: Fuel My Fire (3/3)
Constitution: Resilient (1/2)
Constitution: Quick Healing (3/3)
Constitution: Armored (2/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Protector: Resolute (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Slaughter (2/3)
Warden: Elusive (1/2)
Warden: Tenacious (1/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

War and Peace will run in hybrid mode to get the healing bonus from superstats, so I took Bulwark from the Protector tree to gain threat.

My plan is to buy the 3 Samurai questionite secondaries for the damage bonus and switch in plain Block for solo play, while using the Armadillo secondary pieces for the damage resistance bonus when tanking.

I chose Parry with Elusive Monk advantage to layer dodge/avoidance on top of the damage resistance from Invuln and Armadillo gear, but I'm open to Energy Shield with Laser Knight if that would make him tankier.

War and Peace is currently level 15, fun to play but has energy woes -- note the lack of an energy superstat. I'm hoping that with 3 short cooldowns (Eruption, Decimate and Conviction) that MSA will help out, even with just a smattering of Int from talents/gear.

Would be happy to hear from more experienced tankers if this build will be viable. I intend to mostly group in basic alerts -- not going to try Gravitar, most likely.

falchoin

The Mend buff from Illumination only grants Compassion stacks when the Mend HoT heals you, not others. I recently found this out when playing my dps/support electric toon. Oh, and by heal I mean actual healing done. Compassion will not trigger from Mend when attempting to heal yourself at full health.

Assuming you can keep aggro, maintaining Compassion stacks should be easy so long as any supports you run with don't go crazy with bubbles. Otherwise you'll be forced to use Iniquity for self damage just so you can heal yourself and maintain Compassion stacks.

chovihano

I have 6 tanks at level 40 and while I have not had any complaints, I have trouble keeping aggro off of crit based DPSers. When I see that stream of crits start, I know I have to start using Crippling Challenge or I am going to lose aggro.

I think your build will work fine.

A couple of options that I have grown fond of for tanking are:
- Defiance instead of Invulnerability may help with your energy issues.
- Inertial Dampening Field (I usually have two toggles and just run the one for my current role), though without Compassion your energy issues may get worse.
- I recently have been selecting the Sentry Tree in place of the Warden tree for Sentry Aura and Perseverance.
- Because you have PRE as a super-stat, you may also want to take a look at Sentinel Tree. Sentinel Aura helps both with healing and aggro.

A note on Energy issues, I hate running out of Energy so much that I now always take REC as a secondary stat and I always make sure to have 2 or 3 other sources of energy such as a toggle form (like Compassion), a passive (like Defiance or Unstoppable), and and Energy Unlock (like MSA).

darkstarcrash

Yeah, i might look into Defiance instead of Invuln, since I'm PSSing Con anyway. I guess I should have looked more carefully at Mecha Teddy's scaling thread stickied above.

Sentinel tree doesn't look like it would do anything for War and Peace outside of Sentinel Aura, since his heal-other is non-critting and he has no holds.

Sentry tree looks good -- in fact, more on concept for W&P, actually. I think I just took the Warden tree because "Best Defense" will let me hit harder -- which will help with holding aggro -- and I liked Warden Mastery, since I will probably be spamming Cleave most of the time anyway.

darkstarcrash

I just gave Defiance a quick tryout in the Training Room. I used team size=3, normal Escaped Prisoners (happened to be in the desert). Note: I still don't have the Armadillo gear for the 25% damage resist. I ran the Battlestation twice each with Invuln rank 3 and Defiance rank 2 and 3.

Energy management was definitely better, but OMG I was much squishier.

With rank 2 Defiance, in the largest group of henchmen/villains my health dropped to about 20% at the beginning of the fight, settled at about 50% with me hitting Conviction almost on cooldown. Defiance rank 3 was a little better but health still hovered at 50% for most of the fight.

With Invuln rank 3 I was never in danger: my health probably never dropped below 90%. I was surprised what a huge difference the flat damage reduction makes, even at my low gearing levels.

In fact, the better energy return from Defiance was pretty much negated by needing to use Conviction so frequently.

So I 'm sticking with Invuln, and will just have to work around energy issues.

chovihano

Invulnerability is better than Defiance for minions but I like Defiance better for bosses. The last time I ran TT I didn't block any of his big attacks as they couldn't bring me below half anyway.

