This. Signed. Best way I think. And let me summon my Justice League or Avengers Assemble even though I only have 1 of these items and not binded.
The backups should be better than fireflight (not ridiculously but definitely better since they are purple hence 1/10 of current damage to me is far more than reasonable). Fireflight do not share CD with other BM devices. So neither should they.
I have no idea, they refuse to address it, but thats not Shadow Strike, thats Smoke Bomb, which has a ridiculous CD.
You're arguing whether or not being able to have Permanent Actives is OP or not? Forget Intelligence as a whole (which would bring my CD of MD down to ~30seconds) look at this a percentage based CD reduction, straight up percentage cuts to Masterful Dodge, Ascension, you name it, thats OP, making it a flat cooldown reduction would've been the smart thing.
Actually I already amended the previous post, thought it sounded a little rude. Apologies, having been at this since yesterday afternoon (it is morning now) can be more than a little frustrating.
I am not sure if they are "addressing" the smoke bomb issue or was it supposed to work that way. When you mentioned smoke bomb being the issue, smoke bomb is not the attack but the buff. So I think the issue still lies with shadowstrike. Smoke bomb has a ridiculous CD meaning too long or too short? Revitalise can perma smoke bomb buff until consumed far easily compared to any actives and can be used in about 20 seconds.
Please understand that there are many many compromises in order to achieve a near perma active. You are on energy builder all the time.
No, no, no, no, no, I want my justice league or avengers summon!!!! :P
Anyway my rationale, they are different heroes, why can't I summon different heroes at the same time to help? Just make sure their damage makes sense.
I really think my time manipulator theme is good. See, by speeding up time around him, he can use actives much more frequently. He anticipates all coming attacks hence allowing him to dodge them. Wow. I like the theme. NOW reduce their damage and return the separate cooldowns and allow revitalise to be used on them.
making it a flat cooldown reduction would've been the smart thing.
For this to not be as broken as a percentage increase, just in a different way, the amount would have to be so pathetic as to make the Spec useless in the majority of builds. Seeing as we have enough trash specs, let's be smart and not go making more, please.
Reason being, is that it would reduce the cooldown on powers that have an already short cooldown by a far more drastic amount than now. Pantegruel I think, or maybe or someone else, pointed this out way back during On Alert's beta, and it's still true.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
This device nerf will affect basically every player without an empty device bar. Healing devices, Blood Moon items, special summons other than the Backups, and just too many items to list.
It would be an absurd, pointless, useless nerf. I really cannot understand how anyone would want it so boring and banal to be the same exact cooldown on every character. EVERYONE has frickin cooldown, nearly, not just INT users. It takes effort to avoid having it basically.
Is this really the design philosophy? Put a rare item in, overpowered, then nerf basically everyone in order to tone the one rare item down?
I am not sure if they are "addressing" the smoke bomb issue or was it supposed to work that way. When you mentioned smoke bomb being the issue, smoke bomb is not the attack but the buff.
So I think the issue still lies with shadowstrike.
Smoke Bomb is doubling the damage, We could argue FC/UR are blatantly OP because Imbue practically doubles its damage by guarenteeing a crit, but the fault is moreover Imbue,.
Smoke bomb has a ridiculous CD meaning too long or too short?
Too long, 2 minutes base, if it were WAD, it'd be the most pointless power.
Revitalise can perma smoke bomb buff until consumed far easily compared to any actives and can be used in about 20 seconds.
No, as I said, 2 minutes base, Actives are 90 seconds. It could be very short, but Actives are even shorter.
Please understand that there are many many compromises in order to achieve a near perma active. You are on energy builder all the time.
I'll give an example where its blatantly OP, a certain healer takes Radiance, they can now heal anything they want with ridiculously fast healing (short CD on Palliate) and be nigh indestructible (perma MD/Ascension) oh and get bonus healing from having Ascension up at all times.
For this to not be as broken as a percentage increase, just in a different way, the amount would have to be so pathetic as to make the Spec useless in the majority of builds. Seeing as we have enough trash specs, let's be smart and not go making more, please.
Reason being, is that it would reduce the cooldown on powers that have an already short cooldown by a far more drastic amount than now. Pantegruel I think, or maybe or someone else, pointed this out way back during On Alert's beta, and it's still true.
This is the promblem though, either way its OP or its useless, unless they nerfed the percentage to be silly low and upped the internal CD (which would make it unappealing). Or they made it a flat .5 second reduction with 2-3 second internal CD (Or even lower flat reduction). There will always be an issue.
I'll give an example where its blatantly OP, a certain healer takes Radiance, they can now heal anything they want with ridiculously fast healing (short CD on Palliate) and be nigh indestructible (perma MD/Ascension) oh and get bonus healing from having Ascension up at all times.
