Oh wait.. it's been 6 months and there has BEEN no work. Reality realized.
This type of attitude is one of the major reasons these forums have been permeated with so much stupidity over the past couple of years.
This constant need to be fed information from the devs is both absurd and unrealistic. Always has been, always will be. I want new stuff to do as much as anyone else here, but none of this ******** and complaining will get anything done any faster and it won't solicit the response you're looking for.
This type of attitude is one of the major reasons these forums have been permeated with so much stupidity over the past couple of years.
This constant need to be fed information from the devs is both absurd and unrealistic. Always has been, always will be. I want new stuff to do as much as anyone else here, but none of this ******** and complaining will get anything done any faster and it won't solicit the response you're looking for.
I think most would be fine with A response period.
The foreman and all the workers can be invisible for all I care. I'd be happy if a single box came rolling off the assembly line.... [insert lockbox joke here, then cry].
We got VIbora bay and Celestial set within the first year. Then adventure packs.. then the smaller comic series.. then the absurdly smaller alerts.. then the even more absurdly small "one new mission"... then the absurdity of nothing.
I personnally can't wait for the island of Dr Destroyer!
You may think that CO has been abandonned by Cryptic, but that's only your opinion, it's not a fact. Just because I look outside my window and it's dark doesn't mean the sun ceased to exist!
We got VIbora bay and Celestial set within the first year. Then adventure packs.. then the smaller comic series.. then the absurdly smaller alerts.. then the even more absurdly small "one new mission"... then the absurdity of nothing.
And if we complain about the same damn thing for 2 ****ing years (something PROMISED to us may i remind you) then perhaps it's not us .. its you.
A few things you left out of your timeframe include:
The CO and Cryptic reins have been passed around a few times since VB happened.
The promise of more communication was made by someone that probably doesn't even work at Cryptic anymore. (I don't remember who "Archived Post" is these days. I want to say it was Bill.)
When has any previously made promised been faithfully kept whenever the reins were passed?
Okay, tacofoods, are you being obtuse, or is this some strange new method of trolling? That UNTIL Report was filed last July. I'm willing to cut the devs some slack, because I'm not sure we even have any working full-time on our game; my hope is that a couple of months after NWO goes live, we'll get some people back, and then see some new stuff. But even the rosiest of glasses don't let me see what you're claiming.
Just because you look out your window and it's dark doesn't prove the Sun does exist either - it merely proves that if the Sun does still exist, it's not shining on you right now.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I am a consumer NOT an investor. My product is suffering. Period. I dont care what happens behind the scenes but if you put out a ****ty product I stop buying.
IF I were an investor I'd be even MORE pissed, as not only is there the social contract your Executive directors promised of "more communication and response to players", now there's the fiscal responsibility to inform me that my investment is in good hands.
- -
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig. I still wont kiss it.
Okay, tacofoods, are you being obtuse, or is this some strange new method of trolling? That UNTIL Report was filed last July. I'm willing to cut the devs some slack, because I'm not sure we even have any working full-time on our game; my hope is that a couple of months after NWO goes live, we'll get some people back, and then see some new stuff. But even the rosiest of glasses don't let me see what you're claiming.
Just because you look out your window and it's dark doesn't prove the Sun does exist either - it merely proves that if the Sun does still exist, it's not shining on you right now.
Just because I write things you don't agree with doesnt mean you have to start calling names. Or is it a trollish attempt to have this thread closed?
Anyway I don't know why you decided to join the hordes of doomsayers, but I'm baffled by that recent change.
I'm certain 2013 will be an amazing year for CO. After all, I think I read somewhere that the game made crazy money since it went f2p, so while cryptic hired more devs and made new plans for the game, it makes sense to assume we'll see a lot of new things next year. A new zone probably takes time to make, you know.
I personnally can't wait for the island of Dr Destroyer!
You may think that CO has been abandonned by Cryptic, but that's only your opinion, it's not a fact. Just because I look outside my window and it's dark doesn't mean the sun ceased to exist!
many of us HAVE been patient and we have been provided crap for a long while.
Though as i have in other threads, i do agree with jonsills in waiting till neverwinter to come out. But it is harder and harder to do so when we keep getting the crap we have lately.
