Cryptic. I'm dissapointed.

bjoernr

You said Vehicles will be a unique new gameplay part of CO.
But now they are just expensive become devices.
Also is it just wierd that a vehicle is faster than a SS Superhero.

sorceror01

bjoernr wrote: »

You said Vehicles will be a unique new gameplay part of CO.
But now they are just expensive become devices.
Also is it just wierd that a vehicle is faster than a SS Superhero.

Which Become Critter devices can you mod again?
Because you can mod vehicles with their own unique gear and whatnot.
I'm not sure which Become Critter devices can be modded, can you refresh my memory? (it's none. None of them.)
And not all vehicles are going to be faster than a super speedster. But, even in comics, there are some that are.
If anything, OP, I am disappointed that you are so quick to start criticizing an aspect of the game that, as the devs have already pointed out several times, isn't even done yet.

jonsills

bjoernr wrote: »

You said Vehicles will be a unique new gameplay part of CO.
But now they are just expensive become devices.
Also is it just wierd that a vehicle is faster than a SS Superhero.

From the new blog post on Vehicles (linked from TT's post in the Super News Network):

There are also early versions of the Hover Tank and Grav Bike on PTS, so you can start playing around with the new vehicle system - but remember that these are early versions, and your feedback is invaluable in improving their gameplay and their looks.

So maybe a little less QQ, and a little more constructive criticism? Maybe even in the appropriate thread?

trailturtle

It is worth noting that the structure of the system probably won't change -- modifications to what's on PTS will probably be incremental, except for art and effects. Anything that's just numbers is highly responsive to feedback, but the fundamental structure of the vehicle system is probably not going to change unless we see something huge wrong with it.

lokikin

I'm guessing the OP is bothered by the fact that they are going to be Become devices and not, say, a motorcycle that your toon can get on and drive off...

Nice as it would be, that's not going to happen. It would be a graphics nightmare given the massive character customization CO has. How do you deal with the same vehicle being used by a 4 ft character and an 8 ft character? How would it work with beast legs? How do you keep that cape from clipping through the vehicle body? Huge arms and legs. Bulky costume pieces. I won't even get into mounted power usage, especially with weapons...

Become devices remove all those variables. If they didn't go this route, we wouldn't have vehicles at all. I, for one, am excited to check them out...

bjoernr

Im bothered by the fact that the vehicles feels like their just made for money making.
They are just become devices with forced travelpower.

bluhman

lokikin wrote: »

Nice as it would be, that's not going to happen. It would be a graphics nightmare given the massive character customization CO has. How do you deal with the same vehicle being used by a 4 ft character and an 8 ft character? How would it work with beast legs? How do you keep that cape from clipping through the vehicle body? Huge arms and legs. Bulky costume pieces. I won't even get into mounted power usage, especially with weapons...

The big problem is with character scaling to a centralized model. Say, you had a standardized bike model. The first step would be to make the bike scale directly with the character's height, which is easy enough. That's obviously not the only consideration to be made. From there, the game could take one of two ways to adjust the models to work with one another:

1. Adjust the player model to the bike - There is a static model for the bike, which the character's model will attempt to fit to by procedurally extending or bending limbs. You can see an effect similar to this if you use a 2-handed munitions weapon in the tailor - when changing weapon model for it, try switching to the body-sliders tab and changing your arm length. Looking at the fact they already have a fine-tuned hoverbike model available, this seems like the ideal way to go.
2. Adjust the model to the player - There's the opposite as well, in which the user will maintain the same pose and position while the bike scales to their sizes. An example of how this happens can be seen when changing hand size and length when holding any weapon - As you hands get longer, so do your weapons. This introduces a few odd problems: a character with a top-heavy physique, for example, might have a front wheel on their bike that clips through the ground.

This is all stuff that's dependent on openly-visible values within the costume creator - just one part of ways characters here can differ. There's also a wide variety of shapes and sizes that are provided via costume variety, but it's just like costume clipping: there really isn't much that can be done for it except make a million variations that fit to every situation.

serendipitynow

The route theyve taken with vehicles is very bad imo.

