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Annoyed that you hit the level cap too quickly?

twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
edited October 2012 in Champions Online Discussion
Let's do what other MMOs do then;

1. Provide no travel power except via the Z-store. And then only make those available after a grind. That'll keep everyone walking to the missions. (Try turning off your travel power sometime and walk everywhere. Millennium City suddenly seems a lot bigger.)

2. Now that we're all on foot, place the missions veerrrrrry far away from the mission giver. Have Surhoff give the missions for downtown, for example.

3. Get rid of the Crime Computer and make players walk back to the Mission-giver.

4. Spread the mobs out. Two dozen New Purples in the same parking lot?! Madness! One Purple per city block! Why would they stand around in groups of five waiting to be taken out by your AoE attacks at the same time?

5. Make every mission a collection mission. The player has to arrest ten New Purples before Kodiak will talk to them. Things like that.

So by setting up the game like 90% of the other MMOs on the market you will eliminate the feeling there's not enough content and replace it with the feeling there's way too much of it simply because it takes a very long time to get them done.

Why you could spend a month in Lemuria alone!

While I agree that there should be more to do once you hit lvl40, and an alternate leveling path would be nice, I think the frequent complaint of "No content" is false when you think about the mechanics of the game itself compared to the other MMOs: CO simply doesn't make 75% of your gaming time walking from Point A to Point B.

Poor padding.
Post edited by twg042370 on
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Comments

  • wimpazoidwimpazoid Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Content is already there. How enjoyable it is to repeat said content is subjective.

    I do not agree with this. I prefer to play missions without being bogged down by admin and traveling time.
    This can possibly kill the game for alt-aholics like me. Not a fan of tedious gameplay and grinds.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Why would i be annoyed.
    Isn't the point to get to 40 as fast as you can to make another alt. To experience the same content path with different character, with different powers, facing same enemies.
    And why walk the 75% of your gaming time from Point A to Point B when you can Fly, Jetpack, Rocketboot, Superjump, RunFast, Dig, Teleport.
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  • andromeda9899andromeda9899 Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Cancelling travel power is a bad idea for this game cause CO is a superhero based game in which a superhero usually possess super speed or any moving ability. If travel powers are cancelled, the game is seriously ruined.

    Personally I won't use the crime computer that much cause if you follow the orders from NPC, they will guide you to next NPC who has missions available to you. Adding any restrictions to missions will only discourage players to level up by doing missions since Alerts appear where Smash Alert gives huge amount of exp.

    In CO, players like to have plenty of characters with different builds. If it takes too long to reach level 40, it will discourage players to play with different powersets. Especially for freeform, many players spend a lot of time with trials and errors to find the build that suits their playstyle.

    I have suggested in the suggestion section that new content should be added which is only available for level 40s to unlock new stuff and earn new type of rewards.

    Increasing the level cap is a method to solve this problem also. In addition to that, CRYPTIC should increase the amount of exp required to level up from level 40 to new maximum level. For example, 2million of exp is needed to level up from level 40 to 41. This is not so tough to achieve cause players can easily level up to level 40 without solving all missions available out there. Once a player has completed quests in Millemium City, Desert, Canada, Monster Island, the player is already level 40 or close to level 40. That player won't have to touch missions on Vibora Bay Apocalyse or Lemuria or vice versa.
  • oneheadedboyoneheadedboy Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have a different perspective to offer since I'm new to the game. I'll admit that I only came here because COH is shutting down, but for what it's worth I'm glad I did. I've gotten my character to level 33 so far and it's been a blast.

    The production quality in this game is extremely enjoyable to me, and the content is very engaging. I haven't felt like I'm rushing to the level cap- I've felt like I've been enjoying a great game and playing it often because it's so much fun.

    I know some people don't like the lighthearted/campy/tacky nature of the content but I get a kick out of it. It reminds me that I play video games for fun. The voice acting and cut scenes are entertaining to me. I've done all the adventure packs and comics, and they've been the bread and butter of my play experience so far. Seriously great, well developed content.

    I've seen a lot of mention of bugs on the forums, but I haven't ran into any myself (aside from NPC's in cut scenes occasionally hovering across the ground without a walk animation or moving their mouths and gesturing out of sync with the dialogue and continuing to do so after the dialogue ends- But these are hardly game breaking.)

    As for the pace itself, it's actually kind of a breath of fresh air. I like to feel like I'm not grinding away at levels, doing stuff repetitiously with the leveling being the only source of gratification as it can feel in many MMO's during a typical XP grind.

