Which powers do you think are the most "useless?"

sykov

Title says it all.

honestresearcher

Ninja Leaves....as ironicly people are Ninja leaving this game.

See what i did there? excellent.

itsbrou

Demolish.

It's unrealistic to expect an enemy to stand still and let you get the most of it.

It is a liability due to the absence of enrage granting mechanisms.

wraithshadow13

all of them since we have vehicles now!



On a serious note though, there ARE a lot and when you hit 40 it's really easy to see since you really only end up using a few of the higher end abilities and only have a few of the lower ones since you need them to unlock the top ones. Most control abilities become kind of useless in the high end content unless you're fighting the smaller mobs, but once you hit a boss, it doesn't do much.

pugdaddy

Most of the Ice power set has been over-shadowed by other sets, making Ice pretty much not worth using.

sinistro1978

Bite is somewhere on the list. It's just so bland and redundant. You can apply/refresh Enrage with the advantage. Yeah, applying/refreshing Enrage is really hard to do in Bestial.:rolleyes:

For those of you that didn't know...

Ways to Apply/Refresh Enrage in Bestial 101
1. Frenzy (3rd hit)
2. Howl (group buff)
3. Aspect of the Bestial (procs with bleeds)
4. Bite (with advantage)


The funny thing is the Savage AT has you choose between Bite and Massacre. Yes, you heard me right - Bite vs. Massacre. I'm not gonna break that one down too much, but another good example would be Shadow Blast vs. Ebon Ruin. Kind of a no-brainer. At least the Void AT didn't have those 2 powers go head to head.

wufflechan

The entire earth power set for one.

ashensnow

Vapor form.

Most (if not all) holds/stuns (assuming PVE).

theravenforce

-All of current Telepathy, bar Empathic Healing and Mindful Reinforcement.

-All of Force Powerset, bar Force Cascade, Geyser, Protection Field.

-Current Crowd Control System.

Main reasons is that Telepathy relied heavily on Crowd Control Mechanic which was completely shot in the face and left to bleed out in the gutter thanks to complaints about one power advantage and one other power, the answer apparently was to destroy an entire mechanic >_> leaving only charged holds to be desired and by the time you charge a hold usually multiple enemies could be dead.

As for Force, the majority of the powerset has potential, in terms of theme and powerful defensive abilities, which neither the playstyle nor the powerset support/cater for, hopefully it will change

rstzed

sinistro1978 wrote: »

Bite is somewhere on the list. It's just so bland and redundant. You can apply/refresh Enrage with the advantage. Yeah, applying/refreshing Enrage is really hard to do in Bestial.:rolleyes:

I use Bite to guarantee to place a bleed or two so I get the bonus from the advantage on Devour Essence.

I have found that Rocket launcher has too high an energy cost for the damage it dose.

crashdragon

Do patches count?

agentnx5

someguywhoplaysgames wrote: »

Demolish.

It's unrealistic to expect an enemy to stand still and let you get the most of it.

It is a liability due to the absence of enrage granting mechanisms.

That's the MOST for you?!

pugdaddy wrote: »

Most of the Ice power set has been over-shadowed by other sets, making Ice pretty much not worth using.

Not just ice, but the other energy projector sets too. Gigabolt is far behind other Tier-3 ranged AoE charge-up powers, heck even maintains. Take a moment to compare to Chest Beam, Shoulder Rocket Launcher, Force Cascade, or even Ricochet Throw (yes I know it says single target, but it then bounces between targets multiple times and you don't even have to line it up and it doesn't self-root you either. Hard to believe it was even more powerful before it's nerf).

Ice does have a distinct disadvantage however: no energy unlock making use of the Chill debuff. Shatter is one way of getting energy from that, but the energy return from consuming stacks of Chill with Shatter is dismal.

theravenforce wrote: »

Main reasons is that Telepathy relied heavily on Crowd Control Mechanic which was completely shot in the face and left to bleed out in the gutter thanks to complaints about one power advantage and one other power, the answer apparently was to destroy an entire mechanic >_> leaving only charged holds to be desired and by the time you charge a hold usually multiple enemies could be dead.

