Need help understanding something.

ajanus

First off, I want to say that I understand that a lot of toons are made with a specific theme in mind of the builder.

However, stats, to me, are what can make the theme work. In my view, character themes are what you want others to "see." Which leaves stats, talents, specializations all open to the choices of the player.

Now, I will say, that most of my builds are pretty optimized, and that is how I see a lot of powers and stats in this game. Which leads me to my Primary Superstat choices:

Dps: DEX, STR, or EGO.

Why? Those are the stats that give Crit Severity. Crit and Offense are both easy to get high numbers on due to end game gear choices, so the stat that isn't controlled by that is Crit Severity, which I want covered in all 3 of my specializations, and sometimes, my mastery choice.

Those 3 picks are going to add around 20%-40% more Crit Severity just for picking them as Primary stats over everything else. To me, that is a pretty significant amount of damage you lose for picking something else for dps.

Tank: STR, DEX, or CON.

Why? Those are the trees that have the most survivability that can lead to end-game tanking. Juggernaut, Elusive/Evasion, and all of the CON tree all have significant places in how to be an effective tank.

Support: PRE, DEX, or INT

Why? Bonuses to heals, cooldown reductions, crits (crits are always good, no matter the role...especially with AoED) Of course, these choices will likely be more subject to change based on the player than the other roles due to playstyles and builds, but these are my picks for "the best" support toons.

Notice: REC and END never made the "Primary SS" cut.

Why? Energy management at the end game has so much going for it. Forms, Unlocks, Spec Trees (like Insight from EGO), and most importantly, Cost Reduction Utility Gear. All of these combined make these stats as primary seem really subpar.

Now, I do take a lot of these others as Secondary stats for sure. I just don't see them being Primary material at all, and even on the other role choices, it's hard to justify taking a Primary outside of their "big 3," at least for me.

For instance, taking INT for a Power Armor dps toon. I get that it used to be absolutely necessary without a doubt. But now? EGO with Concentration, Utility gear, Overdrive with Secondary SS Rec, and Insight for more cost reduction...Int as a secondary ss would be acceptable, but not as a Primary, to me.

Primary END on Lightning/Fire/Wind toons. Really, the Lightning SS thread is what really sparked this whole thing for me. I would always take DEX or EGO for those, and just use End as a Secondary. Again, you have Concentration, Unlocks, and Utility gear so it just comes down to whatever spec tree is best to use.

This way of thinking is also what makes me think some sets are better than what others seem to think. Munitions was brought up in another thread a couple of days ago. I see Munitions as really good, only because of what I use when I play it. Assault Rifle, Concentration, SMG/Gatling Gun, with EGO or DEX is just awesome. Top if off with Kinetic Manipulation for complete Alert carnage. I have literally levelled 3 toons from 11-40 with that primer through Smash Alerts with 0 fails. The reason I do 3 is: 1. to see if it can be done, 2. to make sure the first wasn't just lucky, and 3. to solidify the theory.

So I guess my way of thinking could be different, as I see powersets from their most powerful abilities down to their least. So as a freeform, when I make characters, I can always fill in choices with "the best" powers from another set when I have nothing else to pick from my current set.

So really, what I want to understand is, what goes through everyone's mind when they choose superstats and powers? Am I completely missing something concerning superstats and their respective spec trees?

ashensnow

I tend to see the stats and such as generic and meaningless in terms of concept (with the exception of strength because it allows you to perform acts of superhuman strength such as lifting).

In my opinion the stats are like the brand of pen you use when writing a description of your character. It doesnt matter if you use a Pilot brand, Pentel, or whatever. Its the finished description that matters.

If your character is not supposed to be Reed Richards smart, but your build calls for SS INT, go for it, it doesnt matter. Roleplay the character as smart or dumb as you like, as your concept calls for. The numbers mean nothing as far as concept.

secksegai

Muni needs help badly. Don't forget just because some powers are effective, doesn't mean others are - all the pistols for example pale in comparison.

In building, I decide what I want it to do first (hopefully) before getting into stats. There's just a lot of number crunching for me, and deciding whether I'll actually use something once its outside the ph.

Bottom line for me is performance, but I don't focus directly on one facet too much. All my ranged toons have significant strength for knock resistance, even tho it offers no damage scaling unless it happens to be a secondary.

ajanus

I listed CON for Defiance, and for the talent that gives health on Crit (Adrenaline? forgot the name). I was actually able to hold aggro and tank 2 of the LVL60 Mega-Ds with almost no threat to my toon. I did die once, because I got greedy on a DE maintain and got mega-held and my active offense didn't fully break it before the *BOOM* happened.