After all, I think I read somewhere that the game made crazy money since it went f2p, so while cryptic hired more devs and made new plans for the game, it makes sense to assume we'll see a lot of new things next year. A new zone probably takes time to make, you know.
That was EARLY 2011. This is close 2012.
Have you seen MORE development after 2011 .. or less?
I didn't say doom.. I said "I an going to call Champions Online devs on their bull and stop accepting crap excuses why they don't do the job they promised."
I can almost guaruntee the game's being sold off as we speak. There's no other business reason to hold "development' if there were any so close to the chest. PERHAPS the sale was inturrupted by the sales potential when CoX closed.
Your optimism, while refreshing and partially appreciated, is disconcerting. I remember when I was exactly where you are. Saying the exact "Believe in the future" crap. This IS the future.. I believed.. I was wrong
I am a consumer NOT an investor. My product is suffering. Period. I dont care what happens behind the scenes but if you put out a ****ty product I stop buying. Period.
IF I were an investor I'd be even MORE pissed, as not only is there the social contract your Executive directors promised of "more communication and response to players", mow there's the fiscal responsibility to inform me that my investment is in good hands.
- -
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig. I still wont kiss it.
What do investors have to do with any of this? This is why Straw Man arguments are ridiculous. What is equally ridiculous is expecting Cryptic to adhere to nearly three year old promises made by someone who isn't in charge anymore.
I think most would be fine with A response period.
Even if we do get a response the forums will maintain the status quo and we'll go right back to groaning and complaining about how said response was somehow subpar and/or didn't address the "right issues". Happens every single time.
Even if we do get a response the forums will maintain the status quo and we'll go right back to groaning and complaining about how said response was somehow subpar and/or didn't address the "right issues". Happens every single time.
If Cryptic does the same thing and expect a different result.. who are the sane and who the insane?
What do investors have to do with any of this? This is why Straw Man arguments are ridiculous. What is equally ridiculous is expecting Cryptic to adhere to nearly three year old promises made by someone who isn't in charge anymore.
"The company was sold two times".. that excuse only works on the investor level. NOT to the consumer. Companies change hands all the time and are still required and expected to perform and provide quality product. AS an investor.. I'd be very wary that this "bold change in leadership" is simply more of the same. So both consumer confidence is low and investor confidence even lower.
What do investors have to do with any of this? This is why Straw Man arguments are ridiculous. What is equally ridiculous is expecting Cryptic to adhere to nearly three year old promises made by someone who isn't in charge anymore.
Even if we do get a response the forums will maintain the status quo and we'll go right back to groaning and complaining about how said response was somehow subpar and/or didn't address the "right issues". Happens every single time.
at least it would be something. For me and several i talked too, it would be enough. I will not say how anyone else will react because I dont speak for them, and I am not psychic.
A few things you left out of your timeframe include:
The CO and Cryptic reins have been passed around a few times since VB happened.
The promise of more communication was made by someone that probably doesn't even work at Cryptic anymore. (I don't remember who "Archived Post" is these days. I want to say it was Bill.)
When has any previously made promised been faithfully kept whenever the reins were passed?
Jack Emmert, who is the CEO of Cryptic at the present date. He said he was going to "press the gas" on communication.
Guys, I totally promise devs are working hard to make us some totally awesome cool stuff for the new year very soon!
You see, right now, our two main developers- Elvis Presley and Sasquatch have been busy fighting the Illuminati in Atlantis to save the Earth from crashing into Nibiru and creating a New World Order.
Seriously, if you're going to make up lies about the devs, at least make them amusing. You guys making constant excuses are a sad lot. I don't put my money into 'hopes' and 'faith' unless I'm at Church.
and that is not our fault so I can see why people have been getting so upset and angry by feeling ignored.
Nobody said it was the player's fault to begin with, although I do feel that some devs choose not to post very often because they don't want to deal with the hailstorm of idiocy that usually comes afterwards.
If Cryptic does the same thing and expect a different result.. who are the sane and who the insane?
The regularly performed ritual of asking for dev input around here almost always yields the same result yet the ritual is constantly repeated. See what I'm getting at here?