As for Force, the majority of the powerset has potential, in terms of theme and powerful defensive abilities, which neither the playstyle nor the powerset support/cater for, hopefully it will change

Force did get a buff recently, like just recently. Telepathy however reminds me of my #1 power that is weak...

1. Manipulator
   (top of the list because it's SUPPOSED to make holds strong enough to be viable, instead it fails miserably and is horrifically weak even with its full 8 stacks and 400 PRE and a Sentinel Core R7. Not working as intended! 0.1% Hold Resist can break out of even strong holds like Grasping Shadows in a second with little effort)
2. Celestial Cleansing
   (Not working as intended/described. Period.)
3. Ego Placate
   (has no effect on other players and negligible effect on enemy NPCs)
4. Mind Lock
   (definitely doesn't work as intended)
5. Ego Storm
   (should have just gotten rid of malevolent manifestation, instead it's ruined now)
6. Ego Choke
   (a lot of energy and self-rooting for a hold foes break out of fast)
7. Uthrona's Charm
   (useless.)
8. Binding of Aratron
   (would be better to simply delete it now)
9. Ego Sleep
   (should automatically be an AoE, and with a larger radius)
10. Demolish
    (Brou explained this one)
11. Psychic Vortex
    (the delay on building up stacks combined with its stationary nature and short AoE range makes it less useful in practice than it appears in theory)
12. Aura of Arcane Clarity
    (very rarely used for a reason)
13. Bite
    (compare its damage and advantages to the other powers in the set, Demolish is actually more useful because it'll increase the damage of your bleeds)
14. Gigabolt
    (compare to its peers and you'll see why)
15. Hex of Suffering
    (This? This is the top-level power for Grimoire? Sad... Useful as a group NttG effect or a group Root, but that's really it. Compare to Entangling Mesh, or even Hurl or Force Gyser for that matter)
16. Particle Mine
    (Have you ever tried in in actual combat? It looks nice in theory, but in practice... not so much)

keikomyst

Gas Arrow.
Can't crit, does pitiful damage, the only good thing is that it's fire and forget.

Frag Grenade.
Overshadowed by Shotgun. Range is very short, explosion scatters everything rather than Shotgun just sending a guy flying in the direction you're aiming.

Most of the Ice set.
Anything that isn't Ice Blast is hard to use and has a low payoff.

Celestial Cleansing.
Pffffffft...

Aura of Primal Majesty.
IT'S TOO UGLY. Get rid of the aura and I might use it.

agentnx5

keikomyst wrote: »

Gas Arrow.
Can't crit, does pitiful damage, the only good thing is that it's fire and forget.

Disagree. I've seen it used for good area of denial damage, the problem is the scaling of that damage is out of whack (very similar to issues experienced with force powers btw). Proof? Look at Devana Hawke when she uses it.

keikomyst wrote: »

Frag Grenade.
Overshadowed by Shotgun. Range is very short, explosion scatters everything rather than Shotgun just sending a guy flying in the direction you're aiming.

Disagree, sometimes it's exactly what you need. If you're short on advantage points, want to add a quick self-defense knock especially if you're already munitions and have some EGO stat, then it's just right. Do take care though, it's not exactly teamplay friendly if misused.

keikomyst wrote: »

Aura of Primal Majesty.
IT'S TOO UGLY. Get rid of the aura and I might use it.

In truth, I NEVER liked the alphabet-soup runes spewing from it. Also the "red" is "pink-ish" because it has a white tint to it. Long ago a developer promised we'd have more color customization control, including tinting/shading. A promise that has YET to be fulfilled.

cybersoldier1981

Ninja Vanish: I honestly feel bad for anyone who paid for this.