This doesn't address what was said.
Point being, if we balance everything around the most broken ways of using it, we're gonna nerf everything into a pool of slag. I don't think you were around for when they actually tried that. It was called the launch day patch, as well as the circular nerfing that followed, and it's what nearly killed the game in its first year.
Elite players told people to go "play hello kitty online" if they didn't like it, while they broke the game in new and interesting ways every patch and then proceeded to cry about it until kneejerk nerfs came down. It just went round and round and round until the devs stopped and realized they needed to quit listening to them, because people WERE quitting to play other games, and one way or the other these people were going to break SOMETHING and whine about it.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
No, no, no, no, no, I want my justice league or avengers summon!!!! :P
Anyway my rationale, they are different heroes, why can't I summon different heroes at the same time to help? Just make sure their damage makes sense.
Well there is a lot about this that defines logic. I mean seriously, you have enough hero cred to call up Witchcraft on the phone to come help you out, and she only stays for 15 seconds?
"(insert magical blast here) Ok, kiddo, im done here. Good luck on your own...and STOP calling me!"
This is the promblem though, either way its OP or its useless, unless they nerfed the percentage to be silly low and upped the internal CD (which would make it unappealing). Or they made it a flat .5 second reduction with 2-3 second internal CD (Or even lower flat reduction). There will always be an issue.
If the power is really overpowered and needs a change, there are two options I can think of. Either make it have a cap to the reduction of say 8 seconds per proc, or make it work on one power at a time.
(I didn't really think to much if 8 second is a good cap, it was an example)
This is the promblem though, either way its OP or its useless, unless they nerfed the percentage to be silly low and upped the internal CD (which would make it unappealing). Or they made it a flat .5 second reduction with 2-3 second internal CD (Or even lower flat reduction). There will always be an issue.
Alternately, they could just leave it the hell alone and accept that there's going to be people breaking something one way or the other. The fact of the matter is, a power that's energy builder bound, is going to be "alright" in most builds if it's brokenly overpowered in a select few. Like Imbue, we're getting into a case of destroying something different and unique because a group of people like to break stuff and whine about it.
CO can't weather this. It will be something different every week. Like I said, it WAS something different every week, and it almost killed the game. Development nearly screeched to a complete halt over a period of more than a year, because by the time the devs FINALLY realized this crap needed to stop, too much damage had been done.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
If the power is really overpowered and needs a change, there are two options I can think of. Either make it have a cap to the reduction of say 8 seconds per proc, or make it work on one power at a time.
(I didn't really think to much if 8 second is a good cap, it was an example)
Putting a cap on it might be a good way to fixing it, if its power specific, like "Active Defense/Offenses only recieve X%"
Smoke Bomb is doubling the damage, We could argue FC/UR are blatantly OP because Imbue practically doubles its damage by guarenteeing a crit, but the fault is moreover Imbue,.
Too long, 2 minutes base, if it were WAD, it'd be the most pointless power.
No, as I said, 2 minutes base, Actives are 90 seconds. It could be very short, but Actives are even shorter.
I'll give an example where its blatantly OP, a certain healer takes Radiance, they can now heal anything they want with ridiculously fast healing (short CD on Palliate) and be nigh indestructible (perma MD/Ascension) oh and get bonus healing from having Ascension up at all times.
Imbue doubles damage for attacks bringing them to maximum of around 20k. Smoke bomb doubles the damage of an already 20k attack to 40k.
Arrhh yes thanks for the reminder, I remember now why it was possible for perma smoke bomb not because it has short cooldown but also rather a long duration.
A 2 minute base equates to about 40 seconds on a properly geared CD toon. With revitalise working all the time, in 20 secs, this will be reduced by 60 percent while during the same 20 secs it will have cooled itself down hence it is very possible to use smoke bomb once every 20 seconds plus. Hence it is also possible to maintain perma smoke bomb.
I do hope you realise your example of palliate's problem as highlighted in other bug post was the fact that it was healing MUCH more than stated or as it was supposed to be. I read this in passing so I cannot be sure as I have not tested this myself. Revitalise Healer indestructible? You may wish to speak to Jewel Blueberry on this.
Well there is a lot about this that defines logic. I mean seriously, you have enough hero cred to call up Witchcraft on the phone to come help you out, and she only stays for 15 seconds?
"(insert magical blast here) Ok, kiddo, im done here. Good luck on your own...and STOP calling me!"
Well there is a lot about this that defines logic. I mean seriously, you have enough hero cred to call up Witchcraft on the phone to come help you out, and she only stays for 15 seconds?