They are dangerously close to a pay to win option since they are faster than any travel powers AND do more damage than most heroes that arent lvl 40 with endgame gear.

With them being so over powered like that its turning the game into vehicles online instead of champions online!

They should just have made them travel devices not this abomination!

jorifice1

serendipitynow wrote: »

The route theyve taken with vehicles is very bad imo.

They are dangerously close to a pay to win option since they are faster than any travel powers AND do more damage than most heroes that arent lvl 40 with endgame gear.

With them being so over powered like that its turning the game into vehicles online instead of champions online!

They should just have made them travel devices not this abomination!

Overpowered? Are we using the same devices? I got my jet the first day they were offered and they are if anything ridiculously UNDERPOWERED. I have yet to find a fight, at any level, where the jet was more effective then any character I have used it with. Only the one high damage power, and that has such a high charge up, long cool down and for all intents and purposes disables all your other powers. And they are SOOOO squishy. I only bother to fight in the jets when facing something I am so overpowered to face that having all of my abilities ridiculously nerfed is meaningless. And to be clear, I have NO ENDGAME GEAR WHATSOEVER on any of my toons. I shelve a character once it reaches 40 and start a new one. I don't do Unity or Nemcon. I don't farm the Comic or Adventure Packs. The only thing that they are good for is covering a lot of ground fast. That's it.

sanmerci

jorifice1 wrote: »

Overpowered? Are we using the same devices? I got my jet the first day they were offered and they are if anything ridiculously UNDERPOWERED. I have yet to find a fight, at any level, where the jet was more effective then any character I have used it with. Only the one high damage power, and that has such a high charge up, long cool down and for all intents and purposes disables all your other powers. And they are SOOOO squishy. I only bother to fight in the jets when facing something I am so overpowered to face that having all of my abilities ridiculously nerfed is meaningless. And to be clear, I have NO ENDGAME GEAR WHATSOEVER on any of my toons. I shelve a character once it reaches 40 and start a new one. I don't do Unity or Nemcon. I don't farm the Comic or Adventure Packs. The only thing that they are good for is covering a lot of ground fast. That's it.

This. Very much this. I will add that, while I consider myself a fairly competent character builder, I'm by no means a master and all of my builds are a bit less than optimal purely because I build for concept. And they still kick all kinds of rump over the jets in combat.

serendipitynow

Well considering i have a lvl 40 that placed as high as 4th in the mega d event, and is almost always in top 2 in alerts does LESS than the dps jet, yes they do MORE damage than most characters.

For reference this chr does under 2k dps, has around 300 primary (ego) and 200 each secondary (int and pre) and uses 3 active offences so one is always on.

lotar295

I can agree with the OP on the vehicle hate,they do way more damage than characters,that should be the other way around..Vehicles should not exceed character damage,defense,and everything really,I can also agree with the fact that this is doing to most likely end up being another "Lemuria",basically something used by under 10% of the playerbase,which really won't be good for CO if the vehicles are used that little,it would be just like some of the other new stuff here,shiny and new for one week,then one week later,nobody cares.These vehicles really shouldn't be better than our characters,except for movement,but not DPS,tanking,healing etc.

jorifice1

serendipitynow wrote: »

Well considering i have a lvl 40 that placed as high as 4th in the mega d event, and is almost always in top 2 in alerts does LESS than the dps jet, yes they do MORE damage than most characters.

For reference this chr does under 2k dps, has around 300 primary (ego) and 200 each secondary (int and pre) and uses 3 active offences so one is always on.