I would be interested to hear a short summary of a dps build that uses INT...more importantly, a dps build that doesn't rely on Crit Severity for the big hits. (You don't have to list the build, just say what it is in general)

This is what I see:

Crit Severity:

INT +0, Vindicator +15, Guardian (or most other trees) +10, Mastery +0, Innate +50 = 75% If you sacrifice the Primary gear Crit for Crit Sev, you could hit 80%. In that same build, just switching INT for DEX and Secondary Int, you add around 25%+ from the tree and another 10% from Mastery, putting you at 115%, plus another 10% or so Crit Chance.

Now, I'm not saying a build that "prefers" INT doesn't exist...I'm just saying, in all the builds floating around in my head, I can't find one that INT is "better" than one of the 3 dps stats I listed above as a Primary.​​

kallethen

I can agree about END, but REC does have some uses as a primary SS, specifically those who rely on Overdrive as an energy unlock. Such as my PA toon. Outside of that... yeah, not impressed.​​

hubrix

ajanus wrote: »

For instance, taking INT for a Power Armor dps toon. I get that it used to be absolutely necessary without a doubt. But now? EGO with Concentration, Utility gear, Overdrive with Secondary SS Rec, and Insight for more cost reduction...Int as a secondary ss would be acceptable, but not as a Primary, to me.

I'm not really sure about this. Personally I'd like to see an EGO based PA go up against my own INT based one just so I can retcon if it really is better.

ajanus

hubrix wrote: »

I'm not really sure about this. Personally I'd like to see an EGO based PA go up against my own INT based one just so I can retcon if it really is better.

I will definitely give it a go at some point. But for now, here are some numbers concerning cost discount.

@401 EGO, Insight gives 41% cost discount. (keep in mind this is with 0 Int)

@170 Int, cost discount is 45%, effectively making just the 3/3 Insight worth about 160 Int

@401 EGO, Concentration gives +50 energy on stack application

@141 Rec, Overdrive gives +11 energy/3 secs, up to +33/3 secs.

Info I don't have is what discount INT gives @400

Also keep in mind this is not including the Heroic Utiltiy piece with cost discount mod.

So, by that, if 170-401 Int gives more than a 41% cost discount, it may be worth taking INT soley on the cost discount basis.

However, also factor in for the character's sake, that 401 EGO also boosts Crit Severity by 32% and my Crit Chance by 7%. So, if it is worth sacrificing 32/7 Sev/Chance, for a few % cost reduction then INT would be the better choice.

So, for just purely cost reduction, if I ran a toon with 401 EGO, 170 Int, 141 Rec, and took 3/3 Insight, I would be effectively running a toon with 401 EGO, 330 Int, 141 Rec, assuming no diminishing returns yet, which I think start adding in around the 250 mark.

Where this whole thing gets interesting, and my Cryptic math is a bit off, as I am sure most people's is, is the spec in INT that gives you a bonus to your other stats' natural bonuses. For instance, Ranged Damage for Ego. I haven't messed with INT enough to know the intricacies of that part of the tree, so if someone wants to provide insight on that, I would be all for it.

kaiserin

ajanus wrote: »

I listed CON for Defiance, and for the talent that gives health on Crit (Adrenaline? forgot the name). I was actually able to hold aggro and tank 2 of the LVL60 Mega-Ds with almost no threat to my toon. I did die once, because I got greedy on a DE maintain and got mega-held and my active offense didn't fully break it before the *BOOM* happened.

I would be interested to hear a short summary of a dps build that uses INT...more importantly, a dps build that doesn't rely on Crit Severity for the big hits. (You don't have to list the build, just say what it is in general)

This is what I see:

Crit Severity:

INT +0, Vindicator +15, Guardian (or most other trees) +10, Mastery +0, Innate +50 = 75% If you sacrifice the Primary gear Crit for Crit Sev, you could hit 80%. In that same build, just switching INT for DEX and Secondary Int, you add around 25%+ from the tree and another 10% from Mastery, putting you at 115%, plus another 10% or so Crit Chance.

Now, I'm not saying a build that "prefers" INT doesn't exist...I'm just saying, in all the builds floating around in my head, I can't find one that INT is "better" than one of the 3 dps stats I listed above as a Primary.

You don't need to primary SS Con for Defiance, it can be a secondary, upgrades are so easily changed around to fit any stat spread you want.

Int is for pet builds, specifically using (abusing) Revitalize.

alfinpogform

What kind of recharge powers do they abuse? I've been trying to figure out how to make a pet build work.​​

hubrix

alfinpogform wrote: »

What kind of recharge powers do they abuse? I've been trying to figure out how to make a pet build work.

First you grab as many backup devices as you can. Grab INT as a primary with the Revitalize spec. Get Radiance as an EB and target yourself. Get Nanobot Swarm and used it every time it goes off CD. Stack INT and CD redux gear. Lastly, cackle as the Champs take down Gravitar in less than 100 seconds.

You might also want to grab Imbue so all those Radiance heals will crit but I feel that's cheating.