"(insert magical blast here) Ok, kiddo, im done here. Good luck on your own...and STOP calling me!"
I assume you word here is defies and not defines right?
Nah it is pulling them from other timelines to help but it takes energy and stress to maintain the rift between the timelines which allows the heroes from other timelines to enter our existing timeline to fight.
After 33 seconds, the hero has cooldown and summons again. Sense.
Alternately, they could just leave it the hell alone and accept that there's going to be people breaking something one way or the other. The fact of the matter is, a power that's energy builder bound, is going to be "alright" in most builds if it's brokenly overpowered in a select few. Like Imbue, we're getting into a case of destroying something different and unique because a group of people like to break stuff and whine about it.
CO can't weather this. It will be something different every week. Like I said, it WAS something different every week, and it almost killed the game. Development nearly screeched to a complete halt over a period of more than a year, because by the time the devs FINALLY realized this crap needed to stop, too much damage had been done.
I would tend to agree that in some sense, constant nerf hammering is a poor contributor to the immediate bottom line - i.e. it is really easy to create an unstable atmosphere where no one knows what's next, feels frozen and helpless in what to choose out of that fear, as it were, and loses motivation for playing. Not even counting the peeps with direct fallout from the nerfs, who may just quit for that alone.
This is why it's better to add, create variety, and tweak, as apposed to HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER all the time, in general, as a design philosophy.
Not sure that this bears directly on Imbue (as the issues have been so multifarious and they're just not going to try and tackle it directly anymore), but them listening to peeps lauding new nerfs after new nerfs after new nerfs is probably exactly what you point out here: not really keeping an overall appreciation for the whole player base.
It does need to be tempered, listening to the select few. You can't go all or nothing either way - they're important for feedback and need to see change n all, but it can get kinda extreme. Some people just won't be happy unless the game is basically THEIRS.
Anyway, you see how this digress? We are talking about how to nerf the devices but now people are talking about nerfing revitalise which was ALREADY nerfed.
No one complained until the devices came into play. So people, it will be good to focus. Let's not talk about nerfing any other powers anymore and focus on what should be a good way to control the backups while keeping them reasonably useful.
I propose cutting each activation to 1/10 its damage output. Separate the cool downs and allow revitalise to work. the cool down on each of these devices should also be around say 3 minutes base. Why three minutes? The devices will still need 30 seconds to cool down at a 3 minute timer so they cannot be permanently up.
3 minutes also means other players can use them 10 times more often now.
Putting a cap on it might be a good way to fixing it, if its power specific, like "Active Defense/Offenses only recieve X%"
That is not even needed for this option I think, if for instance you set the reduction cap at 3 seconds, having 6% reduction will work like it does now for anything that has a recharge of 50 seconds or lower.
I would tend to agree that in some sense, constant nerf hammering is a poor contributor to the immediate bottom line - i.e. it is really easy to create an unstable atmosphere where no one knows what's next, feels frozen and helpless in what to choose out of that fear, as it were, and loses motivation for playing. Not even counting the peeps with direct fallout from the nerfs, who may just quit for that alone.
This is why it's better to add, create variety, and tweak, as apposed to HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER all the time, in general, as a design philosophy.
Not sure that this bears directly on Imbue (as the issues have been so multifarious and they're just not going to try and tackle it directly anymore), but them listening to peeps lauding new nerfs after new nerfs after new nerfs is probably exactly what you point out here: not really keeping an overall appreciation for the whole player base.
It does need to be tempered, listening to the select few. You can't go all or nothing either way - they're important for feedback and need to see change n all, but it can get kinda extreme. Some people just won't be happy unless the game is basically THEIRS.
This I agree VERY, VERY, much. I did not really wanna say this but I am getting quite tired having to retcon and rebuild my toons after each nerf. So I am actually watching how this goes down. I have signed up for beta testing elsewhere (not going to mention) already but it will be a pity to end a nearly 2 years run with CO and some good friends which I have made in game.
This I agree VERY, VERY, much. I did not really wanna say this but I am getting quite tired having to retcon and rebuild my toons after each nerf. So I am actually watching how this goes down. I have signed up for beta testing elsewhere (not going to mention) already but it will be a pity to end a nearly 2 years run with CO and some good friends which I have made in game.
Ok, I'll agree with this too, I'm getting rather aggrivated with how many things in CO are utterly broken, however, (which agitates a lot of people, I think). I think things need to be nerfed while others need to be buffed, nerfing isn't bad when done in moderation (recreating Imbue wasn't my idea, but now its scary good in a new way, I don't like that) Simply lowering the numbers on some things (AoPM just needs lower overal numbers...+50 instead of +70) or fixing the actual bugs on others (I'm looking at imbue) usually fixes the issue, but too many times do we get total reworks (Imbue), I'm more inclined to blame development for that.
