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Backup Devices, so what will it be?

wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
edited October 2012 in Champions Online Discussion
There are many who have raised concerns and unhappiness about the manner which these devices are nerfed.

Are these going to be ignored and hopefully they pass out from the forum and no one mention them again?

Will they be reconsidered or are these players going to be marginalised?

I am amazed and horribly disappointed at the selective hearing and whose voices get heard.

So in case my suggestion in the other threads are not read, here it is again:

Let the devices have separate cooldown

Let revitalise work on these devices

Reduce the level of these devices so that they do about 1/10 of their current damage output.

I would like to know if my suggestion has even been read, or considered or referred.
Post edited by wesleytansg on
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Comments

  • mainscrizzmainscrizz Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    There are many who have raised concerns and unhappiness about the manner which these devices are nerfed.

    Are these going to be ignored and hopefully they pass out from the forum and no one mention them again?

    Will they be reconsidered or are these players going to be marginalised?

    I am amazed and horribly disappointed at the selective hearing and whose voices get heard.

    So in case my suggestion in the other threads are not read, here it is again:

    Let the devices have separate cooldown

    Let revitalise work on these devices

    Reduce the level of these devices so that they do about 1/10 of their current damage output.

    I would like to know if my suggestion has even been read, or considered or referred.

    I agree with everything listed here.
    make it actually useful
    isn't that the point of a rare device?
    xD
    __________________________
    @Scrizz :biggrin:
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,073 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    .


    Agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed
  • serendipitynowserendipitynow Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Main fix that they did that needs redressing is the shared cooldown.

    Either it needs removing or rebalancing so that the shared part of the cooldown is 1/6th the cooldown placed on the device used (similar to the mechanics of active defence/offence), so that having more than 1 isnt a pointless waste as it is now (and wasnt before!)

    Revitalise not working on them was the 1 fix that WAS needed. Having these out near perma was way overpowered.

    Damage/level of devices could be lowered a little maybe (not convinced at all though) But these are the main signature heroes coming to our aid, not sidekicks - they should be more powerful than us!
  • thetwilightedthetwilighted Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    But these are the main signature heroes coming to our aid, not sidekicks - they should be more powerful than us!

    These 'signature heroes' get their butts handed to them on a regular basis. Defender got owned by Black Talon in the frickin' Tutorial. Sapphire got mind controlled into a wedding by Foxbat and needed an escort out of a vampire crypt. Witchcraft got kicked in the panties while exploring the Quiphotic dimension. Nighthawk couldn't be bothered to take down Franklin Stone's gunship because he was too busy trying to find 'questionable material' on Stone's computer. (It also sounded like he needed a throat drop or a laxative. Maybe both...)

    Mega-Destroid event aside, these characters need the players' characters to do these missions because they can't handle this stuff themselves. That said, the only reason the Backups do as much damage as they do (in character, anyway) is because it's a surprise attack. Medusa's busy trying to take down OmegaMan and suddenly Sapphire shows up and before she can even think "What the fudge?", she gets a Sapphireblast in the face.

    What would be fitting (and somewhat hilarious) is if the Backup NPC automatically crumpled or collapsed to the ground at the end of the power's duration. Level 60 is a bit too high for them, imo (unless they're planning on raising the players' level cap to 50 (yeah, right)). Making the NPCs level 50 would be sufficient for them to pack a sufficient punch in the amount of time that they're up.
  • gammabreakergammabreaker Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Double the duration. Reduce the cooldown to 5m, shared, and unaffected by reductions. Reduce to level 40 so the DPS is ~2,000 (approximately what a non-windowlicking player can do). That makes them cool, moderately useful, but not MOTHER OF GOD WHAT JUST HIT ME powerful.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,444 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I don't expect them to make changes at this point. Actually...

    I never expected them to make changes after the nerf. It's easier to make lame changes than to balance.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I don't expect them to make changes at this point. Actually...

    I never expected them to make changes after the nerf. It's easier to make lame changes than to balance.

    I am aware but does not mean we should give up lobbying
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,444 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I want them changed to your specifications. Put the devices back the way they were but to our character level.

    But I'm looking to the reality that the devs can't be bothered to rebalance them. They already did so recently and won't be issued to make the changes since work hours was already made to nerf them before.

    From a business sense working double hours for the same average effect is actually putting you in the red. Regardless of whether the final product is more useful for the customer or not.
  • neuraldamageneuraldamage Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I don't expect them to make changes at this point. Actually...

    I never expected them to make changes after the nerf. It's easier to make lame changes than to balance.

    ^^^^^
    This.

    The great and powerful Oz has spoken.... :eek:

    People are broken. - Lum the Mad
  • serendipitynowserendipitynow Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I see it more as fixing a mistake

    Before they nerfed them having more than 1 had a use, after more than 1 is a pointless waste. Their fix caused that problem for people with more than 1 and they need to fix it.

    Its not a second balance pass (which has happened before anyway) Its fixing their own mess
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,073 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    These 'signature heroes' get their butts handed to them on a regular basis. Defender got owned by Black Talon in the frickin' Tutorial. Sapphire got mind controlled into a wedding by Foxbat and needed an escort out of a vampire crypt. Witchcraft got kicked in the panties while exploring the Quiphotic dimension. Nighthawk couldn't be bothered to take down Franklin Stone's gunship because he was too busy trying to find 'questionable material' on Stone's computer. (It also sounded like he needed a throat drop or a laxative. Maybe both...)


    Something I remember, They like to be killed by henchman or suicide in lava at UNITY mission. xD
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Bumped up in the hope of it getting noticed and action taken.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,444 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Changing them to bound to Account would fix this up pretty quickly. It would certainly make it a lot less worse.
  • hubrixhubrix Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Ultimately the changes didn't really fix the problem of the large burst they can give so I do agree with the changes proposed in the opening post. The Revitalize part in particular, I mean that's the entire point of Revitalize after all. I don't know about 1/10, not enough testing has been done to see just exactly how much DPS having multiple of them does. It's easy to see they were powerful but no one gave an exact measure of just how powerful.

    Making them account bound is also reasonable band aid until (if?) they decide to revisit the issue.
  • ariesmajorariesmajor Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    There are many who have raised concerns and unhappiness about the manner which these devices are nerfed.