Sounds like a bug with the scaling of the Event rather than the Jets themselves. The Uber Attack on my jet can't take down a Master Villein a few levels BELOW my character, when that character can cut that same Master Villein apart long before the charge up time on the Jet. I played one toon from the mid 20's up to 40 with the jet. I played another from 6-26, which means I have played every level of the game except the Tutorial. My toons, both concept, one a Ranged Night Warrior the other Laser Sword, radically out preformed the Jet in every case at every level in every area. Only the chance at that Alpha Strike was worth it, and then, with the cool down, clearing an area would take FOREVER. Combine that with the wonky controls and you get a platform singularly unsuited to standard play. I suppose if you do nothing but Dockside Dustups and the occasional Open Mission it could seem a bit OP. But just actually playing the game? Basically just a particularly expensive travel power.

somebob

I agree. My Become Nighthawk 'DPS' jet (on PTS anyway) is FAR weaker than my DPS character. And it can take less damage before I explode. And has none of my defenses, or dodge value, or shields, or healing, or anything else my DPS character has.

So in short, no, the Become Vehicles are far weaker than my character is at level 40. Drastically.

neuraldamage

serendipitynow wrote: »

They are dangerously close to a pay to win option....

I'm always curious when I see this phrase used. What exactly does one "win"?

jorifice1

Doin' a little investimugating on the ol' interwebs, chattin' up some folks in game and have come to a little hypothesis. The Jets may be either ignoring much, if not all, of the Defences on certain bosses, or the damage is being calculated for purposes of rewards as if it had not been mitigated. This would be a bug. It would also explain why those of us who use these devices in regular play do not notice. If this proves true it would be a bug rather than an OP device. The bug should be fixed, but otherwise do not nerf the jets into complete worthlessness. Unfortunately a work commitment keeps me from investigating more at the moment. Anyone else, feel free to do your own research.

blademaster5121

somebob wrote: »

I agree. My Become Nighthawk 'DPS' jet (on PTS anyway) is FAR weaker than my DPS character. And it can take less damage before I explode. And has none of my defenses, or dodge value, or shields, or healing, or anything else my DPS character has.

So in short, no, the Become Vehicles are far weaker than my character is at level 40. Drastically.

This^ I can't understand how bad people are at making character builds if a jet or equivalent role can out tank/dps/heal them.

solardynamo

My characters sometimes place high up in open events...alerts you can't really tell since the scoring is off. There's really not one jet that can outscore my weakest 40 so I really don't get why people seem locked into this impression vehicles are so powerful.

twg042370

bjoernr wrote: »

Im bothered by the fact that the vehicles feels like their just made for money making.

Doubly shocking because the severs are powered by unicorn farts, the devs are powered by rum, and Cryptic doesn't need any money for anything at all!

crashdragon

twg042370 wrote: »

Doubly shocking because the severs are powered by unicorn farts, the devs are powered by rum, and Cryptic doesn't need any money for anything at all!

Oh, that explains EVERYTHING!!

1. Why so many say the game servers stink.

2. Why there are so many bugs and why help tickets are never answered due to the Dev's being passed out in the afternoon.

3. Don't tell naughty fib's, they get their money from recycling those rum bottles. :cool:

ariesmajor

lokikin wrote: »

How do you deal with the same vehicle being used by a 4 ft character and an 8 ft character? How would it work with beast legs? How do you keep that cape from clipping through the vehicle body? Huge arms and legs. Bulky costume pieces. I won't even get into mounted power usage, especially with weapons...

How do you deal with 4 ft character and 8 ft character....the same way hover disk travel power animations deal with it, the same way super magnifier deals with it, scale in code.

Huge arms, huge legs, bulky costume pieces....since when has clipping ever been that big of a deal, don't like the way your character clips....stop wearing ridiculous outfits that clip. I've never had a problem with the clipping since we arent using valve engine and we don't run the risk of physics killing our toons.

Mounted power usage...why allow power usage outside of whats on the vehicle while riding one anyway?

