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Gravitar Battle Plan
polishlightning
Posts: 404 Arc User
I was just in a Gravitar alert that failed with her having about 300,000 HP left, and it didn't fail because she was to hard, it failed because we had zero team communication. So I thought I'd throw out some ideas on what players can do to make the missions successful.
-First, don't click recover. You will be locked out.
-If you're down post a message where. It may be hard for someone with Rez to see you, so instead of spamming the "Help, I'm down!" button, something like, "I'm down, NE corner, on top of the building." The more specific the better. I had one person write, "down on the side, by the tree". Not helpful.
-Prioritize rezzing. If a handful of you are down start chatting and let the Rezzer know who to get first, someone else with Rez or a tank who can actually stay alive should be first. If you're a DPS who dies after 1 or 2 force cascades, you shouldn't be on the top of this list.
Note: For those of you not rezzing, it's actually somewhat difficult if you're the only one left because both force attacks hit every second and interrupt the power. So be patient.
Hints on staying alive:
-Block. If you're getting killed with force geysers and force cascades, don't attack, just block. You're doing zero DPS while dead. Wait for the blue and yellow bars to pop over Grav's head, and if you're not in the bubbles then attack.
-Space yourselves out. Don't stand behind someone, there's plently of space.
-I'm still dying. Get alternate gear for the Grav fight. Silver Recog gear works great if you're a level 40. Slot Constitution mods and get the dodge/avoidance gear/mod combo. Staying alive is key to doing max DPS.
Gravitar attacks
-Black Sphere Reverse Repel is followed by blue sphere attack centered on Grav. -jellycupsowbug
-Grav starts using Orange Bubble at 1/3 health. -aiqa
-Orange Bubbles are the most deadly attack and are usually preceded by a blue stun bubble. -aiqa
--To add to this, Masterful Dodge works very well again these if you have atleast some previous dodge/avoidance.
-You can block blue stun bubbles, so when Grav get's down to 1/3 health, block all blue bubbles which will give you a chance to escape. -aiqa
-Most of the bubbles have a weird delay in how they work, you can see yourself be out of a bubble long before it hits, but it will still hit you. The only bubble that does not do this is the stun bubble. -aiqa
If anyone one has more advice or helpful hints I can add it.
-First, don't click recover. You will be locked out.
-If you're down post a message where. It may be hard for someone with Rez to see you, so instead of spamming the "Help, I'm down!" button, something like, "I'm down, NE corner, on top of the building." The more specific the better. I had one person write, "down on the side, by the tree". Not helpful.
-Prioritize rezzing. If a handful of you are down start chatting and let the Rezzer know who to get first, someone else with Rez or a tank who can actually stay alive should be first. If you're a DPS who dies after 1 or 2 force cascades, you shouldn't be on the top of this list.
Note: For those of you not rezzing, it's actually somewhat difficult if you're the only one left because both force attacks hit every second and interrupt the power. So be patient.
Hints on staying alive:
-Block. If you're getting killed with force geysers and force cascades, don't attack, just block. You're doing zero DPS while dead. Wait for the blue and yellow bars to pop over Grav's head, and if you're not in the bubbles then attack.
-Space yourselves out. Don't stand behind someone, there's plently of space.
-I'm still dying. Get alternate gear for the Grav fight. Silver Recog gear works great if you're a level 40. Slot Constitution mods and get the dodge/avoidance gear/mod combo. Staying alive is key to doing max DPS.
Gravitar attacks
-Black Sphere Reverse Repel is followed by blue sphere attack centered on Grav. -jellycupsowbug
-Grav starts using Orange Bubble at 1/3 health. -aiqa
-Orange Bubbles are the most deadly attack and are usually preceded by a blue stun bubble. -aiqa
--To add to this, Masterful Dodge works very well again these if you have atleast some previous dodge/avoidance.
-You can block blue stun bubbles, so when Grav get's down to 1/3 health, block all blue bubbles which will give you a chance to escape. -aiqa
-Most of the bubbles have a weird delay in how they work, you can see yourself be out of a bubble long before it hits, but it will still hit you. The only bubble that does not do this is the stun bubble. -aiqa
If anyone one has more advice or helpful hints I can add it.