    Are these going to be ignored and hopefully they pass out from the forum and no one mention them again?

    Will they be reconsidered or are these players going to be marginalised?

    I am amazed and horribly disappointed at the selective hearing and whose voices get heard.

    So in case my suggestion in the other threads are not read, here it is again:

    Let the devices have separate cooldown

    Let revitalise work on these devices

    Reduce the level of these devices so that they do about 1/10 of their current damage output.

    I would like to know if my suggestion has even been read, or considered or referred.

    Could not agree more, but apparently the devs only listen to "certain" people, and if thats not the case then....they sure have a hell of a way to rush a hotfix without sitting down for a few hours to re-asses the situation.
  • serendipitynowserendipitynow Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Changing them to bound to Account would fix this up pretty quickly. It would certainly make it a lot less worse.

    actually that would be just as bad. Instead of more than 1 per chr being a waste, then more than 1 per account would be a waste as all could share 1 and get no benefit from more than 1 per account.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,444 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    actually that would be just as bad. Instead of more than 1 per chr being a waste, then more than 1 per account would be a waste as all could share 1 and get no benefit from more than 1 per account.

    None of what you said makes sense.

    To clear it up making them account-wide would make it so more than just one of my characters can have them and I don't have to farm for the devices over and over again since the event isn't coming back. And since having more than any 1 bound to a character is a waste.
  • serendipitynowserendipitynow Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    None of what you said makes sense.

    To clear it up making them account-wide would make it so more than just one of my characters can have them and I don't have to farm for the devices over and over again since the event isn't coming back. And since having more than any 1 bound to a character is a waste.

    Before the nerf was a reason to have more than 1 bound per character so people did. After the nerf more than 1 per chr is a pointless waste - that is what needs fixing

    Making them bound to account more than 1 per chr is still a waste, only now, more than 1 per account is as that 1 per chr that was usefull can now be shared by all characters on the account.

    So that doesnt fix the issue, it only compounds it as i said, since you need no more than 1 per account so any extras are still a pointless waste.

    They need to make having more than 1 be beneficial, and the only way of doing that is having some global cooldown and a personal cooldown that is longer, the same mechanic as active offence and active defence
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,444 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Since they are keeping it to shared cooldown, I just want them to be shared with my other characters and not all 6 of them stuck on a single character.
  • serendipitynowserendipitynow Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Since they are keeping it to shared cooldown, I just want them to be shared with my other characters and not all 6 of them stuck on a single character.

    No one knows what they may or may not keep or change.

    Rather than asking for a change that doesnt fix the issue, ask for one that does, ala the same cooldown mechanic as actives that makes multiple backups worthwhile.
  • darqauradarqaura Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    No one knows what they may or may not keep or change.

    Rather than asking for a change that doesn't fix the issue, ask for one that does, ala the same cooldown mechanic as actives that makes multiple backups worthwhile.

    The devs are more than likely NOT to make that change.

    From what I've seen they DON'T want multiple use on one character of many different ones.

    It makes more sense to have them be move-able from one character to another.

    Having them bound on one character is completely useless since there's no real difference between them except for cosmetics. If they all continue to share cooldown there's absolutely no reason to have multiples on one character. Except for RP reasons.

    However the main RP reason I've heard spouting is calling them up like the justice league. Being able to only call up one at a time makes that impossible, so you might as well be able to send your "extras" to other characters on your account.

    As they are now there's no reason to ever bother to farm for multiples of these.

    If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
  • serendipitynowserendipitynow Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    The devs are more than likely NOT to make that change.

    From what I've seen they DON'T want multiple use on one character of many different ones.

    It makes more sense to have them be move-able from one character to another.

    Having them bound on one character is completely useless since there's no real difference between them except for cosmetics. If they all continue to share cooldown there's absolutely no reason to have multiples on one character. Except for RP reasons.

    However the main RP reason I've heard spouting is calling them up like the justice league. Being able to only call up one at a time makes that impossible, so you might as well be able to send your "extras" to other characters on your account.

    As they are now there's no reason to ever bother to farm for multiples of these.

    Im not asking for them to be taken off global cooldown, just the global part to be less than the per device part, the same mechanic as actives.

    for example using a backup places a 30 minute cooldown on it and a 5 minute cooldown on similar (other backup) devices.

    Now more than 1 has a use and isnt broken by having multiples out at once, or even multiples per fight.

    Or if those times arent suitable they can be played with, but there is NO reason to make more than 1 of them be the pointless waste this fix made them after the fact.

    Its a broken fix as it invalidates what was possible before and it needs resolving as such.
  • neojin777neojin777 Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    A little tip for everybody who has a backup device.
    In hi pan alerts get 30 stacks of positive chi, it raises your character's damage
    (reaper's embrace dmg went from 5.5k to 17.8k) but i also found out, that backup devices
    scale their damage with the chi, aswell. I can solo hi pan in less than 15 seconds from
    full hp to 0%, hitting 200-270k with each hit.


    enjoy :)
  • neojin777neojin777 Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    BUMP this. so everybody can use their backup devices to the max.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    neojin777 wrote: »
    BUMP this. so everybody can use their backup devices to the max.

    LOL bug, OP, nerf it, fix it. We have seen how this goes.
  • neojin777neojin777 Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    LOL bug, OP, nerf it, fix it. We have seen how this goes.

    Not sure if sarcasm... but i do partially agree with you. It in fact is the 30 chi
    stacks, that grant the massive damage bonus, with 0 chi my ironclad hits only 60k.
    Have you noticed the bugged backup device cd timer? It starts counting backwards at 30 minutes,
    then on 1 second it jumps right back to 13 sometimes 12 minutes and 30 + 13 is not 30.
    is it...
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    neojin777 wrote: »
    Not sure if sarcasm... but i do partially agree with you. It in fact is the 30 chi
    stacks, that grant the massive damage bonus, with 0 chi my ironclad hits only 60k.
    Have you noticed the bugged backup device cd timer? It starts counting backwards at 30 minutes,
    then on 1 second it jumps right back to 13 sometimes 12 minutes and 30 + 13 is not 30.
    is it...