    I also have a lot to look forward to once I hit 40 in working out the whole gear/mod systems, getting acquainted with builds and min/maxing over here in CO (my primary interest in COH) and then there's always making new characters and checking out a whole myriad of power options.

    This is just my take on the leveling process- It might not even be relevant, but.. Shrug.
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  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I like that Poe's Law can apply to pretty much anything. :smile:
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  • sanmercisanmerci Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    twg042370 wrote: »
    I like that Poe's Law can apply to pretty much anything. :smile:

    I've always preferred Cole's Law...

    But, yeah, I was seriously wondering why everyone was taking what (to me) seemed an obviously sarcastic thread so seriously...
  • xaogarrentxaogarrent Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I see what you're getting at with this satirical list, but it's wrong.

    Why? Simple: Look at City of Heroes. A game not unlike CO, that had a fraction of the complaints about a lack of content, because they had regular content updates from early on in its development, all the way through most of the game's life time. That game at worst sent you to other zones for missions, and even that was largely negated by Super Group bases with a full set of teleporters.

    By large and far, that game had the same "travel" structure as ours, and what running around they did make you do was offset by a better contact handling system, less need to vendor things and less complex loot in general, and any other number of things I really wish we had here in CO.

    The entire reason it didn't generate as many complaints about lack of content is that there were multiple leveling paths, even multiple parallel, sometimes exclusive, arcs you could play through. You'd be on your fifth alt and STILL probably hadn't seen it all. The devs took the time to fill out the game with multiple paths to 50, giving the game not just a feel of being much larger, but a greatly enhanced replay value.

    ...Mind you, some of it you didn't WANT to see. Ugghhh, early game CoT arcs, cramped caves and Ruin Mages EVERYWHERE.

    ...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sanmerci wrote: »
    I've always preferred Cole's Law...

    But, yeah, I was seriously wondering why everyone was taking what (to me) seemed an obviously sarcastic thread so seriously...


    I thought i wasn't taking it seriously...

    'ach, my Sarcasm Meter is borked'.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    twg042370 wrote: »
    Why you could spend a month in Lemuria alone!

    I'm so on board with this.

    Because you know, the Aegis submarine is there so I'm on...

    Ah forget it. I got nothing.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    And i hope i grow gills in that month there, because the seaweed that helps to breath under water is starting to taste like halibutt.
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  • chaoswolf820chaoswolf820 Posts: 734 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    personally, the only down-side to levelcap is that CO does not do what some other MMO's, such as WoW, do to accomodate said cap...

    Namely, if you complete a quest at level-cap, rather than getting worthless XP as a quest reward, you instead get extra money.

    For example, in WoW, a quest that would normally give 1966,000 XP and 76 gold if completed at level 89, if completed at 90, awards 0 XP and 117 gold.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    And i hope i grow gills in that month there, because the seaweed that helps to breath under water is starting to taste like halibutt.

    Well if it makes you feel better it seems that you've started to grow scales.

    Or it could just be your skin getting really pruney from being in the water so long.

    Either way, ew.
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    xaogarrent wrote: »
    I see what you're getting at with this satirical list, but it's wrong.

    Why? Simple: Look at City of Heroes. A game not unlike CO, that had a fraction of the complaints about a lack of content, because they had regular content updates from early on in its development, all the way through most of the game's life time. That game at worst sent you to other zones for missions, and even that was largely negated by Super Group bases with a full set of teleporters.

    By large and far, that game had the same "travel" structure as ours, and what running around they did make you do was offset by a better contact handling system, less need to vendor things and less complex loot in general, and any other number of things I really wish we had here in CO.

    The entire reason it didn't generate as many complaints about lack of content is that there were multiple leveling paths, even multiple parallel, sometimes exclusive, arcs you could play through. You'd be on your fifth alt and STILL probably hadn't seen it all. The devs took the time to fill out the game with multiple paths to 50, giving the game not just a feel of being much larger, but a greatly enhanced replay value.

    ...Mind you, some of it you didn't WANT to see. Ugghhh, early game CoT arcs, cramped caves and Ruin Mages EVERYWHERE.


    ^^^What he said.


    The OP's references or comparisons to how things are done in other games (which would mostly be fantasy genre) seems a bit dangerous for CO in some ways. Look at some of those, "other games," and you might find, as Xaogarrent mentions about COH, multiple leveling paths. You might very well find several times as many explorable zones, dungeons/lairs, PvP maps, and so on.

    So yeah, characters might move slower, but one might consider that to be compensated for by actually having, potentially, exponentially more content.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    ashensnow wrote: »
    ^^^What he said.