Post edited by polishlightning on
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Comments
Teddy keeps her from attacking, so take advantage of it when it happens. The defense buff won't hurt the team. Think of it as a little bit of free damage, and recovery time for cool-downs and energy. She can also be knocked while in Teddy form. If she's in an akward spot, this is the chance to knock her to a better one. Don't worry about lost dps, time isn't a factor, but being dead is.
Watch what the other players are doing. It's important to know who can do what, and watching others will reveal that information.
If you have trouble doing the thing that you normally do well, try to find a new niche. I've seen some pretty interesting spontaneous adaption from a few people.
Most of the bubbles have a weird delay in how they work, you can see yourself be out of a bubble long before it hits, but it will still hit you. The only bubble that does not do this is the stun bubble.
80% of the time the orange bubble is preceded by a blue stun bubble, you recognize those by the targeting circle on the player in the center of the bubble, they also move when the targeted player moves (so be careful what you do when you get targeted by one).
When you do not block the stun bubble, you will be unable to flee the followup orange bubble, so after grav's health gets bellow 33% you should always block the stun bubbles.
With the travel powers that have a high speed while in combat (acrobatics, superspeed, teleport, jump) you can start to flee from the orange bubble after you have blocked the blue stun bubble.
With flight you will not be able to do that, so when you are near a player that is being targeted by the stun bubble start moving away from him before the stun hits (careful to block the stun if you can not get out of reach fast enough).
When you have flight and you are targeted by the stun bubble yourself, hold block and start moving away from grav and the other players (fly up is a good choice) then when the stun hits, release block while you keep moving in the same direction. The will make you avoid the orange bubble even though visually it can seem to be to close for comfort.
Yeah, don't queue for Gravitard.
Well, at least with a PUG. Gogo premades with smoke grenade, Skarns and 13K HP supertanks!
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Smoke Grenade and Skarn's Bane no longer work on her.
Ah, good to know. Or maybe not. Like I said, I don't queue for that broken piece of trash content. Nice to see they made an already really one dimensional fight even more one dimensional, Supertanks FTW I guess. More reason to just outright avoid what little content we've been given recently is not a good thing.
Gravitar is now like, Tank and Spank 2: Tank Harder. I'd stop being lazy and finally get Vermilion to 40 (a character who could probably *solo* Gravitar, with enough time), but honestly the fight isn't really fun or interesting. I had more fun doing bugged **** Whiteout with my two lowbie friends from CoX than any of this new content they've released lately, barring maybe Warlord.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
If I could target a fallen teammate I could find them amongst the destruction a bit better.
Here's a good piece of advice -- BUY A TRIUMPHANT RECOVERY!
Yellow bubbles do less damage at the edge than the center, move to the edge WHILE BLOCKING. Blue does more at the edge than the center, so....
If you are targeted by blue DON'T MOVE!!! Just block. Especially at the third bar. Remember how much damage the blue edges do? Not to mention the holds. I think I have had my tanks killed by Grav at least five times just because someone panics and runs into my tank with a blue bubble on them = held tank = always targeted immediately after with a yellow bubble.
Glass Cannons advice: if you can fight at 100ft - fight at max distance while flying high. A force cascade or geyser should knock you out of range of a second and definitely third attack. Move away - heal, come back. Less rezzing for healers. But by third bar she gets meaner and this doesn't help as much...
After rez, move out of range ASAP! TP out, then turn your form back on, heal, reenergize, etc. before running back into the fight. Teleport is very nice for this.
And xaogarrent - just STHU! Gravitar is fine and challenging piece of content for many here and no one asked for your totally useless input on this thread. Thank you. P.S. You have no clue how to solo Grav.
Gravitar will always throw a hold bubble before she throws a yellow bubble. If she's below 1/3 and you see a hold bubble pop up, start moving (or if you're the target of the hold block and immediately start moving once it goes away). If you start moving early you can escape a yellow bubble with basic movement speed.
I think her force cascades are single target. I've been in the middle of several without getting hit. Of course, the person next to me may go flying... The reason ppl spread out are to avoid being hit by a bubble targeted on someone else.
BTW if no one gets held by her hold bubble, she will usually skip the yellow bubble and keep trying with blue bubbles until someone is held. This is why the good tanks hate having noobs too close, the noob gets held and then we all have to evade the incoming yellow bubble.