    It is definitely sarcasm. It will be a matter of time we will have people screaming for nerf. I have not logged into the game for over a week now. So now the CD timer is bugged? LOL I wonder what else will be broken.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bumped and hope someone notice and bothers
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Bumped, please fix the devices properly, nerf their damage but leave their cooldowns separate and revitalise-able.
  • agentnx5agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Wes please don't take this the wrong way, but don't you benefit the most from having things revitalize-able? I mean, you're the one with the so-called "touch myself build" right? I'm wondering if you've considered your own bias on the subject.

    I had to consider that myself when they nerfed AoPM not all the long ago. I didn't like having my main's build being made weaker, even if it was for "the greater good." Heck I still don't! Poor Alyssa...

    That's something that really bugs me about Cryptic, they give a taste of something really good then take it back without even so much as an "oops! We messed up", let alone refunding you for what you spend in-game currency on.

    The worst example I ever saw of this is what Gentleman_Crush was saying about crafting in his personal chat channel that then was totally reversed when it came down to considering those expensive blueprints (i.e.: the Greater Servitor Serum Recipe). Or the crafting halls that were eventually, partially re-added but wow it only took them what... months? I know some people who have quit the game and vowed not to come back, and they haven't, over crap like this. And I'm talking LTS members too! What a waste...

    So yeah I can relate to what you're feeling, but I feel the need to point out that you may have self-bias here.
  • wimpazoidwimpazoid Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    This new direction of emphasis on devices is rather disappointing. Supplementary devices should be more of a fun aspect providing some amount of usefulness. When a device that over excels and sets itself apart, it takes away focus.

    I would still like to give credit to the powers selection mechanics in CO. Lesson to be learned, Cryptic. Never for one moment overshadow your main attraction with sidelines that may be regarded as necessities.
  • agentnx5agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    This new direction of emphasis on devices is rather disappointing. Supplementary devices should be more of a fun aspect providing some amount of usefulness. When a device that over excels and sets itself apart, it takes away focus.

    I would still like to give credit to the powers selection mechanics in CO. Lesson to be learned, Cryptic. Never for one moment overshadow your main attraction with sidelines that may be regarded as necessities.

    I agree 100%.

    Related reading: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=186641
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    agentnx5 wrote: »
    Wes please don't take this the wrong way, but don't you benefit the most from having things revitalize-able? I mean, you're the one with the so-called "touch myself build" right? I'm wondering if you've considered your own bias on the subject.

    I had to consider that myself when they nerfed AoPM not all the long ago. I didn't like having my main's build being made weaker, even if it was for "the greater good." Heck I still don't! Poor Alyssa...

    That's something that really bugs me about Cryptic, they give a taste of something really good then take it back without even so much as an "oops! We messed up", let alone refunding you for what you spend in-game currency on.

    The worst example I ever saw of this is what Gentleman_Crush was saying about crafting in his personal chat channel that then was totally reversed when it came down to considering those expensive blueprints (i.e.: the Greater Servitor Serum Recipe). Or the crafting halls that were eventually, partially re-added but wow it only took them what... months? I know some people who have quit the game and vowed not to come back, and they haven't, over crap like this. And I'm talking LTS members too! What a waste...

    So yeah I can relate to what you're feeling, but I feel the need to point out that you may have self-bias here.

    I agree that revitalise will make the devices most useful for a toon that focus on revitalise which my toon does specialise in. However, if you take note of how I also wanted the damage nerfed to a suitable level even 1/10 of original. I also will not be the one benefitting the most from it because I only have 1 of these devices which is still in the bank; I have not played the game for 2 weeks now. There are players who have 5 of these all on the same toon. I think for game play purpose, it may be nice to be able to summon all 5 heroes at the same time and to be able to use them frequently. The main concern about them being OP comes from the fact they were doing very high damage output. If they were dealing damage at the level of say fireflight, there will not be any issues at all. With the device having 30 minute cooldowns, the frequency that these devices can be use is so low that they become almost useless in most game play. If the damage is scaled down and frequency of use increased then they become useful even for majority of PvE gameplay.

    I actually gave an example of how it may even fit a nice theme of time manipulation. A character with time manipulation will be able to pull the heroes from another time zone to help him fight. This can be all 5 at the same time which can be rather taxing on the character and after using all 5 at the same time, he needs to rest for about 30 plus seconds before he is recharged and able to summon the heroes again using revitalise. As some suggested the upper limit of these devices in the 15 seconds is 200000 damage. Bring them to 1/10 will be about 20k per 30 seconds if we include the cooldown time even with revitalise working at max. That is very modest coming to about 800 damage per second. If that is still to high a damage then bring it to 1/20 which to me may be too low.

    More importantly, to make them also useful for all normal, non-revitalise builds, I also suggest reducing their cooldown to 1.5 minutes or so. This means even normal builds can use them frequently while revitalise builds can at most use them 3 times as often that's all. I believe I may have missed this out in the first post on this thread but I actually mentioned it in PTS. So what I am proposing is in a way an all round better fix to the devices imo.
  • wimpazoidwimpazoid Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Your argument is a bit of a stretch. You average the summons' DPS over cooldown periods (that's skewed maths, 30 mins is so far a non-existent potential for a boss fight unless you want to solo gravitar) and claim they do worse than firefight so that shared cooldown is overkill, and yet you ask for their DPS to be nerfed to firefight's level. There's no point to use the summons on PVE trash eg. a minion with 2k or a villian with 4k hp. That is the actual scenario of majority of PVE gameplay. How many times have you actually used firefight on PVE trash mobs? If so, is it actual utility or for fun? It's faster to simply mass murder them with AOEs.

    I can tell you how often a player dumped a summon in the recent bloodmoon and shot straight to the top of the scoreboard. That is a better use of such high DPS devices, albeit making fools out of those that put much effort into their builds. At least that player can't zone switch and top every special event open mission with said device due to the cooldown. Worse DPS than firefight? Hardly. The deathlord didn't last 2 mins. Nerf that DPS, and it becomes another forgettable device which no longer appeal to the majority without INT and revitalise. As it is, having just one of them summons grants a large DPS boost and makes it a worthwhile device comparatively. I would want such a device.