Okay, tacofoods, are you being obtuse, or is this some strange new method of trolling? That UNTIL Report was filed last July. I'm willing to cut the devs some slack, because I'm not sure we even have any working full-time on our game; my hope is that a couple of months after NWO goes live, we'll get some people back, and then see some new stuff. But even the rosiest of glasses don't let me see what you're claiming.
Just because you look out your window and it's dark doesn't prove the Sun does exist either - it merely proves that if the Sun does still exist, it's not shining on you right now.
Holy crap! Is that Jon almost being critical of Cryptic? Pinch me, I must be dreaming.
Guys, I totally promise devs are working hard to make us some totally awesome cool stuff for the new year very soon!
You see, right now, our two main developers- Elvis Presley and Sasquatch have been busy fighting the Illuminati in Atlantis to save the Earth from crashing into Nibiru and creating a New World Order.
Seriously, if you're going to make up lies about the devs, at least make them amusing. You guys making constant excuses are a sad lot. I don't put my money into 'hopes' and 'faith' unless I'm at Church.
Kojiru, what I am is realistic. There is a middle ground, you know, between fawning adoration and total contempt; I like to dwell there, where there is a realistic level of hope that things may improve. It's better for my blood pressure than taking sides, especially siding with the haters. (I'm not very good at hating anyway. Seems to be part of the Asperger's thing.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Guys, I know this is a hot point of discussion, but this thread is getting dangerously close to a flame war. Slightly less so now than a few pages back, but it's in dangerous territory. Please keep it civil, I'd much appreciate it.
Guys, I know this is a hot point of discussion, but this thread is getting dangerously close to a flame war. Slightly less so now than a few pages back, but it's in dangerous territory. Please keep it civil, I'd much appreciate it.
Really? I didnt think it was getting that bad...guess I must be getting used to that kind'a stuff.
No, I'm realistic. It's my duty to be so as a cynic.
There is a middle ground, you know, between fawning adoration and total contempt; I like to dwell there,
Except everything I've seen from you has been closer the former rather than anywhere even leagues of the latter.
where there is a realistic level of hope that things may improve. It's better for my blood pressure than taking sides, especially siding with the haters. (I'm not very good at hating anyway. Seems to be part of the Asperger's thing.)
What you call "haters" I see to be people frustrated with their neglect from Cryptic.
If Cryptic really were hard at work on content for CO, don't you think they would mention something about it on the website or in the forums in an attempt to prevent this type of doomsaying and negativity? TT just dropped into the thread to admonish us regarding the negativity, but added nothing positive to the debate. So, either he doesn't know, or can't say.
Either way, it's becoming more difficult to remain positive about my favorite MMO.
You have 3 years of history to look bac to. If you want to prove you can change, then BE the change. Truth is, if they had something super awesome, we'd have heard of it.
What is/was on PTS:
Telepathy
Bikes
New Rampage Event
If they tout this as "new content they were hard at work on the last 4 months" remember.. this was bull****. You heard it here first.
That's right, I remember now. Though my point still stands. Personnel changes over the years have lead to a drop in communication.
Actually, your point does not remain relevant if it was Jack Emmert that said this. He is the CEO. If he said he wants there to be more communication and then hires a new employee, they don't get to ignore what he said he wants just because they were hired after he said it.
Nobody said it was the player's fault to begin with, although I do feel that some devs choose not to post very often because they don't want to deal with the hailstorm of idiocy that usually comes afterwards.
That's kind of too bad for them. They may not realize it, and I don't think you do either, but a large part of their job is customer service. Working on a MMO is providing entertainment for others in exchange for their money. If the customers are unhappy with the product, someone should be trying to find out why and putting out fires. You don't just ignore it until it all burns down.
If you people have no hope for the future of this game, and are even so petty that you voice HOPE that Neverwinter faisl, I think it's time for you to leave.
Hoping a game that Cryptic is working on fails is just a sign of deeper issues than annoyance at a game.
It's time for the haters to go. leave the game for the true believers to enjoy. There must be a game out there that meets your lofty standards. Leave the game for us schlubs who enjoy what we have, and are willing to wait for improvements.
" (This **** here has soured me on even trying NWO, because I almost hope it flops so they can't keep stealing CO's resources and income for it and whatever else - I went from intrigued to bitter and almost wanting it to bomb just out of spite, which is.. sad).