    The OP's references or comparisons to how things are done in other games (which would mostly be fantasy genre) seems a bit dangerous for CO in some ways. Look at some of those, "other games," and you might find, as Xaogarrent mentions about COH, multiple leveling paths. You might very well find several times as many explorable zones, dungeons/lairs, PvP maps, and so on.

    So yeah, characters might move slower, but one might consider that to be compensated for by actually having, potentially, exponentially more content.

    Some of the examples in the OP reminded me of LOTRO.

    So much time is involved travelling in that MMO. I can remember trips between two points on horseback actually taking up to 20 mins. But the thing is that the game world is intentionally built on an epic scale with actual massive continents as an appeal and there's really a lot to explore, so it can't really be written off as a design flaw like what the OP is trying to point out that isn't in CO I'm assuming.
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Personally, I'm glad CO doesn't do "travel padding". It adds up pretty quickly even in games that aren't as obviously insane about having large maps like LOTRO. And it's really boring on top of that.

    But the speed gives the illusion of a content poor game. And our toons are competent right out of the gate instead being total weinies like, say, PWI or DDO.

    Now if you want a content poor game, there's a game about starships and tribbles near by...
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  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Some of the examples in the OP reminded me of LOTRO.

    So much time is involved travelling in that MMO. I can remember trips between two points on horseback actually taking up to 20 mins. But the thing is that the game world is intentionally built on an epic scale with actual massive continents as an appeal and there's really a lot to explore, so it can't really be written off as a design flaw like what the OP is trying to point out that isn't in CO I'm assuming.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that we have traded comments about LoTRO's back and forth questing model here before.

    Even with all of that run around you were exploring a pretty large and varied world in the process. I tend to agree that its not necessarily a design flaw for characters to spend time traveling through the game world rather than overflying it repeatedly. If the exploration aspect is enjoyable then skipping over the world via fast travel is not necessarily a good thing.

    I mean I can get to the top of the mountain near my home much more quickly on the road by truck than on foot via the nature hike trails.
    twg042370 wrote: »
    But the speed gives the illusion of a content poor game.

    I don't find it to be an illusion. I completely understand why there is (IMO) a content shortage, but understanding doesn't change that every character plays through pretty much the same exact leveling path.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    twg042370 wrote: »
    Personally, I'm glad CO doesn't do "travel padding". It adds up pretty quickly even in games that aren't as obviously insane about having large maps like LOTRO. And it's really boring on top of that.

    But the speed gives the illusion of a content poor game. And our toons are competent right out of the gate instead being total weinies like, say, PWI or DDO.

    Now if you want a content poor game, there's a game about starships and tribbles near by...

    Well I'm in the agreement that CO isn't poor on content. Is it bursting full of it with alternative levelling paths galore? No. But I think to say that the game lacks in alternative levelling paths is unfair since I feel at the moment the game does have an abundance of them. It's solely up to the player whether the paths provided are feasible to them, in which case it's impossible to please everyone.

    At the end of the day, all content in CO is static. You can put in as many levelling paths in the game as you want but eventually with enough interest you can end up doing them all, get bored will be aching for new content.
  • arimikamiarimikami Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I might get flamed for this but, I think a good part of the problem is that CO made it very very easy to hit level cap in a fairly short amount of time via alerts without providing more for level capped characters to do first. There are always going to be players that take the absolute quickest path available to them and, in other games at least, I've noticed they also tend to be the ones that stand around on their level capped characters and complain about there being nothing to do.

    I definitely think they need to focus more on content that's made specifically for characters at the level cap but, I'm also someone that enjoys the leveling process so I don't rush to the end like I see some other people doing.
  • pachiirupachiiru Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I do hope you are joking.

    I can barely find it in myself to even go a level upward before just ****ing stopping. It's dreadful and you say people reach it too fast?
  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    ya know, been here 3 years, still haven't hit 40. keep trying new builds and rerolling. will likely get more focused come November first (grumble grumble) but taking my time. didn't have a 50 in coh for almost 3 years either.
  • dragonblueydragonbluey Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sanmerci wrote: »
    I've always preferred Cole's Law...
    I prefer Cole MacGrath's Law. Everything can be solved with lightning.

    As for travel padding, the only "proper" MMO I've ever played (besides the first few levels of WoW) is RIFT, and I got so tired of traveling in that game. I'd get a mission (er, a quest) to take two swords to... Fire... Alley or whatever and it was like a twenty minute horse ride away. And that's twenty minutes of just riding, not twenty minutes of riding and stopping to pick flowers or something. And of course the place I need to go is the ONE place in Defiantsburg that doesn't have a fast travel teleporter nearby.