    However, you're asking the devices to be changed to cater for a very specific build. I understand how an INT base toon with revitalise using a single spike AOE power such as unleashed rage can stand to benefit from cycling hard hitting devices (or simply stacking attack devices that work with revitalise) while the main attack is on cooldown. That's like having 5 extra attack powers over the average freeform leaving actual power picks for buffs/heals to make him near unkillable. And I understand why the devs didn't want it that way.

    My suggestion in one of the multiple threads before this one: One time unbind and return the devices to inventory for the benefit of early adopters of bugged devices or have them bound to account instead.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    Your argument is a bit of a stretch. You average the summons' DPS over cooldown periods (that's skewed maths, 30 mins is so far a non-existent potential for a boss fight unless you want to solo gravitar) and claim they do worse than firefight so that shared cooldown is overkill, and yet you ask for their DPS to be nerfed to firefight's level. There's no point to use the summons on PVE trash eg. a minion with 2k or a villian with 4k hp. That is the actual scenario of majority of PVE gameplay. How many times have you actually used firefight on PVE trash mobs? If so, is it actual utility or for fun? It's faster to simply mass murder them with AOEs.

    It is in no way skewed because other than fighting really big bosses, when would you possibly want to use a device that hits for supposedly max of 200k in 15secs and then cools down for 30 min? As such to calculate the damage output over time makes sense. I ask for their damage to be nerfed down and cooldown to be cut down, remove shared cooldown and allow revitalise to work on the cooldowns. There are villians and master villians with more than 4k hp I am sure you are aware. Players do not summon fireflight because there is only 1 of them and it takes 1.5 minutes to cooldown. If it can be summon frequently, pet users will be using him like their hoards of pets. Pet users can then use them against both regular mobs and also bosses.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    I can tell you how often a player dumped a summon in the recent bloodmoon and shot straight to the top of the scoreboard. That is a better use of such high DPS devices, albeit making fools out of those that put much effort into their builds. At least that player can't zone switch and top every special event open mission with said device due to the cooldown. Worse DPS than firefight? Hardly. The deathlord didn't last 2 mins. Nerf that DPS, and it becomes another forgettable device which no longer appeal to the majority without INT and revitalise. As it is, having just one of them summons grants a large DPS boost and makes it a worthwhile device comparatively. I would want such a device.

    My point exactly, their damage output is too high. People are precisely concerned about the ridiculous high spike damage. So cut the damage but get rid of the cooldown limitations.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    However, you're asking the devices to be changed to cater for a very specific build. I understand how an INT base toon with revitalise using a single spike AOE power such as unleashed rage can stand to benefit from cycling hard hitting devices (or simply stacking attack devices that work with revitalise) while the main attack is on cooldown. That's like having 5 extra attack powers over the average freeform leaving actual power picks for buffs/heals to make him near unkillable. And I understand why the devs didn't want it that way.

    On the contrary, you are looking at nerfing a device because of a specific build, but my suggestion is meant to benefit all users regardless of build. By lowering the cooldown for the devices all players can use them more frequently. Only difference is a revitalise build gets to use it about 3 times more often assuming the cooldown is now 1.5min. Now a revitalise build is limited because they so choose to forfeit almost all other possible attacks in exchange for the extreme cooldown. At the same time with the nerfing of the damage output, there is no issue of them being OP.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    My suggestion in one of the multiple threads before this one: One time unbind and return the devices to inventory for the benefit of early adopters of bugged devices or have them bound to account instead.

    This is also needed for players who feel they want to move the devices.
  • wimpazoidwimpazoid Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'm sorry wes. You are too close to see subjective enough and your argument shows. Your maths is deceiving.

    Currently with shared cooldown:
    What it means to general players:
    200K over 15s = 13333 DPS damage boost

    What it means to a low DPS INT/Revitalise build (your logic as you see it):
    (Basically your build if you want to solo cosmics as an unkillable tank)
    200k over 1815s = 110 DPS

    What you want, no shared cooldown, reduced cooldown, revitalise, reduce damage:
    What it means to general players (90s cooldown):
    (Assuming you get to use it 3 times in an average open mission boss even lasts 5 mins)
    60k over 315s = 190 DPS

    What it means to a low DPS INT/Revitalise build (30s cooldown):
    20k over 45s = 444 DPS
    (Just having 3 of them devices on your build)
    20k over 15s = 1333 DPS

    The average player needs 7 of these devices to be on par in DPS with your build that needs a mere 3. You are asking to make the devices useless for everyone else but a very specific build.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    I'm sorry wes. You are too close to see subjective enough and your argument shows. Your maths is deceiving.

    Currently with shared cooldown:
    What it means to general players:
    200K over 15s = 13333 DPS damage boost

    What it means to a low DPS INT/Revitalise build (your logic as you see it):
    (Basically your build if you want to solo cosmics as an unkillable tank)
    200k over 1815s = 110 DPS

    What you want, no shared cooldown, reduced cooldown, revitalise, reduce damage:
    What it means to general players (90s cooldown):
    (Assuming you get to use it 3 times in an average open mission boss even lasts 5 mins)
    60k over 315s = 190 DPS

    What it means to a low DPS INT/Revitalise build (30s cooldown):
    20k over 45s = 444 DPS
    (Just having 3 of them devices on your build)
    20k over 15s = 1333 DPS

    The average player needs 7 of these devices to be on par in DPS with your build that needs a mere 3. You are asking to make the devices useless for everyone else but a very specific build.

    Huh? Why are we looking at 200k over 15 secs? It is currently 200k over 30 minutes because of the cooldown. This makes it 111 dps for anyone. Assuming the damage is nerfed to 1/10 with cd of 90 secs, to get 200k of damage will take 15 minutes. Assuming they also do not also share cooldown as I suggested and players can use 5 of these devices, then 200k damage can be achieved in 3 minutes. But of course 200k we must always remember is the upper limit, the devices do not all hit for that much. If I go along by your maths, then with all 5 devices running but damage reduced to 1/10, then dps will be half of 13333 which still gives a nice 6667 dps in that 15 secs.

    I am actually very objective about this and my arguments are sound. Btw being objective is being unbiased not subjective, subjective actually suggests being biased. Sorry, occuptational hazard.

