AFAIK the game was easy (by hardcore gamer standards) right from the get go. The F2P patch gave us passives that scaled with stats we chose rather than specific stats.. e.g. Shadow Form used to scale off Con and End I believe, if you didn't have Con and End as SS then your passive was reduced in effect. This meant that if you wanted an SS Dex based crit darkness build you would need to sacrifice some of the damage from your passive coz you only had the two SS. With F2P Shadow Form and many others scale to whatever you want your stats to be.
On Alert gave us fantastic gear, the actual stat bonuses are not that far off original high end gear but the secondary effects are very substantial. Enough to make a crit build with either no Dex or a very small amount of. I used to dream of a Defensive passive Cascade build with good crit prob and now I have two.
Auras got a massive bonus to their effects too (can't remember when).
Pre pass AORP for example (with circa 260+ Pre) gave..
Rank 3:
+46% damage resistance to self
+37% damage resistance to others
Now when in Hybrid mode personal Damage resistance is 80-90+% and allies get 50+%
The spec trees give us more bonuses to various aspects of our characters, not as decisive as the gear perhaps but yet another edge we didn't have before.
The changes to Dodge mechanics, tho it did put a bit of a crimp in the ubar dodge statted builds of the players also seriously nerfed the baddies esp on elite. Once upon a time power ups were pretty much wasted on Elite settings so you tapped em and used high damage maintains instead. I mean there was a thread or two moaning that the only things they saw in high level lairs were Sword Cyclone, Lightning Storm, Avalanche and Skarns Bane.
Summary our characters have grown in power and survivability substantially, 2 or 3 times? as effective as they once were. There has been no difficulty pass to keep in line with any of this.
Another balance issue is self healing, I guess I must have whined about Gravitars cascades along with others but... Unless she absolutely hammers me with a succession of powerful attacks then I'm just gonna heal up and get back in her face. The undisclosed one shot/cascade storm in Gravs case is about the only mechanic that can threaten a good player with a reasonable build.
Currently I find challenge in the early stages of the game before my builds come together, but I'm not a hardcore gamer. It could be argued that the difficulty is a joke amongst serious gamers. It maybe time to consider the appeal of the game or lack of it to the hardcore fraternity. The too easy rep may affect sales.
_____________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
I detest Elitists, don't try to make the game harder for everybody that only suits yourself, not all of us are godlike, trying playing without gear and a Slotted Passive on, or Elite Solo, or do everything wrong, if you don't mind denting your Ego.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I detest Elitists, don't try to make the game harder for everybody that only suits yourself, not all of us are godlike, trying playing without gear and a Slotted Passive on, or Elite Solo, or do everything wrong, if you don't mind denting your Ego.
I don't get that.
I don't want to make it "harder for everybody".
I want to make it harder for ME!
No one wants to push it on every other player.
I just want the possibility to raise my difficulty.
Every other player may keep playing on "normal" (even a gimped toon can be a superhero) if he likes but a seriously build character can hardly find a challenge even on elite.
And for all the whinners suggesting garbage like "play without gear" THAT's forcing something on someone.
Every noob already has the possibility to play on "normal", but some people might want a real PVE challenge.
Sorry for getting rude, but I'm sick and tired of that "if your godlike, gimp yourself" arguments.
AFAIK the game was easy (by hardcore gamer standards) right from the get go.
...
Summary our characters have grown in power and survivability substantially, 2 or 3 times? as effective as they once were. There has been no difficulty pass to keep in line with any of this.
...
Currently I find challenge in the early stages of the game before my builds come together, but I'm not a hardcore gamer. It could be argued that the difficulty is a joke amongst serious gamers. It maybe time to consider the appeal of the game or lack of it to the hardcore fraternity. The too easy rep may affect sales.
I detest Elitists, don't try to make the game harder for everybody that only suits yourself, not all of us are godlike, trying playing without gear and a Slotted Passive on, or Elite Solo, or do everything wrong, if you don't mind denting your Ego.