    That's just because I had the fancypants edition and got a mount right away. I couldn't imagine having to leisurely jog everywhere until I shored up the 20 gold I needed to buy a horse.

    I will admit that RIFT is beautiful and there's a sort of epic feel to riding your horse across the land with the sun setting behind you. But when you're just signing on to do your crafting quest before dinner, you kinda want things to pick up the pace.

    I'm not sure where I was going with that, because I kinda feel like it takes forever to travel around in CO, too.

    The game isn't exactly content STARVED, it's just full of content that I outright don't want to do. There's like twenty entire story arcs in Lemuria that I haven't touched. I found Floodgate for the first time yesterday. She's apparently been in this game since the beginning but I had no idea because I've never investigated that area. The only reason I ever go to Lemuria is when UNITY asks me to and they have to drag me kicking and screaming to their teleporter. It's really a beautiful place, it just feels like it takes longer to get around and the place is twice as large as every other zone and is filled with the least interesting enemies.

    Those UNITY daily missions? Those take me about a week to do, because I can only do one or two before I've lost all will to continue. I don't know what it is. I can play the game proper for hours on end, but those UNITY dailies just drive me crazy. And every single batch of them has the same damn Equal Opportunity Transmogrification mission on the farthest cave away on Monster Island. And it comes full circle to travel padding. If I could do the missions just one by one, cut out all the traveling and just exit one instance straight into the next mission's instance, I'd have no problem. But I have to go to Monster Island, go all the way to the cave, go all the way back, take the sub to Lemuria, go all the way to Rastafarian's Abyss or whatever, fight Bleak Ones who keep calling me human despite my tail and dragon wings...

    And I just realized that that is all actually at the level cap and thus outside the scope of this discussion.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Posts: 5,491 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'd say that part of the issue w/ "lack of content", even accounting for travel powers, is also how the XP is slanted in CO vs CoX. In CoX, "street sweeping" was a perfectly valid tactic to fill in some gaps, simply because mob XP was proportionally much higher than it is here in CO. Let's also not forget that the simply pace of combat in CO is different than CoX, not to mention character builds - in CoX, those characters w/ a power set devoted to defense, like tanker or scrappers, had multiple powers dealing specifically w/ said defense - effective immunity to status effects is pretty much the norm for these characters. At the same time, having to wait for every tic of energy or running to re-gear because your enhancements just turned red was another factor. The on-demand missions from the newspaper or crime computer, coupled with the much more team-friendly environment helped a lot as well.

    If you don't do alerts and follow each and every mission chain from contact to contact, you won't run out of stuff to do. However, because it's still a pretty rapid rate of progression, and because there isn't the kind of dramatic improvement in effectiveness with each power or advantage point once you hit the mid 20's, the desire to keep slogging your way to 40 dwindles.

    Alerts have assuaged this a little bit, but they are still very repetitive; the increased rate of progression they give helps with this a lot, though.

    What is needed is more non-alert/non-special event content - specifically open world stuff, but also to make all the regular content truly rewarding. This means giving XP, mods, and gear on par with what you can get from doing alerts. And IMO, this wouldn't be tough to do - just figure out how long your average team takes to do a Smash, Burst, or Grab Alert, then figure out how long regular missions take to do. Another thing that needs to be done is to address the extremely poor selection of gear that these missions give - make sure that each of the character's super stats are found on at least 1 piece of the gear that's given, and make sure that above level 15, primary pieces have at least 1 mod slot - this includes the ones given from the various green recognition boxes.

    Additionally, the incentive to team for these regular missions need to be reexamined. Automatically grant scaled mission completion XP for all members of a team that participated - set a minimum range for a team member to get this XP to avoid AFKers or somesuch. Eliminate the "This mission can't be shared" nonsense as well. Have every enemy defeated roll once per teammate to see if they drop an item - said items would still follow the established loot rules. I mean, think about it - if you do an instanced mission solo, every enemy has a chance of dropping something for you, but if you're on a team of five, it's still just 1 roll per enemy. Yes, I realize there are more enemies and ideally they would be defeated more quickly, but it still doesn't work out in the end.