    Assuming we reduce the damage to 1/10 with 90 seconds cooldown, that is 20k over 90 secs or 222 dps. Now, without the shared cooldown, anyone can use 5 at the same time making it 1110 dps. This is not high at all by your standards especially since you are such a good dps builder.

    On a revitalised build, because 90 seconds cooldown is still too long for gear and int to bring down sufficiently, so the fastest a full revitalise user can bring it to cool is about 30 secs (at the very very maximum but in actual fact it is more like once every 34 seconds but we shall work with 30 secs since it is easier). This effectively gives a pure revitalise build a 3330 dps (as I mentioned 3 times more) if he summons all 5 once every 30 seconds.

    That is still not very high dps if we look at your typical dps builds that deals about 2k per tick making it 4k dps. Do not forget, any dps build will still be able to use all 5 backups for the additional 1110 dps to add to their existing maintains be it lightning arc, lightning storm, avalanche, chainsaw, devour essence etc by using the devices once every 90 seconds whereas to maintain those 5 backups to cool at 30 seconds a revitalise toon will be constantly using his energy builder with at most an unleashed rage thrown in once every 14 seconds. Might I add that we are talking about the dps toon having no cooldown bonuses at all from gear or intel to bring the cooldown to say about 70 secs instead of the full 90 secs. On the other hand having full cooldown gear with high int will still not be able to bring the cooldown to less than 30 seconds even with revitalise.

    What I see that you like about the current devices are the fact they give extremely high spike damage which helps put people to the top of bloodmoon events especially cases where the boss do not have millions of HP but hundreds of thousands. My take on that is their damage is too high. The devices also make them unfriendly for duel if people so choose to use them that way. My proposed fix is from what I see it a win-win for all. Your calculation makes the assumption of damage purely coming from devices and no other powers. The contrary is other builds have all other attacks available to them. A revitalise build specialises on cooldown of devices and will be using energy builder all the time.

    Assuming we look at a geared toon with 70 seconds cd on the devices versus an actual revitalise toon which has 35 secs cd (this is closer to real figures), then the dps gained from devices for the revitalise toon is only about double that of other well build toons. In other words more like 20000 dmg/70sec*5backups, 1429dps vs 20000 dmg/35sec*5backups, 2857dps. Or in the case of just 1 device then 286dps vs 572dps, still more than 111dps. However you also have to include all the other dps from other normal power attacks.

    Undoubtedly what I propose will give more dps to cooldown builds. I never deny that. But I am not making them useless for others. Revitalise and cooldown is meant to gain benefits from using devices like bloodmoon devices and other charged devices with cooldown. As such it is only natural that cooldown builds stand to gain from the backup devices. However, by bringing down the cooldown to 90 secs and reducing the damage to 1/10, everyone will still be able to use them. Imagine if the cooldown is still at 30 minutes but benefit from revitalise, that means revitalise can use them once every 30 seconds but everyone else can only use them once every 1800 secs. I do not propse lowering to 6o secs cooldown for everyone because when cd is at 60secs a revitalise build may be able too keep all 5 devices up nearly infinitely which benefits revitalise builds even more.

    I do hope a dev or a community rep can read this. I do belief my proposed solution is quite objective.
  • wimpazoidwimpazoid Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I see I've actually not taken into consideration 'no shared cooldown' of yours in my calculations. My error there. But the key point is the device becomes yet another forgettable one. More on that later.
    What I see that you like about the current devices are the fact they give extremely high spike damage which helps put people to the top of bloodmoon events especially cases where the boss do not have millions of HP but hundreds of thousands.

    And no, I don't have to like anything about the devices, not the high spike you assume I do, since I don't own any of them. And because of the nature of the devices, people using it for boss events isn't far-fetched. I hence have no idea if the cooldown starts after the active period so I always add 15s to account for it.
    Huh? Why are we looking at 200k over 15 secs? It is currently 200k over 30 minutes because of the cooldown. This makes it 111 dps for anyone.

    Because this is reality, and what the device is spec'ed for. For example. we would not arbitrarily add 5 hours after a fight lasting 2 mins and say DPS equates to 0.0001 when fighting no longer occurs, because it doesn't make sense. I had said that's what it means to most people, this is a device granting a significant DPS boost over 15s. If the device originally had a low cooldown to be used persistently frequent in continuous fighting, it will be another matter.
    *calculations**snip*

    Bottomline, you are assuming the benefits of 5 backups for significance when most players barely have 1. And you have nerfed that 1 device to hell. And no, to see what the device brings to the table doesn't need to consider the DPS of other powers because that's a variable. These devices won't necessarily see utility in normal PVE as you claim, because there's an opportunity cost in activating powers. When mobs may not last 15s under an AOE power, would you consider activating the device instead? Especially when you can kill more with an AOE that yields higher DPS.

    On a personal level, you mentioned my fondness for DPS builds, and I know you hardly use devices, not even firefight. If you do get your wish, hopefully it won't be an insignificant victory, when the device turns into something that can be so easily passed up. I'd rather see you in the game refining Paragon than here.
    Undoubtedly what I propose will give more dps to cooldown builds. I never deny that. But I am not making them useless for others. Revitalise and cooldown is meant to gain benefits from using devices like bloodmoon devices and other charged devices with cooldown. As such it is only natural that cooldown builds stand to gain from the backup devices. However, by bringing down the cooldown to 90 secs and reducing the damage to 1/10, everyone will still be able to use them. Imagine if the cooldown is still at 30 minutes but benefit from revitalise, that means revitalise can use them once every 30 seconds but everyone else can only use them once every 1800 secs. I do not propse lowering to 6o secs cooldown for everyone because when cd is at 60secs a revitalise build may be able too keep all 5 devices up nearly infinitely which benefits revitalise builds even more.

    Rather than changing the nature of a summon champion device to a bloodmoon device, something it is obviously not. Why not suggest it so one can stack 5 firefights with no shared and reduced cooldown? May actually be easier... If you think that suggestion is absurd, then...

    And let's just say they did change it to your specifications. What would be done about the foreseeable backlash from the population of players who had used these devices the way they allowed them to? You are appealing with suggestions closer to your own heart rather than rationalizing for the greater community as you claim.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    And no, I don't have to like anything about the devices, not the high spike you assume I do, since I don't own any of them. And because of the nature of the devices, people using it for boss events isn't far-fetched. I hence have no idea if the cooldown starts after the active period so I always add 15s to account for it.