On yellow bubbles, if you can't survive blocking it then move as kaizerin says. But if you can, it's safer to block (if you can heal back up). Lag is the enemy here- -- you never can be sure if you really got away and getting hit by any part of yellow while NOT blocking is pretty fatal even for tanks.
Oh and the longer you are holding block seems to equal less damage too.
I know her cascade is still AE, not single target. I've been slammed by it because someone was behind me off to the side, and watched the cascade zero in on them.
Again, it's easy to predict a yellow bubble. They always follow the hold bubble n her last third of health.
Most of her attacks follow a fairly straight forward pattern actually. It all seems random but it's less random than believed.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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100% Agree. They made smoke not work I think because it wasn't working as intended. So instead of making it work correctly, they simply remove it from the fight. So easy and lazy and cheap on their end. It's frustrating really. No content, lazy or incompetent coding, Nemisis' are still bugged with impossible healing, and now they make peoples powers usless on just this one enemy. Very frustrating. Why would someone play such a broken game? Feel sorry for anyone starting this game new now. It used to be much better. I sure hope these guys fix this game.
In short, just like every other ounce of content, it's easymode or nothing. :rolleyes:
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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IMO, the Gravitar scenario shows how Cryptic NEVER in the entire life of this game ever took rezzes into proper consideration, and simply shoehorned their need into this one fight as an afterthought to make them seem useful. They need to entirely re-think how rezzes work in this game:
*I've been one-shotted by Grav because of this one right after being ressed about a dozen times
**they should take Dr.Sage's suggestion of adding a rezz element to maintained and charged heals and simply get rid of rez powers
On topic, nice tips--especially the one about not spamming useless "Help me, Im down" messages when everyone else is busy with the actual fight. Also, I appologize to anyone I may pug with in this fight for not taking a rez on my DPS/Healing toon, but I REFUSE to take those powers--or even less, give Cryptic money for consumables for adding a mechanic that forces the need of an otherwise useless power for just one fight. And I also thank all of those that have made that sacrifice and rezzed me in the past, but I wont take those powers cuz of the principle of the thing: they were never needed till that fight, dying has always been otherwise meaningless in this game and their mechanics for use SUCK.
Exactly. I'm glad for the change since without Skarn or Smoke I started working on ranged role toons who can survive Grav and looked at builds I wouldn't have before.
Another way of looking at is people will just start taking builds with survivability in mind. You might as well add a timer to Gravitar so people will have to balance between damage and survivability as opposed to the majority of people with access to freeforms just taking powers designed to make the fight more predictable. Because essentially that's just what's happening. Right now I'm leveling a character whose only purpose is to let me solo Gravitar if the rest of the team dies. Well, with how lazy I am it's probably going to be months before I get it to that level and Gravitar would have been renerfed or a new Rampage will be out.
Now that I think of it, a timer would actually be nice. There's probably going to be cries of artificial difficulty but random attacks that can juggle you to death would also fall under there.
Not really.
There is a difference between not wanting any challenge and not wanting the archetypes we like to play to become useless for the content. There is also a difference between difficulty and difficulty both unfair and lazy. No gamer will say DMC3 in Dante Must Die mode is not beyond hard, yet it is fair in its difficulty: You can't afford any mistakes, yet all of your tools and techniques still work as advertised, and this goes even further in Heaven and Hell mode.
Gravitar is a pretty straightforward example of unfair difficulty and lazy design: Instead of getting creative with the game's mechanics or adding new mechanics they make her immune to a bunch of stuff and call it a day.
Call it elitism all you want, but considering people since launch have constantly had the difficulty and challenge nerfed in this game, I am not surprised.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
The difficulty is both unfair and lazy as two skills are being nullified for the battle, and as such the difficulty does not come from the design of the battle itself but from arbitrarily taking away the skills the player has. As a point of reference I have never said anything about Sigils being useless in the battle, for example, as that is the natural consequence of how the battle flows.
On your other points her cascades are not broadcast straight at you, and I have also seen many cases of people being killed by a yellow bubble they were already outside of. In which way are those related to people not even trying, or not moving out of the way?
I have nothing against challenge, just against lazy design.
I mostly agree.
But it is possible to escape the yellow bubbles most of the times. Unless it is one of the rare ones that are not preceded by a stun bubble in the same location.