I keep hearing, coding nightmare bla bla game engine etc etc....but that doesn't translate to me well enough since I can code already. So its like saying "oh we cant put this in because uhh....." Because what? Is it a script problem? Is it a client problem? Is it a physics engine problem? Is it a graphics problem (you'd have to have a really bad graphics team if that was the case) Is it a packet error? WTF are we dealing with here as to why not?

ariesmajor

bluhman wrote: »

The big problem is with character scaling to a centralized model. Say, you had a standardized bike model. The first step would be to make the bike scale directly with the character's height, which is easy enough. That's obviously not the only consideration to be made. From there, the game could take one of two ways to adjust the models to work with one another:

1. Adjust the player model to the bike - There is a static model for the bike, which the character's model will attempt to fit to by procedurally extending or bending limbs. You can see an effect similar to this if you use a 2-handed munitions weapon in the tailor - when changing weapon model for it, try switching to the body-sliders tab and changing your arm length. Looking at the fact they already have a fine-tuned hoverbike model available, this seems like the ideal way to go.
2. Adjust the model to the player - There's the opposite as well, in which the user will maintain the same pose and position while the bike scales to their sizes. An example of how this happens can be seen when changing hand size and length when holding any weapon - As you hands get longer, so do your weapons. This introduces a few odd problems: a character with a top-heavy physique, for example, might have a front wheel on their bike that clips through the ground.

This is all stuff that's dependent on openly-visible values within the costume creator - just one part of ways characters here can differ. There's also a wide variety of shapes and sizes that are provided via costume variety, but it's just like costume clipping: there really isn't much that can be done for it except make a million variations that fit to every situation.

All you have to do is apply the scaling to the bike model as a whole and apply standard scaling to hight only and not hands arms legs etc scaling. The static position while riding is easy enough to attach points to the bike model and configure player skeleton to pose to these points, you don't need the player skeleton to do anything but that, and maybe allow physics to be applied to capes etc. Let the clipping be a player issue like it is with costumes. Allow the bikes base model to sit up high enough off the ground and viola.

Saints row the third allows player models to be sized to ridiculous extremes, but it doesn't change the way you get onto a bike or inside of a car unless you're rolling around with a bobble head and a beehive hairdoo, in which case, thats your problem not the development team.

They don't have to apply the scaling to anything but height, if they peer off into mass and other ratios you end up with garbage.

jasinblaze

in a game where everyone looks different
if we don't have a level of customizing with the vehicles
it doesn't matter how cool they look, it will be boring once everyone has them
just human nature

draogn

Will the content that comes out with these overglorified become devices be developed exclusively for them. If so, then that is my biggest problem with them.

cybersoldier1981

As it looks now, the vehicles aren't what I expected. Granted, I like the advantage of speed my jet gives me, but when it's time to fight I go to the ground with my character. The required reload on my jet is more than enough time to get stomped.

And to the person who said this game was going 'pay to win'.... did you miss that section in the Z-store where you can buy mod catalysts?

Also, winning against what, exactly? Last I checked, you can't get your vehicle out in PvP matches.

If you don't like them, don't get them.

serendipitynow

I agree. My Become Nighthawk 'DPS' jet (on PTS anyway) is FAR weaker than my DPS character. And it can take less damage before I explode. And has none of my defenses, or dodge value, or shields, or healing, or anything else my DPS character has.

So in short, no, the Become Vehicles are far weaker than my character is at level 40. Drastically.

That makes you 1 of the few. I didnt say they were better than all, i said better than most especially pre 40 and endgame gear. A dps specced lvl 40 is better than them, but very few other than that are.

As to 'pay to win' its an expression, basically it means giving something to people willing to pay more to make them more powerful than someone else, rather than paying for more options etc it lets people pay for power, which is always bad for balance.

bioshrike

If Cryptic were smart, they'd provide for a reasonable in-game way to get at least 1 basic vehicle for free. A mild grind or story arc would be ok, (no more than say 10 hrs worth of casual playing).