    Lastly, since the very low levels is where people first experience their characters, provide some alternatives. We used to have Canada or the Desert, then we had those plus Westside, now we *just* have Westside - and it isn't really fun. It's kinda clunky and the Purple Gang just isn't as cool or interesting as Ice Demons or Irradiates. How about redoing that park area in MC where the previous Westside missions w/ the hotdog vendors used to be? Bring in the Brain Trust and have us actually fight some (albeit weak) supervillains? Another option is to actually make use of those giant buildings in Ren Ctr - create the interior of one of them - perhaps the old UNTIL building. It could involve Dr. Destroyer in some way - perhaps tying into Destroyer's Factory which we visit later.

    I'd also like to see something done about the notion of not bothering with "leveling gear" and just worrying about it when you hit 40. Allow us to pay resources or otherwise use mods to upgrade regular gear - perhaps make it so we could switch what stats are in our gear or what bonuses they provide. It annoys me that some of my characters end up using the early starter gear until their 20's due to specific stat choices not being "liked" by the loot tables, or due to mission reward gear not having better stats or mod slots.
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  • arimikamiarimikami Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    To Bioshrike:

    Just read everything you said, and you said a lot so, I won't be quoting you since that would make this post take a whole page however...

    Given how much XP people get from turning in missions, I don't think they really need to look at XP from mob kills. It's pretty good as is and this is coming from someone that levels almost entirely through soloing the actual story arcs rather than running alerts.

    As far as on demand missions go, this game has those too. That's the alerts and you don't even have to go to a mission door. The game teleports you right to where you have to be.

    With regard to a lot of the rest of what you've said... I think you've missed the point of this thread. It was someone poking fun at people that complain about not having anything to do at level 40. I don't think giving those people ways to level faster is really going to help matters and honestly, don't think they need to change the rewards either. I mean, you can plow through an alert and get a handful of mods, cash, or whatever in what? Two to five minutes? I can honestly say that I think the regular content is pretty good as is with regards to rewards and that it doesn't need to be scaled so the entire game is paced as if you're running a nonstop alert.

    As far as gear for leveling goes... get out of those alerts and go run some nemesis missions. For two hundred nemesis tokens you can get a piece of nemesis's heirloom gear. It gives stat boosts based on whatever your super stats are that scales with your level and each piece gives a three percent XP boost so it's good all the way up to level cap. They bind to your account too instead of to your characters so once you've got one toon capped and geared, you can pass them onto another one of your characters. You'll never have to worry about primary gear again. Only took me about a week to get all three.

    Not to be rude but, I think you're way off the mark as far as incentives for teaming goes. As far as I can tell, a large part of the reason that people don't team to do regular content is that, really, there's no need for it. None of it is especially challenging so why would someone spend time going through the trouble of trying to gather a team together and then sharing all the different quests between people when they can just run it on their own easily and not bother with trying to herd cats? If you want people to team to run regular content more often, I'd suggest asking for content that's challenging enough to warrant people wanting others to join them on it. I'd be sure to steer away from gating content to require people tea for it though. It's one thing to make something difficult enough that people will want others to join them but, if you try to force them, it's a sure bet that plenty of them won't want to.

    I'm fairly new to CO so, I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. Canada and the Desert are still there. Was there a time when they had content starting at level six? If so, or if you're asking them to make content that low, I'd definitely be all for that. More paths for people to choose from during leveling will give the game more replay value after all, so I'd see this as a good thing.

    As far as leveling gear goes, please refer back to my comments regarding nemesis' heirloom gear. Easy to get and will prove beneficial to every character that uses it since the bonuses scale according to your level and build.
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    arimikami wrote: »
    Was there a time when they had content starting at level six?

    Crisis in Canada was at level 6. You didn't get back until level 12. It was a good alternative to Westside.

    Desert Crisis is the same as it always was minus the coyotes.
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  • secksegaisecksegai Posts: 1,354 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    twg042370 wrote: »

    So by setting up the game like 90% of the other MMOs on the market you will eliminate the feeling there's not enough content and replace it with the feeling there's way too much of it simply because it takes a very long time to get them done.

    Why you could spend a month in Lemuria alone!

    While I agree that there should be more to do once you hit lvl40, and an alternate leveling path would be nice, I think the frequent complaint of "No content" is false when you think about the mechanics of the game itself compared to the other MMOs: CO simply doesn't make 75% of your gaming time walking from Point A to Point B.

    Poor padding.

    My 17 (soon to be 18) 40s say otherwise, that and previous MMO experience from SWG, WoW and CoH.

    There is a lack of content, regardless of the reduced "travel" time. I remember during my CoH days that this was touted as the CoH killer. After a year in, I can easily say my CoH experience was far superior. If not for the combat system and character customization there's no way I would have lasted as long as I have.