Exactly.
I mean, the thing is is that 99% of MMORPGs out there right now are cynical. They're difficult, grindy, padded out the wazoo, and decidedly unfun. And people want to do that to the one that's different... why? No, really... why?
The thing is is that CO is generating a reputation for what you just said, there. It's becoming known as the MMORPG you can play casually, moreso than GW2. It's the game where you don't have to set aside your job, your social life, your other hobbies, your partner, and all of those things which should matter to you in order to play a game. It's just fun!
If Perfect World actually marketed this game based upon these qualities, they'd likely quintuple their subscribers overnight. When I tell someone about this game I'm met with a very stern, analytical eye. Because an MMORPG can't be like that, right? An MMORPG can't actually be fun. An MMORPG has to be cynical, it has to either nickel and dime you, or put you through years and years of padded content, grinding so hard that nothing else can matter. So that there is only the game.
If you tell someone that there's one game out there (CO) which isn't like that? They won't believe it. Not unless you get them to try it. Then it blows them away. That's the experience a friend of mine had recently, and she was absolutely incredulous as to why there weren't way more people playing this game.
And the fault there is advertising. This game is just advertised wrongly. If they started a serious advertising campaign, focusing on how this is a fun, non-grindy, non-cynical MMORPG, they'd see so many people hop on. People just don't realise that CO is fun.
But people who play CO realise this. It's the one, magical MMORPG which isn't cynical.
Just this one. Only this one. And I want it to remain that way. So that those of us who don't want our wallets siphoned or our social lives stolen away have at least one, last bastion of online entertainment.
What would happen if they made it cynical and grindy?
People like you and me would leave overnight. And to be honest, I think there are more people in this game like you and me than there are elitists. Elitists are always a vocal minority, they're loud, and they make a lot of posts, but they're not representative of the sentiment of everyone. They never are. In fact, their opinions are frequently unpopular.
And the fact of the matter is is, just like you said, if you want the game to be harder then you make it harder. Play Serpent Lantern on Elite with white items instead of those shiny purples, then you'll get all the challenge you want. But why ruin the game for us?
Why do Elitists want to kill this game for us?
Why?
They can choose to use white items on Elite in Serpent Lantern. But if the game is turned into the cynical, WoW-like grindfest that they desire, then... what do we have? We have nothing. We can't turn back the clock on that. Our only choice is to leave.
So the way to handle the future of the game is obvious, if you ask me.
I don't get that.
I don't want to make it "harder for everybody".
I want to make it harder for ME!
No one wants to push it on every other player.
I just want the possibility to raise my difficulty.
Every other player may keep playing on "normal" (even a gimped toon can be a superhero) if he likes but a seriously build character can hardly find a challenge even on elite.
And for all the whinners suggesting garbage like "play without gear" THAT's forcing something on someone.
Every noob already has the possibility to play on "normal", but some people might want a real PVE challenge.
Sorry for getting rude, but I'm sick and tired of that "if your godlike, gimp yourself" arguments.
Since it hasn't probably been stated, the issue in difficulty has been developing balanced difficulty (according to GC while he still appeared in channel). The ability to self-heal takes away most challenge short of having the ai "cheat". If you're looking for difficulty, this is the wrong game. I mean, I can find difficulty daily, having to carry lowbies in a smash alert and somehow manage to tank/dps on an AT squishy and still try to eek more damage to make up for what the lowbies lack. As far as alerts go, your teammates can very well dictate your difficulty.
Solo play you aren't gonna get much more. I mean, I could devise things that would make for extreme difficulty, and the majority of that would be inspired from pvp. But there's no way for your typical pve player to play at that level, especially as ATs.
But think of it this way, as far as alerts go, it should be pretty apparent that player skill levels vary, and their character level greatly affects their performance since your teammates can typically be as low as level 6 or as high as 40. There's simply no effective way to increase difficulty evenly for such a myriad of builds.
I myself get my challenge from pvp as another player can be far more dangerous and effective than anything you'll fight pve wise.