The next step would be to *not* include vehicle mod drops in regular content, but to provide a small selection of "ground based" missions for vehicle mods, then a larger selection of vehicle based missions for these special types of mods. Yet another option is to do a pass on all of the vehicles and simply have their speed and range be commensurate with regular powers *while outside of their special settings*. What I would do is to provide a "high speed" buff to all participants in special vehicle missions which increases their speed and range.

kungpowrooster

The main thing about the hover bike, I pray it doesn't end up just having a bike with no rider... It really doesn't make sense and it does make the bike then be stupid to even make it with not even showing our own hero riding it. I rarely complain about stuff. But, the vehicle system was something that I was really looking forward too. I agree with Jonsills quote he has posted, from what trailturtle mention about the vehicle system.

That it is in early stages, so I am holding on to believing it be more greater. But again, I hope cryptic will make the hover bikes. Show our own hero riding it, other wise. Again it be a waste and stupid thing to use if it doesn't even show our own hero riding it. Well, that is my 2 cents and a dollar on the vehicle system. Also it be great that the vehicle can be color and design to our own hero design, such as the hero color and emblem please ^_^

beldin

sorceror01 wrote: »

Which Become Critter devices can you mod again?
Because you can mod vehicles with their own unique gear and whatnot.
I'm not sure which Become Critter devices can be modded, can you refresh my memory? (it's none. None of them.)
And not all vehicles are going to be faster than a super speedster. But, even in comics, there are some that are.
If anything, OP, I am disappointed that you are so quick to start criticizing an aspect of the game that, as the devs have already pointed out several times, isn't even done yet.

It doesn't matter that older become devices can't be modded. Fact is : you become the
vehicle, because your character disappears, and you don't have access to the powers
of your character. This is a become device, no matter what else you can do with it.

You are no longer your Hero .. you morph into (become) a machine.

s3rju

i'd like to point something out here... http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2264351&postcount=3

so this is NOTHING like a simple become device right... right? :rolleyes:

it's a simple become device with mods!

jorifice1

You know, something was bothering me a bit about the descriptions of the jets in combat. The Interceptor Jet with the high attack power is far squishier than even the squishiest toon. It has no defences or heals of any kind. If it was really doing that much damage it would be drawing Agro like CRAZY. Every boss from an Open World mission, such as the Destroids, is capable of one shotting one of these Jets with just about every single attack. Unless you have had the strange luck to have run all of these Missions with an incredibly skilled, superbly built, dedicated Tank, then SOMEONE is doing enough damage to the Boss that it is completely ignoring the Jets. Another explanation is that you have some people popping in and out of Jet form for various reasons, such as to get out of the way FAST in order to avoid massive charged attacks or to heal up out of range.

ashensnow

I would have no problem with the vehicle system if those for whom they are inappropriate had the ability to slot some sort of boost device that:

1) Did not change the character model.

2) Increased the max range on our attacks.

3) Increased our top speed.

4) allowed full participation in vehicular content.


Requiring that subscribers play a form of become device or AT, while also drastically reducing game avatar appearance options (greater than 99% reduction so far), in order to access content or have access to the longest ranged attacks, fastest travel speed, etc. is way off in my opinion.

som3one1

ashensnow wrote: »

I would have no problem with the vehicle system if those for whom they are inappropriate had the ability to slot some sort of boost device that:

1) Did not change the character model.

2) Increased the max range on our attacks.

3) Increased our top speed.

4) allowed full participation in vehicular content.


Requiring that subscribers play a form of become device or AT, while also drastically reducing game avatar appearance options (greater than 99% reduction so far), in order to access content or have access to the longest ranged attacks, fastest travel speed, etc. is way off in my opinion.

I would buy this for sure as i think its way better to play my own chars rather than some prebuilt one, hopefully the customization will be good but nonetheless this seems like it would be easy enough to do.