That is not even needed for this option I think, if for instance you set the reduction cap at 3 seconds, having 6% reduction will work like it does now for anything that has a recharge of 50 seconds or lower.
Base recharge? Hey that sounds fine, just then they need to address the issue of ridiculously long CD s on devices (3 hours for a silly manimal become)
I would tend to agree that in some sense, constant nerf hammering is a poor contributor to the immediate bottom line - i.e. it is really easy to create an unstable atmosphere where no one knows what's next, feels frozen and helpless in what to choose out of that fear, as it were, and loses motivation for playing. Not even counting the peeps with direct fallout from the nerfs, who may just quit for that alone.
This is why it's better to add, create variety, and tweak, as apposed to HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER all the time, in general, as a design philosophy.
Not sure that this bears directly on Imbue (as the issues have been so multifarious and they're just not going to try and tackle it directly anymore), but them listening to peeps lauding new nerfs after new nerfs after new nerfs is probably exactly what you point out here: not really keeping an overall appreciation for the whole player base.
It does need to be tempered, listening to the select few. You can't go all or nothing either way - they're important for feedback and need to see change n all, but it can get kinda extreme. Some people just won't be happy unless the game is basically THEIRS.
The silly thing about all of these nerfs is that it's not like there is any high-level PvE content being particularly exploited or phat lewt being acquired by the use of Imbue\Revitalize\Healing Patches\whatever else they decide to change that will cause me to want to Retcon the rest of my characters until I get tired of doing so. Oh no, people are able to repeat an alert 20% faster and reach their daily questionite quota with marginally less effort! We'd better put a stop to that!
(Before someone protests, I am not saying the Backup devices shouldn't be toned down a bit.)
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I tested my backups and found now they have shared cool down time.
I know Devs needed some kind of fix to this OP device, bust not few of us have already equipped them on one toon. And those are bound, if someone have already equipped 5 backups, 4 will be just useless scrap...
Please fix this not "bound" but "Tradeable" or "Bind on Account" like vehicle devices at least.
Plz care about huge resource and time we spent to get those super rare Devices. T.T
I tested my backups and found now they have shared cool down time.
I know Devs needed some kind of fix to this OP device, bust not few of us have already equipped them on one toon. And those are bound, if someone have already equipped 5 backups, 4 will be just useless scrap...
Please fix this not "bound" but "Bind on Account" at least.
Plz care about huge resource and time we spent to get those super rare Devices. T.T
Either that, or just nerf their damage to something reasonable and remove the shared cooldown. As proposed and I repeat, lower their damage to 1/10 of what they do. 5 backups doing 50k damage over 15 seconds is really not that much. Allow revitalise to work with them again. That equates to 50k damage over 30 plus seconds which adds a dps of 1.6k.
Either that, or just nerf their damage to something reasonable and remove the shared cooldown. As proposed and I repeat, lower their damage to 1/10 of what they do. 5 backups doing 50k damage over 15 seconds is really not that much. Allow revitalise to work with them again. That equates to 50k damage over 30 plus seconds which adds a dps of 1.6k.
That sound nice too.
Anyway I didn't expect this kind of nurf... Terrible. >.<
dunno if it's already been posted but are they still supposed to drop OLD PRE-ALERT gears?!
The bloodmoon pre-alert drop has already been reported. There is no response yet whether they are supposed to drop old gear. There are some old gear which may still be useful like the secondary perception gear.
I can confirm that skill objects now correctly give skill levels and raised a chr from 1-100.
However the crafting vendors are bugged, the first cap raise needs lvl 25 and costs 10N, but i was unable to get with my lvl 40 who has 2G 89N, and 100 skill, i got the message not enough resources.
So while this build will let players get to 100 crafting skill, this vendor bug stops everyone from getting higher than 100 still.
Nerfing AoPM? You stop people from BREAKING THE GAME.
Pick one.
Oh not again for the love of god would people stop harping on about AoPM it only becomes broken when people really min/max with it just as anything else becomes broken when people min/max.
Lets just ban any one why min/maxes from the game there problem solved.
Oh not again for the love of god would people stop harping on about AoPM it only becomes broken when people really min/max with it just as anything else becomes broken when people min/max.
Lets just ban any one why min/maxes from the game there problem solved.
Its kinda hard to not break the game with AoPM, it just gives you everything, you don't even have to min/max it, every combination works with it. But when combos that were already good are applied, it becomes OP, if they actually sat down and looked the numbers over, and how getting 560 stats from this passive is rather ridiculous, maybe we wouldn't have these issues.