Dude you just posted about bombing a game. A balanced judge of anything you are not.
@bluegrassbeast
I agree with alot of your views. I went from going OH NEVERWINTER LOOKS AWESOME, to being extremely bitter. While I dont want it to bomb...okay maybe a little out of bitterness in hopes we'd get some of our Devs back, but I am just settling on not playing it.
I DO want Cryptic to succeed, I do, I am just tired of us being the game that suffers.
I don't hope NWN fails but, I don't think it'll do as well as it could and I'll laugh if it doesn't because part of why games do well is the rep that their creators make for themselves with their earlier games.
The CEO of Cryptic has said in interviews that you can get away with putting out an incomplete game and then getting paid to finish it.
He's also said that it's not worth it to keep trying to innovate with a game because the game will always be judged by how it was on release day.
These two comments put together kinda say that Cryptic thinks it's okay to put out unfinished games and them just leave them as is. He's also stated in interviews that he's responsible for CO only being a half finished game. His claiming responsibility for it would be great if he'd do something about it like finishing the incomplete features of CO but, all things indicate he has no interest in doing that and it's pretty easy to see it's leaving a sour taste in the mouths of players.
I also have to question the wisdom of pissing off the players when a company relies on word of mouth from it's players as much, if not more, than it does on advertising to get people to play their games. Strategies that like can result in their fourth game that they're already working on being dead before it even comes out simply because they'll have trashed their rep enough that it won't have enough people playing to sustain it.
Hoping a game that Cryptic is working on fails is just a sign of deeper issues than annoyance at a game.
A sign of neglect from the company towards both, the game and us as costumers (and yes, when this company has shown so little respect for us as costumers as to claim a thing like the chat-ban feature, for example, is "working as intended" it is a sign of neglect not only of the game but also of their costumers themselves and disrespect towards us as well). And no one is annoyed at the game, we're annoyed at the company (hence, the feelings of resentment toward it, going so far as to some people hoping that their other games will fail).
It's time for the haters to go. leave the game for the true believers to enjoy. There must be a game out there that meets your lofty standards. Leave the game for us schlubs who enjoy what we have, and are willing to wait for improvements.
There are no "haters" here. People that trully "hate" this game or company are too busy playing other games and bad mouthing Crytpic elsewhere when the name comes up to bother posting here. And believe is not a requirement to play and enjoy a game. It isn't a religion, it is a game.
Also, these aren't "lofty" standards, they are normal, simple standards that are actually below what we can expect from most other game companies.
If you people have no hope for the future of this game, and are even so petty that you voice HOPE that Neverwinter faisl, I think it's time for you to leave.
Hoping a game that Cryptic is working on fails is just a sign of deeper issues than annoyance at a game.
It's time for the haters to go. leave the game for the true believers to enjoy. There must be a game out there that meets your lofty standards. Leave the game for us schlubs who enjoy what we have, and are willing to wait for improvements.
If I didn't know any better (that Cryptic seems to completely ignore everything that goes on here) I'd almost suspect you of astroturfing.
I don't know that Cryptic should be putting all its eggs in the NW basket, given how glutted the market for Fantasy MMOs is already.
Plus also given the fact that the game will be based on the least popular and most hated (not by all, but significant number) edition of D&D in the history of D&D, which is already on its way out given that WoC is already working on a 5th edition that's (apparently) going to do away with most of 4e (since so many people hated it). Which IMO pretty much puts a damper on how many D&D fans can be expected to flock to this one game based on a soon to be obsolete edition of D&D.
That will be a certainty if Cryptic continues to neglect it.
And I have been enjoying the heck out of it, which only makes me all the more frustrated by Cryptic's aforementioned neglect. Especially after a certain other game I enjoyed immensely got axed.
Plus also given the fact that the game will be based on the least popular and most hated (not by all, but significant number) edition of D&D in the history of D&D...
And have you paid attention to what the complaints are?
Old-school gamers are complaining because the game is structured too much like an MMO.
(In Penny Arcade, Tycho knows that Gabe has arrived as a gamer because now he has an old edition of D&D to favor, and a new version to hate and deride...)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
And have you paid attention to what the complaints are?
Old-school gamers are complaining because the game is structured too much like an MMO.