Arguing about her difficulty is a decent way to see how people are using powers to make fights more manageable like taking Protection Field and Conviction for an about 2k cushion for 20 seconds even if you have low health/presence.
There's currently not much else to discuss regarding the fight at the moment.
This works and for most players is mandatory when she's hitting you with Force Geyser snaps, Force Cascade taps, and the Containment Field hold bubbles, but NEVER block the yellow/orange bubbles! Run away from those if possible!
In general, if you can move out of range of her force detonation bubble's radius, then DO SO!!!
I'm sick and tired of seeing noobs (people who think they know it all, but are actually inexperience, arrogant, and idiotic) complain about dying to her force detonation blasts. Even worse these are the same people who then come on the forums and say dodge/avoidance is too weak, which is a load of BS (i.e.: lucyinspacewithdiamonds ).
People, you aren't meant to just sit there an get owned by those instant-death bubbles, you've got feet, use them! And if you can't get away in time, that's what your teammates are for! Ask a healer to resurrect you.
Also, make sure if you're a tank you're taking the heat off of the healer when they go to resurrect the fallen. Tanking is harder than it looks for several reasons. (click) I've added the solutions that would really help tanking in this game out to my signature, take a look!
Additionally keep in mind: [url=
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=160821]not all people in support role are healers![/url]
And finally, do NOT spam the "call for help button", please! You have to try not to die, if you go down the healers will try to get to you, don't act like you're obligated to be resurrected. You're not that important, really.
@ polishlightning , I strongly recommend you add these links to your opening post. Your information is rather incomplete at present and these other topics are ones people need to be reading and understanding before going into a top-tier battle like Gravitar and getting unnecessarily frustrated.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I'd like to stay away from talking about taking specific powers like protection field and conviction, those may not be options for AT, so this thread is more of a what can I do to survive with my current powers. In most cases you may need alternate gear to make your toon more survivable, that may mean shunning your SS to load up on Con and dodge/avoidance.
I'm not saying all groups will be able to do this mission, if someone in your group doesn't have a rez, you're probably screwed. This mission is very tank and healer reliant, but that doesn't mean DPS isn't important because Grav ramps up her attacks and the longer it lasts the more likely it is she'll take your whole team out.
1. (@ you) Um... It's kind of your fault for putting this topic in the wrong section of the forums, no offense. If you had actually browsed or used search you would have seen this topic has in fact already been done, although you did a much better job with the opening post than the previous topic: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=149043 Also that other topic was prior to the "forum-ocalypse". General Gameplay or Missions & Combat are better subforums for this kind of topic, IMHO.
2. (@ the rest of y'all) That said, it would be nice if people would get back on topic, out of respect to the opening poster. If the rest of you all had used search or browsed around you would have seen this topic which is a discussion specifically on the difficulty of the alert (in fact I know many of you posting here have already seen it): http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=151361
Leaving out the flaming part of the post, I agree with this. It's the cheap shortcut way to create difficulty. I'd also ask you to change "fake" to "cheap shortcut" as fake isn't true either. The difficulty is most certainly real (it'll definitely kill your character), it's just a lame way of doing it.
I also agree with this sarcastic point. Don't just stand there and get owned by something you know is going to kill you.
Also, make some friends with dedicated healers or people who have resurrection. Friends are good! Gravitar isn't mean to be a FFA solo-ing festival FFS!
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Certain builds have enough mitigation to handle the yellow bubble of doom, tho dodge/md is generally a factor
Dodge/avoid is the best mitigation possible being that it doesn't get reduced or debuffed, but LR itself for example is still lacking, particularly if you aren't hitting 80%+ dodge from skills buffing dodge.
Force det kills mostly through latency. While it's rarely killed me, there have been times I was out of the bubble or had been blocking but the delay ended up getting me killed. For the most part it's easy to block if you actually know how to - I think most of the deaths I'd witness were people clearly in the blue bubble about to go boom, but never made an effort to block at all.
Tanking isn't the same in Grav. The reason she kills so many to begin with is the sheer fact that she targets players aside from whoever's actually holding threat. Granted, if a tank is still alive and kicking, it does help if they pull Grav away from the fallen, albeit not much. With her insanely long range, one must be prepared to be destroyed the instant said person is rezzed.