As long as this is created at some point i don't see any trouble with the vehicles.

s3rju

modfying our powers would be a nicer solution, me thinks...

akirasanbeer

Wish most of em' had a better sense of weight; I'm guessing they're having animation issues in regards to banking/turn radius.

wraithshadow13

This is why the vehicles needed to be more fleshed out (much like hideouts need to be) in terms of customization. As it stands they're just become devices with mod slots. But they should be way more than that, especially in a game where customization was supposed to be the huge draw. If we could customize our vehicles (as well as weapons) at the tailor, like the weapons tab but with sizing options as well as look and color, it would solve so many issues.


Give us the vehicles for free. Then to make money off of them you have the mods with modest prices, but supplement the lower prices by selling costume packs or themed sets of vehicle parts as well as maybe a rare loot drop for sets like viper vehicles or such.


As for everyone always jumping on the coding bandwagon for why things can't be in game i always try to ignore that since it's a cryptic game on a cryptic engine being made by cryptic. They know the ins and the outs of the system, so if they wanted anything in game they could put it in there. Anything. It might take some time to work out the bugs, but any time there is enough people wanting something Cryptic has gone out of their way to do it. I might not agree with the decisions being made at cryptic in terms of how to handle things in game, but as a whole i always have faith enough to think that if they wanted, they could put any thing in game as long as there was a demand for it.

secksegai

bjoernr wrote: »

You said Vehicles will be a unique new gameplay part of CO.
But now they are just expensive become devices.
Also is it just wierd that a vehicle is faster than a SS Superhero.

A bit late to the party - but I'd say the bottom line is, we didn't get anything "new" other than new expensive toys.


All the time and effort devoted to said vehicles (assuming there was any) could have gone towards fixing troubled powersets or bugs, or... adding real new content.

Can't be surprised that someone wouldn't be too happy, let alone a number of folks.

neuraldamage

serendipitynow wrote: »

That makes you 1 of the few. I didnt say they were better than all, i said better than most especially pre 40 and endgame gear. A dps specced lvl 40 is better than them, but very few other than that are.

As to 'pay to win' its an expression, basically it means giving something to people willing to pay more to make them more powerful than someone else, rather than paying for more options etc it lets people pay for power, which is always bad for balance.

Guess I'm another because my jets and way less rounded and survivable than my lvl 40 toons. So are most of the lvl 40 toons I know.

Basically all the Becomes are better than lowbies, that's why my noob toons run around with a Become Something in Alerts.

And conceptually they fit because if a giant 60ft tall robot were to attack the city, there WOULD be jets flying around and attacking it. Plus it gives me a reason to deck out a toon in the Pulp Aviator costume set.

Yep, got me to buy both a device and a costume set off the Z-store... HOW can that be bad for the game?

Yes I know what pay to win means, just not how it applies here as the Becomes are NOT more powerful than a correctly-built character. They are just the option of a different playstyle.

cptvanor

neuraldamage wrote: »

Guess I'm another because my jets and way less rounded and survivable than my lvl 40 toons.

Either he has some bad data or else has an issue with the Jets. The former should be easy enough to correct, just take them some place else and test them. Because if the jets are doing more DPS then a even halfway decent build, then it's because of a bug or some other issue.

However since all serendipitynow, does is keep repeating that same line, despite all the people saying otherwise, I think it may be at least a combo of both issues.

I have a DPS jet and even at low levels it doesn't do nearly the same kind of damage that my DPS characters does. I got it for a FF character using archery, and I can kill a spawn in considerably less time using heirloom gear then I could with a jet, at lvl 23.

darqaura

secksegai wrote: »

A bit late to the party - but I'd say the bottom line is, we didn't get anything "new" other than new expensive toys.


All the time and effort devoted to said vehicles (assuming there was any) could have gone towards fixing troubled powersets or bugs, or... adding real new content.

Can't be surprised that someone wouldn't be too happy, let alone a number of folks.

With the way vehicles are coming out I'd have preferred if they spent all that time on new content.

Just saying.

Not impressed.

lokikin

There's something that I haven't heard mentioned yet, although I haven't read all the posts regarding the topic...