I dunno about that. It felt too miniatures wargamey to me though with an overemphasis on miniatures and their... movement! Certain monsters and characters got abilities dominated by how many squares they or others moved. Yes, yes, D&D grew out of miniature wargaming, but that's no reason to take it back. And the classes? Honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between any of them anymore... all of them got similar abilities at the same levels with only flavor text to claim that they were "different." Even MMOs have differences in their classes. Then there was that abhorrent skill system from Star Wars Saga Edition that I absolutely hated because I couldn't custom tailor it at all. Then of course (another mechanic I hated from SW Saga) there were the self-heals which made clerics utterly pointless (but since they were doing the same thing everyone else was, I guess the designers failed to notice this).
And then of course there was that abortion that they replaced Forgotten Realms with.....
I dunno about that. It felt too miniatures wargamey to me though with an overemphasis on miniatures and their... movement! Certain monsters and characters got abilities dominated by how many squares they or others moved. Yes, yes, D&D grew out of miniature wargaming, but that's no reason to take it back. And the classes? Honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between any of them anymore... all of them got similar abilities at the same levels with only flavor text to claim that they were "different." Even MMOs have differences in their classes. Then there was that abhorrent skill system from Star Wars Saga Edition that I absolutely hated because I couldn't custom tailor it at all. Then of course (another mechanic I hated from SW Saga) there were the self-heals which made clerics utterly pointless (but since they were doing the same thing everyone else was, I guess the designers failed to notice this).
And then of course there was that abortion that they replaced Forgotten Realms with.....
Pretty much. The game being structured too much like an MMO wasn't the only complaint people had. I never got the chance to try it out myself, since I haven't played PnPs in YEARS, but I did get a copy soon after release to check out what they had done to the game and it being structured too much like an MMO was the least of my concerns.
I may have liked a couple of things here or there I could have used in my own games* had I still played, but mostly I felt that the game was too streamlined (I liked the idea of streamlining a bit, but felt they went too over board with it to the point where it limited customization way too much), yet over complicated at the same time by shoehorning a complete power system to every single class just to make them on par with eachother, then bloating the game with a lot of useless copies of the same abilities but with tiny variations and such. Plus a bunch of other stuff I can't remember off the bat.
All in all, I felt that it was the most "different" and the least "D&D-like" edition of the game. And I'm not even an "editions fan" and never been. I just tend to use what I like/want how I like/want. But this particular edition just didnt "feel" like D&D to me anymore.
*I never actually played games as published per se, but tended to play homebrewed or heavily modified systems with expanded options custom fitted to my campaigns
Yeah, I'm not an editions fan either. I liked 1 thru 3.*. But I couldn't find any love for 4. Considering that 5 looks fairly promising, I'll simply stick 4 where I stick Star Trek: Enterprise and Highlander 2, in "Does Not Exist" territory.
Not gonna lie.. i hope Neverwinter bombs. I hope it bombs so bad that Cryptic NEVER goes back to fantasy lore MMOs.
Neverwinter wont bomb. CO is the biggest bomb as far a Cryptic goes and thats sorta popular.
City of Heroes , Champions Online , Star Trek online ( Trek is Perfect Worlds biggest mmo now) .Cryptic has yet to make a MMO that bombs and given the combination of Cryptic, free to play and the Dungeons and Dragons IP it might topple Star Trek as Cryptic's biggest ever hit.
All this DOOOOOM about how **** Cryptic is and all they ever do is churn out hit mmo after hit mmo.
All I can say to any Cryptic dev out there is not all your playerbase hates you. Some of us actually do like the work you do.
Apart from GMC he needs foam fingered. Breaking PvP like that XD
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Given that one of the most popular complaints about 4e was that it was too much like an MMO, I suspect NWN will be just fine.
I find edition wars and whiny gamer memes tiresome. No editions are perfect. Like 2e, 3.x was burdened down with a lot of inferior products and bloated numbers of OP options -- it had become a chore to GM well before 4e was announced -- and even though there were things about 4e I didn't care for (eg. wizards felt too similar to other classes, healing was too trivial, they jettisoned everything I ever wrote for the Realms ), I still had a great time playing it. And Neverwinter in 4e is a very interesting place and Cryptic should do all right by it.