Invulnerability is so good against minions because it has a flat damage reduction (which Defiance does not have) in addition to a percentage reduction. IDF makes up for this loss, however (as above), it may make energy issues worse.

Force powers can help with energy too. Block taps with Force Sheath, for example, generate energy. Also, I think I get energy from Mend (Illumination) from Sentinel Tree's Rejuvenated.

I hope some of that helps.

kikipuppet

darkstarcrash wrote: »

Yeah, i might look into Defiance instead of Invuln, since I'm PSSing Con anyway. I guess I should have looked more carefully at Mecha Teddy's scaling thread stickied above.

Sentinel tree doesn't look like it would do anything for War and Peace outside of Sentinel Aura, since his heal-other is non-critting and he has no holds.

Sentry tree looks good -- in fact, more on concept for W&P, actually. I think I just took the Warden tree because "Best Defense" will let me hit harder -- which will help with holding aggro -- and I liked Warden Mastery, since I will probably be spamming Cleave most of the time anyway.

Sentinel tree can be amazing especially if you use sentinel mastery and a aoe stun like thunderclap or tk maelstrom... 2% per target per second healed from any dmg being done, so 5 targets is 10% health per second...this is healing is done partywide on anyone who is damaging the group of mobs you just stunned and is not based on pre but on the individuals health amounts also increasing hold duration in sentinel will increase the stun time..with no int and cd reduction gear you can get both of those stuns to being close to the same stun time as cooldown time for the skill....Healing does add quite a bit of threat in addition to dmg and that is healing that is constantly done and works well beyond range if someone accidentally gets knocked into a far away group of mobs often times they will immediately target you so long as no dmg was done to them. Sorry for the rambling and the late reply, just offering my two cents and a incoherent flurry of sentences

superalfgorn

Compassion works really well with sentinel aura... giving you full stacks easily.
Also if you run PRE as a PSS you can use the protector role for threat and get nice bonus healing. Additionally the presence spec tree gives you a nice mix of self healing, offence and defence.

As suggested above Defiance is better for energy return and for bosses, but without primary CON maybe you should run Invulnerability. The Force Shield with advantage is nice for energy return, as well continuously gaining stacks of compassion from the Sentinel aura.

The Sentry tree sinergizes well with the sentinel one via the continuous healing crits.

Super Stats:
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Strength (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Devastator
Level 6: Covert Ops Training
Level 9: Paramilitary Training
Level 12: Discipline Training
Level 15: Survival Training
Level 18: Shrug It Off
Level 21: Physical Conditioning

Powers:
Level 1: Radiance
Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 6: Decimate (Crippling Challenge)
Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Conviction (Rank 2, Reverence)
Level 14: Compassion
Level 17: Illumination (Rank 2, Brilliance)
Level 20: Skewer (Rank 2, Rank 3, Follow Through)
Level 23: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Resurgence (Evanescent Emergence)
Level 32: Aggressor (Rank 2)
Level 35: Ritual of Radiant Summoning (Rank 2, Unbound Ritual)
Level 38: Vicious Descent

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Presence: Selfless Ally (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (3/3)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Sentinel: Eternal Spring (2/2)
Sentinel: Caregiver (2/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (1/3)
Sentry: Twist Fate (2/2)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Fortify (2/2)
Sentry: Reinforce (2/2)
Mastery: Presence Mastery (1/1)

darkstarcrash

Wow, lots to think about here. Thanks for the continued posts.

War and Peace is now 32. After testing in the powerhouse, I found that Parry/Elusive Monk is way too dependent on Dex to be worth taking. I took Skewer at 32 while I ponder a block replace.

I decided to finish leveling W&P with the Warden spec tree -- bumping up my offense will make the levels go faster -- and plan on swapping in Sentinel and/or Sentry in a Retcon. Superalfgorn's build looks really close to what I'll end up with, although I definitely need Iniquity.

As far as gameplay, War and Peace has been a blast. Very sturdy solo -- I've soloed Teleios Tower and Burial Cave so far, both in hybrid role with Armadillo secondaries.

In alerts, I switch from hybrid role to tank role if I'm having trouble holding aggro. Bulwark does not bump up the threat to Tank levels, although it often is enough if I'm getting healing aggro as well. Mixing heals and smiting is a lot of fun, and he looks good doing both.

agentnx5

Glad to see you're having fun with your theme build

I've been watching the discussion and it's given me an idea... how to improve PRE mastery. I'll probably put it in the suggestion's forum when all done.