I don't think that vehicles are really meant to be used for PvE. When they first brought up vehicles, they mentioned vehicle vs vehicle combat and new PvP zones for said combat. This makes me think that the primary focus of the vehicles is a new form of PvP; a mini game if you will...

Think Car Wars...

Although admittedly it would be awesome if they could balance vehicles with characters so they could PvP against each other effectively. Here I'm thinking more Autoduel Champions rather than straight Car Wars...

dragonbluey

I know this is a serious thread for serious people, but every time I see the thread title I can't help but hear it in Dr. Destroyer's voice.

flyingfinn

It's even better with Porky Pigs voice.
'That's all folks!'.

ariesmajor

wraithshadow13 wrote: »

As for everyone always jumping on the coding bandwagon for why things can't be in game i always try to ignore that since it's a cryptic game on a cryptic engine being made by cryptic. They know the ins and the outs of the system, so if they wanted anything in game they could put it in there. Anything. It might take some time to work out the bugs, but any time there is enough people wanting something Cryptic has gone out of their way to do it. I might not agree with the decisions being made at cryptic in terms of how to handle things in game, but as a whole i always have faith enough to think that if they wanted, they could put any thing in game as long as there was a demand for it.

About time somebody gets it. Also the bikes already have handle bars and foot pedals on them, so, I doubt that they're incapable.

lokikin

wraithshadow13 wrote: »

As for everyone always jumping on the coding bandwagon for why things can't be in game i always try to ignore that since it's a cryptic game on a cryptic engine being made by cryptic. They know the ins and the outs of the system, so if they wanted anything in game they could put it in there. Anything. It might take some time to work out the bugs, but any time there is enough people wanting something Cryptic has gone out of their way to do it. I might not agree with the decisions being made at cryptic in terms of how to handle things in game, but as a whole i always have faith enough to think that if they wanted, they could put any thing in game as long as there was a demand for it.

Faulty logic...

Just because it's their game engine doesn't mean they can do "anything they wanted". It means they can do anything they want within the limitations of the engine. And no one knows those limitations better than Cryptic...

The folks who say something should be easy to code, or would be impossible to code, don't know that engine and therefore have no real clue as to what they're talking about, regardless of whether they know coding or not. They don't know the coding for the Cryptic game engine...

But Cryptic does, and if they come out and say they can't do something, like say black and white power color tinting, I am prone to believe them and move on...

wraithshadow13

personally i'm not, especially in terms of believing them. there's been plenty of times we've been told "no it's not going to be happening" "no, it's not possible" "yes, that's coming soon" and numerous other things that turned out to be the exact opposite. Just look at what's going on with some of the other games like the tholians in STO or the Giant Spiders in NW. How long ago that wasn't possible or how they keep telling us that things that are already in champions aren't possible even though they're already in game. 4 armed characters for example. It's a simple engine compared to some of the other games out there at the moment but it's still a coded system that can have things added to it any time, they just don't want to put in the effort unless it's making them money.

lokikin

wraithshadow13 wrote: »

personally i'm not, especially in terms of believing them. there's been plenty of times we've been told "no it's not going to be happening" "no, it's not possible" "yes, that's coming soon" and numerous other things that turned out to be the exact opposite. Just look at what's going on with some of the other games like the tholians in STO or the Giant Spiders in NW. How long ago that wasn't possible or how they keep telling us that things that are already in champions aren't possible even though they're already in game. 4 armed characters for example. It's a simple engine compared to some of the other games out there at the moment but it's still a coded system that can have things added to it any time, they just don't want to put in the effort unless it's making them money.

And there we go. You did it. "It's a simple engine compared to some of the other games out there..." How do you know? Personally, I suspect the engine is overly complex. Why else would adding this power here suddenly break Nemcon? Or adding that new Alert suddenly break some costume pieces? I think the engine has some weird and unessessary associations. But I actually have no idea. Neither does anyone else...

I don't follow NW, but I don't remember them ever saying Tholians were impossible in STO, only that they weren't working on them. That's a decision, not a tech limitation. Hard coded four armed mobs are easy because it's a consistent non-varying model, much like the black in dark speed and dark aura. Once you add player customizable options it's a whole new ball game...