On the other hand, Cryptic's recent treatment of CO --the lack of communication most of all -- doesn't encourage me to invest my time and energy into NWN, and that's a shame, as I did want to tinker with the Foundry and come up with some quests based on Old Empires lore. However even if my worst fears about CO are realized, I do hope NWN is a big success and keeps some of my friends at Cryptic employed and happy for years to come.
Comments
This type of attitude is one of the major reasons these forums have been permeated with so much stupidity over the past couple of years.
This constant need to be fed information from the devs is both absurd and unrealistic. Always has been, always will be. I want new stuff to do as much as anyone else here, but none of this ******** and complaining will get anything done any faster and it won't solicit the response you're looking for.
I think most would be fine with A response period.
We got VIbora bay and Celestial set within the first year. Then adventure packs.. then the smaller comic series.. then the absurdly smaller alerts.. then the even more absurdly small "one new mission"... then the absurdity of nothing.
Show me the receipts and I"ll show you the money.
And if we complain about the same damn thing for 2 ****ing years (something PROMISED to us may i remind you) then perhaps it's not us .. its you.
Exactly......
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Our devs already stated what they are working on in the until thing report, here : http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=155131
I personnally can't wait for the island of Dr Destroyer!
You may think that CO has been abandonned by Cryptic, but that's only your opinion, it's not a fact. Just because I look outside my window and it's dark doesn't mean the sun ceased to exist!
A few things you left out of your timeframe include:
When has any previously made promised been faithfully kept whenever the reins were passed?
Just because you look out your window and it's dark doesn't prove the Sun does exist either - it merely proves that if the Sun does still exist, it's not shining on you right now.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
IF I were an investor I'd be even MORE pissed, as not only is there the social contract your Executive directors promised of "more communication and response to players", now there's the fiscal responsibility to inform me that my investment is in good hands.
- -
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig. I still wont kiss it.
Just because I write things you don't agree with doesnt mean you have to start calling names. Or is it a trollish attempt to have this thread closed?
Anyway I don't know why you decided to join the hordes of doomsayers, but I'm baffled by that recent change.
I'm certain 2013 will be an amazing year for CO. After all, I think I read somewhere that the game made crazy money since it went f2p, so while cryptic hired more devs and made new plans for the game, it makes sense to assume we'll see a lot of new things next year. A new zone probably takes time to make, you know.
many of us HAVE been patient and we have been provided crap for a long while.
Though as i have in other threads, i do agree with jonsills in waiting till neverwinter to come out. But it is harder and harder to do so when we keep getting the crap we have lately.
That was EARLY 2011. This is close 2012.
Have you seen MORE development after 2011 .. or less?
I didn't say doom.. I said "I an going to call Champions Online devs on their bull and stop accepting crap excuses why they don't do the job they promised."
I can almost guaruntee the game's being sold off as we speak. There's no other business reason to hold "development' if there were any so close to the chest. PERHAPS the sale was inturrupted by the sales potential when CoX closed.
Your optimism, while refreshing and partially appreciated, is disconcerting. I remember when I was exactly where you are. Saying the exact "Believe in the future" crap. This IS the future.. I believed.. I was wrong
What do investors have to do with any of this? This is why Straw Man arguments are ridiculous. What is equally ridiculous is expecting Cryptic to adhere to nearly three year old promises made by someone who isn't in charge anymore.
Even if we do get a response the forums will maintain the status quo and we'll go right back to groaning and complaining about how said response was somehow subpar and/or didn't address the "right issues". Happens every single time.
If Cryptic does the same thing and expect a different result.. who are the sane and who the insane?
"The company was sold two times".. that excuse only works on the investor level. NOT to the consumer. Companies change hands all the time and are still required and expected to perform and provide quality product. AS an investor.. I'd be very wary that this "bold change in leadership" is simply more of the same. So both consumer confidence is low and investor confidence even lower.
at least it would be something. For me and several i talked too, it would be enough. I will not say how anyone else will react because I dont speak for them, and I am not psychic.
Jack Emmert, who is the CEO of Cryptic at the present date. He said he was going to "press the gas" on communication.
That's right, I remember now. Though my point still stands. Personnel changes over the years have lead to a drop in communication.
and that is not our fault so I can see why people have been getting so upset and angry by feeling ignored.