    The devices start cooling on activation if I am not wrong so you are right to add 15 secs.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    Because this is reality, and what the device is spec'ed for. For example. we would not arbitrarily add 5 hours after a fight lasting 2 mins and say DPS equates to 0.0001 when fighting no longer occurs, because it doesn't make sense. I had said that's what it means to most people, this is a device granting a significant DPS boost over 15s. If the device originally had a low cooldown to be used persistently frequent in continuous fighting, it will be another matter.

    You are right, we should not arbitrarily add 5 hours, but 30 min is the time required to cool the device hence it is not arbitrarily. Furthermore let's go along with idea of a 2minute fight. If we use all 5 devices since there is not shared cooldown, then it will achieve the same 200k damage by 105th sec (3min 15sec fight). If the fight drags on, by the 285th sec (4min 45sec fight) this will be 300k and by the 375th sec (6min 15sec fight) this will be 400k. Now, I do believe that major boss fights will last that long at least. Furthermore, this is on a toon without int or gear to provide cd bonus hence the full 90sec cd. Not just that, they work in small fights now, lo and behold, whereas the current device with 30 min cd will see people holding back from using them.

    And honestly, given its current implementation of 30 minutes CD, who would use it in a fight which last only 15 seconds perhaps other than nimbus which is already hell packed and laggy and getting top place will not gaurantee a blood moon device drop.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    Bottomline, you are assuming the benefits of 5 backups for significance when most players barely have 1. And you have nerfed that 1 device to hell.

    Agreed on this, I too have only 1 such device and it is kept in the bank. The more backup devices, the more you will benefit from the no-shared cooldown quite logically. However, my proposed fix is meant for the mega-d invasion to return and continue to drop the devices and players to farm for them. I dare say the event was fun for most players and I could see heaps of people crowding around waiting for the mega-d to spawn and hopping to next zone to catch more of them.

    The fact that 1 device is so called nerfed to hell is not really true. It takes a 15min15sec fight to get the same 200k damage of its current state assuming no cd bonuses at all. in half that time, there will still be 100k damage. Any major boss fights like Gravitar and Cosmics will last that long at least. As for the supervillains or legendary with hundred thousands HP then the current implementation is worse reducing these to less than half the HP in 15 seconds, trivialising the fight altogether.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    And no, to see what the device brings to the table doesn't need to consider the DPS of other powers because that's a variable.

    On the contrary, I have to consider other powers when looking at these devices because of the fact that you claim that I make these suggestions for my own benefit rather than the whole community. Since it implies that a revitalise build is going to gain so much from it, the problem is revitalise is DEPENDENT on a POWER known as energy builder. To achieve the 30 seconds cooldown, the energy builder needs to be used constantly. Do not even tell me it is possible to fire an attack in between the 2 secs of energy builder cooldown effect on revitalise. The most you can add for dps on top of these devices are the unleashed rage every 14 secs. However, players who do not use revitalise will still benefit from these devices every 90 sec probably less on top of their normal attacks. So how can we not consider the dps of the other powers? I need to show you that it is not OP for revitalise builds. Having said that, revitalise users will indeed stand to gain from having the cooldown effect which is common sense since they can use the devices more often which is the purpose of revitalise in the first place. But by reducing the cd for every to 90 sec everyone also can use them more frequently. In the calculation of my previous post, by comparing to other builds and other powers I showed that the backup devices are not OP on a revitalise build.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    These devices won't necessarily see utility in normal PVE as you claim, because there's an opportunity cost in activating powers. When mobs may not last 15s under an AOE power, would you consider activating the device instead? Especially when you can kill more with an AOE that yields higher DPS.

    I am certain they will see more utility than the current 30 minutes cooldown. Pet users will use them, revitalise users will use them. As for the opportunity cost, if you are referring to the cast time, if I am not wrong, they are click activate.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    On a personal level, you mentioned my fondness for DPS builds, and I know you hardly use devices, not even firefight. If you do get your wish, hopefully it won't be an insignificant victory, when the device turns into something that can be so easily passed up. I'd rather see you in the game refining Paragon than here.

    Sadly I am not in game because of the recent spate of fixes which seems to be hasty quick fixes with hardly any thinking through or in response to selective feedback from the "louder, more vocal" members of the forum.

    The backup devices is one such instance. The shared cooldown and revitalise non-effect apparently are linked whether intended or not. They implemented it like 3 days after the event with no effort whatsoever to compensate players who had spent time to farm or money to buy them and slotted multiple of them into their device slots. I know you suggested unbinding them but you also know this did not come true.

    Imbue which is meant for ONH gauranteed crit (of course you know this) will be "fixed" to become an active offense with about a max of 30% bonus to crit chance and severity on low health instead of fixing the part about it not being consumed by heals. Official reason? Oh they cannot fix it as intended. As I posted in one of the PTS threads, that is not much of a reason. It is like hiring a person to clean your bungalow and the person tells you your bungalow is too dirty but he will tear it down and build you a clean flat. I know programming is tough as hell especially working with other people's code. But Imbue is not such a critical game breaking bug as compared to many mission bugs and in such cases, a later proper fix is better than a poor fix.

    I am not going into game because I do not want to spend all my time farming and money buying stuff just to have them becoming useless because of some sore losers crying nerf on the forum. Let things stabilise and I will see. I have gone through a few cycles of rebuilding my toons already. From pre-alert to post-alert the drastic change was acceptable because it was meant to be a system wide improvement. However having to refarm and retcon my build everytime people cry nerf is just a waste of time and money. Jewel is very patient but I spent all of mine at work.

    I still love this game for its customizing, ability to create your own superhero of nearly any design with nearly any power combi you wish. I was about to retire Paragon once I got my last R9 con mod and start on gearing my next toon. But all the time and effort spent seems to go down the drain when they implement changes to powers. It is not about a free retcon token. It is about the time spent farming and money spent buying rank-up catalysts as well.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    Rather than changing the nature of a summon champion device to a bloodmoon device, something it is obviously not. Why not suggest it so one can stack 5 firefights with no shared and reduced cooldown? May actually be easier... If you think that suggestion is absurd, then...