Most of Archery: To be honest, except for a couple of archery attacks, that whole set is sort of lackluster. Exploding arrow is a joke.

Lock & Load: You're kidding me now, right?

ashensnow

agentnx5 wrote: »

Disagree. I've seen it used for good area of denial damage, the problem is the scaling of that damage is out of whack (very similar to issues experienced with force powers btw). Proof? Look at Devana Hawke when she uses it.

I am going to have to disagree with your disagreement. I've yet to see it do damage worth mentioning (including Devana Hawke). I tried to like it (I love the concept), tested dozens of build variants in an attempt to make it work, all in vain.

cybersoldier1981 wrote: »

Exploding arrow is a joke.

Although I consider it to be underperforming I am curious as to why you would consider EA to be a joke.

agentnx5

ashensnow wrote: »

I am going to have to disagree with your disagreement. I've yet to see it do damage worth mentioning (including Devana Hawke). I tried to like it (I love the concept), tested dozens of build variants in an attempt to make it work, all in vain.

Take a look at the Noxious Fumes advantage, then consider the above with regards to how weak holds are now overall. Combine that with the damage resistance you see from many enemies (and players) in the game now. No criticals, like of like Ball Lightning in that sense. No noteworthy synergy with other powers.

I'm not denying it's weak for players, but for bosses it can be fairly strong. I've watched plenty of Smash Alerts fail because of that gas arrow, because the lower level players (even if they block) won't have the necessary damage resistance from their gear yet)

ashensnow wrote: »

Although I consider it to be underperforming I am curious as to why you would consider EA to be a joke.

It's actually quite funny watching "runners" in PvP get killed by the "Where's the kaboom?" advantage. :biggrin: Maybe he's being literal and not sarcastic?

towershield

Gas Pellets and Plasma Beam because I know for a fact those two powers still suffer from the "can't shoot them down a hill" issue. Watching the pellets suspend themselves in the air and put on a special effects show is amusing at times but a waste of a power selection.

titotito333999

In my opinion the most useless powers are all the Crowd Control ones. Specially in PvE. We wound need some type of INSANITY difficulty mode to actually have a need for them. And all combo powers because I use a controller.

cybersoldier1981

ashensnow wrote: »

Although I consider it to be underperforming I am curious as to why you would consider EA to be a joke.

For the charge time considered, it's WAY weak compared to what it could reasonably be. It hits little harder than the standard charge attack.

It is more a novelty power than something worth using.

ashensnow

cybersoldier1981 wrote: »

For the charge time considered, it's WAY weak compared to what it could reasonably be. It hits little harder than the standard charge attack.

It is more a novelty power than something worth using.

Hmm.

I've seen 6k+ hits from Explosive Arrow on a charge.

I see 4k out of Explosive Arrow with Where's the Kaboom, on a tap.

Underperforming compared to other powers, yes (I frequently see 3.5k-4.2k crits out of Two Gun Mojo for example, and the full charge burst damage capabilities of certain other powers is well documented), but I'm not sure that 4k taps, with a time delay so that you can sync it with another power for pretty intense time on target effects is a joke.

keikomyst

Tap Explosive Arrow with Where's the Kaboom?

Proceed with normal attacks.

Seconds later, 5k spike that aligns with a 7k Straight Shot.

Decent in PvE, hilarious in PvP.

warcanch

agentnx5 wrote: »