I don't get a kick out of soloing. I make my own difficulty. I find teams for lairs or do gravitar and throw around iniquity at my health's expense while tanking and try not to die.
Tank, heal and res players after being down to the last player in gravitar. I can do it on multiple DPS or tank oriented toons of mine. And I use R4 mods, silver recog, and secondaries bought off AH for cheap. I actually plan stats around what secondaries are cheaply available rather than plan to optimise.
I'm no elitist, I don't feel the need to change the game for anyone, or for them to play in any similar manner. But, I am very team oriented (not that it's easy to find teams for lairs nowadays), and I get satisfaction when I'm effective in teams when the odds are against us.
I see too many soloist builds and their self centered play style, the game's difficulty won't daunt them for sure, while his PUG may be faceplanting. At least they made the game's difficulty higher for their PUGs with their mad rush and sense of invincibility, those PUGs won't be complaining that the game's too easy for sure.
Comments
AFAIK the game was easy (by hardcore gamer standards) right from the get go. The F2P patch gave us passives that scaled with stats we chose rather than specific stats.. e.g. Shadow Form used to scale off Con and End I believe, if you didn't have Con and End as SS then your passive was reduced in effect. This meant that if you wanted an SS Dex based crit darkness build you would need to sacrifice some of the damage from your passive coz you only had the two SS. With F2P Shadow Form and many others scale to whatever you want your stats to be.
On Alert gave us fantastic gear, the actual stat bonuses are not that far off original high end gear but the secondary effects are very substantial. Enough to make a crit build with either no Dex or a very small amount of. I used to dream of a Defensive passive Cascade build with good crit prob and now I have two.
Auras got a massive bonus to their effects too (can't remember when).
Pre pass AORP for example (with circa 260+ Pre) gave..
Rank 3:
+46% damage resistance to self
+37% damage resistance to others
Now when in Hybrid mode personal Damage resistance is 80-90+% and allies get 50+%
The spec trees give us more bonuses to various aspects of our characters, not as decisive as the gear perhaps but yet another edge we didn't have before.
The changes to Dodge mechanics, tho it did put a bit of a crimp in the ubar dodge statted builds of the players also seriously nerfed the baddies esp on elite. Once upon a time power ups were pretty much wasted on Elite settings so you tapped em and used high damage maintains instead. I mean there was a thread or two moaning that the only things they saw in high level lairs were Sword Cyclone, Lightning Storm, Avalanche and Skarns Bane.
Summary our characters have grown in power and survivability substantially, 2 or 3 times? as effective as they once were. There has been no difficulty pass to keep in line with any of this.
Another balance issue is self healing, I guess I must have whined about Gravitars cascades along with others but... Unless she absolutely hammers me with a succession of powerful attacks then I'm just gonna heal up and get back in her face. The undisclosed one shot/cascade storm in Gravs case is about the only mechanic that can threaten a good player with a reasonable build.
Currently I find challenge in the early stages of the game before my builds come together, but I'm not a hardcore gamer. It could be argued that the difficulty is a joke amongst serious gamers. It maybe time to consider the appeal of the game or lack of it to the hardcore fraternity. The too easy rep may affect sales.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I don't get that.
I don't want to make it "harder for everybody".
I want to make it harder for ME!
No one wants to push it on every other player.
I just want the possibility to raise my difficulty.
Every other player may keep playing on "normal" (even a gimped toon can be a superhero) if he likes but a seriously build character can hardly find a challenge even on elite.
And for all the whinners suggesting garbage like "play without gear" THAT's forcing something on someone.
Every noob already has the possibility to play on "normal", but some people might want a real PVE challenge.
Sorry for getting rude, but I'm sick and tired of that "if your godlike, gimp yourself" arguments.
Good points!
Exactly.
I mean, the thing is is that 99% of MMORPGs out there right now are cynical. They're difficult, grindy, padded out the wazoo, and decidedly unfun. And people want to do that to the one that's different... why? No, really... why?