    5 fireflights at the same time will have a similar effect although fireflight does not seem to deal close to 20k damage in 15sec and it has a long charge time and seems slower because of the zombie effect. One is blue the other is purple. My suggestion is not a summon device becoming a bloodmoon device. I suggest that it functions like a bloodmoon device but at a higher level. The click activate and higher damage (20k not 200k) is good enough. I also personally like an avengers assemble feel rather than an undead priest. But that is just thematic concerns.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    And let's just say they did change it to your specifications. What would be done about the foreseeable backlash from the population of players who had used these devices the way they allowed them to? You are appealing with suggestions closer to your own heart rather than rationalizing for the greater community as you claim.

    I am not sure what kind of backlash you refer to. Assuming the changes I proposed gets carried out, I foresee many players will be farming for them. Their prices will not be 5k but more like 1k, about that of a Darkspeed. Most players will equip 4 of them leaving 1 spot for DS. Pet users will be using them frequently and pure revitalise users will spam them every 30 plus sec to add to their DPS. Normal users will also spam them once every 90 sec or less to add to their DPS in boss fights. Net effect, DPS will still have higher DPS with the backups, pet users has a larger repertoire and higher DPS, revitalise users will have more attacks and higher DPS as well. As I say, it is common sense that REVITALISE users will certainly benefit from REVITALISE cooling down the device faster so they use them more often which is quite duh... . However reducing the cooldown to 90 secs means all players will also be able to use them more frequently compared to now. And as proven in my calculations against other DPS users, they will not be OPed on revitalise builds. So I do not see why such an implementation is so biased.

    I hope this discourse we are carrying out is helping both sides to clarify our thoughts and not taken personally.
  • wimpazoidwimpazoid Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Hence I always say not to put all eggs in one basket. You've always known my philosophy on farming, be it mods, costumes, gear or even questionite. I buy cheap gear and R4 mods off the AH for my toons. Even devices, I'll farm it only when a toon needs one. Nothing to lose and no love lost for fancy stuff. I feel slighted less.
    On the contrary, I have to consider other powers when looking at these devices because of the fact that you claim that I make these suggestions for my own benefit rather than the whole community. Since it implies that a revitalise build is going to gain so much from it, the problem is revitalise is DEPENDENT on a POWER known as energy builder. To achieve the 30 seconds cooldown, the energy builder needs to be used constantly. Do not even tell me it is possible to fire an attack in between the 2 secs of energy builder cooldown effect on revitalise. The most you can add for dps on top of these devices are the unleashed rage every 14 secs. However, players who do not use revitalise will still benefit from these devices every 90 sec probably less on top of their normal attacks. So how can we not consider the dps of the other powers?

    To me at least, it's self explanatory which is considered before the other. I consider the device first before builds. I have never opposed once anybody gaining from anything, got no beef with that. The issue is more of what one has to lose so another can benefit with changes like this. The devices were 15s high DPS boosts the moment they were introduced on live, with a quick fix later to not allow simultaneous use and hasten recharge. Those weren't unreasonable if you considered what the devices did. That damage may even be nerfed in future, who knows? Truthfully, there wouldn't be players that have multiple summons on a single toon before the fix if they didn't hit as hard. Early adopters were shafted, and it's up to PWE Cryptic's good will to fix that as I said. Each of us alone built our builds a certain way. Others build theirs at different costs too. Saying that 5 devices on a revitalise build with a 14s cooldown between attacks to prove that the devices won't make that build overpowered is irrelevant.

    So now we want them to work differently and have to farm for 5 of these things when a person may already have 1 and was happy with it? Knowing me, you know what my answer will be, no thanks.
    I still love this game for its customizing, ability to create your own superhero of nearly any design with nearly any power combi you wish. I was about to retire Paragon once I got my last R9 con mod and start on gearing my next toon. But all the time and effort spent seems to go down the drain when they implement changes to powers. It is not about a free retcon token. It is about the time spent farming and money spent buying rank-up catalysts as well.

    I can't play just one toon. So I say long overdue is your next toon, and you know I haven't gotten to see your new Robin toon yet.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    Hence I always say not to put all eggs in one basket. You've always known my philosophy on farming, be it mods, costumes, gear or even questionite. I buy cheap gear and R4 mods off the AH for my toons. Even devices, I'll farm it only when a toon needs one. Nothing to lose and no love lost for fancy stuff. I feel slighted less.

    I am more of the kind who will play one toon to the max and then start on the next which is a problem because after having farmed Paragon to near maximum capacity, the change that came along or is coming along means having to rebuild and refarm the character.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    To me at least, it's self explanatory which is considered before the other.

    Hmmm, if that is the case then there is no issue with revitalise (power-linked skill) being able to cool it down faster.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    I consider the device first before builds. I have never opposed once anybody gaining from anything, got no beef with that. The issue is more of what one has to lose so another can benefit with changes like this. The devices were 15s high DPS boosts the moment they were introduced on live, with a quick fix later to not allow simultaneous use and hasten recharge. Those weren't unreasonable if you considered what the devices did. That damage may even be nerfed in future, who knows? Truthfully, there wouldn't be players that have multiple summons on a single toon before the fix if they didn't hit as hard. Early adopters were shafted, and it's up to PWE Cryptic's good will to fix that as I said. Each of us alone built our builds a certain way. Others build theirs at different costs too. Saying that 5 devices on a revitalise build with a 14s cooldown between attacks to prove that the devices won't make that build overpowered is irrelevant.

    Sadly it is this good will to fix and fix properly which I have doubts over. Furthermore, if only 1 device can be used at a time since you mentioned that the fix was not unreasonable since they hit so hard then what is the point of having different champions backups. Might as well just have Ironclad or Nighthawk whichever hits harder. It is kind of but not exactly the same as why have different bloodmoon devices. Make them share cooldowns. A player can summon Fireflight, use Hacked Orbital Cannon, Archer's Memory and Nimbus all at the same time besides the charge time. So why not different backup summons if they did not do the same ridiculous amount of damage they do now.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    So now we want them to work differently and have to farm for 5 of these things when a person may already have 1 and was happy with it? Knowing me, you know what my answer will be, no thanks.