1. Manipulator
   (top of the list because it's SUPPOSED to make holds strong enough to be viable, instead it fails miserably and is horrifically weak even with its full 8 stacks and 400 PRE and a Sentinel Core R7. Not working as intended! 0.1% Hold Resist can break out of even strong holds like Grasping Shadows in a second with little effort)
2. Celestial Cleansing
   (Not working as intended/described. Period.)
3. Ego Placate
   (has no effect on other players and negligible effect on enemy NPCs)
4. Mind Lock
   (definitely doesn't work as intended)
5. Ego Storm
   (should have just gotten rid of malevolent manifestation, instead it's ruined now)
6. Ego Choke
   (a lot of energy and self-rooting for a hold foes break out of fast)
7. Uthrona's Charm
   (useless.)
8. Binding of Aratron
   (would be better to simply delete it now)
9. Ego Sleep
   (should automatically be an AoE, and with a larger radius)
10. Demolish
    (Brou explained this one)
11. Psychic Vortex
    (the delay on building up stacks combined with its stationary nature and short AoE range makes it less useful in practice than it appears in theory)
12. Aura of Arcane Clarity
    (very rarely used for a reason)
13. Bite
    (compare its damage and advantages to the other powers in the set, Demolish is actually more useful because it'll increase the damage of your bleeds)
14. Gigabolt
    (compare to its peers and you'll see why)
15. Hex of Suffering
    (This? This is the top-level power for Grimoire? Sad... Useful as a group NttG effect or a group Root, but that's really it. Compare to Entangling Mesh, or even Hurl or Force Gyser for that matter)
16. Particle Mine
    (Have you ever tried in in actual combat? It looks nice in theory, but in practice... not so much)

I will echo your list, mostly. I've never used Manipulator and find Urthona's Charm and Particle Mine kinda useful (a bit of fun), but could see that most players find them useless.

The rest I agree with, especially my "pet" weak power, Celestial Cleansing.

akirasanbeer

Most of claws/single/dual weapons.

smoochan

Whatever the NPCs are using, since any of our powers can be used to stomp them into the mud without any thought.


Honestly though, I can't really paint any power as useless, since they all get the job done in some way. Powers being useless isn't the problem anyway, since powers could only be considered useless due to the presence of an infinitely better option.

But uh.. in the spirit of the thread... Orbital Cannon. I could kill everything three times over before that power goes off.

theravenforce

Glad I could make you laugh :rolleyes:

They are just my favorite powersets which hardly have any real desire to play them, that's all. Hopefullly in the future that will change​​

roughbearmattach

As others have said, most of the control powers aren't good enough: weak minions get killed easily anyway, and strong ones tend to ignore or throw off most control effects.

nepht

Anything that involves might.

Shame that I used to like might powers

atompenguin

smoochan wrote: »

Whatever the NPCs are using, since any of our powers can be used to stomp them into the mud without any thought.


Honestly though, I can't really paint any power as useless, since they all get the job done in some way. Powers being useless isn't the problem anyway, since powers could only be considered useless due to the presence of an infinitely better option.

Pretty much this. It's funny that people complain so much about one power sucking, it gets buffed, then the other options "suck" so everything else needs buffs. It's a constant cycle of pointlessness as there's next to zero challenge in pve these days. It's even better because, the powers that 'sucked' still destroyed things in pve in a single use. Like two gun mojo, which I never thought was really underpowered as it still destroyed minions in a single maintain for next to zero energy when everything was all said and done (not that I will really complain too much as it's always been a staple power for one of my characters).

Not every power needs to completely faceroll content.

I will, however, submit mini mines as a power that is useless. Even with wall of fire it's barely enough to shave 1/4 off a single mobs lifebar. After the launch day nerf it went from hilarious to unusuable, much like eyebeams. Eyebeams is pretty great again though... so maybe we'll see mini mines be actually usable sometime?

blkjackwilliams

Focused Shot.

Amazing that with the Archery talk, Gas Arrow is mentioned, Explosive Arrow is mentioned, but Focused shot is left out.

Avalanche advantage -> Serreted Shards

Also, depending on how advantages apply bonus damage (Multiplicitive vs Addtive vs base increase) There's a whole lot of completely useless advantages (or ranks) out there.

theravenforce

Speaking of that power, does the 8ft final combo punch apply 1 stack of Defiance still or is it....1 stack per ppl hit O_o?