While not so much the case anymore in the new dynamic, you probably should clear up that you're not even guaranteed to have a healer, or a rezzer. Even if you do, its all to common for them to be wrecked by the random cascades.
I know, as soon as I posted it I thought it may have gone better in the missions section, but by then it was to late.
The fake difficulty thing is just a gaming term, and I meant no offense by using it. I always see it used for difficulty that does not come from the game mechanics themselves but from gimping the player characters or making abilities useless for no good reason: The difficulty of a boss that has an instakill move that requires you to pay attention to the tells and have mastered the dodging mechanics would not be "fake," while the difficulty a boss that has an instakill move with no tells or a boss whose instakill move has a tell but during whose fight the dodging mechanics you have been using for the entire game are turn off would be so (which is a random example, unrelated to Gravitar herself). I am sorry for any misunderstanding because of that.
Currently most of the difficulty seems to come from turning off skills and, in the case of getting killed by bubbles you are outside of, from not planning for the latency problems that come with the territory, so I did pick that term. I'll edit it to "unfair" to keep from further misunderstandings.
And I am sorry about the flaming, I just got ticked off because of the random elitism. I'll edit that part out too.
It's the issue that the fight doesn't seem balanced with some builds in mind (ATs in particular) is why so many people are complaining. Aside from every advice already given in this thread, there's not much else an AT can do to survive this but hope that someone in the group can cover for your weaknesses. You're going to die alot to cascades as a squishy, you can't really do anything about it.
Also without a timer or any kind of enrage mechanic DPS is really a non-issue for this fight. In fact the only fight in the game that DPS is probably even an issue is AoQephoth in a Smash. I can outdamage his heal solo but a group that's built for survivability may have problems beating him within the time given.
This isn't the only alert that is unbalanced and people complain about. Look at all the hate for the 2 minute Smash Alerts, it has somewhat died down now, but when they came out there was a steady stream of hate that low levels should be gated, where it wasn't neccesarily low levels it was the fact that there wasn't enough DPS being put out on the boss. A single high end DPS could make the difference in the whole match.
The biggest difference here is that people are dying a lot for an extended period of time where in the Smash Alerts they could die and come back immediately and it lasted a total of 2 minutes.
There's a big difference. Smashes are geared towards players as low as level 6 to people as high as 40. The complaints about smashes have primarily been related to them not being considerate of the massive level gap. A level 6 may get some nice scaled damage, but will almost always be entirely reliant on the EB for them to have a minimal impact. That and there were all the leechers and folks re-rolling level 6s to do the daily over again.
Grav is geared toward higher levels of what should be experienced players. She's always been unfriendly to any non-def passive melee. Flying snipers were able to make use of snipe and the 120 ft range - so that was nerfed. Smoke grenade and skarn's allowed a plethora of builds to mitigate the random cascades. That was nerfed. When players find something effective and use brains instead of brawn to be successful, they get nerfed. Unless you're running a def-passive with self-healing or a support with self-healing, you're going to spend a lot of time faceplanted. Punishing players for simply building outside of that specific window doesn't make for a challenging experience, just an irritating one.
Smoke grenades weren't nerfed because they allowed people to use their smarts over their brawn, they were nerfed because they gave a guaranteed 100% damage mitigation as whilst smoke grenade was active she'd just stand there and take a pummelling.
Now no offense but this would pretty much be the equivilant of an end game boss in a Final Fantasy game not being immune to Death (several bugs in FFVI not withstanding).
In no other MMO is an end game raid boss (what grav is supposed to be equivalent too) that through the use of a single power gives 100% damage mitigation, and I'm sorry if you don't feel this way but the same should go for Gravitar
Also, just a small update, I ran the mission last night with my Tempest. For thos who don't know this AT, it's the Electricity based AT.
Pros:
Great Power Management
Good DPS
Cons:
No self heal
Ranged Damage Role
I bought some alt gear and equipped it with Rank 4 and 5 Constitution mods, got my Dodge at 38% and my avoidance just under 60%, my HP was over 10k.
Out of the 2 matches I ran, both were victories. I died once because I couldn't get out of the yellow bubble, I was targeted most of the match because of the damage I was putting out. Got rezzed right away, and continued in the fight.