Its kinda hard to not break the game with AoPM, it just gives you everything, you don't even have to min/max it, every combination works with it. But when combos that were already good are applied, it becomes OP, if they actually sat down and looked the numbers over, and how getting 560 stats from this passive is rather ridiculous, maybe we wouldn't have these issues.
Can you give an example of how this is breaking the PvE game, i.e. are people tanking Gravitar with it or 1-shotting Dr. Destroyer?
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Can you give an example of how this is breaking the PvE game, i.e. are people tanking Gravitar with it or 1-shotting Dr. Destroyer?
It makes the game silly easy, allowing you to pull DPS numbers while tanking while healing. Thats breaking the game.
Futhermore its the most used passive for all this, it practically spoils players (like gear does).
It makes the game silly easy, allowing you to pull DPS numbers while tanking while healing. Thats breaking the game.
Futhermore its the most used passive for all this, it practically spoils players (like gear does).
Breaking the pve game is not at all the same as being unbalanced or easy for the player (the game is easy with any optimized build).
Breaking the pve game is not at all the same as being unbalanced or easy for the player (the game is easy with any optimized build).
+1
I don't really see it used in PvE that much, not more than any other passive anyway. And there are a lot of builds that allow you to have good DPS while tanking and healing.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
It makes the game silly easy, allowing you to pull DPS numbers while tanking while healing. Thats breaking the game.
Futhermore its the most used passive for all this, it practically spoils players (like gear does).
What passives don't make the game "silly easy"?
It's the only passive that actually provides a useful benefit for certain playstyle choices (mainly bubble-using healers). And no, AoAC's level of benefit is not "useful".
Yes, bubble/conviction/imbue spam has been the go-to complaint in PvP for a bit, but that's not "making the game silly easy". That's "dozens of people in Ren Center use it and think they're awesome because they can spike in duels".
The Imbue nerf, just like the Enrage nerf, is probably going to make AoPM a bit less popular for "general" PvE use, and it'll stay about as popular in PvP use.
TL;DR version: You can nerf AoPM (again) when you give a valid, useful, usable passive for bubble users that boosts shield strength and energy efficiency.
It's the only passive that actually provides a useful benefit for certain playstyle choices (mainly bubble-using healers). And no, AoAC's level of benefit is not "useful".
Yes, bubble/conviction/imbue spam has been the go-to complaint in PvP for a bit, but that's not "making the game silly easy". That's "dozens of people in Ren Center use it and think they're awesome because they can spike in duels".
The Imbue nerf, just like the Enrage nerf, is probably going to make AoPM a bit less popular for "general" PvE use, and it'll stay about as popular in PvP use.
TL;DR version: You can nerf AoPM (again) when you give a valid, useful, usable passive for bubble users that boosts shield strength and energy efficiency.
I thought Seraphim (healing strength) also boosted shield strength.
I thought Seraphim (healing strength) also boosted shield strength.
Unless it's changed in the past month, the healing strength boost from Seraphim doesn't affect shield strength. This is contrary to how most heal strength buffs work, but no one ever really pressed to get it fixed because AoPM works better for actually using shields as a support tool in a group setting. The End/Rec from it, combined with support role and cost discount gear combines pretty well to actually let you afford using them. Even if Seraphim's heal boost component contributed to shields, you'd still be somewhat energy-starved using them.
When Compassion was being worked on, we pointed out that it'd be useless to shield users if it didn't buff shield strength, so its heal strength contributes to them, but that change was never ported to Seraphim (unless it has been in the past month).
I'm all for correcting major imbalances, but I see the changes to Imbue and Device Cooldowns in the current PTS build as NARROWING the viable TYPES of builds, which is not a positive direction. Nerfing AOPM (again) would move further in that direction.
Basically, building for crits is the only option now. For offensive gear, unless you are a dedicated healer (and perhaps even then), you'll want to go +Crits. For defensive gear, it is +Dodge/Avoidance. For Utility gear, there are a couple of choices but +Cooldown Reduction has taken a huge nerf.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I'm all for correcting major imbalances, but I see the nerfs to Imbue and Device Cooldowns in the current PTS build as significantly NARROWING the viable TYPES of builds, which is not a positive direction.
I agree on imbue, they just gave up on it, which is understandable, but unfortunate.
The changes to devices could very well have a good reason. This way cryptic gets a lot more freedom in adding devices, without having to worry about some synergy blowing up game balance (of course all crits, damage, etc, bonuses would need to be removed too).
I'm all for correcting major imbalances, but I see the changes to Imbue and Device Cooldowns in the current PTS build as NARROWING the viable TYPES of builds, which is not a positive direction. Nerfing AOPM (again) would move further in that direction.