    I mean really, there's only 2 level 40 lairs, and TT I've done well over a hundred times, and vik wasn't worth the hassle until recently. Everything else is below 40, except maybe bronze king (can't remember) and being in Lemuria should say it all.
  • cptvanorcptvanor Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    twg042370 wrote: »
    Crisis in Canada was at level 6. You didn't get back until level 12. It was a good alternative to Westside.

    Actually at first, Westside was for lvl 13 or so and up. When you finished the tutorial you had the option of going to either the Canada Crisis or Desert Crisis. After you finished the Crisis and the other close missions, then you were ready to go to Westside.
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Actually at first, Westside was for lvl 13 or so and up. When you finished the tutorial you had the option of going to either the Canada Crisis or Desert Crisis. After you finished the Crisis and the other close missions, then you were ready to go to Westside.

    I never got the Desert before the teens so this was before my time.
    My 17 (soon to be 18) 40s say otherwise

    When a person hypes their bona fides to start, I no longer care to find out what their position is after that. I don't think I'm the only one.
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  • arimikamiarimikami Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    secksegai wrote: »
    My 17 (soon to be 18) 40s say otherwise, that and previous MMO experience from SWG, WoW and CoH.

    There is a lack of content, regardless of the reduced "travel" time. I remember during my CoH days that this was touted as the CoH killer. After a year in, I can easily say my CoH experience was far superior. If not for the combat system and character customization there's no way I would have lasted as long as I have.

    I mean really, there's only 2 level 40 lairs, and TT I've done well over a hundred times, and vik wasn't worth the hassle until recently. Everything else is below 40, except maybe bronze king (can't remember) and being in Lemuria should say it all.

    I think this game could definitely use more content but, I wouldn't say there's a severe lack of it. My first toon was a stealther and I made a point to only do what I needed to on each mission so I could see as much of the game as I could without outleveling and I still outleveled a lot of it. There's enough where it has replay value multiple times. More than anything, I think it needs more upper tier content. CoH had more content, sure but, that's hardly a fair comparison given how long that game was around and while CoV had more content than CO currently does, it wasn't THAT much more. Never played SWG so, I can't comment on that but, WoW makes you pay for additional content. Can't really compare that to this given that CO is free and it's around... what? Fifty dollars for each WoW expansion when it comes out?

    Oh, and there's more than two level 40 lairs in CO by the way. Perhaps you have a little more exploring to do before saying there isn't enough. :wink:
  • hyperstrikecohhyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Some of the examples in the OP reminded me of LOTRO.

    So much time is involved travelling in that MMO. I can remember trips between two points on horseback actually taking up to 20 mins. But the thing is that the game world is intentionally built on an epic scale with actual massive continents as an appeal and there's really a lot to explore, so it can't really be written off as a design flaw like what the OP is trying to point out that isn't in CO I'm assuming.

    And for people who're goal-oriented, rather than those who walk everywhere and turn over every last rock, the huge tracts of NOTHING in those games can be summed up thus:

    * A waste of time.


    One of the reasons I liked CoH. Especially after the advent of Ninja Run.

    Back in Issue 12, you had exactly 1 option. Sprint. Which was dog**** slow. And going across something like The Hollows, was ridiculously dangerous. I remember getting killed MULTIPLE TIMES on my way to a door mission on the other freakin' end f the zone, so I had to traverse areas holding enemies that were 4+ levels higher than me.

    With the advent of Ninja Run, you now had a pseudo travel power that wasn't as fast as Superspeed, nor could you jump as high as Super Jump. But for 95+% of the game, it was PERFECTLY acceptable. Hell, I know people who actually chose to completely forego traditional travel powers!

    Later came the reworking of the travel sets, allowing you to take the primary travel power (Flight, Superjump, Teleport, Superspeed) without needing prerequisite powers, and the ability to take it at very low levels.

    Add to that:
    • Access to Oroborous at level 15
    • The linking of the separate tram lines and unification of Rogue Islands Ferry
    • The advent of the hacked telepads
    • The TUNNEL network
    • The Mission Teleporter (in conjunction with the Assemble the Team vet power)
    • The Mission Transport power
    • The ability to use Shadowed Paths in First Ward

    With all of these, they made transportation a trivial thing for individuals and teams.

    Case in point. The Dr. Quaterfield Task Force, even BEFORE the refactoring of the Positron Task Force, was THE longest, most time-consuming Task Force in the game. There were groups that had to play this over multiple DAYS (8-16 hours). :eek: Due ENTIRELY to all the travel involved in the four massive Shadow Shard zones.