I don't want anyone to think this is the typical experience. Obviously the team rezzing fallen teammates is important and without people healing and rezzing this mission can fail rather quickly. But playing a glass cannon is possible.
That's an assumption - do you know how many grav's I carried while using smoke because teammates still got killed? More than I care to remember, that's how I found out it took my old pvp setup about 33 minutes to kill her from start to finish.
It worked as one would expect, debuffing her perception, meaning people who got into perception range were still in quite a bit of danger. It was kinda sad to see, people getting blasted over and over when you'd think it be pretty obvious that people would understand how it worked. But even your post, just like a number of others assumed smoke = she just stands there.
Now I could make a supertank like kai or silverspar and focus on mitigation and healing, but that's not fun for me, it just feels like too little damage.
But I'm guessing as the q times get lengthier and people enjoy failing in pursuit of that whopping 1500 q it will all be worth it as instead of improving AI behavior we reinforce that we want utility powers nerfed to the point of never having a reason to use them. Skarn's bane suffered the same fate, how often does one actually get to utilize the debuff - oh wait, it's serving a purpose *swings nerfbat*.
Everyone I've ever seen complain its too easy has been on a self-sufficient, self-healing tank. It's as if they got mad that that lil AT soldier wasn't dying every few minutes or whoever else was shielded from random cascading. Unless there's not a single melee about, she'd going to still be going through the motions, regardless of smoke.
The biggest benefit smoke and skarns brought to the table was allowing pugs to actually be successful as pugs. You know, solo q with whoever, never knowing if its a team full of healers or nothing but glass cannons or melee or generally bad players....
I don't personally see the point of having to pre-made just to do Grav now, tho all the healers I trust save for one have moved on to GW2 or other greener pastures. Grav tends to remind me of leechers, bad players, and just plain irritation knowing that the guys/girls who spent the majority of the fight faceplanted are still being rewarded with costume drops whereas the folks who managed to stay upright almost if not for the entire battle rarely get anything.
But think about it tho, do you really want the solution to be hit it with a nerf hammer any time players use a power for its intended purpose successfully? Skarn's and SG are debuffing powers, yet how often do you actually have a target worth using it on that it actually works on? We already have sooo many underperforming powers as is.
Granted, if Grav wasn't an alert, and part of a lair - I'd probably be far less concerned. But really, it feels like watching the death of pvp over again. Take away people's motivation to queue, and the q times will be reflective of that. I'd see Grav have an unknown once in a blue moon before the latest nerf. Now it's basically nightly after certain people stop running it.
To get that much health, you're looking at 300+ CON. The fact that you were still being targeted after losing that much from your Super Stats heavily suggests that people are moving towards self-nerfing their damage for more survivability. You're essentially no longer a glass cannon with stats like that partly because you're at tank levels of health, and partly because you seemed to have sacrificed a sizable chunk of damage for that survivability. But kudos on surviving.
I agree that Smoke Grenade shouldn't have worked that effectively for the fight, or any fight for that matter. The big difference now is that instead of one person needing Smoke Grenade, everyone just brings more CON instead.
Gravitar was designed to be an endgame boss in a game that includes Skarn's Bane and Smoke Grenade as valid, and in some cases forced, character options. The problem lies not with the skills but with Gravitar not being designed while taking them into account.
Last time I did check she was perfectly able to walk. Why is she not moving out of the Smoke Grenade's area of effect?
Skarn's Bane requires a bit of setup and the user is rooted in place for the duration. Why is she not using bubbles to try and imprison the Skarn's Bane users, or to keep them blocking and relocating?
Are her skills and programing not enough to deal with valid character builds? Then change her skills, or add more, or code her a better behaviour and set of patterns.
You are attacking the players who are playing the game as the game was designed instead of the developers who are too lazy or half-assed to actually take into account the game they are developing for and put some effort into it.
The whole point of this thread was what can players do to make themselves more survivable, and taking specific powers isn't an option for some, but getting extra gear is something everyone can do.
No worries, I'm human too.
Um, those builds are freakish, honestly; and I mean that in a good way by the way!
They are definitely not the norm however, or even most of the top-tier. In other words, those builds are highly specialized to survive that and have some of the best gear to give them the edge the need to do so.
(I think Wes is an example yes? Or maybe Jewel Blueberry?)