I don't see this as narrowing, you had to build for crits regardless, you still get 30% or so crit chance with crit strike gear and specs, no dex at all. At least this makes CON a less obvious pick (Nimble Mind still scales off con instead of rec, so nope, still a super obvious pick). As for AoPM, I think anyone who wants AoPM nerfed just wants its effectiveness reduced, I mean look at the numbers, rather strong, it hits the soft cap on just about everything. I've heard Gentleman_Crush's thoughts on what it should perhaps do, and they are far more severe.
Basically, building for crits is the only option now. For offensive gear, unless you are a dedicated healer (and perhaps even then), you'll want to go +Crits. For defensive gear, it is +Dodge/Avoidance. For Utility gear, there are a couple of choices but +Cooldown Reduction has taken a huge nerf.
This has always been that way, again, Crit Strike and Dodge/Avoid have been the only viable options, we've bitched, moaned, and complained about it since On Alert, nothing is new here.
Prior to the Imbue change, you could count on using it for a critical every 20 seconds or so, so +critical gear was unnecessary. I typically used a +Superstat core for that type of build.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Comments
I'd prefer a shared cooldown between all devices.
Actually I already amended the previous post, thought it sounded a little rude. Apologies, having been at this since yesterday afternoon (it is morning now) can be more than a little frustrating.
I am not sure if they are "addressing" the smoke bomb issue or was it supposed to work that way. When you mentioned smoke bomb being the issue, smoke bomb is not the attack but the buff. So I think the issue still lies with shadowstrike. Smoke bomb has a ridiculous CD meaning too long or too short? Revitalise can perma smoke bomb buff until consumed far easily compared to any actives and can be used in about 20 seconds.
Please understand that there are many many compromises in order to achieve a near perma active. You are on energy builder all the time.
No, no, no, no, no, I want my justice league or avengers summon!!!! :P
Anyway my rationale, they are different heroes, why can't I summon different heroes at the same time to help? Just make sure their damage makes sense.
I really think my time manipulator theme is good. See, by speeding up time around him, he can use actives much more frequently. He anticipates all coming attacks hence allowing him to dodge them. Wow. I like the theme. NOW reduce their damage and return the separate cooldowns and allow revitalise to be used on them.
Uhm, I am confused.
Over?
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For this to not be as broken as a percentage increase, just in a different way, the amount would have to be so pathetic as to make the Spec useless in the majority of builds. Seeing as we have enough trash specs, let's be smart and not go making more, please.
Reason being, is that it would reduce the cooldown on powers that have an already short cooldown by a far more drastic amount than now. Pantegruel I think, or maybe or someone else, pointed this out way back during On Alert's beta, and it's still true.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
It would be an absurd, pointless, useless nerf. I really cannot understand how anyone would want it so boring and banal to be the same exact cooldown on every character. EVERYONE has frickin cooldown, nearly, not just INT users. It takes effort to avoid having it basically.
Is this really the design philosophy? Put a rare item in, overpowered, then nerf basically everyone in order to tone the one rare item down?
I'll give an example where its blatantly OP, a certain healer takes Radiance, they can now heal anything they want with ridiculously fast healing (short CD on Palliate) and be nigh indestructible (perma MD/Ascension) oh and get bonus healing from having Ascension up at all times.
This is the promblem though, either way its OP or its useless, unless they nerfed the percentage to be silly low and upped the internal CD (which would make it unappealing). Or they made it a flat .5 second reduction with 2-3 second internal CD (Or even lower flat reduction). There will always be an issue.
This doesn't address what was said.
Point being, if we balance everything around the most broken ways of using it, we're gonna nerf everything into a pool of slag. I don't think you were around for when they actually tried that. It was called the launch day patch, as well as the circular nerfing that followed, and it's what nearly killed the game in its first year.
Elite players told people to go "play hello kitty online" if they didn't like it, while they broke the game in new and interesting ways every patch and then proceeded to cry about it until kneejerk nerfs came down. It just went round and round and round until the devs stopped and realized they needed to quit listening to them, because people WERE quitting to play other games, and one way or the other these people were going to break SOMETHING and whine about it.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Well there is a lot about this that defines logic. I mean seriously, you have enough hero cred to call up Witchcraft on the phone to come help you out, and she only stays for 15 seconds?
"(insert magical blast here) Ok, kiddo, im done here. Good luck on your own...and STOP calling me!"
If the power is really overpowered and needs a change, there are two options I can think of. Either make it have a cap to the reduction of say 8 seconds per proc, or make it work on one power at a time.