The thing is is that CO is generating a reputation for what you just said, there. It's becoming known as the MMORPG you can play casually, moreso than GW2. It's the game where you don't have to set aside your job, your social life, your other hobbies, your partner, and all of those things which should matter to you in order to play a game. It's just fun!
If Perfect World actually marketed this game based upon these qualities, they'd likely quintuple their subscribers overnight. When I tell someone about this game I'm met with a very stern, analytical eye. Because an MMORPG can't be like that, right? An MMORPG can't actually be fun. An MMORPG has to be cynical, it has to either nickel and dime you, or put you through years and years of padded content, grinding so hard that nothing else can matter. So that there is only the game.
If you tell someone that there's one game out there (CO) which isn't like that? They won't believe it. Not unless you get them to try it. Then it blows them away. That's the experience a friend of mine had recently, and she was absolutely incredulous as to why there weren't way more people playing this game.
And the fault there is advertising. This game is just advertised wrongly. If they started a serious advertising campaign, focusing on how this is a fun, non-grindy, non-cynical MMORPG, they'd see so many people hop on. People just don't realise that CO is fun.
But people who play CO realise this. It's the one, magical MMORPG which isn't cynical.
Just this one. Only this one. And I want it to remain that way. So that those of us who don't want our wallets siphoned or our social lives stolen away have at least one, last bastion of online entertainment.
What would happen if they made it cynical and grindy?
People like you and me would leave overnight. And to be honest, I think there are more people in this game like you and me than there are elitists. Elitists are always a vocal minority, they're loud, and they make a lot of posts, but they're not representative of the sentiment of everyone. They never are. In fact, their opinions are frequently unpopular.
And the fact of the matter is is, just like you said, if you want the game to be harder then you make it harder. Play Serpent Lantern on Elite with white items instead of those shiny purples, then you'll get all the challenge you want. But why ruin the game for us?
Why do Elitists want to kill this game for us?
Why?
They can choose to use white items on Elite in Serpent Lantern. But if the game is turned into the cynical, WoW-like grindfest that they desire, then... what do we have? We have nothing. We can't turn back the clock on that. Our only choice is to leave.
So the way to handle the future of the game is obvious, if you ask me.
Since it hasn't probably been stated, the issue in difficulty has been developing balanced difficulty (according to GC while he still appeared in channel). The ability to self-heal takes away most challenge short of having the ai "cheat". If you're looking for difficulty, this is the wrong game. I mean, I can find difficulty daily, having to carry lowbies in a smash alert and somehow manage to tank/dps on an AT squishy and still try to eek more damage to make up for what the lowbies lack. As far as alerts go, your teammates can very well dictate your difficulty.
Solo play you aren't gonna get much more. I mean, I could devise things that would make for extreme difficulty, and the majority of that would be inspired from pvp. But there's no way for your typical pve player to play at that level, especially as ATs.
But think of it this way, as far as alerts go, it should be pretty apparent that player skill levels vary, and their character level greatly affects their performance since your teammates can typically be as low as level 6 or as high as 40. There's simply no effective way to increase difficulty evenly for such a myriad of builds.
I myself get my challenge from pvp as another player can be far more dangerous and effective than anything you'll fight pve wise.
Tank, heal and res players after being down to the last player in gravitar. I can do it on multiple DPS or tank oriented toons of mine. And I use R4 mods, silver recog, and secondaries bought off AH for cheap. I actually plan stats around what secondaries are cheaply available rather than plan to optimise.
I'm no elitist, I don't feel the need to change the game for anyone, or for them to play in any similar manner. But, I am very team oriented (not that it's easy to find teams for lairs nowadays), and I get satisfaction when I'm effective in teams when the odds are against us.
I see too many soloist builds and their self centered play style, the game's difficulty won't daunt them for sure, while his PUG may be faceplanting. At least they made the game's difficulty higher for their PUGs with their mad rush and sense of invincibility, those PUGs won't be complaining that the game's too easy for sure.