But yes, they have created new tech in the past that allows them to now do what was previously impossible. But that hardly means they can create anything they want with the engine...

And yeah, of course it always comes done to money; that's a given...

Edit: I realized that I'm not making it clear that financially impossible is just as valid and technologically impossible. Yes, it's ultimately code, which is just numbers that can be manipulated. But if allowing the ability to make four armed characters would require a strip down and rebuilt of core engine components and a massive reworking of every character and power graphic in the game, that may as well just have the "impossible" label slapped on, cause it ain't happenin'...

serendipitynow

Heres a quote from the 'first look at vehicles' thread that backs up my point of the vehicles being more powerful than most heroes for all you people keep saying but im a 40 dps and out damage them (which i said all along was the case - its just most of the other characters they out perform AND at greater range as well as out performing ALL travel powers)

So I went cruising with a Lvl 30 of mine earlier tonight (Monday, Oct 8th) and took the Heavy Fighter Hoover Tank out for a test drive. Just to see how tough it was, I started doing the Destroids Rise Again open mission. As usual, the first stage was easy. Then I went after the Phalanx Commanders, and was amazed to find I was able to wipe out entire squads with the Heavy Cannon. Even more amazing, I was able to stand up to the barrages of entire squads while I was shooting back - all without every dying. Not once. Then I went on to the Retaliation Devices. Again, I deliberately took heavy fire before responding. When I got close to being killed, I just zoomed straight up into the air faster than they could chase, took a few seconds to heal, and then landed to finish them off.

Then came the Mega Destroid. After closing, trading shots, and falling back, I'd figured out the trick: I just sat at my max range of 250', where I was out of HIS range, fired incendiaries, reloaded, fired incendiaries... lather, rinse, repeat. It took almost the entire 30 minutes, but I did manage to defeat the Mega D. Solo. At level 30. Had I done this right from the get-go, I could have done the entire open mission without ever taking a single hit from the enemy.

I love the idea of vehicles and being able to cross the full map in a matter of seconds. But making them battle-stations? Notsomuch. If I can solo a level 28 Open Mission and defeat the Mega Destroid completely on my own without taking damage, that is SERIOUSLY broken.

Personally, I think that vehicles should be for transport ONLY. Otherwise, you'll start an arms-race where players without vehicles simply cannot compete with characters that DO have them. And if they remain this powerful, everyone who has a vehicle will never NOT use it when on an outdoor map.

jorifice1

serendipitynow wrote: »

Heres a quote from the 'first look at vehicles' thread that backs up my point of the vehicles being more powerful than most heroes for all you people keep saying but im a 40 dps and out damage them (which i said all along was the case - its just most of the other characters they out perform AND at greater range as well as out performing ALL travel powers)

You know, your RIGHT. As long as you, the player have absolutely no interest in doing anything but living in Smash Alerts and a tiny handful of the Open Missions then the Jets are actually too powerful. Of course, if you want to actually PLAY THE D#@^M GAME then not so much. Fire a shot. Leave for two minutes. Fire a shot. Leave for two minutes. Not exactly my idea of a good time. But hey, for the two people out there who do enjoy that kind of thing, and want to shell out the cash for the privilege of the most mind numbingly boring game experience EVER, then be my guest.

cptvanor

serendipitynow wrote: »

Heres a quote from the 'first look at vehicles' thread

What happens on the PTS is hardly proof of the Jets being as OP as you claim they are.

for all you people keep saying but im a 40 dps and out damage them

My lvl 23 archer in heirloom gear out damages my jet.

benevon

Just my 2 cents, but since the mechanics for having your character appear on the hover bike arent possible (and I understand why that is), then maybe a hover bike is a bad way to go. A model with an insivible driver just seems silly to me. I just think vehicle models where the character would conceivably be inside a cockpit would look much better thematically.