You see, right now, our two main developers- Elvis Presley and Sasquatch have been busy fighting the Illuminati in Atlantis to save the Earth from crashing into Nibiru and creating a New World Order.
Seriously, if you're going to make up lies about the devs, at least make them amusing. You guys making constant excuses are a sad lot. I don't put my money into 'hopes' and 'faith' unless I'm at Church.
Nobody said it was the player's fault to begin with, although I do feel that some devs choose not to post very often because they don't want to deal with the hailstorm of idiocy that usually comes afterwards.
The regularly performed ritual of asking for dev input around here almost always yields the same result yet the ritual is constantly repeated. See what I'm getting at here?
Holy crap! Is that Jon almost being critical of Cryptic? Pinch me, I must be dreaming.
+1
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Really? I didnt think it was getting that bad...guess I must be getting used to that kind'a stuff.
No, I'm realistic. It's my duty to be so as a cynic.
Except everything I've seen from you has been closer the former rather than anywhere even leagues of the latter.
What you call "haters" I see to be people frustrated with their neglect from Cryptic.
Either way, it's becoming more difficult to remain positive about my favorite MMO.
What is/was on PTS:
Telepathy
Bikes
New Rampage Event
If they tout this as "new content they were hard at work on the last 4 months" remember.. this was bull****. You heard it here first.
Actually, your point does not remain relevant if it was Jack Emmert that said this. He is the CEO. If he said he wants there to be more communication and then hires a new employee, they don't get to ignore what he said he wants just because they were hired after he said it.
That's kind of too bad for them. They may not realize it, and I don't think you do either, but a large part of their job is customer service. Working on a MMO is providing entertainment for others in exchange for their money. If the customers are unhappy with the product, someone should be trying to find out why and putting out fires. You don't just ignore it until it all burns down.
Hoping a game that Cryptic is working on fails is just a sign of deeper issues than annoyance at a game.
It's time for the haters to go. leave the game for the true believers to enjoy. There must be a game out there that meets your lofty standards. Leave the game for us schlubs who enjoy what we have, and are willing to wait for improvements.
Dude you just posted about bombing a game. A balanced judge of anything you are not.
I agree with alot of your views. I went from going OH NEVERWINTER LOOKS AWESOME, to being extremely bitter. While I dont want it to bomb...okay maybe a little out of bitterness in hopes we'd get some of our Devs back, but I am just settling on not playing it.
I DO want Cryptic to succeed, I do, I am just tired of us being the game that suffers.
The CEO of Cryptic has said in interviews that you can get away with putting out an incomplete game and then getting paid to finish it.
He's also said that it's not worth it to keep trying to innovate with a game because the game will always be judged by how it was on release day.
These two comments put together kinda say that Cryptic thinks it's okay to put out unfinished games and them just leave them as is. He's also stated in interviews that he's responsible for CO only being a half finished game. His claiming responsibility for it would be great if he'd do something about it like finishing the incomplete features of CO but, all things indicate he has no interest in doing that and it's pretty easy to see it's leaving a sour taste in the mouths of players.
I also have to question the wisdom of pissing off the players when a company relies on word of mouth from it's players as much, if not more, than it does on advertising to get people to play their games. Strategies that like can result in their fourth game that they're already working on being dead before it even comes out simply because they'll have trashed their rep enough that it won't have enough people playing to sustain it.
A sign of neglect from the company towards both, the game and us as costumers (and yes, when this company has shown so little respect for us as costumers as to claim a thing like the chat-ban feature, for example, is "working as intended" it is a sign of neglect not only of the game but also of their costumers themselves and disrespect towards us as well). And no one is annoyed at the game, we're annoyed at the company (hence, the feelings of resentment toward it, going so far as to some people hoping that their other games will fail).
There are no "haters" here. People that trully "hate" this game or company are too busy playing other games and bad mouthing Crytpic elsewhere when the name comes up to bother posting here. And believe is not a requirement to play and enjoy a game. It isn't a religion, it is a game.
Also, these aren't "lofty" standards, they are normal, simple standards that are actually below what we can expect from most other game companies.