I wonder... ​​

theravenforce

blkjackwilliams wrote: »

Avalanche advantage -> Serreted Shards

I don't find this advantage to be useless actually ...it's quite good for me..then again I am using Aura of Primal OPness

blkjackwilliams

theravenforce wrote: »

I don't find this advantage to be useless actually ...it's quite good for me..then again I am using Aura of Primal OPness

I'm actually not quite sure what they were thinking when they made this advantage. It's a 10% bonus chance for 20% bonus damage. R3 is 100% chance for 20% bonus damage. Added to that, is the fact that the damage from rank is effected by whatever severity you do have. It's an advantage that cannot do better than rank.

The very best that can be done with the advantage is if you have 100% critical chance, and then you're just matching the damage from rank. However whenever the player with rank crits, they beat you for damage, because their severity is accounting their 20% boost while yours isn't.

sykov

theravenforce wrote: »

Speaking of that power, does the 8ft final combo punch apply 1 stack of Defiance still or is it....1 stack per ppl hit O_o?

I wonder...

It's one stack per person that is hit with the 3rd punch.

tancrediiv

The Giant Growth adv on Enrage. No way to maintain it. Useless.

Enrage and Aggressor in their current forms.

theravenforce

sykov wrote: »

It's one stack per person that is hit with the 3rd punch.

Thats a bit much isnt it?

I mean get a group of five ppl and throw out 3 punches and WHAM! 6 stacks of Defiance...bummer..

theravenforce

blkjackwilliams wrote: »

I'm actually not quite sure what they were thinking when they made this advantage. It's a 10% bonus chance for 20% bonus damage. R3 is 100% chance for 20% bonus damage. Added to that, is the fact that the damage from rank is effected by whatever severity you do have. It's an advantage that cannot do better than rank.

The very best that can be done with the advantage is if you have 100% critical chance, and then you're just matching the damage from rank. However whenever the player with rank crits, they beat you for damage, because their severity is accounting their 20% boost while yours isn't.

Serrated Shards GRANTS 10% increased critical chance and 20% increased Critical Severity.

I use it with Ice Form now and provided I dont run out of energy it serves me pretty well actually.

But yes, it does seem not as good when you put it that way, then again with high Dex it can be a useful addition.

blkjackwilliams

theravenforce wrote: »

Serrated Shards GRANTS 10% increased critical chance and 20% increased Critical Severity.

I use it with Ice Form now and provided I dont run out of energy it serves me pretty well actually.

But yes, it does seem not as good when you put it that way, then again with high Dex it can be a useful addition.

Granting +10% increased critical chance and 20% increased critical severity is close enough to a bonus 10% chance for Bonus 20% damage.

It might serve you well, but the rank would be better in every situation.

Nope. The absolute best it can do is a 100% crit rate. You cannot crit more than every attack. The effect of severity doesn't change as you add severity. 20% severity adds 20% of your damage on crit whether or not it's added to base, or a super jacked up critical chance. Rank boosts damage 20% 100% of the time, so with a 100% crit build, you're only doing almost as good as the rank, when you have the advantage. And since the 20% severity isn't considered by your other severity, when you crit, but the base damage increase -is-. There is no situation where the advantage beats rank.

And again, depending on how they do advantage based damage buffs, there could be a good deal of advantage/rank relationships like this.

lovehammer1

Celestial cleansing! Now if it did what it said it can do at a high lvl i would take it every time.
As it is, it does NOTHING!

And then comes MIGHT! My favorite set at one time. After the damage and knock damage Nerf it is pretty much useless now.

underchicken

Let's see...

-ALL Knock To powers (Force Snap, Grapple Pull, etc.)
-Vapor Form
-Ice Form (This passive is prolly the worst in game. It's bad when the rest of the set works better with Defensive Passives rather then the passive it's build for.)
-ALL Holds currently suck as the Hold System currently sucks(I won't add Manipulator to the list as I believe it would be fine if the Hold System itself got fixed.)
-ALL Non-Combat Travel Powers(with the exclusion of teleports.)
-Vehicles(again because the system sucks)

Eh, that's all I got fer now.

smoochan

underchicken wrote: »

Let's see...