One of the best mitigations, yes.
Also it can get reduced or debuffed, so that's incorrect. And I'm not just talking about the Despondency advantage. In fact I know a way you can cancel it out completely: knock the target into the air. (one of the good checks & balances in the game) I used to kill so-called "unkillable dodge-tanks" in Zombie Apocalypse alert like this all the time, and wow would they get pissed. Even got accused of hacking once
I would have thought a well-experienced PvP player such as yourself would have already known this... :eek:
Either the latency or that they don't use their block from lack of trying, yes I would agree with you those are major reasons for the deaths from her force detonation blasts.
Agreed. Also, she HATES people casting resurrection. I've actually had her chase me across the battlefield just to force cascade me while I'm resurrecting the fallen, completely ignoring the tank in her face.
That said, I've also seen people successfully tank her, and I've been watching their techniques used.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I have Rez on my tank and have started casting it in her face just so she'll hit me with her force cascade and force geyser.
Human ingenuity > computer AI
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
In the current dynamic, a knock up is either rare or of such a short duration it's not applicable unless they didn't have md up to begin with. There's only one or two people who deal enough damage fast enough to kill my char after a knock up, and that's only because I'm not running md before the fg proc throws me in the air.
Most pvp setups are well aware of the dangers of low knock rez, and load up on str accordingly.
In all my pvp I've never noted knocks to ignore dodge - back then we didn't have md running with less than a 40s cd. Of course, a knock can prevent md from going up during the animation process.
It is crafty - its a perception debuff that actually "worked" to debuff perception.
There was a synergy - if you didn't build for long range, smoke provided little benefit to you as an individual.
Running a def passive and self healing is no more creative and requires more powers.
Was farther than 50 feet most of the time - why do you think infernos got killed more often than anyone - oh wait, you think infernos are fine with some casual healing, so you wouldn't notice.
It's stupid that everyone can self heal - where do you think the lack of challenge in this game comes from?
Take away self-healing, experience the game like most ATs. Then you'll see just how trivializing the self-healing is over ANYTHING ELSE.
Being upset that smoke grenade allows players to be effective that normally wouldn't because you want to feel your def passive, ads, and self-healing is serving a purpose is elitist and ignorant of the limitations of so many of your fellow players. You think having newcomers first experience of an "elite" boss who can hit for over 80k and cast a cascade up to 3 times in unison to any target at random will improve customer retention? Have you noticed the q times go up? Have you noticed people learning to avoid her altogether?
If your self-healing was nerfed, you'd complain, if you're def passive was nerfed, you'd complain. But if a power proves effective for others that you don't use, hit it with a nerf-bat. If you were running melee during a smoked out Grav fight before the change, she wouldn't ignore you, you'd still get your "challenge".
I've watched both Kai and Silverspar die solo tanking, but that was early on before many of us had the hours of experience fighting her. I'd assume these days Grav's become routine, since so many of us have done hundreds since her release. Even my soldier had failed once. Oh wait, the difference being my soldier had less than 6k hp, no self healing, and her original flying sniper technique was completely nullified by increasing her range. If I mis-timed smoke on her even once, she was almost guaranteed to kill the soldier unless she dodged.
The last time I salvaged a grav, (and I have done it often) there were 3-4 people using smoke. They all died. It was never as simple as staying at 50 feet, because for one she could typically see at 50 ft when smoked and two if people didn't react to her moving out of smoke clouds they'd get killed. The last grav I was in was salvaged by a self-healing tank with rez. Most of the fight was him/her blocking while trying to rez folks. Usually the recently rezzed would get killed by Grav right as they got up.
This isn't about challenge so much as allowing a select few to feel superior as they aren't constantly faceplanted like the rest of their teammates. When I wanted to show off, I just ran my Char around in her grav outfit, I didn't cry for a nerf to make me stand out. I've carried more Grav's than I can remember - it's a far more enjoyable experience when your teammates are upright.
In the end, it doesn't really matter for me, I've got her outfit, and I get q through far easier means. But I do feel for the newer players and ATs in pursuit of that Haute Couture or Necklace. It literally took me hundreds of runs to get my couture, and that's when they were all successful. Having to deal with longer q times and a lot more failures, I'm definitely feelin for em.