(I didn't really think to much if 8 second is a good cap, it was an example)
Alternately, they could just leave it the hell alone and accept that there's going to be people breaking something one way or the other. The fact of the matter is, a power that's energy builder bound, is going to be "alright" in most builds if it's brokenly overpowered in a select few. Like Imbue, we're getting into a case of destroying something different and unique because a group of people like to break stuff and whine about it.
CO can't weather this. It will be something different every week. Like I said, it WAS something different every week, and it almost killed the game. Development nearly screeched to a complete halt over a period of more than a year, because by the time the devs FINALLY realized this crap needed to stop, too much damage had been done.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Putting a cap on it might be a good way to fixing it, if its power specific, like "Active Defense/Offenses only recieve X%"
Imbue doubles damage for attacks bringing them to maximum of around 20k. Smoke bomb doubles the damage of an already 20k attack to 40k.
Arrhh yes thanks for the reminder, I remember now why it was possible for perma smoke bomb not because it has short cooldown but also rather a long duration.
A 2 minute base equates to about 40 seconds on a properly geared CD toon. With revitalise working all the time, in 20 secs, this will be reduced by 60 percent while during the same 20 secs it will have cooled itself down hence it is very possible to use smoke bomb once every 20 seconds plus. Hence it is also possible to maintain perma smoke bomb.
I do hope you realise your example of palliate's problem as highlighted in other bug post was the fact that it was healing MUCH more than stated or as it was supposed to be. I read this in passing so I cannot be sure as I have not tested this myself. Revitalise Healer indestructible? You may wish to speak to Jewel Blueberry on this.
33 seconds later.... *rings* Hi Bethany.
I assume you word here is defies and not defines right?
Nah it is pulling them from other timelines to help but it takes energy and stress to maintain the rift between the timelines which allows the heroes from other timelines to enter our existing timeline to fight.
After 33 seconds, the hero has cooldown and summons again. Sense.
I would tend to agree that in some sense, constant nerf hammering is a poor contributor to the immediate bottom line - i.e. it is really easy to create an unstable atmosphere where no one knows what's next, feels frozen and helpless in what to choose out of that fear, as it were, and loses motivation for playing. Not even counting the peeps with direct fallout from the nerfs, who may just quit for that alone.
This is why it's better to add, create variety, and tweak, as apposed to HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER all the time, in general, as a design philosophy.
Not sure that this bears directly on Imbue (as the issues have been so multifarious and they're just not going to try and tackle it directly anymore), but them listening to peeps lauding new nerfs after new nerfs after new nerfs is probably exactly what you point out here: not really keeping an overall appreciation for the whole player base.
It does need to be tempered, listening to the select few. You can't go all or nothing either way - they're important for feedback and need to see change n all, but it can get kinda extreme. Some people just won't be happy unless the game is basically THEIRS.
No one complained until the devices came into play. So people, it will be good to focus. Let's not talk about nerfing any other powers anymore and focus on what should be a good way to control the backups while keeping them reasonably useful.
I propose cutting each activation to 1/10 its damage output. Separate the cool downs and allow revitalise to work. the cool down on each of these devices should also be around say 3 minutes base. Why three minutes? The devices will still need 30 seconds to cool down at a 3 minute timer so they cannot be permanently up.
3 minutes also means other players can use them 10 times more often now.
That is not even needed for this option I think, if for instance you set the reduction cap at 3 seconds, having 6% reduction will work like it does now for anything that has a recharge of 50 seconds or lower.
This I agree VERY, VERY, much. I did not really wanna say this but I am getting quite tired having to retcon and rebuild my toons after each nerf. So I am actually watching how this goes down. I have signed up for beta testing elsewhere (not going to mention) already but it will be a pity to end a nearly 2 years run with CO and some good friends which I have made in game.
Ok, I'll agree with this too, I'm getting rather aggrivated with how many things in CO are utterly broken, however, (which agitates a lot of people, I think). I think things need to be nerfed while others need to be buffed, nerfing isn't bad when done in moderation (recreating Imbue wasn't my idea, but now its scary good in a new way, I don't like that) Simply lowering the numbers on some things (AoPM just needs lower overal numbers...+50 instead of +70) or fixing the actual bugs on others (I'm looking at imbue) usually fixes the issue, but too many times do we get total reworks (Imbue), I'm more inclined to blame development for that.
Base recharge? Hey that sounds fine, just then they need to address the issue of ridiculously long CD s on devices (3 hours for a silly manimal become)
(Before someone protests, I am not saying the Backup devices shouldn't be toned down a bit.)
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I know Devs needed some kind of fix to this OP device, bust not few of us have already equipped them on one toon. And those are bound, if someone have already equipped 5 backups, 4 will be just useless scrap...
Please fix this not "bound" but "Tradeable" or "Bind on Account" like vehicle devices at least.