    Well having 1 still allows you to get the same damage output of 200k by 15min15sec or 100k by 7min45sec without any cooldown bonus. Whereas you get 200k in 15sec in a burst right now and no more damage for the next 30min I do not see how this can be so useful. Anyone who use the 200k damage output has to be fighting something with very high HP otherwise no point using the devices in their current state hence overtime the single device will still function well. Having all 5 of them simply means dealing 200k damage by 3min15sec. If having 5 is the going to be the same as having 1 device, why would anyone want to farm for the other devices. That to me is self explanatory.
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    I can't play just one toon. So I say long overdue is your next toon, and you know I haven't gotten to see your new Robin toon yet.

    I was 1 R9 mod away from completing Paragon and starting on my Robin toon. Now I am just going to wait and see.
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,073 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    And now we have something called [Teleiosaurus Pheremones], and we can equip them up to *5.

    Teleiosaurus Pheremones Device Bind on Equip
    Toggle
    10 sec
    Targets self
    30 sec recharge
    25% chance: After 9 sec, Creates a level 46 Hatchling
    25% chance: After 11 sec, Creates a level 46 Hatchling
    10% chance: After 12 sec, Creates a level 46 Coruscator



    And wut was [Backup]s? xD
  • wimpazoidwimpazoid Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Hmmm, if that is the case then there is no issue with revitalise (power-linked skill) being able to cool it down faster.
    If you have been reading, there is no issue with revitalise. I've tried to point out the device's characteristics standalone of builds. To me it is irrelevant, that's my argument. It's your whole argument that is daisy chained.

    You keep returning the argument to emphasize on revitalise builds.

    What you fail to see: You want revitalise to work and no shared cooldown > needs to be balanced AROUND revitalise > needs to lower cooldown because of revitalise so other builds won't be shortchanged > needs to rebalance damage so that revitalise builds won't seem overpowered > need to rebalance damage so that other builds won't seem underpowered because of this.

    Rest of your post, it feels like I'm reading the same things on repeat. Which made me realise this is actually an unnecessary discussion. I'll see you ingame when you feel you can play it again.


    I was 1 R9 mod away from completing Paragon and starting on my Robin toon. Now I am just going to wait and see.
    No you're not. I think you're 4 R9 mods away with the new 4 slot gears. Hopefully that doesn't deserve a seperate thread of its own.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    If you have been reading, there is no issue with revitalise. I've tried to point out the device's characteristics standalone of builds. To me it is irrelevant, that's my argument. It's your whole argument that is daisy chained.

    You keep returning the argument to emphasize on revitalise builds.

    What you fail to see: You want revitalise to work and no shared cooldown > needs to be balanced AROUND revitalise > needs to lower cooldown because of revitalise so other builds won't be shortchanged > needs to rebalance damage so that revitalise builds won't seem overpowered > need to rebalance damage so that other builds won't seem underpowered because of this.

    Rest of your post, it feels like I'm reading the same things on repeat. Which made me realise this is actually an unnecessary discussion. I'll see you ingame when you feel you can play it again.

    No you're not. I think you're 4 R9 mods away with the new 4 slot gears. Hopefully that doesn't deserve a seperate thread of its own.

    Arrh new 4 slot gears. Have not gotten hold of any of those. I thought they are like super rare and need one of those 100 zen cosmic key to unlock?

    While there is a link back to revitalise which is the whole purpose of not sharing cooldown and having revitalise work on it, my proposed fix does benefit the general population if we look at this as a standalone without considering revitalise.

    By calculation 5 of these devices will bring you the same 200k damage in 3minute and 15 seconds. Every 90secs thereafter it is another 100k damage. Is this not better than a 30 minute shared cooldown although it can deal that 200k in the 1st 15 seconds? Which is the purpose of not having shared cooldown.

    If we calculate based on just 1 device then the 200k is only achieved in the 15th min and 15th seconds.
  • wimpazoidwimpazoid Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Arrh new 4 slot gears. Have not gotten hold of any of those. I thought they are like super rare and need one of those 100 zen cosmic key to unlock?

    I'm pretty sure there'll come a time when they become a staple. It just costs more for early adopters. I'm happily content that nothing in this game requires me to go beyond R4 mods and AH gear.

    I'm only disappointed that a Become device essentially costs 10000 ZEN now. That's a new low, even topping the lock boxes.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    wimpazoid wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure there'll come a time when they become a staple. It just costs more for early adopters. I'm happily content that nothing in this game requires me to go beyond R4 mods and AH gear.

    I'm only disappointed that a Become device essentially costs 10000 ZEN now. That's a new low, even topping the lock boxes.

    Well apparently other players have a thread complaining about become devices changing the heart of the game because they are OP. Not sure how true but I am just gonna keep watching how things will move.
  • neuraldamageneuraldamage Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    monaahiru wrote: »
    And now we have something called [Teleiosaurus Pheremones], and we can equip them up to *5.

    Teleiosaurus Pheremones Device Bind on Equip
    Toggle
    10 sec
    Targets self
    30 sec recharge
    25% chance: After 9 sec, Creates a level 46 Hatchling
    25% chance: After 11 sec, Creates a level 46 Hatchling
    10% chance: After 12 sec, Creates a level 46 Coruscator



    And wut was [Backup]s? xD

    Incorrect. They are lvl 40 now, not lvl 46.

    Still QQing?

    And anyone who equips 5 on one toon after the backup nerfing deserves everything they're going to get when the next nerf bat swings. :wink:

    People are broken. - Lum the Mad
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,073 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Incorrect. They are lvl 40 now, not lvl 46.

    Still QQing?

    And anyone who equips 5 on one toon after the backup nerfing deserves everything they're going to get when the next nerf bat swings. :wink:

    I've used ovr 10,000G for backups so I have a claim to QQ for amount of I spend. :3

    And wut are they thinking bringing 4slots and some of Legacy as super OP Device after this nerf ?

    OP nerf OP nerf OP nerf...Endless.
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,073 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    This is all I want to say...
    Thank you for nice Present!!!
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    monaahiru wrote: »
    This is all I want to say...
    Thank you for nice Present!!!

    LOL cute video, love the deodorant girl and the potato head boy.
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