    Now, a horrible, slow run is 5-6 hours.
    A *meh* run is in the 4 hour range.
    A fast run is in the 2.5-3 hour range.


    I, for one, am for more options for rapid transit in the game. They IN NO WAY, inhibit explorers from combing over every last pixel in the game if they so desire. But they allow goal-oriented players to stop wasting time and get on with the stuff they want to do.

    Having fun!
  • rugrothrumborrugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Not at all. In fact they should offer double XP weekends more than once per year.
  • sanmercisanmerci Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Not at all. In fact they should offer double XP weekends more than once per year.

    ...the only word is: Amen!

    I cannot describe how bored I get between levels 25 and 35. Sure, there's plenty of content, but... I want something new. Or, better yet, to not feel like I have to slog through every mook who's managed to pull his thumb out of his hiney long enough to point a gun or throw a spear in order to make any sort of advancement. Is it too much to ask for more double XP events? And/Or longer durations? (Wasn't there one a couple years ago that did 8-hour buffs?)
  • arimikamiarimikami Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sanmerci wrote: »
    ...the only word is: Amen!

    I cannot describe how bored I get between levels 25 and 35. Sure, there's plenty of content, but... I want something new. Or, better yet, to not feel like I have to slog through every mook who's managed to pull his thumb out of his hiney long enough to point a gun or throw a spear in order to make any sort of advancement. Is it too much to ask for more double XP events? And/Or longer durations? (Wasn't there one a couple years ago that did 8-hour buffs?)

    There was one last month that did four hour buffs that you could renew for the entire duration of the event.
  • serendipitynowserendipitynow Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    The level speed here is extremely fast as it is.

    If you havent doen content levelling is fast and fun.

    If you have done all the content just grind smash alerts, you can get each level in under an hour with no xp buff or heirloom gear, even 39-40 easily.

    People saying its slow should be gratefull they didnt play something like everquest. I plaid that game for 8 years and never maxed out 1 character! But they kept adding content and increasing caps, something sadly missing here.

    But to re iterate, you can get from 1 to low 20s in a cple hours here, and 1-40 in around 20 hours, even with no xp buffs (i know i did it during the levelling contest - no xp buffs, only gear was what dropped, and previously id never levelled over mid 20s) Thats insanely fast to get from start to max level in an mmo, i challenge you to name one thats faster!
  • sanmercisanmerci Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    The level speed here is extremely fast as it is.

    If you havent doen content levelling is fast and fun.

    If you have done all the content just grind smash alerts, you can get each level in under an hour with no xp buff or heirloom gear, even 39-40 easily.

    People saying its slow should be gratefull they didnt play something like everquest. I plaid that game for 8 years and never maxed out 1 character! But they kept adding content and increasing caps, something sadly missing here.

    But to re iterate, you can get from 1 to low 20s in a cple hours here, and 1-40 in around 20 hours, even with no xp buffs (i know i did it during the levelling contest - no xp buffs, only gear was what dropped, and previously id never levelled over mid 20s) Thats insanely fast to get from start to max level in an mmo, i challenge you to name one thats faster!

    lol. You miss the point- leveling is fast and easy; it's just not super interesting. I also maxed out a toon from 1-40 during the leveling contest- I can't begin to describe how boring Black Fang's porno-shorts got during that time. I've played slower games, and one of the reasons I keep coming back to Champions is that it is fast. That said, being good doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement...

    And the levels between 25 and 35 are still a slog.
  • arimikamiarimikami Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sanmerci wrote: »
    lol. You miss the point- leveling is fast and easy; it's just not super interesting. I also maxed out a toon from 1-40 during the leveling contest- I can't begin to describe how boring Black Fang's porno-shorts got during that time. I've played slower games, and one of the reasons I keep coming back to Champions is that it is fast. That said, being good doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement...

    And the levels between 25 and 35 are still a slog.

    Then perhaps ask for more content to be added to the upper mid levels of the game instead of ways to level your characters quicker? CO isn't exactly brimming with endgame content so, I don't see how getting to level cap faser is going to help you with the issue of feeling like you don't have much to do and that what's there is more of a chore than fun.
  • rugrothrumborrugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    The level speed here is extremely fast as it is.

    If you havent doen content levelling is fast and fun.

    If you have done all the content just grind smash alerts, you can get each level in under an hour with no xp buff or heirloom gear, even 39-40 easily.