Plz care about huge resource and time we spent to get those super rare Devices. T.T
Either that, or just nerf their damage to something reasonable and remove the shared cooldown. As proposed and I repeat, lower their damage to 1/10 of what they do. 5 backups doing 50k damage over 15 seconds is really not that much. Allow revitalise to work with them again. That equates to 50k damage over 30 plus seconds which adds a dps of 1.6k.
That sound nice too.
Anyway I didn't expect this kind of nurf... Terrible. >.<
Todd's a Lumberjack and he's okay!
He sleeps all night and he works all day!
If y'all ever need a healer for Gravy, don't be afraid to give me a shout. I'm always up for a lil gravy if I ain't doin' anything
The bloodmoon pre-alert drop has already been reported. There is no response yet whether they are supposed to drop old gear. There are some old gear which may still be useful like the secondary perception gear.
I kinda like how the skill points are actually awarded as if the skill increase is an item inside the skill node. At least this bug is fixed!!
However the crafting vendors are bugged, the first cap raise needs lvl 25 and costs 10N, but i was unable to get with my lvl 40 who has 2G 89N, and 100 skill, i got the message not enough resources.
So while this build will let players get to 100 crafting skill, this vendor bug stops everyone from getting higher than 100 still.
Oh not again for the love of god would people stop harping on about AoPM it only becomes broken when people really min/max with it just as anything else becomes broken when people min/max.
Lets just ban any one why min/maxes from the game there problem solved.
Its kinda hard to not break the game with AoPM, it just gives you everything, you don't even have to min/max it, every combination works with it. But when combos that were already good are applied, it becomes OP, if they actually sat down and looked the numbers over, and how getting 560 stats from this passive is rather ridiculous, maybe we wouldn't have these issues.
Can you give an example of how this is breaking the PvE game, i.e. are people tanking Gravitar with it or 1-shotting Dr. Destroyer?
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
It makes the game silly easy, allowing you to pull DPS numbers while tanking while healing. Thats breaking the game.
Futhermore its the most used passive for all this, it practically spoils players (like gear does).
Breaking the pve game is not at all the same as being unbalanced or easy for the player (the game is easy with any optimized build).
+1
I don't really see it used in PvE that much, not more than any other passive anyway. And there are a lot of builds that allow you to have good DPS while tanking and healing.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
While this power is being looked into, could the threat whipe aspect be fixed please.
What passives don't make the game "silly easy"?
It's the only passive that actually provides a useful benefit for certain playstyle choices (mainly bubble-using healers). And no, AoAC's level of benefit is not "useful".
Yes, bubble/conviction/imbue spam has been the go-to complaint in PvP for a bit, but that's not "making the game silly easy". That's "dozens of people in Ren Center use it and think they're awesome because they can spike in duels".
The Imbue nerf, just like the Enrage nerf, is probably going to make AoPM a bit less popular for "general" PvE use, and it'll stay about as popular in PvP use.
TL;DR version: You can nerf AoPM (again) when you give a valid, useful, usable passive for bubble users that boosts shield strength and energy efficiency.
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The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
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Regardless, its better than every other passive in the game, thank you On-Alert.
I thought Seraphim (healing strength) also boosted shield strength.
Smoke Grenade doesn't wipe threat, it debuffs perception (placates with advantage). I think you're thinking of Smoke Bomb.
Ooops, my bad.
Unless it's changed in the past month, the healing strength boost from Seraphim doesn't affect shield strength. This is contrary to how most heal strength buffs work, but no one ever really pressed to get it fixed because AoPM works better for actually using shields as a support tool in a group setting. The End/Rec from it, combined with support role and cost discount gear combines pretty well to actually let you afford using them. Even if Seraphim's heal boost component contributed to shields, you'd still be somewhat energy-starved using them.
When Compassion was being worked on, we pointed out that it'd be useless to shield users if it didn't buff shield strength, so its heal strength contributes to them, but that change was never ported to Seraphim (unless it has been in the past month).
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The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
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Basically, building for crits is the only option now. For offensive gear, unless you are a dedicated healer (and perhaps even then), you'll want to go +Crits. For defensive gear, it is +Dodge/Avoidance. For Utility gear, there are a couple of choices but +Cooldown Reduction has taken a huge nerf.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I agree on imbue, they just gave up on it, which is understandable, but unfortunate.
The changes to devices could very well have a good reason. This way cryptic gets a lot more freedom in adding devices, without having to worry about some synergy blowing up game balance (of course all crits, damage, etc, bonuses would need to be removed too).
This has always been that way, again, Crit Strike and Dodge/Avoid have been the only viable options, we've bitched, moaned, and complained about it since On Alert, nothing is new here.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming