Thor-Clone: Defiance or AoPM?

shaenthebrain

The idea here is mainly a Heavy Weapon based Brick, with a bit of an otherworldly aura, who calls down the occasional massive lightning bolt from the sky periodically, just to remind everyone that they're a freaking thunder god.

Looking at the available powers, I'm torn between two approaches: Either enjoying the synergy between Enrage and Defiance, or taking Aura of Primal Majesty like that old Pulsewave build. Not just like it, as this build would focus primarily on close attacks and rage, but the same basic idea.

Build 1

Build 2

Side note: The idea is that Thunderstrike and Lightning Storm will wind up creating, and then consuming, enough Negative Ions to get use out of Ionic Reverberation. If that won't work, let me know and I can easily switch it out for Molecular Self Assembly.

Build 1:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Devastator
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Martial Focus
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Bodybuilder

Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Defensive Stance)
Level 6: Defiance (Rank 2, Force of Will)
Level 8: Enrage (Rank 2, Endorphin Rush)
Level 11: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Guard (Punitive Pummeling)
Level 17: Vicious Descent (Relentless)
Level 20: Aggressor
Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Reverence)
Level 26: Imbue
Level 29: Thunderstrike (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Lightning Storm (Rank 2, Stolen Thunder)
Level 35: Ionic Reverberation
Level 38: Unbreakable (Better You Than Me)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Acrobatics

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Quick Recovery (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Overpower (3/3)
Vindicator: Merciless (2/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (1/2)
Warden: Reactive Strikes (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

Build 2:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Devastator
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Martial Focus
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Bodybuilder

Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Guard (Punitive Pummeling)
Level 8: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Enrage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Vicious Descent (Relentless)
Level 17: Aggressor
Level 20: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Reverence)
Level 26: Imbue
Level 29: Thunderstrike (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Lightning Storm (Rank 2, Stolen Thunder)
Level 35: Ionic Reverberation
Level 38: Unbreakable (Better You Than Me)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Acrobatics

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Quick Recovery (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Overpower (3/3)
Vindicator: Merciless (2/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (1/2)
Warden: Reactive Strikes (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

doll1989

They really need to update wiki. :rolleyes: There is no synergy between defiance and enrage anymore. Enrage is now a form like form of the tempest or concentration. Enrage stacks when you knock things, or actually just use power that has knock in it. And it scales with STR, so it will work great with your build. Annihilate will stack it and because of STR damage bonus will be great.

Also, don't rank defiance, same as forms ranking it isn't worth it. You will get stacks of it fast enought anyways. Not sure about force of will. Some say you will be dead before it provide you a good knock resistance, some say it's fine.

Defensive stance, not sure what it does, applies defiance or enrage? Well, with both I wouldn't recommend you taking it, just rank it to rank 3.

Aggressor is an active offence, just thought I need to notice it. Keep it as hold braker. When something holds you klick it and hold is gone. (mm, does aggressor actually breakes holds? I think some active offence don't, but I am not sure here)

Conviction is a very good heal. Requires some energy, but not to much. I heard that rank 3 is a must when conviction is the main healing power in the build. Not sure here, but I am sure that reverence on it is pointless. AOE range is to low and because you won't run in support role and won't have PRE as 1 of the SS's it's just a waste of 2 advantage points.

Imbue is great. But make sure your CON will be at relatively high lvls, with INT and cd reduction gear you will be able to use it quiet often.

Thunderstrike and lightning storm there are for theme I suppose? Well, you can keep them. But I would recommend you to take only 1 of them and use it only for theme, not as base attacks. Your entire build is made that way that those 2 powers just don't synergize with anything else in it. Except for ionic reverberation. But here's the thing, IR scales with END as I remember (and with REC a little bit, as all of the energy unlocks). So it won't return enough energy to you. Also, you actually with have to first add negative ions to target before it will start returning energy to you. There are few powers that have 100% chance or just high enough chance to do it, but you don't have them in your build. (thunderstrike doesn't apply negative ions, doesn't it?) So you better take molecular self-assembly (MSA) instead of ionic reverberation. You then can use conviction to trigger MSA or take instead of those 2 thunder powers eruption or lunge and use them to feed MSA.

I heard that better you then me will be removed sometimes. Because it's just pointless now, when enrage is a form.

If you will have any question, please ask. If anyone will disagree with my opinions, please do. But please explain why, so I myself can learn something from it.

jonesing4

Please tell me you aren't really going to make a Thor clone without using Brimstone?!

jonesing4

OK, had a chance to actually look at the builds now. I ended up picking the Defiance version to tinker with--I think it fits the theme a little better, and I really hate the effects on AoPM (really doesn't fit a Thor-type destroyer, either). As always, these are only my opinions and in no way reflect the views of experts, smart people, or folks who know what they're doing. Just some thoughts, many of them echoing what doll already mentioned.

- There were a couple of things in there that seemed like they were more for theme than function. That's awesome, by the way, as I tend to build on theme first as well. Just want to make sure you're aware of a few things, though. Like:

- Punitive Pummeling (advantage on Guard that causes KB) can be a pain. Not as much with this build since you've got ranged attacks, but just be aware that it's going to make it a little tougher to gather the scum so you can smash them with a tidy AoE if you're knocking back while you block.

- Reverence on Conviction isn't going to do anything for you. Again, conceptually it's cool and it's a pretty good party-friendly advantage, but for personal play you're better taking Conviction to R3.

- Drop "Force of Will" from Defiance, it really is one of the most useless powers/advantages in the game.

- Can probably drop the rank on Defiance as well, though that's a personal choice. I always find myself building to 6 in no time, but YMMV.

- Along those same lines, you can probably drop the rank on Enraged if you want to. You've got plenty of ways of building up 8 stacks, so you should be staying there pretty comfortably even without the head start. Again, a personal call.

- Same quibble on Unbreakable--you don't really need it to give you stacks of Enraged, since most likely you'll only be using Unbreakable in the middle of a fight (where you'll almost always have plenty of rage already).

- Seriously, you've gotta get Brimstone in there! One of the coolest-looking powers in the game, tailor-made for a thundergod. Good PBAoE damage, as well. In my build (below) I put it in Cleave's place. I know people love Cleave, but it was the only way I could justify putting it in the build, and you aren't exactly hurting for attacks with your lightning stuff. If you do drop Cleave, be sure to also drop the Slaughter spec, since Cleave is your only combo power.

- Stat choices: I don't know how well Ionic Reverb will work with STR/CON/INT as your SS's. It scales off of END and REC, but I honestly just don't know if it's still effective with small numbers in those stats, or not.

- You also took took the Quick Recovery spec in the STR tree, which scales off of REC. If you don't have that as a SS, you aren't gonna get much out of that.

- More with Ionic Reverb... the problem with using Thunderstrike to apply Negative Ions is that when you hit something with Thunderstrike, it's not gonna be alive very long (bosses excluded). So you often won't have a chance to capitalize on the Negative Ion application (which drives Ionic Reverb). I'm just afraid that's gonna be a clumsy way of using your Energy Unlock.

- If you do go with MSA, you can keep INT as a SS which will help you use Imbue more often. And you've got plenty of ways to proc it: your lunge, Conviction, Thunderstrike, Imbue, Unbreakable, Aggressor. Should be a pretty solid choice.



Sorry, that's alot of nitpicks... it's a cool-looking build, I'm just not sure that you aren't short-changing yourself on functionality in a few spots. I put together a build, trying not to change TOO much stuff. Take it or leave it, maybe some of this stuff will be useful to you or others.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Devastator
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Martial Focus
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Bodybuilder

Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Defiance
Level 6: Guard (Punitive Pummeling)
Level 8: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 14: Brimstone (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Vicious Descent (Relentless)
Level 20: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Reverence)
Level 26: Imbue (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Thunderstrike (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Lightning Storm (Rank 2, Stolen Thunder)
Level 35: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 38: Unbreakable

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Acrobatics

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Overpower (3/3)
Vindicator: Merciless (2/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (1/2)
Warden: Reactive Strikes (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

secksegai

doll1989 wrote: »

They really need to update wiki. :rolleyes: There is no synergy between defiance and enrage anymore.

There's still a synergy. If you're missing it, you need to look at enrage's endorphin rush.

Also, keep in mind the wiki is run by a lone fan and volunteers with no assistance from Cryptic. At all.

secksegai

shaenthebrain wrote: »

The idea here is mainly a Heavy Weapon based Brick, with a bit of an otherworldly aura, who calls down the occasional massive lightning bolt from the sky periodically, just to remind everyone that they're a freaking thunder god.

Looking at the available powers, I'm torn between two approaches: Either enjoying the synergy between Enrage and Defiance, or taking Aura of Primal Majesty like that old Pulsewave build. Not just like it, as this build would focus primarily on close attacks and rage, but the same basic idea.

It really depends on what you plan on fighting. AoPM works wonders but it isn't a def passive. Solo, short of 5 man lairs, you can get by on AoPM. In fact, you can even get through 5 main lairs on AoPM, it just gets a bit tricky.

For general teamplay or fighting rougher targets regulary, defiance is a safer bet, but it makes stat management much more challenging.

jorifice1

Just a quick point or two:
Several of the Heavy Weapons powers, including Brimstone, have fire effects. THERMAL reverberation rather than Electric works quite well with these attacks.
My favourite little trick is to take Brimstone with the Advantage that gives you a Fire Field with Enraged as my Toggle and Thermal Reverb. as my Energy Unlock. Hit Imbue. Fully charge Brimstone. You get several stacks of Enraged (from the Knockdowns) AND a nice big hit of energy from Thermal Reverb. that just keeps on coming as long as anything survives due to your Fire Field allowing Brimstone to actually act as a full blown Energy Builder.
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doll1989

jorifice1 wrote: »

Just a quick point or two:
Several of the Heavy Weapons powers, including Brimstone, have fire effects. THERMAL reverberation rather than Electric works quite well with these attacks.
My favourite little trick is to take Brimstone with the Advantage that gives you a Fire Field with Enraged as my Toggle and Thermal Reverb. as my Energy Unlock. Hit Imbue. Fully charge Brimstone. You get several stacks of Enraged (from the Knockdowns) AND a nice big hit of energy from Thermal Reverb. that just keeps on coming as long as anything survives due to your Fire Field allowing Brimstone to actually act as a full blown Energy Builder.
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I have a question. Doesn't fire reverb triggers from clinging flames, not just fire damage? And adv. on brimstone has like 10% chance to trigger clinging flames? Another question is, doesn't enrage have internal cd? As I thought it can't give more then 1 stack in every 3 seconds. Am I missing something here?

jorifice1

Sorry, haven't used Enraged in the last month or so. I believe that at one point that level two and three of Enraged allowed you to build more that one stack at a time. As far as Thermal Reverb. goes, I believe that the math works like this:
3 opponents. 10% chance applying Thermal Reverb./tik. 1 tik/second.=30% chance of Thermal Reverb. per second. I could be wrong on this, but it seems to work that way for me. So, the more opponents you have to face, the more effective it is.
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tdits

And if you add in Unstoppable to that then you can double dip on the knockdown energy.

themightyzenith

jonesing4 wrote: »

Please tell me you aren't really going to make a Thor clone without using Brimstone?!

THIS^ Brimstone is a must for a Thor type toon, thematically speaking. I don't really use it in combat, I use it with my battle-cry and with my costume change

shaenthebrain

Here's the current build:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Marksman
Level 6: Coordinated
Level 9: Shooter
Level 12: Academics
Level 15: Daredevil
Level 18: Investigator
Level 21: Accurate

Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Defiance (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Enrage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Vicious Descent (Relentless)
Level 17: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 20: Thunderstrike (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Imbue
Level 29: Resurgence
Level 32: Unbreakable
Level 35: Guard (Punitive Pummeling)
Level 38: Molecular Self-Assembly

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Quick Recovery (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Overpower (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

2 Active Offenses & 2 Active Defenses.

I'm still torn between REC and INT for that 3rd super-stat.

Thunderstrike only gets used after popping Ego Surge, which pushes EGO up to the edge of diminishing returns.