If I didn't know any better (that Cryptic seems to completely ignore everything that goes on here) I'd almost suspect you of astroturfing.
Instead, I'll just pity you.
Plus also given the fact that the game will be based on the least popular and most hated (not by all, but significant number) edition of D&D in the history of D&D, which is already on its way out given that WoC is already working on a 5th edition that's (apparently) going to do away with most of 4e (since so many people hated it). Which IMO pretty much puts a damper on how many D&D fans can be expected to flock to this one game based on a soon to be obsolete edition of D&D.
The games fun and you all have your head so far up our own **** its unreal. Enjoy the game while its here cause one day it wont be here.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
That will be a certainty if Cryptic continues to neglect it.
And I have been enjoying the heck out of it, which only makes me all the more frustrated by Cryptic's aforementioned neglect. Especially after a certain other game I enjoyed immensely got axed.
Old-school gamers are complaining because the game is structured too much like an MMO.
(In Penny Arcade, Tycho knows that Gabe has arrived as a gamer because now he has an old edition of D&D to favor, and a new version to hate and deride...)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I dunno about that. It felt too miniatures wargamey to me though with an overemphasis on miniatures and their... movement! Certain monsters and characters got abilities dominated by how many squares they or others moved. Yes, yes, D&D grew out of miniature wargaming, but that's no reason to take it back. And the classes? Honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between any of them anymore... all of them got similar abilities at the same levels with only flavor text to claim that they were "different." Even MMOs have differences in their classes. Then there was that abhorrent skill system from Star Wars Saga Edition that I absolutely hated because I couldn't custom tailor it at all. Then of course (another mechanic I hated from SW Saga) there were the self-heals which made clerics utterly pointless (but since they were doing the same thing everyone else was, I guess the designers failed to notice this).
And then of course there was that abortion that they replaced Forgotten Realms with.....
Pretty much. The game being structured too much like an MMO wasn't the only complaint people had. I never got the chance to try it out myself, since I haven't played PnPs in YEARS, but I did get a copy soon after release to check out what they had done to the game and it being structured too much like an MMO was the least of my concerns.
I may have liked a couple of things here or there I could have used in my own games* had I still played, but mostly I felt that the game was too streamlined (I liked the idea of streamlining a bit, but felt they went too over board with it to the point where it limited customization way too much), yet over complicated at the same time by shoehorning a complete power system to every single class just to make them on par with eachother, then bloating the game with a lot of useless copies of the same abilities but with tiny variations and such. Plus a bunch of other stuff I can't remember off the bat.
All in all, I felt that it was the most "different" and the least "D&D-like" edition of the game. And I'm not even an "editions fan" and never been. I just tend to use what I like/want how I like/want. But this particular edition just didnt "feel" like D&D to me anymore.
*I never actually played games as published per se, but tended to play homebrewed or heavily modified systems with expanded options custom fitted to my campaigns
Neverwinter wont bomb. CO is the biggest bomb as far a Cryptic goes and thats sorta popular.
City of Heroes , Champions Online , Star Trek online ( Trek is Perfect Worlds biggest mmo now) .Cryptic has yet to make a MMO that bombs and given the combination of Cryptic, free to play and the Dungeons and Dragons IP it might topple Star Trek as Cryptic's biggest ever hit.
All this DOOOOOM about how **** Cryptic is and all they ever do is churn out hit mmo after hit mmo.
All I can say to any Cryptic dev out there is not all your playerbase hates you. Some of us actually do like the work you do.
Apart from GMC he needs foam fingered. Breaking PvP like that XD
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I find edition wars and whiny gamer memes tiresome. No editions are perfect. Like 2e, 3.x was burdened down with a lot of inferior products and bloated numbers of OP options -- it had become a chore to GM well before 4e was announced -- and even though there were things about 4e I didn't care for (eg. wizards felt too similar to other classes, healing was too trivial, they jettisoned everything I ever wrote for the Realms
On the other hand, Cryptic's recent treatment of CO --the lack of communication most of all -- doesn't encourage me to invest my time and energy into NWN, and that's a shame, as I did want to tinker with the Foundry and come up with some quests based on Old Empires lore. However even if my worst fears about CO are realized, I do hope NWN is a big success and keeps some of my friends at Cryptic employed and happy for years to come.