-ALL Knock To powers (Force Snap, Grapple Pull, etc.)

Not sure if this defeats useless or anything... but have you ever tried using one of those knock-to's on a mob that you just knocked away? It's funny.

Especially hilarious in a timed alert vs hi-pan.

underchicken

smoochan wrote: »

Not sure if this defeats useless or anything... but have you ever tried using one of those knock-to's on a mob that you just knocked away? It's funny.

Especially hilarious in a timed alert vs hi-pan.

Heh, Yeah I had fun doing that with Roomsweeper and I believe it's Chain Lariat(if that's the knock To one.) It's fun playing spank and yank.....:eek: <.< >.> Forget I said that.:redface:

Only problem with doing that is you loose all the fall damage then would have taken if you had just let them fly off into the sunset.

theravenforce

blkjackwilliams wrote: »

Granting +10% increased critical chance and 20% increased critical severity is close enough to a bonus 10% chance for Bonus 20% damage.

It might serve you well, but the rank would be better in every situation.

Nope. The absolute best it can do is a 100% crit rate. You cannot crit more than every attack. The effect of severity doesn't change as you add severity. 20% severity adds 20% of your damage on crit whether or not it's added to base, or a super jacked up critical chance. Rank boosts damage 20% 100% of the time, so with a 100% crit build, you're only doing almost as good as the rank, when you have the advantage. And since the 20% severity isn't considered by your other severity, when you crit, but the base damage increase -is-. There is no situation where the advantage beats rank.

And again, depending on how they do advantage based damage buffs, there could be a good deal of advantage/rank relationships like this.

Hmm which means I've screwed up my Winter Fairy build T______________T

Darn...at least she's only level.....32 T_T...

theravenforce

lovehammer1 wrote: »

Celestial cleansing! Now if it did what it said it can do at a high lvl i would take it every time.
As it is, it does NOTHING!

And then comes MIGHT! My favorite set at one time. After the damage and knock damage Nerf it is pretty much useless now.

Celestial Cleansing cleanses you of damage dealing abilities :biggrin::rolleyes:

I reported a bug where I got hit by Celestial Cleansing and it wiped my powertray... V_V

pugdaddy

atompenguin wrote: »

Pretty much this. It's funny that people complain so much about one power sucking, it gets buffed, then the other options "suck" so everything else needs buffs. It's a constant cycle of pointlessness as there's next to zero challenge in pve these days. It's even better because, the powers that 'sucked' still destroyed things in pve in a single use. Like two gun mojo, which I never thought was really underpowered as it still destroyed minions in a single maintain for next to zero energy when everything was all said and done (not that I will really complain too much as it's always been a staple power for one of my characters).

Not every power needs to completely faceroll content.

The "buff/debuff/introduce awesome new set" thing does somewhat resemble an arms race.
This is also why I like Alerts, they provide a challenge. Those mobs aren't paper and you usually need to work with the rest of the group to take down the Boss. (I know that they can be soloed with a high level with a good build).
I wonder if we will have to face Villians with their own Hover Tanks eventually?

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

Frag grenade isn't useless. Scattered opponents can get killed off with gun kata.

I would say these powers are below my standard, not necessarily useless.

Inertial Dampening Field
Lightning Reflexes... think about it: if it's so "good" why does almost nobody use it anymore?
Bountiful Chi Resurgence
Imbue
Lock 'n' Load
Electric Sheath
Force snap (Force Pull :P)
Targeting Computer
midget device

I'll add more as I feel like it. :P

honestresearcher wrote: »

Ninja Leaves....as ironicly people are Ninja leaving this game.

See what i did there? excellent.

This. I sea wut yew did thare. >_>