    People saying its slow should be gratefull they didnt play something like everquest. I plaid that game for 8 years and never maxed out 1 character! But they kept adding content and increasing caps, something sadly missing here.

    But to re iterate, you can get from 1 to low 20s in a cple hours here, and 1-40 in around 20 hours, even with no xp buffs (i know i did it during the levelling contest - no xp buffs, only gear was what dropped, and previously id never levelled over mid 20s) Thats insanely fast to get from start to max level in an mmo, i challenge you to name one thats faster!

    Because this isn't an explorative game where you find new things along the way and is more of a "sandbox MMO" it becomes tedious to get to the max level just so you can try out a new combination of costumes and powers. Only at higher levels you can try it all out. Sure there's the PTS but when you haven't played the character over the course of the leveling path how you use the powers isn't really embedded into your playstyle plus you can't transfer your unlocked/bought costume pieces over to PTS making the experience lackluster at best.

    To give only one double XP weekend per year is cruel. Even if it's just one double XP weekend per season (Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter) that would be a load off.
  • auldwolfauldwolf Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    *shudders*

    I think the reason this game has any kind of niche population is in part because it isn't cynical like other MMOs. I tried GW2 recently, and the cynical nature of that game turned me off really quickly. It had a number of things from the OP's post in it, despite ArenaNet's claims.

    Personally, I'm perfectly okay with there being one MMORPG out there that's not like that. When others I knew got tired of the cynical nature of GW2 and I remembered CO, I told them about this place, and now we're here. And I still poke people when I see them talking about these exact issues.

    It's like, for once, a game is just fun dagummit! JUST FUN! You know, fun? I'd almost forgotten what fun feels like. And it makes you wonder why people are so masochistic, and why they aren't playing this game. See, a lovely friend of mine was the one to bring up this exact point. She couldn't understand why someone would pick an overly cynical, apathetic, slow, plodding, and unfun experience over CO.

    She couldn't wrap her mind around it.

    For her, it was just so unlike WoW or anything else that it blew her away. IF Perfect World ever used this little factoid for advertising, they'd likely have thousands of new customers. They really need to get more people doing content development for CO, because CO still has the potential to be the best MMORPG I've ever played. It still does. And it does because it isn't cynical.

    I know that the OP and I are on the same wavelength. He made a beautifully ironic post explaining why cynical games full of padding and apathy towards their players are bad. And why eventually anyone over a certain age is just going to get sick of that sort of thing and look for something more enjoyable.

    You just get so tired of seeing cynical MMORPGs, don't you? I do.

    Man, I was so pumped for GW2.

    Cynical as all the rest.

    /sadface

    Okay, I'll stop lamenting, now, but yeah... this game is special because it's the way it is. I'm hoping that they'll never abandon that. The moment that they make the game cynical, or add in padding, or do things of that ilk, they're going to lose a substantial amount of their customers, I think. With the game as it is right now, it's easy to talk people into buying an LTS, because they want the costume options and the other benefits. But if it was cynical like GW2?

    If it was cynical like GW2... would any of us really want to play it?

    DOWN WITH PANTS. Also cynical MMORPGs.
  • secksegaisecksegai Posts: 1,354 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    auldwolf wrote: »
    *shudders*

    [...]
    If it was cynical like GW2... would any of us really want to play it?

    DOWN WITH PANTS. Also cynical MMORPGs.

    Since that entire post emphasized the cynical:

    Cynical - From merriam-webster online:

    1
    : captious, peevish
    2
    : having or showing the attitude or temper of a cynic: as
    a : contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives <those cynical men who say that democracy cannot be honest and efficient ? F. D. Roosevelt>
    b : based on or reflecting a belief that human conduct is motivated primarily by self-interest <a cynical ploy to win votes>

    Not quite sure what you're feeling there.

    As far as being distrustful of human nature and motives, there's a crowd of forumites that are distrustful of the game's direction and motives (lockboxes)
  • chaoswolf820chaoswolf820 Posts: 734 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    auldwolf wrote: »
    cynical

    To quote a certain Spaniard swordsman:

    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'm just waiting for the new neighborhoods to come along. Its been stated that it was being discussed mid last year and just recently being worked on in the latest Until report. Its so close I can taste it since most everything imminent in that report is out (except EXP gifting and Aura slots).

    All we have now is the Leviathan event and the anticipated Lair review. Then we can jump in to custom Sidekicks, Nemesis update and the Roin'esh returning.

    After that is "rumored" to be actual, full-blooded content in the form of zones.

    LINK
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